362 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Meredith has a design so awesome they now copied it for Andraste. I know it's supposed to be backwards - Meredith as the KN dressing in the same Regalia as Andraste - but I think design-wise it worked backwards.  

[Hiemoth]

See, to me, the whole point is that Sarcastic Hawke deals with his situation by deflecting it with humour. That's why the solo-scene after what happens with the Viscount's son at the Chantry is so lovely - it's just a barely coherent rambling rant about the whole affair, which is superficially funny but it's really just Hawke trying to come to terms with the whole thing.

Varric is the same way. The humour is just his way to keep from tearing all his (chest) hair out. 

 

In DA:I, the writing moves away from that and has the characters openly express their emotion as the underlying emotion. On the one hand, this helps because it doesn't seem like the game isn't taking itself seriously. But at the same time it hurts the characters, or at least changing them.

 

I often felt it could be both, it could be Hawke being a jerk or Hawke trying to just desperately deal with the situation. Despite so many lamenting about the lack of roleplaying options in DA2, it is often overlooked that your actions and reaction were actually separate. So you could choose those sarcastic replies, yet by actions having him/her be someone trying their best or just not giving a damn.

[In Exile]

I often felt it could be both, it could be Hawke being a jerk or Hawke trying to just desperately deal with the situation. Despite so many lamenting about the lack of roleplaying options in DA2, it is often overlooked that your actions and reaction were actually separate. So you could choose those sarcastic replies, yet by actions having him/her be someone trying their best or just not giving a damn.

 

Yeah, my Hawke was always sarcastic but always, essentially, heroic. A bit more like a dashing CG rogue, except with a pintch of tone-deaf jerkass and a total disinterest in actually fixing social problems. 

[Hiemoth]

I think there is a noticeable difference in intensity. If you compare a line of Hawke's to a line of the Inquisitor, intended to convey the same tone and personality, you'll find that the Inquisitor's line is almost always more subdued - or Hawke's more extreme, depending on your viewpoint. This is good for roleplaying, since a subdued line is compatible with more different ways of intended character expression, but if you're the type of player who lets their characterization be done by the spoken lines, rather than seeing them as an expression of a preconceived characterization, you may find them inferior to Hawke's lines. At key points in the story, the Inquisitor makes up for that by having more options than Hawke, but that won't change the overall impression much for those who find the Inquisitor's lines lacking.

 

I'm firmly in the roleplayer camp, i.e. I put substantial imagination into my characters and I'm never content with letting the the game define them for me - so I prefer the Inquisitor - but I understand where some of the complaints are coming from.

 

In general, the less colorful dialogue also suits my preferences. One crazy Hawke is fun, but I'd hate such a pattern to repeat itself. My Inquisitors feel way more real than my Hawkes.

 

I actually largely agree to a large degree with the division you present here, but I do object on the roleplayer definition. For me Hawke allowed as many options as any other or even Shepard due to the separation of the tone and action, yet also made him/her more present in the world itself. I can fully appreciate people liking the more subdued approach of the Inquisitor, but it doesn't make me any less of a roleplayer liking the Hawke approach.

[Hiemoth]

Meredith has a design so awesome they now copied it for Andraste. I know it's supposed to be backwards - Meredith as the KN dressing in the same Regalia as Andraste - but I think design-wise it worked backwards.

 

I didn't even realize, but that might be completely true. The Andraste design in DAI was much closer to Meredith than what we saw in DAO or DA2.

[In Exile]

I didn't even realize, but that might be completely true. The Andraste design in DAI was much closer to Meredith than what we saw in DAO or DA2.

 

They use the design in DA2. If you go to the Chantry (or Grand Cathedral? Whatever it was called; I can't recall now) you'll see the statute of Andraste in her warrior wear, which is what Meredith wears. I just don't get what they're going for thematically since Meredith is a loon, and I don't think they were trying to suggest that Andraste was either hooked on red lyrium or a total nutter. 

[Ranadiel Marius]

 

Until the character you're speaking to reacts in a manner indicative of the Warden's tone perhaps being off.

 

>Chooses a simple "no" in a conversation, doesn't intend to offend whoever I'm talking to

>The person I'm talking to flips out and tells the Warden to stop being an a**hole

My favorite of these was a conversation with Zervan where I chose an option intending it to be"You're checking me out? Okay, w/e, I don't care." Apparently my actual tone was, "Oh my." Honestly, I miss having tone icons on all choices. I can't recall any particular instances in DAI where I came across completely differently than I intended.....but that is probably because of the lack of emotion on most deliveries. >.>

 

Before DAI came out, everyone was fully willing to cast hawke into the "fails at everything" category of protagonists, and the sheer amount of threads stating how "hawke should never have been the protag, it should have been the warden" were abound.

 

Now the cycle repeats itself, and its making me really start to think some people here just want to hate the current games no matter what the character does or how they act. Like, I could get hating the inquisitor, but the sudden heel-face turn you folks are showing to hawke is kinda telling its beyond a simple and fair criticism of a character whose writing might not be up to par.

 

I look forward to the next dragon age release, where people put on a new coating of rose colored memory for their glasses, and claim how the new protaganist was just the worse and that the inquisitor should have been the main character of the game.

While I have certainly made jokes about Hawke's actions being ineffective, that is more because it was funny than any serious complaints about him (and even then I've only done it a few times). Only real problem with DA2 imo was the lack of polish and a few cut corners (really wish Kirkwall could have evolved between acts). I prefered DA2 to DAO, and I still do. I find DAI on whole to be a better game, but if I am being honest I am more likely to do a complete run through of DA2 again than I am to ever do a DAI run through again because DA2 has a better cast and main character.....although DAI is better than DAO. *ducks for cover*

[KaiserShep]

Heathen. I wish there was a demerit badge I could pin to your sash.

[Hazegurl]

That's why it pays to not select every purple option all the time.

Right, my Hawke cracked his jokes but even he got pissed off for a while, murder knifed some folks, and was kind to those who deserved it. 

 

 

Lacking those, they just come off as disinterested jerks. Like, "Oh, your son died? Well that sucks, who wants some beer?" instead of "keep it together, you have to keep it together" which I assume would be what you believe is going on with sarcastic hawke.

 

My Hawke did care about the Viscount losing his son.  He flat out tells the Viscount to keep it together and to step up and be a leader. He tried to warn the Viscount multiple times that everything was getting out of control even before his son's death.
 

[Hiemoth]

They use the design in DA2. If you go to the Chantry (or Grand Cathedral? Whatever it was called; I can't recall now) you'll see the statute of Andraste in her warrior wear, which is what Meredith wears. I just don't get what they're going for thematically since Meredith is a loon, and I don't think they were trying to suggest that Andraste was either hooked on red lyrium or a total nutter. 

 

Damn, foiled by my memory. Although I still maintain that Meredith has an awesome visual design.

 

And yes, I know no one was actually contesting that, but let me have some pride left.

[In Exile]

Damn, foiled by my memory. Although I still maintain that Meredith has an awesome visual design.

And yes, I know no one was actually contesting that, but let me have some pride left.

What hath pride wrought? I remember that not going so well for Thedas last time ...

[Addai]

the inclusion of the other races (especially dwarves) is just ridiculous its clear that they were going for human only but people whined too much about different races so they just tacked them on
even though it doesn't make any sense that a Qunari (or dwarf or elf) would become the herald of andraste
 
at least in Origins it seemed plausible (most of the time)

How does the mage-templar war not concern every person living in southern Thedas?

[MrMrPendragon]

It's the story content and supporting characters. Origins had a lot of content that put you in situations where you can decide what kind of person the Warden is. The game also has a set of companions that make you look like a million dollars, and not just because they shower you with compliments.

[MACharlie1]

This is another problem: they go on setting dragon age games in a 15 years time span: the contraddictions and already existing chars will Always be a problem and will Always make inconsistecies. If dragon age 4 takes place 200 years in the future all the chars we know now will be dead and only presents in tales and legends, there would be less inconsistencies and less players dissappopinted and they would have more freedom in writing and characterization.

This thing of making plots deliver from a game to the other, importing the saves or using the dragon age keep, it's intriguing but didn't work, making thedas lore a mess. It didn't even work in ME where you get attached to chars than make only a small cameo in the final act, many things does not fit (racni everywhere even if i extinguished them just to name one).

Poor thedas: in 15 years there was a blight, a small city blew up, contant war, and now the sky torn apart vomiting demons. Give poor people a century of rest between two world's end (and a small city explosion).

That's the trade off.

You get to see your PC again - though they maybe rather a generic slate in the personality department. Or you can never see them or your favorite characters again.

People like Bioware characters. They want to see them again. Characters and storytelling is one of Biowares stronger qualities. They decided to go in this route. I have to agree with it.

[LilithMB]

Its probably been stated numerous times in this thread but i cant be bothered backtracking.

I actually really love the Brit voice actors, they did a wonderful job. So i have no problems with them.

Especially the male brit va's goofy laugh. It sort of makes me cringe,(when flirting with Cass)  but i love it, lol. Obviously they cant go all out when reading lines or you could be up and down crying, angry then just not giving a shyte and being cold or distant. All in one exchange.

So i get why its limited. Same with tracking dialogue, i get why its hard to give you free range.

But i hate how companions can have you looking stupid (viviennes a good example) purely to make them look clever.

Thats ridiculous. The options they give you make your inq look dumb, boring or like a doormat sometimes. (i like the perks that open up dialogue though)

Or when Dorian has a tantrum in one scene, (cant remeber which) and your Inquisitor does this>> instead of being given the option to snark him right back/be pissed off/be sorry or being ...its not that shocking inqy, you little petal...

Also i wish the inquisitor could be a little bit more of an ass/actually funny in the dialogue options if i want. I was really looking forward to my own Assquisitor PT. (i tried to have a Anti-Qunari-Pro Mage playthrough. But no. Just one, i dont trust Qunari, option...pffftt)

That actually reflected on how i felt about Iron Bull a little bit. Just no way that my Mage Inquisitor could rile him up (boring) or ask him important/hard questions. Dont really talk to him in current PT's. No replay purpose with him for how i wanted my game. Just a qunari textbook and dirty jokes. No offence bull lovers. But is that Bull's fault or my inquisitors for not having a chance to ask him?

Sometimes i feel like the options dont give you the opportunity to say the most obvious things either.

E.g "your a bit dodgy Blackwall, i dont think your what you seem" (this was me in my first PT before i found out about Rainier. Dont recall ever getting anything at all like this. Maybe you should after you talk to him and press him enough about the wardens. Maybe i found him rather off because id played the warden before though, so?)

or another example "I love you, Dorian" (dont care if he says it back to me, but i would like to have the option to say it to him, at the end...maybe when you have the, sooooo about the future, convo?) Little freedoms like that.

Or like i said, you never get to try to dress down Viv, even a little. Just stand there......losing.

She could still outmanoeuvre the inquisitor, but you dont even get to try to one up her or play her at her own game.

Ive only watched the Viv thing on YouTube and havent tried myself, so maybe you can? But i doubt it. Would rather not put my inq in the situation of looking like a moron to find out.

It sounds like im bagging it, and i kind of am. But if i had the chance to attempt to be a wiseass/clever/serious/you get what im on about, instead of neutral and just asking questions most of the time i would have felt more connected to the inquisitor, even if they failed against your companions 50% of the time. I mean im not a huge fan of Hawke but even fail Hawke was unique. If they could have found a medium between all three DA Protags id love myself-trevalyan a bit too much, would be great thanks.

[Hazegurl]

Ugh, don't get me started on what a doormat the IQ was concerning the companions. I think that what annoys me the most about him. With Blackwall you have the option to ask about his state of mind then you can say "All but you." When talking about the GW calling. It was ridiculous that I couldn't call him out because it was that moment where I knew he was freaking lying. I just didn't know the extent of his lie. But nope, the IQ just accepts his "Have I given you a reason not to trust me." crap.  IB is the Qun info dump guy. It sucks that my Qunari Mage couldn't have the same argument Solas and IB has. Instead it's the typical say one statement, then get told what an idiot you are. Convo done. Heaven forbid if my guy mentions what a load of BS most of the crap he says about casting all the blame on the deeds of the Vashoth like his people are just sitting around like innocent lambs.

 

Another thing I found odd, is that the IQ must always jump down Dorian's throat about slavery in Tevinter. Every single dialogue option is a freaking set up to arguing with him about it. Yet it's only a set up for the same type of convo where you get told off in some manner. Why even bother putting me into an inescapable argument with him if you're just gonna half ass the exchange.

 

And I have to admit that the Viv scene is enough to make me not like her much anymore. She's still cool but watching that scene on youtube was just...idk. I just can't stand it. BW basically wanted the IQ to be as inoffensive as possible and they wanted to make sure he didn't say or do anything the player doesn't expect so most of the IQ's motivation is pure headcanon which only made him come across as a sneaky coward around his companions, except for Sera.

 

I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised if someone didn't say this to the IQ at some point in this game.

 

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I do hate how Quizzy gets set up to have an arguement only to derp out at the last minute. Dorian, Vivienne and Bull are examples that are particularly terrible. I should be able to laugh in Dorian's face and call him a fool about his equivalence to alienages, I should be able to call Bull out on his crappy views on Vashoth with him drinking the proganda koolaid and I shouldn't be forced to be a tongue tied moron with Vivienne.

[LilithMB]

Another thing I found odd, is that the IQ must always jump down Dorian's throat about slavery in Tevinter. Every single dialogue option is a freakig set up to arguing with him about it. Yet it's only a set up for the same type of convo where you get told off in some manner. Why even bother putting me into an inescapable argument with him if you're just gonna half ass the exchange.

 

 

YES to all of your post. But this is another thing that drives me insane. Reloading to have a different turnout because your just....what? Only to find out its the same reaction in different levels of pissed off. In this case what says i really didnt give a toss about slavery? Being a snooty noble (i didnt play that way) its rather jarring. If just one of those options was *shrug, dont care* or "we've got six slaves on my estate in ostwick" (i know its only legal in Tevinter to own slaves, so "staff" or "the help")  "an elven women raised me" >we treated her well *pats back*...... It would make a world of difference, in situations like that.

 

Instead it's the typical say one statement, then get told what an idiot you are. Convo done.

this too.

[Vehementius]

Silent protagonist allowed for more reply choices allowing for a better character development. Especially if you are used to silent protagonists, I feel like I'm getting old. But I never needed them to speak, growing up in the 90s meant you imagined the voices your character took and you weren't left with hollow flat male-Hawke type voice acting. 

 

Each to their own, I guess. I have a harder time with silent protagonists and I grew up in the 90s with all the silent protagonists in games one can ever wish for and I really, really, really like male Hawke, a lot. I play DA2 from time to time just to listen to the snark. So many differing opinions lol. 

[wright1978]

I actually largely agree to a large degree with the division you present here, but I do object on the roleplayer definition. For me Hawke allowed as many options as any other or even Shepard due to the separation of the tone and action, yet also made him/her more present in the world itself. I can fully appreciate people liking the more subdued approach of the Inquisitor, but it doesn't make me any less of a roleplayer liking the Hawke approach.

 

Yeah i have to say my preference is for Hawke/SHep(Me1-2) approach. Gives me the ability to roleplay but stronger differences between choice delivery.

I liked the move towards greater control, and no characterising auto-dialogue in DAI but found myself somewhat disappointed by the subdued variations.

That said i'll fight tooth and nail for that approach if it is a simple binary of that or the awful ME3 approach.

[Aramintai]

I agree OP, Inquisitor seems like the blandest character in the series, they've focused too much on the companions again and totaly forgot to give some love to the protagonist. I think BioWare should either throw away that stupid wheel dialogue system out of the window and return to the old system with many more dialogue options (I can even live with silent protagonist, it makes roleplaying better) OR finally settle on one consistent and fleshed out "Shepard" type character for DA (Hawke was alright, I dunno why they ditched him\her on the sideway). Either way would be better than having everyman blank slate character whom I can't even roleplay properly because of the lack of options to do so. 

[Zombie_Alexis]

I'm sorry if you feel your Inquisitor is bland. My Inquisitor is awesome. She's smart, funny, incredibly kind and a total badass. She has surpassed my Warden as my favorite DA protagonist.

[Mathias]

In my opinion, this is what they need to do in the future to improve the protagonist and help us connect with him more.

 

1. Bring back the tone options. This'll help establish our character's personality, because The Inquisitor sure as hell didn't feel like he had one.

 

2. One voice actor per gender. I know it's nice to have the options, but I'd rather they direct their resources to having two really good voice actors with a lot of range, recording all different variations and tones of dialogue.

 

3. Write better lines for him. Make him charismatic! Seriously I cannot recall one moment in the game where the Inquisitor verbally owned a bad guy. I'm sure someone could point out to a couple, but I certainly can't think of any, which says something about the character.

 

4. Give him and us a more personal stake in the matter. And I'm sorry but The Inquisitor gets through things WAY too easy in this game. He's basically foiling Cory's plans at every turn. We need to see The Inquisitor fall, and have those dark moments. Those Virmire moments. No we don't necessarily need to have a companion die. But the villain should wins some victories, so we know what the stakes are, and therefore feel a stronger drive to push forward.

 

Just my two cents.

[Nefla]

I just want to be a campy evil douch-canoe again, is that so much to ask?