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[Eliastion]

Deneirim was likely the main prize as being holy city, it was already a sizable city built around a impressive fortress having started as a Tevinter outpost and then between becoming the capital and being a holy city gathered a sizable amount of prestige and wealth. Controlling Deneirim mean Orlais controlled all both the religious capital and the faith's holiest city.

That still doesn't really generate revenue, regardless of how nice it is for your ego with your center-of-the-world andrastian-orlesian mindset. Getting the Ferelden in the first place was likely a mistake, going back there is just plain stupid. Ferelden won't submit easily and it simply doesn't have riches you could exploit. What it has is terrain that makes your greatest military advantage (amazing cavalry) less effective, stubbornness as national virtue, tradition of central government listening to nobility which in turn is expected to represent the freemen they depend on (since there is no feudal peasantry in Ferelden). Oh, and then there apparently already exists actual nationalism, the Fereldan commoners seem to identify themselves as people of Ferelden first and only then a people ruled by this or that king (and have I already mentioned that the king is seen as someone who leads the country rather than somebody who more or less owns it).

Basically, the whole Ferelden seems built almost with the explicit intention to be extremely ungrateful thing to conquer. In "proper" monarchy you would need to appoint a puppet king and pacify the most powerful of the nobility, in Ferelden you need to pretty much re-build the whole social order from scratch.

[The Hierophant]

There are probably a lot of mage-knights in DA Rome. Hooray for mage-knights!

"There are no borders for the mage who wields a spectral blade. There is respect, and there is fear.”

Seriously though, who need a Chevalier spec when you have that?

Meh. I'd prefer using a simple blanket to destroy elite warriors with.

[Master Warder Z_]

I wouldn't count on turning Denerim into a global entrepôt anytime soon.

I'm thinking more a taxable highway to Orlais personally.

[Xilizhra]

Inquisition was Orlais' moment in the sun. Next game looks to be heading north. Finally; the south was getting boring.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm thinking more a taxable highway to Orlais personally.

With these guys as the toll keepers.

Spoiler

[Aimi]

Deneirim was likely the main prize as being holy city, it was already a sizable city built around a impressive fortress having started as a Tevinter outpost and then between becoming the capital and being a holy city gathered a sizable amount of prestige and wealth. Controlling Deneirim mean Orlais controlled all both the religious capital and the faith's holiest city.

 
Yeah, in theory. In practice, we don't see much emphasis on Denerim-as-holy city. There aren't a whole lot of pilgrims in evidence in Origins, nor is the destination - a fairly vanilla urban chantry in the market - a particular magnet for the faithful. It's not like the kings of Ferelden are sitting on Jerusalem; they're probably not even sitting on Santiago de Compostela. I'd guess that insofar as Andrastian pilgrimage goes, most of it is directed toward local holy sites (involved in the relic hunt, as Sister Justine implies in Origins, each little chantry having its own collection of oddities) and to Val Royeaux as center of the faith. But pilgrimages don't seem to be nearly so big a part of Andrastianism in the Dragon Age as they were a part of medieval Western Christianity.
 

I'm thinking more a taxable highway to Orlais personally.

lol @ land-based trade

[The Baconer]

 lol @ land-based trade

 

Yeah, well.

 

Somehow Tevinter is somehow still one of the richest nations in Thedas, so there.

[Eliastion]

Considering Ferelden as important area for trade falls flat when you look at the map. There are no trade routes leading through Ferelden - it's the end stop. It can possibly export some wood (one would guess that's what Gwaren is about to some extent) and other things, import some luxury goods that it just doesn't produce, but everything is limited by its own attractiveness as end destination. The most it could benefit from trade seems to be if it allowed safe haven for pirates in its ports

No, really, I just can't imagine any transit trade going through Ferelden, any at all.

[Solbranthius]

This modern lense in which we view expansionism is slightly odd in a fictional medieval setting.

War is profitable for a Empire.

Not only is it profitable but it's a viable option for dealing with the rest of Thedas. It's hard to gain holdings in other provinces without it.

 

This.

 

I really wish more people would stop expecting every character and in-game region to adhere to real world modern morality. It makes for an incredibly dull and predictable setting. Orlais is hardly without redeeming qualities. Nor is it the worst of all the in-game locations. 

[Xilizhra]

This.

 

I really wish more people would stop expecting every character and in-game region to adhere to real world modern morality. It makes for an incredibly dull and predictable setting. Orlais is hardly without redeeming qualities. Nor is it the worst of all the in-game locations. 

Of the in-game locations in Inquisition, Orlais is the worst. Whether it's worse than Tevinter or not...well, we'll probably need to see Tevinter in-game.

 

In any case, the real world has plenty of villains in it; there's no need that to make a boring setting. Mass Effect runs on that, for instance.

[Eliastion]

This.

 

I really wish more people would stop expecting every character and in-game region to adhere to real world modern morality. It makes for an incredibly dull and predictable setting. Orlais is hardly without redeeming qualities. Nor is it the worst of all the in-game locations. 

But the problem isn't about morality but about economy. It's not "war is evil" perspective, it's the "war is expensive" problem.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah, well.

Somehow Tevinter is somehow still one of the richest nations in Thedas, so there.

Because blood magic!

[Addai]

Yeah, well.

 

Somehow Tevinter is somehow still one of the richest nations in Thedas, so there.

Do we know that? I picture a pretty steep economic cliff between the upper and working classes.

[Eliastion]

Do we know that? I picture a pretty steep economic cliff between the upper and working classes.

AFAIK, Tevinter puts up a show, but the reality is... different. If we were to believe the wiki, description of the Capital doesn't really give us an image of glorious empire with full coffers:

 

By the Dragon Age, the city is full of refugees fleeing from the never-ending war against the Qunari. Centuries of decadence have let the once great city fall more and more into decay with each passing year. The remnants of its former glory can still be seen, but are buried under the filth of ages of decay and apathy. The high towers of the Circle of Magi rise above the small homes of peasants, and clearly demonstrate who is in charge of Tevinter.

 

And that's the glorious capital, pride of Tevinter, never-conquered city-fortress. Filthy slum-city full of refugees from other parts of the Empire. The palaces are still there, but that's hardly a testament to current state of the Empire, since old Tevinter architecture (undoubtedly magic-reinforced during construction) has proven to be incredibly durable, Fort Drakon is still in great shape and even Ostagar remained a respectable fortress despite falling into disuse a long time ago, exposed to elements with no maintenance.

Tevinter wants to appear rich, but it is not, not anymore.

[Ashagar]

Yes but keep in mind that the codex is by a unreliable narrator who is part of the chantry which would not approve a favorable picture being painted of Tevinter and its capital as they are heretics, setting side Imperial chantry existed first before it summited to the later Orlaisian chantry before breaking with it later over theological differences.

[The Baconer]

Tevinter is still the largest consumer of two of the most expensive resources in Thedas: slaves and Lyrium.

[Steelcan]

Tevinter is still the largest consumer of two of the most expensive resources in Thedas: slaves and Lyrium.

idk slaves seem fairly cheap since there are so many of them

[The Baconer]

idk slaves seem fairly cheap since there are so many of them

 

The only specific number mentioned, to my knowledge, was 100 sovereigns per slave, but that was before the DA:I inflation.

[Steelcan]

The only specific number mentioned, to my knowledge, was 100 sovereigns per slave, but that was before the DA:I inflation.

it would also depend on quality, a strong young slave is gonna fetch a higher price than a sick, elderly, one, unless they have some very valuable skill

[Eliastion]

Yes but keep in mind that the codex is by a unreliable narrator who is part of the chantry which would not approve a favorable picture being painted of Tevinter and its capital as they are heretics, setting side Imperial chantry existed first before it summited to the later Orlaisian chantry before breaking with it later over theological differences.

This unreliable narrator is Brother Genitivi, who is also known for writing things like these about the results/aftermatch of Exalted Marches against Qunari:

 

Dealing with those of the local populace which had converted to the Qunari religion proved difficult, especially as some of these had lived under the qun now for generations, and the response by many armies was simply to exterminate all those who had converted. Officially the Chantry denies this, claiming most converts fled north into Rivain and Par Vollen, but the mass graves at Nocen Fields and Marnus Pell attest otherwise. Indeed, so many were slain at Marnus Pell that the Veil is said to be permanently sundered, the ruins still plagued by restless corpses to this day.

 

It's your decision to what extent you believe what he wrote, but if his book contains passages like this one, I'm pretty sure that whatever mistakes he makes are more related to lack of reliable sources or lack of understanding, perhaps some naivety on his part - I don't suspect him of any conscious manipulation to make Tevinter seem worse-off than it is. Especially if his codex entry about Tevinter ends with words

 

And yet the Imperium survives. Whether with sword or magic, Tevinter remains a force to be reckoned with. Minrathous has been besieged by men, by Qunari, by Andraste herself, and never fallen.

 

(emphasis mine)

So yeah. When he says that Tevinter is

 

The Imperium is little more than a dilapidated old slattern, crouching in the far north of Thedas, drunkenly cursing at passersby to recall her faded beauty.

One can see that Minrathous was once the center of the world. The vestiges of her power and artistry yet stand. But they are buried in the layers of filth that the Imperium's decadence has accumulated over the ages. The magocracy live in elegant stone towers, literally elevated above the stench of the slaves and peasants below. The outskirts of Minrathous are awash in a sea of refugees turned destitute by the never-ending war between the Imperium and the Qunari.

 

I'm willing to accept his description as honest, especially since - given its political situation - it would be very strange if the country were in good shape economically.

 

Tevinter is still the largest consumer of two of the most expensive resources in Thedas: slaves and Lyrium.

It has also established relations with dwarves (much better than any other nation in Thedas). And as for slaves - I don't think they are really THAT expensive. Also, slavery seems to be a crutch they use to somehow keep their economy from collapsing completely.

Also, any prices we could get from source material won't really mean anything unless we also get some reliable reference point and the prices in-game are so all over the place that they just can't be treated seriously...

[The Baconer]

It has also established relations with dwarves (much better than any other nation in Thedas). And as for slaves - I don't think they are really THAT expensive.

 

On what basis?

 

Also, slavery seems to be a crutch they use to somehow keep their economy from collapsing completely.

 

Um, no more than serfdom or indentured servitude is "used" as a crutch.

[Steelcan]

the Tevinter economy is described as entirely reliant on slave labor in a codex entry, not infallible, but i see little reason to doubt it

[Eliastion]

the Tevinter economy is described as entirely reliant on slave labor in a codex entry, not infallible, but i see little reason to doubt it

And that just wouldn't make sense if every slave was worth more than Chevalier's gear. Of course, those specially-trained high-class slaves might be a different matter entirely, but that would be comparing a draft animal pulling a plough to a top-class racing horse or great war mount.

[dragonflight288]

Because blood magic!

 

Blood doesn't stimulate an economy. You need goods production, distribution and consumption. 

 

It probably has less to do with blood magic and more to do with slave labor. They can produce and distribute goods at a far lower cost than other countries because they don't have to pay the labor.

 

Krem brings it up that his/her father was a tailor who made shirts, but a magister started his slaves in the business and it drove Krem's father out of business. He couldn't  match the lowered prices because he had to pay for everything and the magister didn't. 

[dragonflight288]

The only specific number mentioned, to my knowledge, was 100 sovereigns per slave, but that was before the DA:I inflation.

 

Zevren was bought for three sovereigns when he was a boy.