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EA feels their games are too hard


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#76
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luism wrote: "I'm sure they can find a way make games easier/simpler to play without having to strip them down to bare bones."

 ...

But, but. that would require more thinking on the part of the developers.

 

Well, now ... they are a smart bunch! They have successfully studied IT-sciences at the university or other sciences. And I would be shocked if they did not want the exact same evolution themselves! They have the brains, the passion and the interest, the skill and the experience to "get the show on the road" that satisfies everyone. I believe that!

Sounds to good to be true? I believe in their talent. But they would have to ... get off their asses and DO IT! That would require some sort of commitment and for EA to allow it ... That last part is the trickiest - I think! EA would have to understand, that this would benefit everyone - including their shareholders!

"If you want to sell cars ... make sure they are capable of driving!" ... "Make sure your games are able to attract gamers!"

Damn! Why can these folks from EA not simply do mobile games and leave the grown-ups in the AAA-industry alone. They are just a bunch of dimwitted bullies - that's all ...



#77
MrSnoozer

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I don't do this to defend anyone but the majority of publishers probably want to reach as big a gaming crowd as possible. Unfortunately, the flash/mobile/tablet/social media site game crowd is getting really huge. I say unfortunately because the type of game catering to such (especially new) platforms is typically not the kind that takes longer or is more elaborate, since it takes more time to play them if you do that and it's not really platforms with that in mind. And as natural progression they want to snare such players to get their games on other platforms too. also, of course, not all such design is bad; it's great if it actually improves UI to be 'simpler' without losing functionality.

 

Not sure how to to turn that trend, though. :( Sticking to the alternatives isn't so feasible when they are becoming so very few.

 

Its profitable because the amount of people needed to create said game is no where near as how many for a AAA title.

 

Although i don't think any game be it mobile or w/e has beaten GTA 5 on sales yet and its not even out on PC yet , not to mention league of legends which recently broke 1 billion mark for last year or CoD 10 billlion over 10yrs.  core Gamers still spend twice as much as casual , not including actual hardware purchasing power. Then you need to ask how many Games do casual players play? Core Gamers buy loads of titles all year round , my GF who plays clash of clans spends naught on it and is the only Game she plays. She spends her money on clothes and more clothes and shoes dear god shoes



#78
Sunbrow

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Thinking.... lets really make it easy for the cerebraly(not a word but go with it) challenged. In mass effect you would get a cue to right click or left click.  Bingo simple combat, streamlined, no key board, and those in a vegetative state will love it.  Oh and tic tac toe for puzzles and you get to color the war room map.  First quest would be to find the crayons.  The hardest part would be to type in your credit card # to order it (Tech support would have something to do).


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#79
Guest_Donkson_*

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Thinking.... lets really make it easy for the cerebraly(not a word but go with it) challenged. In mass effect you would get a cue to right click or left click.  Bingo simple combat, streamlined, no key board, and those in a vegetative state will love it.  Oh and tic tac toe for puzzles and you get to color the war room map.  First quest would be to find the crayons.  The hardest part would be to type in your credit card # to order it (Tech support would have something to do).


I predict that in around 15-20 years time, even THAT will be too hard.
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#80
Guest_Cyan Griffonclaw_*

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My nephew has the XB1 and he loved the game. He said it best, "It's the perfect fit for the XBOX. The joystick is completely mapped out and the game runs like an action game. Turn on or off your abilities and just play your way through."

 

I sat there in stunned silence. I wish I could be that happy about Inquisition. It blows on the PC. I'm still wavering between disbelief and anger on the depression cycle chart.



#81
Fade-Touched-in-the-head

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Whew! Finally read the article. It took me two hours to figure out how to work the link.
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#82
Guest_Donkson_*

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Whew! Finally read the article. It took me two hours to figure out how to work the link.


LOL. It must be a miracle that you could read it...

I mean, how does EA expect people to comprehend that article if people are so damn stupid and have to be adhered to... the hypocrisy.

#83
Rawgrim

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http://www.gadgethel...-paper-manuals/

 

So a few years ago EA decided to remove the manuals from their games, as seen in this article. Basically they remove the instructions. And now one of them pops up and claims people are having trouble learning how to play their games.

 

Stunning logic.


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#84
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http://www.gadgethel...-paper-manuals/
 
So a few years ago EA decided to remove the manuals from their games, as seen in this article. Basically they remove the instructions. And now one of them pops up and claims people are having trouble learning how to play their games.
 
Stunning logic.


LOL!

Maybe they thought the manuals were too hard to read.
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#85
In Exile

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http://www.gadgethel...-paper-manuals/

So a few years ago EA decided to remove the manuals from their games, as seen in this article. Basically they remove the instructions. And now one of them pops up and claims people are having trouble learning how to play their games.

Stunning logic.


EA has one of the most impressive histories of nonsense decisions of any modern corporation. Sure, others have done things that are dumber, but EA takes self-defeating nonsense to an art form.

Still, I'm not sure if manuals are the answers to propagating RPGs. The genre has a real issue with explaining complex mechanics in a way that's fun and interested in setting out to learn them. And not everyone that would really enjoy an RPG is necessarily aware they'd like this sort of gameplay. At some point you have to be introduced to it to like it. BG1 has fun combat once you learn D&D for example but it starts from the assumption you either want to learn D&D by reading a textbook or you're already familiar with it.

#86
Rawgrim

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EA has one of the most impressive histories of nonsense decisions of any modern corporation. Sure, others have done things that are dumber, but EA takes self-defeating nonsense to an art form.

Still, I'm not sure if manuals are the answers to propagating RPGs. The genre has a real issue with explaining complex mechanics in a way that's fun and interested in setting out to learn them. And not everyone that would really enjoy an RPG is necessarily aware they'd like this sort of gameplay. At some point you have to be introduced to it to like it. BG1 has fun combat once you learn D&D for example but it starts from the assumption you either want to learn D&D by reading a textbook or you're already familiar with it.

 

I mostly figured it out by trying and failing. But the game did have the d&d logo all over it, so it was clearly made for people who are into d&d. I can certainly see how BG can be overwhelming for new players - absolutely. But I think players who buy that game are the kind of players that wants a challenge like that (if they are new players).



#87
In Exile

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I mostly figured it out by trying and failing. But the game did have the d&d logo all over it, so it was clearly made for people who are into d&d. I can certainly see how BG can be overwhelming for new players - absolutely. But I think players who buy that game are the kind of players that wants a challenge like that (if they are new players).

But if you have no idea what D&D even means, it does you no good to have the logo. I bought BG1 way back when because it advertised its story. I was a kid at that point, which was just after I first played KoTOR (which on normal required 0 thought). Must have still been in grade school. Getting a textbook with the game wasn't particular helpful.

In hind sight, I understand that the design at the time was that you were expect to fail while learning the ropes. That harkens back to the old arcade style games and especially all the old gold box or say the Info-whatever text games. But that's pretty different design.

I played primarily FPS, adventure and RTS games (SP, which existed before EA obliterated Westwood, whixh is by far their greatest sin) before coming to RPGs. And each of those genres was intuitive in a way RPGs weren't. Sure an RTS in particular is more complex, but the basic mechanics make sense and don't require you to learn a very counterintuitive way of playing and thinking about combat (in terms of math and numbers, with the actual toons just being added but superflous graphical detail).

#88
pasmith31

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Well, when my fellow PC gamers can't even figure out the controls on DA:I... I understand why he says what he does.

I'm sure most people had no issues figuring out the pc controls, but like me I suspect very few PC gamers enjoyed using them.



#89
NasChoka

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Maybe thats their explanation if you don't finish a game. It's not because you didn't like it... ^_^


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#90
Bayonet Hipshot

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Well... this forum is divided in sects, you see.

Most people who argue against this hang out in Scuttlebutt and Story, Campaign and Characters while the people who aren't so keen on the game hang out in feedback. :lol: Occasionally one will venture into another's territory and start a gang war...

 

Yep. The Feedback & Suggestion sect is the sane one. The other side mostly talks about sex this, romance that, character shipping this, representation that, bla, bla, bla...

 

 

So basically he admits their games are being dumbed down. I wonder what certain people on these boards, that have been denying this bit, has to say about this?

 

I guess it will be something along the lines of "8x4=32 ! That's strategy, tactics & choices !" or "There is cross class combos, see this is tactical !" or "This game strikes a balance between DAO and DA2, it has tactical camera and action play !" or "You are taking this out of context, etc"

 

 

I am going to say something now that sounds controversial, strange and even perhaps terrible but I just have to, in light of things like this :-

 

I wished video gaming had never gone mainstream. I wished that the entire gaming community, from the gamers to the developers, was just a small fringe club like the Metal music community. I wished that we were just people who are just doing our own thing, not catering to any part of the mundane mediocrity that is the social masses and not giving a single f**k to what they think about video games or what they think about games being "difficult". 

 

I am not a Metal music fan but I have a close friend who is and looking at how that community works, I sincerely wished that gaming had gone down the same route. No dumbing down, no dilution, no neutering, no pointless sociopolitical crap, just gaming and if anyone have a problem with that, they can ****** off type of mentality. 


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#91
papercut_ninja

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Yep. The Feedback & Suggestion sect is the sane one. The other side mostly talks about sex this, romance that, character shipping this, representation that, bla, bla, bla...

 

 
 

 

I guess it will be something along the lines of "8x4=32 ! That's strategy, tactics & choices !" or "There is cross class combos, see this is tactical !" or "This game strikes a balance between DAO and DA2, it has tactical camera and action play !" or "You are taking this out of context, etc"

 

 

I am going to say something now that sounds controversial, strange and even perhaps terrible but I just have to, in light of things like this :-

 

I wished video gaming had never gone mainstream. I wished that the entire gaming community, from the gamers to the developers, was just a small fringe club like the Metal music community. I wished that we were just people who are just doing our own thing, not catering to any part of the mundane mediocrity that is the social masses and not giving a single f**k to what they think about video games or what they think about games being "difficult". 

 

I am not a Metal music fan but I have a close friend who is and looking at how that community works, I sincerely wished that gaming had gone down the same route. No dumbing down, no dilution, no neutering, no pointless sociopolitical crap, just gaming and if anyone have a problem with that, they can ****** off type of mentality. 

 

I`ll see your metal community and raise you a nickelback...



#92
Dreamer

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Maybe thats their explanation if you don't finish a game. It's not because you didn't like it... ^_^

 

This is my suspicion. Financials might (I don't know) be dipping behind the scenes and EA is setting themselves up with an excuse should they not meet next-quarter predictions. It would not surprise me in the least. When the board gets together and hears that EA didn't do as well as they expected, Mr. Games Are Too Hard can come out and say "We've been looking at lowering the bar to entry because our proprietary metrics are telling us games are too difficult--and that's why we're not seeing the numbers we'd like to see. It's not us. I promise."


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#93
Linkenski

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Yes it did because "streamlining" has been a constant focus for EA. Problem is that this statement is new and reflects on EA's currently new software. I hope Bioware can keep making their games challenging while respecting the policy of "easy to pick up and get right into" in the future though.

If Nintendo has Bioware their games would have redundant tutorials and hand holding all the way. At least EA still makes their games somewhat intuitive instead.

#94
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Yep. The Feedback & Suggestion sect is the sane one. The other side mostly talks about sex this, romance that, character shipping this, representation that, bla, bla, bla...
 
 
 
 
I guess it will be something along the lines of "8x4=32 ! That's strategy, tactics & choices !" or "There is cross class combos, see this is tactical !" or "This game strikes a balance between DAO and DA2, it has tactical camera and action play !" or "You are taking this out of context, etc"
 
 
I am going to say something now that sounds controversial, strange and even perhaps terrible but I just have to, in light of things like this :-
 
I wished video gaming had never gone mainstream. I wished that the entire gaming community, from the gamers to the developers, was just a small fringe club like the Metal music community. I wished that we were just people who are just doing our own thing, not catering to any part of the mundane mediocrity that is the social masses and not giving a single f**k to what they think about video games or what they think about games being "difficult". 
 
I am not a Metal music fan but I have a close friend who is and looking at how that community works, I sincerely wished that gaming had gone down the same route. No dumbing down, no dilution, no neutering, no pointless sociopolitical crap, just gaming and if anyone have a problem with that, they can ****** off type of mentality.


LOL. I'm guilty about the sex this, character that, blah blah blah... but it's for fun, yeah? :lol:

 

As for that second part...

 

I'm right into metal music, however, I stay well away from the "community" part and just listen to it cause I like it. Some aspects of metal have actually gone "mainstream" and "commercialised"... Metallica is a prime example. If you listen to their early work (pre-1990) as opposed to later work (post-1990) you will see a vast difference and an increased fanbase thanks to their dumbing down and commercialisation of their music. They were no longer a band that made amazing thrash metal, but rather a Nickelback type band... I have to zip my mouth when people ask me about what music I like, I say metal, they say, "Ooooh I like Metallica, they so kewl *list albums post 1990) then I go on to talk about their earlier work, they're like, "Wot." No idea what I'm on about! :lol: But that's all well and good, they can have their mediocrity...

 

I could write a novel, LOL. But the point is, metal has bred a vast amount of divisive sub-cultures. You have your emo, screamo, nu-metal, metalcore, etc... Sad part is, just about every band in these sub-genres become mediocre and commercialised and this happens after they release a really good album...

 

Now if you compare this to DA, as an example, I'll use (insert metalcore band in this space here ____) releases an album, with lots of growly vocals and what not... minimal singing in choruses (which is generally the way with metalcore bands) now after some considerable popularity, said metalcore band will then release a much softer album with less growly vocals, more corny lovey dovey singing in choruses, and in general, less blast beats, guitar solos, etc.. in a bid to appeal to a wider audience because people will often complain, "Ewww that sounds like sh*t." (Ironically, these same people will more often than not listen to Justin Bieber and think that is great. LMAO.)

 

See where I'm going? :lol:


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#95
TevinterSupremacist

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@Honourable Bigot

Yes.Yeeeeessssss.

 

On all fronts.

DA and metal.



#96
Joxer

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Basically, EA's masterplan is to dumb down games even more and produce games for lobotomized monkeys.

 

No challenge = no learning curve = no fun.

Sorry EA, but I won't be buying your games for dumbsters AKA virtual beggar Dungeon Keeper.


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#97
Meepichi

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http://forum.bioware...-hard-to-learn/

Seriously, if anything the game is too easy and I'm hardly a hardcore expert of the game.  It'd be nice if they actually consulted the people that play their games before coming to these conclusions.



#98
thebigbad1013

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I am not typically one to jump on the "Let's all hate EA bandwagon" (not that I particularly like them either, mind you) but reading this is certainly troubling in terms of what it could potentially mean for future BioWare games.



#99
Rawgrim

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I am not typically one to jump on the "Let's all hate EA bandwagon" (not that I particularly like them either, mind you) but reading this is certainly troubling in terms of what it could potentially mean for future BioWare games.

 

This is actually exactly what happened to Origin (the Bioware of the 80s\90s) after EA forced a takeover. The Ultima games were pretty much DA:O, but after EA took over they added more and more action elements, and even jumping puzzles (sound familiar?), and removed more and more rp elements. They rushed out half-done games in order to milk every drop out of a solid franchise, just like they are doing now.

 

EA's next DRM will be called Bioware, not Origin.


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#100
Frond

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Pretty sure he meant their yearly titles, sports/racing/sims/battlefield

I get it if that is what he means. FIFA2013 should have the same controls as FIFA2014. Same with Battlefiled 3/4