For someone joining the chevaliers, I don't imagine the difference means much.Orlesian nobles may not like elves. But not liking them and walking up to one and killing them are two different things.
If we ever have a chevalier as a companion, it better be a repentant ex-chevalier.
Boooooring.
Give us a chevalier who takes pride in being one, who admits there are bad apples but believe the Chevaliers represent an ideal that one should strive towards. Let us argue with him over honour and the Code. If playing as a City Elf, let us relate a story where Chevaliers walked into your Alienage and did bad things.
Now that would be interesting.
Except it's really not. For their intiation, at least, they're killing indiscriminately.
That is based on limited sources. The initiation rite only gets a couple mentions in the game, and it is possible those could be exaggerated. If you read real world ancient historians, they often differ with each other on details.
As an example in the games...there has been much more information in DA:O and DA2 on Elven gods or the fall of Arlathan. Look how that turned out in DA:I. Half the known 'facts' were incorrect.
The Chevaliers are not necessarily locked into mustache-twirling evil, and I'd argue that not showing a more complicated picture of them makes them less interesting as a faction, and more divorced from the real world.
I think we've also seen a couple hints that perhaps not all Chevaliers live up to that reputation. Michel de Chevin and Stroud both come across as fairly honorable. So did the Chevalier in Blackwall's story about the tournament.
The chevaliers have no ideal that anyone should strive towards.Boooooring.
Give us a chevalier who takes pride in being one, who admits there are bad apples but believe the Chevaliers represent an ideal that one should strive towards. Let us argue with him over honour and the Code. If playing as a City Elf, let us relate a story where Chevaliers walked into your Alienage and did bad things.
Now that would be interesting.
I'm sorry, but you're simply in denial. We have multiple sources and one from an eyewitness participant. In Origins we had their history in terrorizing the Fereldan population and an account of a chevalier chasing a family out of Orlais because the woman didn't want to be raped.That is based on limited sources.
Michel is a putz. He took part in the initiation as well, and lied his whole life about his identity, in order to play act in the Game.I think we've also seen a couple hints that perhaps not all Chevaliers live up to that reputation. Michel de Chevin and Stroud both come across as fairly honorable. So did the Chevalier in Blackwall's story about the tournament.
The chevaliers have no ideal that anyone should strive towards.
Sure they do.
They are an interesting conundrum. On one hand, they are granted far too many privileges and can only be recruited from people who are in the higher social strata to begin with which, inevitably, leads to abuses of power.
And on the other hand, they are beholden to a Code that is, in fact, too naïve and idealistic for this cynical world.
For instance, Gaspard sees his enemies being attacked by undead and he says that he is honour bound to assist them. From this, we can know that the Code dictates that, should you see a sentient person attacked by an obviously evil being, it doesn't matter if they are your enemies, you must assist them.
In this regard, the Code dictates a better conduct that the Dalish had when they simply watched Montsimmard fight off the Darkspawn without assisting them.
A Chevalier companion that acted by the Code to a letter would be interesting.
Bioware should explore this contradiction.
"Naive and idealistic" on one hand and "full legal rights to commit atrocities at will" do not combined into an interesting conundrum in my book, but into a nonsensical clusterf*ck of bad writing.
The only way I'd see a chevalier companion work is as either a disgusted and repentant ex-chevalier, or as an entirely optional choice for evil protagonists, with associated consequences -- and in that case, he better not do part-time work as comic relief, as various evil NPCs from past Bioware games have done. Even so, I'd rather not see it at all.
The chevaliers have no ideal that anyone should strive towards.
I'm sorry, but you're simply in denial. We have multiple sources and one from an eyewitness participant. In Origins we had their history in terrorizing the Fereldan population and an account of a chevalier chasing a family out of Orlais because the woman didn't want to be raped.
There are former military personnel who claim they saw UFOs on American military bases. Should we accept every word of that as absolute truth? People frequently lie or exaggerate for any number of reasons, get confused, or misremember details. Just because a couple sources say that the Chevaliers kill elves indiscriminately during the initiation rite, doesn't necessarily mean those sources are entirely correct. That is particularly the case considering it's barely mentioned in the game world. You get a couple brief references, and that's it.
As for the Orlesian merchant in Denerim...she's one woman who had a horrifying encounter with one or several (can't recall which now) Chevaliers. Does that mean every Chevalier is a rapist? There probably isn't an army in history that hasn't some of it's members commit rape at one time or another, because armies are made up of large numbers of individuals. Some are inevitably going to be bad apples. But that doesn't mean that they're all rapists. Why shouldn't that also be true for the Chevaliers? Are Stroud and Michel de Chevin rapers?
Another reason why I'd like to see the series show a more balanced side to the Chevaliers is that far too often the series has given off a francophobic vibe in the portrayal of the Orlesians. They're more often than not a collection of bad French stereotypes, villainous, or eccentric fops...and sometimes all three simultaneously. The less of that, the better.
I think we've also seen a couple hints that perhaps not all Chevaliers live up to that reputation. Michel de Chevin and Stroud both come across as fairly honorable. So did the Chevalier in Blackwall's story about the tournament.
People like Loghain Mac Tir and Gaspard de Chalons also seemed honorable, yet we know both have committed atrocities. The fact someone appears honorable doesn't mean they are. Especially in Orlais where putting on airs is a part of their culture. So we can't really say if Stroud or the Chevalier in Rainier's backstory were actually honorable or whether it was just a mask.
(,,,)
As an example in the games...there has been much more information in DA:O and DA2 on Elven gods or the fall of Arlathan. Look how that turned out in DA:I. Half the known 'facts' were incorrect.
(...)
Those "facts" were always a reconstructed two millenia old lore left by a fallen empire and a couple hundred years of slavery.
Chevaliers are not a forgotten myth. And sure, you can dismiss every piece of lore we don't like as an outright lie, even the devs could say Michel got it wrong or something - but so far we got two seperate accounts mentioning the custom plus a couple others confirming other atrocities (though these could be qualified as "bad apple" things.
Making chevaliers morally gray would require a retcon. And I think I would enjoy this one (if it was handled well) but it would be a retcon nonetheless.
"Naive and idealistic" on one hand and "full legal rights to commit atrocities at will" do not combined into an interesting conundrum in my book, but into a nonsensical clusterf*ck of bad writing.
(...)
There are some very strange approaches to morality out there. Differentiating between approach to your peers (by virtue of being nobility or someone you acknowledged as enemy) and some commoner filth isn't as unrealistic as it might seem.
Sure they do.
They are an interesting conundrum. On one hand, they are granted far too many privileges and can only be recruited from people who are in the higher social strata to begin with which, inevitably, leads to abuses of power.And on the other hand, they are beholden to a Code that is, in fact, too naïve and idealistic for this cynical world.
For instance, Gaspard sees his enemies being attacked by undead and he says that he is honour bound to assist them. From this, we can know that the Code dictates that, should you see a sentient person attacked by an obviously evil being, it doesn't matter if they are your enemies, you must assist them.
In this regard, the Code dictates a better conduct that the Dalish had when they simply watched Montsimmard fight off the Darkspawn without assisting them.
A Chevalier companion that acted by the Code to a letter would be interesting.
Bioware should explore this contradiction.
Could that defending of enemy be because of them being an enemy? And death by getting slaughtered by undead somehow not honorable enough for an enemy of his? Honor, generally speaking, seems to be their thing, as distorted as their take on it may be.
Also, off-topic, but I never really bought that part about Montsimmard - the elves literally moved their assess from Dales, walked up to Montsimmard and then sat there enjoying the view? 
This is either made-up (and there was no elven army in vicinity) or so distorted that we don't know what really happened... or it could be a record of late arrival of Dalish help (you know: Darkspawn start withdrawing, people finally have a second to look around: oh, elves, there on that far-away hill, they apparently watched the whole!).
People like Loghain Mac Tir and Gaspard de Chalons also seemed honorable, yet we know both have committed atrocities. The fact someone appears honorable doesn't mean they are. Especially in Orlais where putting on airs is a part of their culture. So we can't really saw if Stroud or the Chevalier in Rainier's backstory were actually honorable or whether it was just a mask.
We don't know enough about them, that is true. But that's also why I'd love to see a Chevalier companion that isn't what many would expect. Sort of like how Legion's inclusion in Mass Effect 2 showed a different side of the Geth. Or even Dorian with Tevinter in DA:I.
The Chevaliers as all being mustache-twirling villains is quite frankly kind of boring.
We don't know enough about them, that is true. But that's also why I'd love to see a Chevalier companion that isn't what many would expect. Sort of like how Legion's inclusion in Mass Effect 2 showed a different side of the Geth. Or even Dorian with Tevinter in DA:I.
The Chevaliers as all being mustache-twirling villains is quite frankly kind of boring.
I don't think Legion is a fair example to use. For the Geth, we knew literally nothing about them other than the fact they existed, some worked with Saren, and the stories the Quarians told of them attacking the Quarians(which turned out to be completely false). So with really an utter lack of knowledge, they were left as something like boogeymen. We don't really have that much lack of knowledge of any other faction.
Dorian is a better example, but he isn't a good template for what you want either. He hates how Tevinter is and wants to change it, so if a Chevalier did that it would have to have them be a repentant one who disagrees with what the Chevaliers do. He can like parts of it, just like Dorian likes parts of Tevinter, but overall would have to be against it.
I don't think they are all mustache-twirling villains. Michel is one that isn't portrayed as such and we have plenty of information on him.
Aren't they just Orlesian Knights?
No, there are Orlesian knights who aren't Chevaliers. Our companion Thom Rainier was one.
The Chevaliers are more akin to Orlais' version of special forces.
They are really badass Orlesian Knigths.
These dudes are trained to kill anything. No really, their training includes how to fight mages, demons, darkspawn, etc.
Could that defending of enemy be because of them being an enemy? And death by getting slaughtered by undead somehow not honorable enough for an enemy of his? Honor, generally speaking, seems to be their thing, as distorted as their take on it may be.
Also, off-topic, but I never really bought that part about Montsimmard - the elves literally moved their assess from Dales, walked up to Montsimmard and then sat there enjoying the view?
On the map, Montsimmard is the closest city to the border with the Dales.
I imagine that was the greatest concentration of Darkspawn near the Dales and the elven army was there in case the Horde decided to move on them next.
They are really badass Orlesian Knigths.
These dudes are trained to kill anything. No really, their training includes how to fight mages, demons, darkspawn, etc.
Except for Ferelden peasants, Loghain sent them all back to Florian in a box using nothing but a Katriel's shin bone and a toothpick.
On the map, Montsimmard is the closest city to the border with the Dales.
I imagine that was the greatest concentration of Darkspawn near the Dales and the elven army was there in case the Horde decided to move on them next.
Unlikely. We don't have accounts of what really was happening in Dales during that Blight, but we know about Darkspawn in Orlais AND in what now is Ferelden. We can safely assume they had their share of darkspawn too.
Except for Ferelden peasants, Loghain sent them all back to Florian in a box using nothing but a Katriel's shin bone and a toothpick.
Nothing beats a Fereldan peasant!
Or maybe just Loghain has +20 (yay for arbitrary bonuses without context! 
) against Orlesians, transferable to his troops. He literally made a special task-force from city-elf servants and hookers who tagged along with Maric's army...
No really, their training includes how to fight mages, demons, darkspawn, etc.
Which I honestly find skeptical. Michael, unarguably the most badass Chevalier alive, gets laid out nearly every time he is targeted by magic in the book.
I wonder if they're really techniques or "Super Secret Chevalier Technique #351".
Which I honestly find skeptical. Michael, unarguably the most badass Chevalier alive, gets laid out nearly every time he is targeted by magic in the book.
I wonder if they're really techniques or "Super Secret Chevalier Technique #351".
Maybe Michel skipped that class
You're just being ridiculous now. You may want the chevaliers to be something other than they are, but this is what we're given. I have no interest in redeeming the fanatic Orlesian nationalist brand. The only way I'd take any interest in them is if they give up the Game and make Orlais into a republic.There are former military personnel who claim they saw UFOs on American military bases. Should we accept every word of that as absolute truth?
and the stories the Quarians told of them attacking the Quarians(which turned out to be completely false).
Wel they did undeniably attack them, and kill 99% of them, that is not up for debate
Which I honestly find skeptical. Michael, unarguably the most badass Chevalier alive, gets laid out nearly every time he is targeted by magic in the book.
I wonder if they're really techniques or "Super Secret Chevalier Technique #351".
Magic is dangerous and he wasn't fighting common foes.
The one regular mage he fights is the First of that clan (whom he defeats despite her having help), one Arcane Horror (whom he kills with help and I will point out Felassan nearly soiled himself at the sight of it and Michel just had killed a Revenant and Undead) and the same First but being possessed by one of the Forbidden Ones.
You're just being ridiculous now. You may want the chevaliers to be something other than they are, but this is what we're given. I have no interest in redeeming the fanatic Orlesian nationalist brand. The only way I'd take any interest in them is if they give up the Game and make Orlais into a republic.
Next you'll be asking for an charter of human rights agreed upon by every nation in Thedas.
Somewhat unrealistic.
Next you'll be asking for an charter of human rights agreed upon by every nation in Thedas.
Somewhat unrealistic.
Unless Qunari win. They have a charter of "rights". And they reeducate everyone who wouldn't agree upon it...
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