362 réponses à ce sujet

[BraveVesperia]

in Origins the races were implemented well
and it made sense that even a dwarf or elf could be the Warden (from a lore perspective)
in Inquisition it feels like bad fan service that makes 0 sense

There were still occasions where it wasn't. Like nobody caring that an elf/dwarf/mage is deciding the future of their country at the Landsmeet. Blight or no Blight, that seems hard to believe. Then in Awakening, no one is fussed that their Arl/Arlessa is one.

 

Dwarf and Qunari have less content/relevance in DAI than I'd like, but I don't think the races were actually implemented worse than in DAO. In DAO, being a Warden apparently makes everyone not care about your race. In DAI, having a glowy hand makes everyone not care about your race. For me, what DAI lacks is the personal feel of the origin stories, where race is concerned.

[BioWareM0d13]

Gaider put a post on his now-defunct Tumblr in response to fan clamor about what Exalted March would've been like. He stated that some elements were retained in various forms (e.g. the Temple of Mythal) and some were axed entirely, and that a lot of characters wouldn't have come out of it all that well (if at all), something he suggested that is fun for the writers but not fun at all for the fans.

 

I think that depends on the fans. If previous debates about killable companions are anything to go by, I think the fans are about evenly divided on whether or not they want it.

 

Personally I'm against all companion characters in all DA (or Mass Effect games) being invulnerable just by virtue of being companion characters. That isn't to say that you can't have a game or two where they all make it, just that every Bioware game shouldn't turn out that way. The devs shouldn't be afraid to throw a Virmire our way, or to occasionally go George RR Martin and strike down a beloved character with the the Pen of Mercilessness +20.

[Poledo]

It's a good first run with a fully voice acted game. It can only improve from here is how I look at it. I'd definitely love to see some diversity and options to play an intelligent and evil character rather than just being able to select replies to people to just be a douche.

[MoonDrummer]

Sarcastic Hawke was funny, but he gave me the impression that at the end of the day he curled up in a corner and cried himself to sleep, lying in a puddle of his own p*ss.

[Al Foley]

My point is you never see any of that play out in-game (at least not to any appreciable degree) That, in my opinion, is a huge part of what makes you care for a protagonist. With the Warden, you are able to see and play as them when they're just a normal person in their mansion/clan/neighborhood. You get to be introduced to them.

 

While it's true that the Inquisitor was a prisoner before achieving Hero status, we have no way of relating to that experience as we were never given the opportunity to explore their character prior to that milestone.

Perhaps.  This still seems to be a problem for both characters though.  And really I had an easier time relating to my first Male Inquisitor then my first male Cousland.  

[Rawgrim]

Sarcastic Hawke was funny, but he gave me the impression that at the end of the day he curled up in the corner and cried himself to sleep, lying in a puddle of his own p*ss.

 

That should be allowed, if you spend your days killing demons and dragons etc. No shame in puddles later on.

[Aimi]

I think that depends on the fans. If previous debates about killable companions are anything to go by, I think the fans are about evenly divided on whether or not they want it.
 
Personally I'm against all companion characters in all DA (or Mass Effect games) being invulnerable just by virtue of being companion characters. That isn't to say that you can't have a game or two where they all make it, just that every Bioware game shouldn't turn out that way. The devs shouldn't be afraid to throw a Virmire our way, or to occasionally go George RR Martin and strike down a beloved character with the the Pen of Mercilessness +20.

Not my words, but his, from the quoted blog post.

As for my own opinion, I also don't think character death should be off limits, because that would be silly and presumptuous. But most of the time people advocate for previous-character death on these forums, it's mostly just bizarre bloodthirst and rage at perceived slights dealt to them by that character, which is far more offputting than the notion that maybe the writers should just leave the characters to their own game and move on to the ones in the next one while letting the fanfiction writers have their thing.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Perhaps.  This still seems to be a problem for both characters though.  And really I had an easier time relating to my first Male Inquisitor then my first male Cousland.  

Out of curiosity, what did you think of Hawke?

 

I personally maintain that Hawke is the most relatable, organic protagonist in the series, followed by the Warden and then the Inquisitor.

[KaiserShep]

Loghain, on the other hand, did his best to stop you at every turn.

 

Loghain was a chump who just paid some random fools to go after you. I sent his lackeys in Lothering running, I got the assassin his buddy hired to work for ME, and killed his guys trying to get into Orzammar. All the while, I was shopping for stuff in Denerim with nary a hiccup, took a field trip to deal with a bit of his civil war, and slaughtered the Tevinter mages in league with his colleague. The only time I ever had any considerable difficulty was deciding to fight Cauthrien rather than surrender. Heck gaining favor with the nobles wasn't hard, because Loghain allowed Howe to be dick extraordinaire and leave an orgy of damning evidence and shenanigans to work against him.

[Antergaton]

Warden was unvoiced so you could add the character using the dialogue options. 

 

Hawke had specific personality options when speaking.

 

Inquisitor doesn't, essentially they are a blank state character because they have a voice but not personality options. It limits how they can come across.

[Rawgrim]

Loghain was a chump who just paid some random fools to go after you. I sent his lackeys in Lothering running, I got the assassin his buddy hired to work for ME, and killed his guys trying to get into Orzammar. All the while, I was shopping for stuff in Denerim with nary a hiccup, took a field trip to deal with a bit of his civil war, and slaughtered his Tevinter mages. The only time I ever had any considerable difficulty was deciding to fight Cauthrien rather than surrender. Heck gaining favor with the nobles wasn't hard, because Loghain allowed Howe to be dick extraordinaire and leave an orgy of damning evidence and shenanigans to work against him.

 

Doesn't matter. He actually did something to try and counter you. Several times. Cory did nothing.

[MoonDrummer]

Loghain was a chump who just paid some random fools to go after you. I sent his lackeys in Lothering running, I got the assassin his buddy hired to work for ME, and killed his guys trying to get into Orzammar. All the while, I was shopping for stuff in Denerim with nary a hiccup, took a field trip to deal with a bit of his civil war, and slaughtered the Tevinter mages in league with his colleague. The only time I ever had any considerable difficulty was deciding to fight Cauthrien rather than surrender. Heck gaining favor with the nobles wasn't hard, because Loghain allowed Howe to be dick extraordinaire and leave an orgy of damning evidence and shenanigans to work against him.

Its the thought that counts

[KaiserShep]

I appreciate Loghain's character, but he felt no more a participant than Corypheus throughout most of the game, especially considering that it was actually Howe who was doing a lot of wheeling and dealing, setting bounties and rubbing elbows with rotten people.

Warden: I'd like to buy this apple.

 

NPC: Teyrn Loghain wishes you die instead!

 

[kills NPC; goes back to camp to hit on Leliana]

[MoonDrummer]

I appreciate Loghain's character, but he felt no more a participant than Corypheus throughout most of the game, especially considering that it was actually Howe who was doing a lot of wheeling and dealing, setting bounties and rubbing elbows with rotten people.

I'm replaying origins atm and I feel that Loghain has a far larger presence than Cornflakes. We get cutscenes and laackies that he sends to die on me. 

 

I don''t think Log ever manhandled me, so Cornflakes has that going for him I suppose. 

[Masque]

The complaint isn't the dialogue system so much as the Inq delivers most of their lines.....dryly? I mean occasionally you get hints of personality like my Inq frequently teasing Cassandra in auto dialogue, but for some people there just is no emotion to the Inq's delivery. Didn't bug me personally, but I can certainly see it.

 

And that I can kinda sorta agree with but it's a matter of perspective I suppose. I'll admit I'm a bit biased because I do like the Inq better than Hawke but I think the Warden's personality was the most interesting. (Even without VA.) 

[line_genrou]

I appreciate Loghain's character, but he felt no more a participant than Corypheus throughout most of the game, especially considering that it was actually Howe who was doing a lot of wheeling and dealing, setting bounties and rubbing elbows with rotten people.

Warden: I'd like to buy this apple.

 

NPC: Teyrn Loghain wishes you die instead!

 

[kills NPC; goes back to camp to hit on Leliana]

Except that all you had was another warden and a party consisting of random individuals, your order was destroyed and you had to end a Blight and stop the country from crumbling into civil war. You were not a badass herald of andraste with a super power to close freaking rifts that lead to another dimension where there's a city that, yes, you could enter into physically and become a god.

[Aimi]

Doesn't matter. He actually did something to try and counter you. Several times. Cory did nothing.

Corypheus invades Haven and trashes your stronghold...

I appreciate Loghain's character, but he felt no more a participant than Corypheus throughout most of the game, especially considering that it was actually Howe who was doing a lot of wheeling and dealing, setting bounties and rubbing elbows with rotten people.
Warden: I'd like to buy this apple.
 
NPC: Teyrn Loghain wishes you die instead!
 
[kills NPC; goes back to camp to hit on Leliana]

I don't appreciate Loghain's character, because essentially all his competence was informed and all his incompetence was demonstrated.

[Nohvarr]

Of course, but that was a privilege you actually earned. You saw it all play it before you. You partook in the buildup to it. You know what is going on and why you are doing what you're doing.

Actually going to have to disagree....you became Warden because Duncan visited your homestead, Human, mage, elf etc Duncan is the deciding factor, and it is the name 'Grey Warden' that opens doors for you.

 

By contrast, you literally do none of the above with the Inquisitor. You are simply handed over a superhero and told to go save the world. It's hard to care for someone from such a limited perspective.

 

Going to have to disagree again. Cassandra invites you to help the Inquisition (possibly at sword point) during the opening chapters of the game. You are not the leader just a highly effective agent/figure to ralley around. It's not until you prove yourself by allying with the Mages or The Templars and then Standing against Corpheyus at Haven that you officially lead the Inquisition.

[Al Foley]

Out of curiosity, what did you think of Hawke?

 

I personally maintain that Hawke is the most relatable, organic protagonist in the series, followed by the Warden and then the Inquisitor.

I loved Hawke, I think Hawke is the single best role playing character that has ever been conceived and that I have played or know about because they are one of the few characters who actually has a legitimate story arc and character arc.  Most RPG characters don't have an arc aside from what the player can 'headcanon' and come up with on their own, and while that is a powerful way of relating to and building a character, you could still do it with Hawke and Hawke would have a legitimate reason for growing on their own.  They went from a simple refuge, to rich and important, to Champion.  And I can see Dragon Age 2 simply being a set up for Hawke's crowning as Inquisitor in certain contexts...but that was never meant to be.  

 

I really think BioWare tried to do this with the Inquisitor, and I think it even came off, after all the Inquisitor does go on a bit of thier own journey in the game...not becoming the Inquisitor until act 2.  Not learning the truth about themselves halfway through the game.  Keeps on learning to use the Mark.  But, it did come off as a pale imitation.  I liked them, but nowhere near as Hawke.  

 

Doesn't matter. He actually did something to try and counter you. Several times. Cory did nothing.

Cory was doing things the entire came you could not trip over a root in the main campaign without Cory doing anything.  Sure, you could counter those plans easily, but I feel the same towards Loghain. 

[KaiserShep]

Except that all you had was another warden and a party consisting of random individuals, your order was destroyed and you had to end a Blight and stop the country from crumbling into civil war. You were not a badass herald of andraste with a super power to close freaking rifts that lead to another dimension where there's a city that, yes, you could enter into physically and become a god.

This means that the Warden was relatively easy pickings. If Loghain was really committed to the cause of finding and destroying any remaining Grey Wardens, there would be roving patrols of well-armed soldiers searching the countryside, and spies watching any nearby towns or cities to watch out for anything worth noting. I can freely wander around Denerim's market square with no problem, even though Howe is apparently sitting pretty in the Arl of Denerim's estate. Do I streak across the gates to get his attention?

[MoonDrummer]

Corypheus invades Haven and trashes your stronghold...
 

And then we don't see him again until the second last mission. And I was honestly more annoyed about being manhandled than Haven being destroyed.

[line_genrou]

This means that the Warden was relatively easy pickings. If Loghain was really committed to the cause of finding and destroying any remaining Grey Wardens, there would be roving patrols of well-armed soldiers searching the countryside, and spies watching any nearby towns or cities to watch out for anything worth noting. I can freely wander around Denerim's market square with no problem, even though Howe is apparently sitting pretty in the Arl of Denerim's estate. Do I streak across the gates to get his attention?

I don't think he thought two wardens would go that far. He didn't know about the grey warden treaties either.

[Aimi]

And then we don't see him again until the second last mission. And I was honestly more annoyed about being manhandled than Haven being destroyed.

The only times we see Loghain are at Ostagar and at the Landsmeet, unless you recruit him. Other than that, all we get are three cutscenes that shatter immersion - "how could the player have known about this???" - and which were rightly castigated by many fans when Origins came out.

[Hazegurl]

I loved Hawke, by far the best PC and I feel more for the deadpan Warden than I do the IQ.  I personally would have liked it if the IQ and DAI was a mixture of DAO and DA2 in terms of development, characterization, et al.  The Warden was running for his life during most of Origins but he was a special snowflake that won most of his battles, although I do enjoy that he could be beaten and thrown in jail. A good middle ground would be to have the IQ in the same predicament but make him lose a bit more than the Warden, like Hawke. Just not as much. 

 

BW also should have cut Dwarves out. Sorry Dwarf fans but a Dwarf possessing a magic fade controlling anchor is stupid. It would also make sense to have a Qunari and Elf PC if the IQ is being chased down for the Divine's death. Instead in DAI everyone is bowing before you ten minutes into the freaking game.

 

Loghain and Howe were better villains than Cory but Kirkwall was a much better villain than both. lol! I would have liked it if Cory was more active like Loghain and Howe and actually kick the IQ's ass on occasion like Kirkwall did Hawke. 

[MoonDrummer]

The only times we see Loghain are at Ostagar and at the Landsmeet, unless you recruit him. Other than that, all we get are three cutscenes that shatter immersion - "how could the player have known about this???" - and which were rightly castigated by many fans when Origins came out.

Meh I didn't mind, it gave me an insight into him that I didn't get with Cornflakes.