273 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

They didn't "screw up" atleast not that way.  ME3's endings were meant to be wildly divergent because they didn't have an inkling they'd be making another Mass Effect game at the time.  A coherent sequel story not being possible in the Milky Way isn't a strike against the developer given that.

He didn't have an inkling Bioware would want to make a sequel to their wildly popular and best selling series? Sorry, I don't buy that, completely out of touch with reality if that was the case.

 

However I don't believe a coherent sequel set in the milky way is impossible. Quite the opposite in fact, I can't wait.

[Mcfly616]

Wrong. Players who chose to keep the Collector Base in ME2 and have low EMS only get Control.

 well, there is a low/mid ems Control. But the lowest possible ems ending is Destroy. The Normandy airlock begins to open and it cuts to the next scene. Earth is scorched. The relays go nuclear. Hackett gives a completely different speech. His ship is drifting alone in space. 

[wolfhowwl]

The endings were such a big deal they were making mainstream news.  It is a shadow hanging over the franchise.  Believe me, "What about the endings?" is going to be at the forefront of people's minds once MENext gets a real announcement.
 
Saying "Nothing is canon except the stuff we want to be"  is not a good foundation to rebuild player trust.  If it's too cumbersome to accommodate the choices (as I believe it is)  better to clear everything and start over.
 
 After all, isn't that "more important than coddling the feelings of any fans that would actually not buy the game because their genocide wasn't carried forward"?    Keeping in mind that the Red ending, by far the most popular, does involve unavoidable genocide.

 

Players spent three games defeating the reapers, resolving the Rannoch conflict, and deciding the fate of the Krogan.

 

Choosing canon outcomes for those scenarios will alienate some people. But a sequel still acknowledges that those conflicts were resolved in the setting even as it focuses a new story.

 

Do you think a reboot that comes in and says that those events you spent three games experiencing never happened and resets the Geth and Genophage back to Step 1 won't also alienate people? What about the Reapers, will people not remember the truth behind the Citadel and Mass Relays?

[dreamgazer]

The endings were such a big deal they were making mainstream news.

 

So were the sex scenes in ME1.

[shepskisaac]

So were the sex scenes in ME1.

Not really, someone on Fox was just fishing for headlines thinking games are still just "kids stuff" and no one would call them out on blatant lying, rest of the media just reported on Fox' idiocy.

[GalacticWolf5]

But the lowest possible ems ending is Destroy. The Normandy airlock begins to open and it cuts to the next scene. Earth is scorched. The relays go nuclear. Hackett gives a completely different speech. His ship is drifting alone in space. 

 

• If EMS is between 0-1749, only one option will be available depending on the player's choice at the end of Mass Effect 2: Control, if Shepard saved the Collector Base, and Destroy if Shepard did not. Both will result in massive physical damage to Earth, with Destroy killing almost everyone on Earth.
• If EMS is between 1750-2349, both Destroy or Control options are available, but either choice will cause some substantial damage to the galaxy.
• If EMS is between 2350-2649, the Control option will cause no physical damage but the Destroy option will still cause widespread damage.
• If EMS is 2650+ the Destroy and Control options will no longer cause any physical harm to the galaxy.
• If EMS is 2800+ the Synthesis ending becomes available.
• If EMS is 3100+ and the Destroy option is chosen, Shepard is seen barely alive, gasping for breath (if Anderson is shot by the Illusive Man, the player needs a higher EMS to see this short scene).

[KaiserShep]

Canonizing anything will cause a fecal storm to rival that of the ending controversy.  Ever since ME2, Bioware has always toed the line of "there is no canon".  To go back on that would, imo, be worse than Ark Theory.

 

It seems to me that doing anything is going to cause a fecal storm 'round these parts. The alternative is to have some middle chapter that runs parallel to the ME trilogy's story, or a prequel, either of which will get a lot of complaints because the trilogy's troubled ending will be looming over it (doesn't matter what this protagonist does! S/he's gonna die in the reaper war! or something something) .

[themikefest]

The only difference between low ems control and high ems control is the time it will take to rebuild

 

Low ems destroy, below 1750, Earth is scorched and will take a very, very long time to rebuild. The difference between 1750 or higher and high ems destroy is the time it will take to rebuild

 

If ems is at 2900 or higher and Anderson is "saved" and destroy is picked, Shepard lives

 

If ems is below 3200 and TIM kills Anderson and destroy is picked, Shepard is dead

 

Anderson gives 200 war assets if saved and he takes away 100 war assets if killed by TIM

[Mcfly616]

 

• If EMS is between 0-1749, only one option will be available depending on the player's choice at the end of Mass Effect 2: Control, if Shepard saved the Collector Base, and Destroy if Shepard did not. Both will result in massive physical damage to Earth, with Destroy killing almost everyone on Earth.
• If EMS is between 1750-2349, both Destroy or Control options are available, but either choice will cause some substantial damage to the galaxy.
• If EMS is between 2350-2649, the Control option will cause no physical damage but the Destroy option will still cause widespread damage.
• If EMS is 2650+ the Destroy and Control options will no longer cause any physical harm to the galaxy.
• If EMS is 2800+ the Synthesis ending becomes available.
• If EMS is 3100+ and the Destroy option is chosen, Shepard is seen barely alive, gasping for breath (if Anderson is shot by the Illusive Man, the player needs a higher EMS to see this short scene).

 

 Check it out for yourself. Control has paragon/renegade high and mid ems endings (below 1749 is nearly identical to 1750-2349. And anything above 2350 is all the same as an ems over 3100). The Destroy ending has low, mid, and high. 

 

Destroy essentially has 3 ending tiers. While Control has 2 tiers with 2 variations each.

[Vazgen]

Looking at the conceptual prototype. Doesn't look like Milky Way to me.

Spoiler

Spoiler

[GalacticWolf5]

 Check it out for yourself. Control has paragon/renegade high and mid ems endings The Destroy ending has low, mid, and high. 

 

Destroy essentially has 3 ending tiers. While Control has 2 tiers with 2 variations each.

 

What I was saying was that some people are forced to pick Control, others are forced to pick Destroy.

 

Save Collector Base -> 0-1790 EMS -> Only Control is possible

 

Destroy Collector Base -> 0-1790 EMS -> Only Destroy is possible.

[Iakus]

What they do will make people upset regardless so it's better to get it over and done with, making one or two choices canon that results in a good story is a fair compromise and they'll have to do something about the endings eventually.

And wiping the slate clean while making a good story would be so terrible?

[Iakus]

Players spent three games defeating the reapers, resolving the Rannoch conflict, and deciding the fate of the Krogan.

 

Choosing canon outcomes for those scenarios will alienate some people. But a sequel still acknowledges that those conflicts were resolved in the setting even as it focuses a new story.

 

Do you think a reboot that comes in and says that those events you spent three games experiencing never happened and resets the Geth and Genophage back to Step 1 won't also alienate people? What about the Reapers, will people not remember the truth behind the Citadel and Mass Relays?

No, the events happened.  In the trilogy.  But MENExt is a new story, with new characters and new events.  THey just take place in the Mass Effect setting.

 

Just like the events of Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights do not impact on each other.  But take place in the same setting.

[Mcfly616]

What I was saying was that some people are forced to pick Control, others are forced to pick Destroy.

 

Save Collector Base -> 0-1790 EMS -> Only Control is possible

 

Destroy Collector Base -> 0-1790 EMS -> Only Destroy is possible.

 What I was saying was regarding the Control endings, being below 1749 is nearly identical to 1750-2349. And anything above 2350 is exactly the same as an ems over 3100. 

 

Destroy has 3 different levels of success. While Control has 2.

[Lee T]

And this is the only issue with going this route. Fans not allowing themselves to let go of the ME3 endings. It's their own problem. Not an obstacle to the games development.

I call shenanigans ! :-) it exactly is an obstacle to game development, not because it's hated, but because of how drastically different the three outcomes are.

Even if they had manage to do this ending in a way that would have made the haters regret the departure of Hudson, they would still have a hard time doing a sequel without choosing a canon ending among the three.

I really didn't like the ending, for a variety of reasons, but even then I do not mind them doing a sequel. If anything I'm curious to see how they'll shuffle through the minefield they created with what seems such a definite ending.

The very bland Inquisitor in DAI is probably the direct legacy of this experiment. As long as worldstates are supposed to be imported, you can't shake the fundamentals of your world as much as the ending of ME3 did.

Depending on the degree of freedom he has, I wouldn't want to be in the lead writer's shoes right now (and contrary to the Terminator guys, simply copy-pasting JJ Abrams' Trek reboot won't cut it).

[Drone223]

And wiping the slate clean while making a good story would be so terrible?

Because the geneophage and geth arc's will have to be resolved a 2^nd time which is something I doubt many people would want to do, there is also the fact it'll be a vastly different lore since it'll have to explain what created the citadel and the relay's and what caused the protheans to go extinct. Bioware would have to re-write the entire lore from scratch to account for the changes which is something Bioware are probably not willing to do.

[Mcfly616]

I call shenanigans ! :-) it exactly is an obstacle to game development, not because it's hated, but because of how drastically different the three outcomes are.

 Maybe you might have missed the context of that quote. As I was speaking in terms of a game taking place some time before ME3 (before the Reapers ever invade)

 

 

 

So no, the endings wouldn't matter regarding the games development. They would only be an obstacle for people that can't let go and say things like "it'll be like a dark cloud over any story they try to tell."

[DanishGambit]

Players spent three games defeating the reapers, resolving the Rannoch conflict, and deciding the fate of the Krogan.

 

Choosing canon outcomes for those scenarios will alienate some people. But a sequel still acknowledges that those conflicts were resolved in the setting even as it focuses a new story.

 

Do you think a reboot that comes in and says that those events you spent three games experiencing never happened and resets the Geth and Genophage back to Step 1 won't also alienate people? What about the Reapers, will people not remember the truth behind the Citadel and Mass Relays?

They don't have to reboot it. They can simply make the new setting "a galaxy far far away" and never mention the other story.

[StealthGamer92]

They don't have to reboot it. They can simply make the new setting "a galaxy far far away" and never mention the other story.

Cue rolling text with mass relay in the background. This may work, seriously.(minus the rolling text) Just not Ark, maybe a ship was in the middle of useing a relay right when it was supercharged causeing it to slingshot the poor guys to a new galaxy with mass relays. So we start trying to find out why relays are here and where here is.

[Heimdall]

He didn't have an inkling Bioware would want to make a sequel to their wildly popular and best selling series? Sorry, I don't buy that, completely out of touch with reality if that was the case.
 
However I don't believe a coherent sequel set in the milky way is impossible. Quite the opposite in fact, I can't wait.

No they thought the end of the trilogy would be the end of the trilogy. This clearly came as a surprise to them, certainly they wouldn't have known until ME3 was nearing the end of its development. Mass Effect had been planned as a trilogy and they hadn't considered that they would have to make more, hence the wild divergence of ME3.  They had no idea where to go with it, that's why we had Casey coming out asking for feedback on where to take the series: prequel or sequel, etc.

 

Nothing points to them having any real idea this would happen while ME3 was being designed and developed.  Not every successful game receives sequels ad infinatum.

[Iakus]

Because the geneophage and geth arc's will have to be resolved a 2^nd time which is something I doubt many people would want to do, there is also the fact it'll be a vastly different lore since it'll have to explain what created the citadel and the relay's and what caused the protheans to go extinct. Bioware would have to re-write the entire lore from scratch to account for the changes which is something Bioware are probably not willing to do.

Why do they have to be resolved?  THe story doesn't necessarily have to focus on those storylines.  It's a big galaxy, lots of places to go and stuff to do.

[Drone223]

Why do they have to be resolved?  THe story doesn't necessarily have to focus on those storylines.  It's a big galaxy, lots of places to go and stuff to do.

Those plots had played a significant role in the lore and the plot it's something that can't be ignored they'll have to be revisited eventually.

[Iakus]

Those plots had played a significant role in the lore and the plot it's something that can't be ignored they'll have to be revisited eventually.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe they won't be revisited for many years.  Maybe the genophage will be the focus of an entire game in itself.  Maybe it will simply be there, like sleeping Old Gods, part of the lore, but not really the focus of anything, because there are newer, more interesting stories to tell.

[Drone223]

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they won't be revisited for many years. Maybe the genophage will be the focus of an entire game in itself. Maybe it will simply be there, like sleeping Old Gods, part of the lore, but not really the focus of anything, because there are newer, more interesting stories to tell.

Well the thing is they have already been resolved it's just unnessary to resolve them again and I don't see Bioware wanting to go the AU route since it involves rewriting entire plots and lore. Bioware already has the lore set out from the trilogy they should go froward from their since it saves a lot of time.

[Heimdall]

Why do they have to be resolved?  THe story doesn't necessarily have to focus on those storylines.  It's a big galaxy, lots of places to go and stuff to do.

Yeah, but coming back to a galaxy where those issues remain unresolved, after some reasonably satisfying resolution in ME3, remains problematic, unless they make some radical changes to those species' status.

 

Personally I'd rather see a new space opera IP than a Mass Effect Reboot, it would almost have to be with all the changes they would have to make to keep it fresh and avoid retreading old ground.