460 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

Honestly the PC collects a assortment of violent thugs around them anyway; a Chevalier wouldn't be out of place in the roster.

[Aimi]

I just don't see how you can call someone dishonorable when their standard of honor is different than your own, its fine to pass moral judgement on them, that's another matter

You're drawing a distinction without difference between labeling somebody "dishonorable" and passing moral judgment on their actions.

[Steelcan]

You're drawing a distinction without difference between labeling somebody "dishonorable" and passing moral judgment on their actions.

The distinction is that one can be honorable and not moral or moral but not honorable, I don't think the two are interchangeable

[Master Warder Z_]

Lawful evil is filled with characters that held themselves to a personal honor creed.

[Aimi]

The distinction is that one can be honorable and not moral or moral but not honorable, I don't think the two are interchangeable

Then you are adopting a more prescriptive and narrow definition of the term than the rest of the English-speaking world.

[The Baconer]

Honestly the PC collects a assortment of violent thugs around them anyway; a Chevalier wouldn't be out of place in the roster.

 

If we're going to Tevinter, a Chevalier would make for a rather unfashionable peon.

 

Or... maybe not. Putting them to work in the Imperium's service would be entertaining.

[Master Warder Z_]

If we're going to Tevinter

 

That hasn't been confirmed.

 

.-.

 

It could just as easily be Rivain.

 

In fact i'd argue Rivain would make even more sense then Tevinter.

[The Baconer]

That hasn't been confirmed.

 

.-.

 

It could just as easily be Rivain.

 

In fact i'd argue Rivain would make even more sense then Tevinter.

 

Even more reason for a Chevalier to not tread where they're irrelevant, in that case.

[Steelcan]

Even more reason for a Chevalier to not tread where they're irrelevant, in that case.

we had a tevinter mage in Orlais and Ferelden, so its not exactly impossible

[Master Warder Z_]

Even more reason for a Chevalier to not tread where they're irrelevant, in that case.

 

Irrelevant? Hardly; They are Orlesian nobility, what does Orlesian nobility do in Rivain?

 

i haven't a clue, but there could be something going on there that warrants the attention of a knight of the empire.

 

Heck you wouldn't even need to over hand wave it in, Orlais likely does a fair bit of business in the Capital, what with it being the seat of the Chantry in the country, and Orlais being the seat of the Chantry in Thedas.

[Colonelkillabee]

Where I come from, honor isn't something you can take off like a cross just before you're about to do something unclean, then expect to put it back on untarnished.

[Steelcan]

Where I come from, honor isn't something you can take off like a cross just before you're about to do something unclean, then expect to put it back on untarnished.

it depends on what that action it is and what the cultural context is, some cultures consider taking vengeance honorable, others put forth mercy instead as the mark of a good man

[The Baconer]

Irrelevant? Hardly; They are Orlesian nobility, what does Orlesian nobility do in Rivain?

 

Act as the mouthpiece for the southern Chantry or Orlesian interests, probably. Yawn. Permabench material.

 

 

we had a tevinter mage in Orlais and Ferelden, so its not exactly impossible

 

Made sense in context. Not to mention Tevinters are cool and exotic, while Orlesians are Orlesian.

 

A Chevalier being in Rivain to a similar end would mean Orlesian interest and/or meddling in the area, after I already had to deal with them aplenty in DA:I. I'd rather they **** off for a game. Unless, of course, it's a runaway ex-Chevalier, but isn't that exactly what we don't want here? Since they would undoubtedly spend a lot of time talking **** on the order, and confirming the idea that it is, in fact, a heap of ****.

[Obadiah]

Where I come from, honor isn't something you can take off like a cross just before you're about to do something unclean, then expect to put it back on untarnished.

That may be true, but I don't think the Chevaliers come from where you come from. Their code of honor is not your code of honor.

Also, I would like to see what the Chevalier code of honor is.

[Han Shot First]

Even more reason for a Chevalier to not tread where they're irrelevant, in that case.

 

A Chevalier could quite easily be written into the squad no matter where the game is set. Creating an excuse for a character tied to a faction to follow the protagonist is nothing new. There are good examples of that with most of the DA:O cast. Sten and Wynne are on missions for their faction, Zevran's employers want to kill him, Oghren has been disgraced and practically stripped of his caste, and Leliana ended up betrayed.

 

A Chevalier could be in Tevinter or Rivain (or wherever) because he or she backed the wrong player in Orlais' Great Game . His or her liege ends up dead and the Chevalier is forced to hit the road or face the same fate. 

[Colonelkillabee]

it depends on what that action it is and what the cultural context is, some cultures consider taking vengeance honorable, others put forth mercy instead as the mark of a good man

I definitely get the importance of not judging other cultures by my own standards, and avoiding ethnocentrism, but if anyone wants to try and talk about "honor" when they do what the chevaliers do...

 

Yea, I can't help but think they're all roleplaying and speaking of honor with tongue in cheek. No one's that stupid, no one's truly that blind. Surely.

 

 

They treat "honor" like just another mask. Another piece of clothing to be discarded when it suits them. Some do hold to a code, but what of Michel, who was considered "honorable", and then he murdered once his secret was discovered?

 

The masked empire having any sort of honor to speak of is laughable. The Great Game, something everyone is familiar with there. That is their code. Honor is just another tool used to play it.

[Colonelkillabee]

That may be true, but I don't think the Chevaliers come from where you come from. Their code of honor is not your code of honor.

Also, I would like to see what the Chevalier code of honor is.

Their honor amounts to ****** and **** then. Nothing at all.

[Steelcan]

I definitely get the importance of not judging other cultures by my own standards, and avoiding ethnocentrism, but if anyone wants to try and talk about "honor" when they do what the chevaliers do...

 

Yea, I can't help but think they're all roleplaying and speaking of honor with tongue in cheek. No one's that stupid, no one's truly that blind. Surely.

Well then you are still judging another culture's idea of honor with your own, and if we were simply talking about morality, that'd be fine, I'm by no means a moral relativist, but codes of honor and conduct are bit different than morality

[Colonelkillabee]

Well then you are still judging another culture's idea of honor with your own, and if we were simply talking about morality, that'd be fine, I'm by no means a moral relativist, but codes of honor and conduct are bit different than morality

 

Well I'm not Orlesian, and neither is anyone here, so I couldn't care less to be honest. Orlais in general can burn, and I know Ferelden's on board with that sentiment.

 

 

If they find Chevalier honorable by their own twisted culture, then that's all the more reason for me to hate them.

[Obadiah]

Their honor amounts to ****** and **** then. Nothing at all.

Apparently their honor means something to the Chevaliers.

[Colonelkillabee]

Apparently their honor means something to the Cavaliers.

So do my shoes. A convenience when needed, and easily discarded and cast off when necessary.

[Obadiah]

So do my shoes. A convenience when needed, and easily discarded and cast off when necessary.

Where do you see them cast off their honor? Their attack on the Alienage during their initiation, and many other attacks, appear to fall well within their honor.

[The Baconer]

Where do you see them cast off their honor?

 

Gaspard being content in winning a rigged duel. Gaspard planning to assault the peace talks with Ferelden sellswords. The Chevalier who hired Blackwall to have another noble assassinated. Michel choosing to hide his heritage over his duty to Orlais when it could have saved lives.

[Cecilia]

I would very much wish to explore more the Code and what it means to be a Chevalier. It could lend itself to a very interesting story focused on what it mean to be honourable. Unfortunately, there's probably no market for it

 

"So many vows...they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other.” 

 

disillusioned Jaime chevalier 

 

I really liked Michel when I encountered him in Emprise and just Orlesian culture in general is quite fun - I sincerely hope you do get to play as an Orlesian at some point (the devious cat-nobles to the Ferelden dog-lords!)

[Obadiah]

Gaspard being content in winning a rigged duel.
...

Specify which duel. The ones I am aware of were not rigged by him.

...
Gaspard planning to assault the peace talks with Ferelden sellswords.
...

Probably outside of the code of honor if it just a straight attack; probably within the code of honor if Gaspard had some pretense for the attack.

...
The Chevalier who hired Blackwall to have another noble assassinated.
...

Serving his liege so probably within the code of honor.

...
Michel choosing to hide his heritage over his duty to Orlais when it could have saved lives.

Hiding his heritage only proved to save lives well after the fact. Now you're arguing that he should have either broken his word to Briala at the end of the duel with Gaspard, or simply not have been a Chevalier in the first place.

Really though, these all sound like things to criticize morally, and the honor code of the Chevalier is probably not a moral code.