362 réponses à ce sujet

[ThreeF]

None of the DA protagonists are perfect.

 

I didn't found IQ to be bland although there were cases where I wish IQ was not standing around like a stick and I don't like the way the character was animated for the most part. I thought Hawke was rather restrictive character, i don't know if I would like to play Inquisitor with the same set up in dialogue/personality wheel, Hawke wasn't all that different from a pre-made characters other games use and that is something I do not  like. I can never see Warden as character, not  to  the same degree that I see Hawke and iQ.

[Il Divo]

BG2 as well, really. The conflict in it isn't world-spanning by any means. Worst case scenario is that the god of murder returns. He isn't going to destroy the world or anything, just return to it.

 

Good point. Really, from KotOR onward is when we start getting the "Save the World" premise moving. And every Bioware game has followed suit. 

[Aimi]

For real? Oh man, I can't see that sitting well for some people. 
 
Not to mention, the writers seem to really enjoy torturing Hawke, given what happens to his family. Now murder every (surviving) companion on top of it? It really would drive the "Hawke is helpless" theme home. 

I don't know about 'every' surviving companion. I don't even, technically, know that they were planning on killing off any of them, just that Gaider's wording implied it, and he was being quite vague.

Unfortunately, now that his Tumblr has been taken down, I can't find the source.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Hawke was the best DA protagonist in terms of personality. The Warden was silent and the Inquisitor is a little dull.

Unfortunately Hawke also had had the weakest story, the weakest setting, and was in the weakest game.

Disagree regarding story. I prefer Hawke's story to that of the Warden and I'm iffy on whether I prefer the Inq's story or not. Only thing that DA2 was truly lacking IMO was presentation and polish. Everything else gets top marks from me. Frankly I consider DA2 to be a miracle considering its development time.

[jlb524]

where did you get that?
I figured they would go the ME2 route the DA II companions would only appear in cameos
Hawke would get the companions we have now and pursue new romances ( Cassandra)

ME had a lot of complaints about that.

I don't think it was handled well. They benched most ME1 comps for new ones in ME2 and then benched all those ones in ME3.

Killing everyone (NWN2 style) would solve that problem.

[KaiserShep]

All of this has happened before, and will happen again. Commander Shepard was considered a plank, then Hawke was criticized as bland and lifeless.

 

Not sure I agree with this bit. I'm too used to every Bioware game treating me as last of the "something" or otherwise some sort of messiah figure to really buy into the idea that the problem is the game dictates my character is important.

 

Really, Baldur's Gate 1 and Dragon Age II are the only games that really stands out to me as being a situation where the PC's identity doesn't make him some sort of "save the world" figure, at least to start with. 

 

The only thing that Inquisition is a bit more heavy-handed with is that here you actually have people referring to you as a Prophet.Messiah/whatever where as other Bioware games usually employ some other title "Spirit Monk" or "Grey Warden". 

 

Heck at the ME trilogy's midway point, I had settled into the whole Shepard-is-the-specialest idea. I mean, some crazy superspy spends a celestial f***-ton of money to resurrect this character from the dead, and since then this one space marine is a gun-toting balm for every woe in the galaxy.

 

in Origins the races were implemented well
and it made sense that even a dwarf or elf could be the Warden (from a lore perspective)
in Inquisition it feels like bad fan service that makes 0 sense

 

In the main game, this worked, but in Awakening, it became a bit of a stretch. I mean, a Dalish or City Elf running the Arling of Amaranthine? Fetch my qamek, Seamus! I never asked for this.

[Aimi]

For real? Oh man, I can't see that sitting well for some people. 
 
Not to mention, the writers seem to really enjoy torturing Hawke, given what happens to his family. Now murder every (surviving) companion on top of it? It really would drive the "Hawke is helpless" theme home. 

  

I don't know about 'every' surviving companion. I don't even, technically, know that they were planning on killing off any of them, just that Gaider's wording implied it, and he was being quite vague.

Unfortunately, now that his Tumblr has been taken down, I can't find the source.

 
FOUND IT

It was indeed a difficult progress to let go of the DA2 expansion’s story. I mean, we never got very far past the planning stage, so I’m well aware that by the time it got to release it would undoubtedly have changed significantly — perhaps even to my great disappointment. Even so, it’s still hard to avoid thinking of what-might-have-been.

So you’ll have to forgive me if I say I never intend to go into detail on it. For my sake as well as the sake of fans, many of whom lack my perspective on such projects — if it’s hard for me, what might it be like for them?

Though they should be happy, to be perfectly frank. The ending we had planned for the expansion was brutal, insofar as some of their favorite characters are concerned…which would have been delightful for us writers, but maybe not so much for them. Maybe it’s better this way.

Or not. Whatever the case, I’ll just say that some basic plots were carried over, and naturally changed as the context for them changed. The Temple of Mythal is a good example. Beyond that, I’ll leave it to your imagination.

 

In the main game, this worked, but in Awakening, it became a bit of a stretch. I mean, a Dalish or City Elf running the Arling of Amaranthine? Fetch my qamek, Seamus! I never asked for this.

Easily the best part of the expansion.

[Masque]

I don't understand why DA2's dialogue system is considered superior to DAI's. They're the same thing, with the only exception being the icons on the wheel are missing. 

 

Top - diplomatic 

Middle - sarcastic 

Bottom - aggressive

 

The DAI protagonist can spout off some amusing stuff if you so choose. He/She can even break out the "well, sh*t" comment that Hawke fans love so much.

[Il Divo]

Honestly, I miss the tone icons. There have been a few occasions where I chose something that seemed sarcastic only for my Inquisitor to repeat them with a straight face.

 

I'm not sure why they decided to include some tone icons, but omit others. 

[KaiserShep]

Man, the idea of most if not all of the DA2 companions meeting grisly ends in the Exalted March is really intriguing, yet I want it as much as I'd want to have my eyes taped open while playing Desert Bus for 12 hours straight.

 

If it was just Merrill, Fenris and Anders I wouldn't complain though.

[Herr Uhl]

Man, the idea of most if not all of the DA2 companions meeting grisly ends in the Exalted March is really intriguing, yet I want it as much as I'd want to have my eyes taped open while playing Desert Bus for 12 hours straight.

 

It could make Varric's seeming survivors guilt more interesting.

[Al Foley]

I have a hard time with this because again, I feel the opposite.  The Inquisitor may not have been Hawke in terms of role playing protagonist but, I have had a very fun time role playing him.  I found myself lauging and snorting and just barely able to contain myself several times, there have been few times where my Inquisitor was not able to make a decision that I did not want to chose and felt like it matched their character and their arc, and a couple of times it was because I hijacked the poor guy.  

I wrote this in response to a similar comment yesterday, so I'm going to copy-paste my thoughts here as I sense the relevance:

But that is exactly what happened with the Warden, to me.  The Warden was virtually told us they were a big bad arse within just a few hours of starting the story and then did not progress from there, and the player had little opprotunity to decide elsewise.  Indeed I feel this is the problem with most RPG protagonists from the Witcher to the Dragonborn to Commander Shepard and even to the Inquisitor.  I think the only character who we have not been told was the bad arse chosen savior of the universe was Hawke.  Granted this does not prevent me from relating to the other characters mentioned, just I believe this made Hawke the most relatable.  

[Rawgrim]

Didn't the first trailer for DA:I show Varric weeping over a corpse? Might be some cut content right there.

[Akrabra]

Didn't the first trailer for DA:I show Varric weeping over a corpse? Might be some cut content right there.

Think that was the Crestwood situation, where you had to choose between your fortress and the village. Varric was supposed to be broken up over it if you didn't choose the village to save. 

[Cheviot]

In the main game, this worked, but in Awakening, it became a bit of a stretch. I mean, a Dalish or City Elf running the Arling of Amaranthine? Fetch my qamek, Seamus! I never asked for this.

It makes the conspiracy against the protag make even more sense.  The idea of an Elf running the Arling, or even being someone they have to defer to, would not be something the aristos would be fans of.

[Fiery Phoenix]

But that is exactly what happened with the Warden, to me.  The Warden was virtually told us they were a big bad arse within just a few hours of starting the story and then did not progress from there, and the player had little opprotunity to decide elsewise.  Indeed I feel this is the problem with most RPG protagonists from the Witcher to the Dragonborn to Commander Shepard and even to the Inquisitor.  I think the only character who we have not been told was the bad arse chosen savior of the universe was Hawke.  Granted this does not prevent me from relating to the other characters mentioned, just I believe this made Hawke the most relatable.  

It's actually not, though. The Warden started out differently depending on your chosen race/background combination, and you weren't hailed as a Big Badass Hero right off the bat. You had to prove yourself along the way; you never had any super powers that set you apart from others. You start from 0. The Inquisitor doesn't start from 0.

[KaiserShep]

Didn't the first trailer for DA:I show Varric weeping over a corpse? Might be some cut content right there.

I had assumed that this was the cut Crestwood content, but who knows. It seemed like some of the images were just content made specifically for a trailer, like Morrigan's creepy walking toward the camera thing.

[Rawgrim]

Think that was the Crestwood situation, where you had to choose between your fortress and the village. Varric was supposed to be broken up over it if you didn't choose the village to save. 

 

Ahh I remember that bit. They told us it was in the game, two days before release.

[Nohvarr]

It's actually not, though. The Warden started out differently depending on your chosen race/background combination, and you weren't hailed as a Big Badass Hero right off the bat. You had to prove yourself along the way; you never had any super powers that set you apart from others. You start from 0. The Inquisitor doesn't start from 0.

But being in the Grey Wardens kind of is a Superpower. You are a member of an Organization with a reputation for ending Blights, that has treaties with them they can use to demand the help of nations. It's not as flashy as a glowing hand....but it's useful none the less.

[Al Foley]

It's actually not, though. The Warden started out differently depending on your chosen race/background combination, and you weren't hailed as a Big Badass Hero right off the bat. You had to prove yourself along the way; you never had any super powers that set you apart from others. You start from 0. The Inquisitor doesn't start from 0.

I think the Inquisitor started off worse then the Warden.  From Prisoner to Hero of Thedas.  And you had to prove yourself, quite readily, for most of the first act always facing suspicion and fear from even some of your own companions.  The Warden, in context, was able to gain their power and position by the end of what was essentially the prolog.  

[Ranadiel Marius]

I don't understand why DA2's dialogue system is considered superior to DAI's. They're the same thing, with the only exception being the icons on the wheel are missing.

Top - diplomatic
Middle - sarcastic
Bottom - aggressive

The DAI protagonist can spout off some amusing stuff if you so choose. He/She can even break out the "well, sh*t" comment that Hawke fans love so much.

The complaint isn't the dialogue system so much as the Inq delivers most of their lines.....dryly? I mean occasionally you get hints of personality like my Inq frequently teasing Cassandra in auto dialogue, but for some people there just is no emotion to the Inq's delivery. Didn't bug me personally, but I can certainly see it.

[line_genrou]

Because there's almost no role play in DA anymore

You have an established character created by the devs and you try so  so very hard to give him/her personality, but the game doesn't help with its limited dialogue options and behaviors

[Fiery Phoenix]

But being in the Grey Wardens kind of is a Superpower. You are a member of an Organization with a reputation for ending Blights, that has treaties with them they can use to demand the helpof nations. It's not as flashy as a glowing hand....but it's useful none the less.

Of course, but that was a privilege you actually earned. You saw it all play it before you. You partook in the buildup to it. You know what is going on and why you are doing what you're doing.

 

By contrast, you literally do none of the above with the Inquisitor. You are simply handed over a superhero and told to go save the world. It's hard to care for someone from such a limited perspective.

[Rawgrim]

Of course, but that was a privilege you actually earned. You saw it all play it before you. You partook in the buildup to it. You know what is going on and why you are doing what you're doing.

 

By contrast, you literally do none of the above with the Inquisitor. You are simply handed over a superhero and told to go save the world. It's hard to care for someone from such a limited perspective.

 

True. And a part from the Haven incident, which is pretty much just a way to introduce the villain, you suffer zero setbacks in the game either. And the badguy doesn't resist your efforts in any way. He lets you stop his plans one by one.

 

Loghain, on the other hand, did his best to stop you at every turn.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I think the Inquisitor started off worse then the Warden.  From Prisoner to Hero of Thedas.  And you had to prove yourself, quite readily, for most of the first act always facing suspicion and fear from even some of your own companions.  The Warden, in context, was able to gain their power and position by the end of what was essentially the prolog.  

My point is you never see any of that play out in-game (at least not to any appreciable degree) That, in my opinion, is a huge part of what makes you care for a protagonist. With the Warden, you are able to see and play as them when they're just a normal person in their mansion/clan/neighborhood. You get to be introduced to them.

 

While it's true that the Inquisitor was a prisoner before achieving Hero status, we have no way of relating to that experience as we were never given the opportunity to explore their character prior to that milestone.