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EA Exec: "Our Games Are Too Hard To Learn"


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#176
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As paradoxical as it may sound (pun intended), CK2 was a game that taught very well, although not in the traditional sense. It's tutorial left me with more questions than answers, but it's UI did a great job of being more self-explanatory. But that's not a good example of a game that taught well by design. Rather one that taught well by repeated, sharp stabs at my ego.

In terms of a good teaching game, I'd say Banner Saga did an excellent job at doing this. The game has progressively more complex levels of strategy as the player gets further in, unlocked by different character and enemy types that bring various strengths and weaknesses to the table. The game not only has good pacing for this, but also walks the player through how these different challenges can be counter-acted (at a high level - the game doesn't hold your hand on higher difficulties). In addition, the tutorials are laid out in a very narrative-friendly manner and not a "it's time to go to adveturer's school!" manner.

By the end of the game, the player is verses in the necessity to use attacks to damage armor over straight normal damage, has a sense of urgency about enemies who are able to heal and get a crazy feeling of fear knowing that Bellower can tear through a poorly lined up defensive unit wall if you aren't careful.

It's a game that was simple to learn, difficult to master and which never made me feel like there were game mechanics going on that weren't explained. It's not a perfect game, but it is perfectly taught.

 

 

On another front, I also thought Divinity: Original Sin did a good job of teaching without tutorials, but rather through gameplay. The environments were so interactive that it encouraged constant and deep experimentation, which resulted in the player learning by doing. It wasn't just number or stat crunching to get the best DPS outcome... the player could feel like a mad scientist by freezing an enemy and then teleporting them off a small ledge, only to see them shatter and break all over the floor!

That's learning through fun.

 

Alright.

 

I find your point about CK2 interesting, because I found its GUI (in the short amount of time I've given it) a little obtuse.

 

Haven't played the others, I'll be able to give D: OS a shot in the next couple days though.


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#177
Seraphim24

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It's not that people aren't willing to learn... it's that developers have given up trying to teach.

 

miyagi_approves.jpg


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#178
Fast Jimmy

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then they somehow fumble their way through enough games to learn how to play, then the Mongols come and drink their tears


Mongolians...

You know, I power-gamed a Georgian start using some strategic Merchant republics to fund forming the kingdom of Georgia and was on my way to a WC and, just for shirts and giggles, decided to stay at kingdom level - never moving to empire. I was Georgian proud, with a Bagratoni bloodline that would make you weep. This led to many of my counties becoming de jure Georgian, all one glorious kingdom that cannibalozed the Byzzies and spread from the northern reaches of Norway to the Far East reaches of India. I was buffered by the HRE, Italy and West Africa as my only obstacles to my goal of ruling all.

And when the Mongolians came, my armies wore them down but could not secure victory with their complete lack of attrition and uber generals. This was expected - I would crush what I could, surrender a few territories and then grow strong while I waited for them to strike again.

Except that's not how Mongolian invasions work. When you surrender, you give up ALL the territories in the de jure region they invade. They took a county that was de jure Georgian and... GUESS WHAT? Aside from a few random counties in Russia, the Middle East and Africa? ALL MONGOLIAN.

In a rage, I gathered forces and was able to actually drive them back in a second invasion, reclaiming some of my territories in my Georgian home base. But the Mongolians...

...they... ...they... ...they completely dismantled and demolished all of my Merchant Republic cities. Absolutely worthless. I could have scraped and battled to take everything back, but it was all in vain - my entire master kingdom was burned beyond recovery in one fell swoop.

GOD. D@M4. MONGOLIANS.


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#179
Fast Jimmy

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Sorry... what were we talking about?
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#180
Fast Jimmy

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Alright.

I find your point about CK2 interesting, because I found its GUI (in the short amount of time I've given it) a little obtuse.

Haven't played the others, I'll be able to give D: OS a shot in the next couple days though.


Yeah, it was actually a poor game to teach, per se. But once you understood what the information meant and how to navigate it, it was a treasure trove of data and options.

To go with my "real" answer, I'm going to say Banner Saga, all the way.

#181
L. Han

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^Banner Saga is a good game. Too bad I thought the combat was quite shallow, limited to mostly just 'move and attack'.



#182
Fast Jimmy

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^Banner Saga is a good game. Too bad I thought the combat was quite shallow, limited to mostly just 'move and attack'.

 

See, I didn't feel that way. The use of ranged characters versus melee, the use of different damage types, as well as the reduction of efficacy of your units as they took damage (not to mention the crucial armor component as you fight Dredge), along with other elements... I feel like it made things almost chess-like, especially at higher difficulties. 

 

YMMV but as I said - I felt it was an easy system to learn but a difficult one to master.



#183
Guest_John Wayne_*

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You know, this would have irked me a bit if it come from someone other than an employee of EA. lol



#184
Kaiser Arian XVII

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They kicked me out of RPG-codex for not liking Banner Saga when I was just joined in for a week.


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#185
Guest_TrillClinton_*

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They kicked me out of RPG-codex for not liking Banner Saga when I was just joined in for a week.


Lmaoooooooooo

#186
RZIBARA

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That's because the exec is a filthy casual. foking hardscoper



#187
Fast Jimmy

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They kicked me out of RPG-codex for not liking Banner Saga when I was just joined in for a week.

 

You didn't like the Banner Saga?

 

Reported.


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#188
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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They kicked me out of RPG-codex for not liking Banner Saga when I was just joined in for a week.

 

They probably thought you were a troll alt because of the way you speak lol.



#189
Fast Jimmy

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They probably thought you were a troll alt because of the way you speak lol.


You can tell by the way he uses his alt, he's a troller-man, no time to talk.

#190
Kaiser Arian XVII

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RPG Codex is a sacred heaven that no fake RPGamer and suspected of being troll should set foot.


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#191
Fidite Nemini

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RPG Codex is a sacred heaven that no fake RPGamer and suspected of being troll should set foot.

 

RPG Codex is a community of self-absorbed jackasses who think their opinion is somehow more important than others, especially if the others happen to disagree with their opinion.

 

I'd sooner become the Pope than voluntarily join those idiots.


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#192
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Mongolians...

GOD. D@M4. MONGOLIANS.

 

I defeated Seljuks once and Mongols twice as Persia in Crusader Kings II. I FEEL SO POWERFUL!



#193
bussinrounds

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Codex is the only place I can trust

 

(especially compared to other gaming sites)



#194
Fast Jimmy

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RPG Codex is a community of self-absorbed jackasses who think their opinion is somehow more important than others, especially if the others happen to disagree with their opinion.

I'd sooner become the Pope than voluntarily join those idiots.

They are a smug bunch of self-important pricks. But they DO have a larger collective repository of obscure RPG knowledge than anywhere else I've ever encountered. Whether that's something to be smug about is obviously very debatable but I wouldn't call them idiots, per se.

#195
Fast Jimmy

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I defeated Seljuks once and Mongols twice as Persia in Crusader Kings II. I FEEL SO POWERFUL!


Yeah, they are a ****** but they CAN be beaten. Mounted units of your own help out a lot. And pre-Charlemagne, you could throw an obscene amount of money into assassinating nearly every member of the Khan's court and remove those crazy 20+ Martial vassals right before a battle to get the added bonus of fighting leaderless men.

The kick to the balls, from what I can tell, is if you have the Sunset Invasion DLC and get stuck in between the two of them - Mongols from the East and Aztecs to the West. No nation can survive a two front war.

#196
Kaiser Arian XVII

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The kick to the balls, from what I can tell, is if you have the Sunset Invasion DLC and get stuck in between the two of them - Mongols from the East and Aztecs to the West. No nation can survive a two front war.

 

Just imagining it is suffering.



#197
Fidite Nemini

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They are a smug bunch of self-important pricks. But they DO have a larger collective repository of obscure RPG knowledge than anywhere else I've ever encountered. Whether that's something to be smug about is obviously very debatable but I wouldn't call them idiots, per se.

 

Anyone who thinks himself the better than his peers just because he has accumulated more knowledge is an idiot.

 

Knowledge is supposed to be applied and disseminated, not to be used as leverage/justification to belittle others.


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#198
Seboist

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Rpg Codex is a far better forum for RPG discussion than this one. They discuss the nitty gritty of RPG mechanics, not silly nonsense like romances (i've seen 5+ threads on that in the first page of the DAI discussion forum at various times) and unlike this forum, they rightfully don't take things like DA2's asinine plot seriously.

 

I love the dex.  codex_heart.png



#199
Fast Jimmy

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You can tell by the way he uses his alt, he's a troller-man, no time to talk.


Did nobody find this funny? I was cracking myself up over this.

#200
Fast Jimmy

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Rpg Codex is a far better forum for RPG discussion this one. They discuss the nitty gritty of RPG mechanics, not silly nonsense like romances (i've seen 5+ threads on that in the first page of the DAI discussion forum at various times) and unlike this forum, they rightfully don't take things like DA2's asinine plot seriously.

I love the dex. codex_heart.png


To be fair to the BSN, only Off Topic is really a place to talk about RPGs other than Bioware ones. And there's a lot of other stuff going on to really ferment deep RPG mechanics talk.


The DA forums used to be a decent place... but now it's become either an area to complain about bugs or attack anyone who tries to point out any way that DA:I needs to improve (especially if you compare it to other RPGs on the market).