334 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Well, in fairness, there were clusters of spells BG that did exactly the same thing. The whole mess that is DnD dispelling, for example (lesser dispel, dispel, greater dispel, disjunction, etc., then breach, greater breach etc. etc. pp.) got implemented almost 1:1. One, or perhaps two spells (cleanse or however you want to name it plus possibly breach) with scaling resistance/saving throws per caster class, would have done just fine. Plus, BG is no shining example of good storytelling, quite the opposite, in fact (IMO).

That said though, while I also would not use the words "dumbed down", DA:I certainly is a regression. I agree that tactics is a prime example; you cannot honestly claim that the functionality we used to have in DA:O and DA:KW was useless or overkill. Even if some people did not need tactics, it was a great feature that should never have been reduced to the sorry state it's in now. I'd rather not have any tactics and some better generic AI (i.e. don't stand in bad stuff, don't stand directly in front of the dragon, etc.) than a mere semblance of having an impact on how companions behave while not directly controlled.

 

The "barrier" spells in BG blocks different things, though. Not all at once. There is a lot of tactics involved just by picking the right one for this and that kind of opponent.

[AlanC9]

It is dumbed down. Tactics is gone and replaced with button mashing.

I remember when Tactics were the prime example of how DAO was dumbed down, since now the game could play itself.

[Rawgrim]

I remember when Tactics were the prime example of how DAO was dumbed down, since now the game could play itself.

 

The player still had to make the choices when setting up the tactics. Usually that required trying and failing, as well as making updates to the tactics as the game progressed.

 

I think deep down you actually knew this.

[AlanC9]

I didn't say I believed it myself. That was just the Bioware forum B.S. flavor-of-the-month back then.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It is far too late for that. The BioWare we know and loved is gone. The founders left, many of the devs and producers left and what's left is saying yes to any stupid idea their marketing comes up with.

 

Hell, they told us they have one of the best QA departments in the industry... and look at the game. Look at it! How did -that- get past QA? So either their standards of competence are extremely low or someone up in the hierachy didn't listen to their QA department.

 

Save your money for new developers. The BioWare era has come to an end, they produce generic, boring and mediocre games to please EA's stockholders now.

 

Even if the old BioWare still existed, they couldn't publish games on their own. EA owns them.

 

Bioware remind me of horses.

 

Once upon a time, they used to be free roaming horses on the plains. They did whatever they wanted and whenever they wanted it. They set out to make role playing games with compelling stories, interesting lore, challenging combat and they did it.

 

Now, they are like the horses in Central Park in New York, with the blinders on, tethered to a carriage and crapping in a bucket.. forced to do the same dreary thing of ferrying mediocre mundanes around for money...Now, they are EA's b***h and as such...Instead of making games that have high quality, instead of making a game that adheres to their roots, instead of sticking to the dark fantasy core of a franchise...They make diluted neutered average fantasy game that is politically correct & "progressive" to make money...

 

I mean whatever happened to the dark, gritty Game-of-Thrones feel of Origins ? Whatever happened to the grounded gritty art style and design of Origins ? Whatever happened to the grounded combat and combat animations ? Whatever happened to desire demons ? Or brothels ? Or the sexism in Qunari culture which was magically whitewashed (Iron Bull is a cool character but I dislike him for this very reason) ? Whatever happened to actually equal romance content for all sexualities ? Whatever happen to multiple weapon types usage for rogues & warriors ? Where are the Origin stories that actually make us invested in our characters ? Whatever happened to freaking cities and deep roads ? Ever seen an role playing game with no cities ? Whatever happened to attractive characters ?

 

Instead...

 

We have overly flashy art style that clearly does not make one shred of sense in a dark grounded fantasy world. No more desire demons or brothels because someone might get offended. Sexist elements are whitewashed away to appease the politically correct masses. Every single class now have mage-esque MMO-ish combat and animations. The combat itself is a cheap Diablo knockoff. Everyone in Thedas now looks like the have horrid military hairstyles, the women look like anorexics and the Elves look like people from third world nations. Rogues & warriors now cannot use multiple weapon types without hassle. Origin stories are now relegated to pointless War Table missions. The Deep Roads is  meager surface section. Orlais is supposedly just a few square  blocks. 

 

[DragonAddict]

DAO has

 

 

- isometric view,

 

- optimized for the PC and console,

 

- many skills to chose from,

 

- select your attributes,

 

- storage chest,

 

- main campsite,

 

- chat with party characters

 

- buy gifts whenver you wished,

 

- not dumbed down,

 

- not simplified almost like for kids,

 

- not a hack and slash controller game,

 

- story line and plots were very well written

 

- good DLC's and expansion pack

 

- change armor, weapons and items between party characters on the fly

 

- no swearing

 

- tastefully done adult choices, not gay everything

 

- pet

 

- enchantment!!!

 

- useful side quests

 

- long game

 

- addictive with high replayability

 

- more for young adults and not kids

 

- gore, blood with a darker theme

 

 

This is part of a RPG game. DAI has none of these things....and we still call it a rpg.....

[Elhanan]

While I prefer DAO overall, this title is a fine improvement over DA2; a great story, but not as polished. And it has more replay value for me than ME2 and KOTOR; enjoy the story more than any in SWTOR.

Cannot say if it is as good as BG and the earlier games, but it a move in the right direction, IMO.

As for too difficult to learn, only if I were to try and take the background mechanics of DAO and attempt to play it as a PnP title. Other than that, no problems thus far.

[Hexoduen]

We cannot be talking about the same game. KoTOR has a queue which is the only tactical thing about it. You can't control character positions because you're stuck without a free camera or any basic isometric features. You don't really have any meaningful spells etc.

 

Compared to the default camera in Inquisition, the third-person point of view, I do believe KOTOR is more tactical and less button mashing. The queue is tactical yes, it makes it possible to plan ahead  And I also like the auto-attack in KOTOR since this emphasizes tactics instead of the execution itself

 

Please don't mention spells, while I agree the spells in Inquisition are definitely more interesting than those in KOTOR, I'm still not finished crying from the butchering of spells in Inquistion And why'd they have to ruin Willpower

 

Edit: I disagree with the spells in KOTOR not being meaningful, they are. But there are fewer spells, and so in Inquistion I use a bigger array of spells. Wish I could have more than 8 ability slots for them.

Modifié par Hexoduen, 08 février 2015 - 03:23 .

[Ncongruous]

If a game takes you two contiguous hours to learn, yes that is quite a long time. You shouldn't feel overwhelmed on the outset. Not many people enjoy climbing a steep cliff to reach understanding. Yet... I credit people with a vast amount of intuitive prowess. A keen desire to become better. You're all intelligent people, you really are. No sarcasm. You know how this forum works. You can take that experience and apply it to other forums. So when I hear a statement like "...average player probably spends two hours to learn how to play the most basic game", I'm thinking that who he is speaking about doesn't play games.

[Rizilliant]

Of all the reasons Inquisition is been mentioned to be dumbed down, i didnt see anyone mention the insane ease at which o beat it.. Theres no difficulty! Even in nightmare, its only difficult for the 1st 5hrs! As soon as you get a few lvls, and a piece of equipment, youre golden! There is no "Tactic".. The only tactic is barrier, barrier, barrier, guard, barrier, barrier, barriers, potion.. 

 

Oh, and in the beginning of the game.. Barrier, potion, potion, poition, bleeeeeeeeeeeeeehh!

 

2hrs is too long too learn a game? Pfft.. Evereyone says you have to play Inquisition for 10-15hrs for it "to get interesting".. Unfortunately, many quit long before that mark!

[Terodil]

Please don't mention spells, while I agree the spells in Inquisition are definitely more interesting than those in KOTOR, I'm still not finished crying from the butchering of spells in Inquistion And why'd they have to ruin Willpower

 

Uh... sorry, come again?

 

Off the top of my head, in KoTOR you had spells that could shoot lightning at stuff, you could bolster your defenses, elemental and force resistances, you could speed yourself up, you could slow enemies down, you could throw stuff, you could pull stuff, you could force choke stuff, you could disease stuff, you could heal stuff, you could lifedrain stuff, you could crowd control stuff for longer than 2.5s...

 

... and more importantly, all that was tied pretty neatly into the alignment system.

 

How are Inquisition spells more interesting? I have blue ouch, I have red ouch, I have a "magic" super-ouch, and the ubiquitious shield (aka anti-ouch) that solves everything. Uh. No.

 

I'll have the KoTOR spells please. They had flavour (in fact, they were iconic), they were implemented well and you could queue them.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Please don't mention spells, while I agree the spells in Inquisition are definitely more interesting than those in KOTOR, I'm still not finished crying from the butchering of spells in Inquistion And why'd they have to ruin Willpower

 

The force powers in KotOR were much more useful than the mage spells in DA:I. You had buffs, you had defense, you had CC, you had offense and you had a lot of passives. Oh, and you could use all of them no matter what.

 

I admit that I liked the gameplay of KotOR 2 a lot more, partly because they expanded the force powers.

[Rawgrim]

The force powers in KotOR were much more useful than the mage spells in DA:I. You had buffs, you had defense, you had CC, you had offense and you had a lot of passives. Oh, and you could use all of them no matter what.

 

I admit that I liked the gameplay of KotOR 2 a lot more, partly because they expanded the force powers.

 

Their effectiveness was also tied to the character's stats. And also the targets stats. In DA:I everything just works vs any enemy no matter what. Its like they are nothing but cannon fodder. Saving Throws is something I would very much like to be implemented into the DA combat system.

[Il Divo]

The force powers in KotOR were much more useful than the mage spells in DA:I. You had buffs, you had defense, you had CC, you had offense and you had a lot of passives. Oh, and you could use all of them no matter what.

 

I admit that I liked the gameplay of KotOR 2 a lot more, partly because they expanded the force powers.

 

Granted, I love Force Scream as much as the next dude, but KotOR 2's gameplay just became way too easy by the time I confronted my first Jedi Master. I could just set my PC on auto-attack with a couple Force Storm's thrown in  and I'll utterly annihilate every room. 

[sjsharp2011]

Argh...
 
Liked this part : 
 
So new players should do what every old player did , and LEARN......
 
everyone was a Noob at the beginning..geez
 

Hello Flemeth

I can understand to a point as I do find Origins a little too tough in places yet I can cope with DA2 and DAI just fine same with the ME series really unless you're experienced with RPG's the games can be hard to get on with. I'm not a very experienced RPG player so with ME I tend to leave the levelling up system on automatic. On Origins I find I don't level up as I should doing it this way and that it is best I do this manually if I'm to unlock the skills I need to survive and it can be quite complicated. I've only recently figured out how to do this right and that's mostly thanks to me getting the strategy guide for Origins. People shouldn't have to feel they've got to buy these books in order to master a game though imo. I do like Origins and it was an awesome idea of a gane and still is But I certainly feel that in certain places it could have been simplified

[Hexoduen]

Uh... sorry, come again?

 

Off the top of my head, in KoTOR you had spells that could shoot lightning at stuff, you could bolster your defenses, elemental and force resistances, you could speed yourself up, you could slow enemies down, you could throw stuff, you could pull stuff, you could force choke stuff, you could disease stuff, you could heal stuff, you could crowd control stuff for longer than 2.5s...

 

... and more importantly, all that was tied pretty neatly into the alignment system.

 

How are Inquisition spells more interesting? I have blue fire, I have red fire, I have a "magic" superpower, and the ubiquitious shield that solves everything. Uh. No.

 

I'll have the KoTOR spells please. They had flavour (in fact, they were iconic), they were implemented well and you could queue them.

 

Cranking up the difficulty in KOTOR while playing Consular I get the most out of the spells, and there are some great ones for sure (Force Wave ftw!). But truth be told I don't switch between that many different spells in any one playthrough of KOTOR, maybe I use about 5 of the roughly 15 spells, and then on the next playthrough I use 5 different and so forth.

 

Maybe 'Interesting' was the wrong word to use since I agree some of the spells in KOTOR are very well designed, but I find myself using more different spells in Inquistion, and in Inquisition I constantly need more than 8 ability slots for my spells, which is not the case for me in KOTOR.

 

Edit: In Exile wrote "meaningful", and this I disagree with. I do find the spells in KOTOR to be meaningful, I just don't switch as much between them as I do in Inquisition.

[Rawgrim]

You only need Barrier in DA:I. The rest you can do with button mashing.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Granted, I love Force Scream as much as the next dude, but KotOR 2's gameplay just became way too easy by the time I confronted my first Jedi Master. I could just set my PC on auto-attack with a couple Force Storm's thrown in  and I'll utterly annihilate every room. 

 

Yes, that was the other side of the problem. As soon as you reached Master level... either as Jedi or as Sith... you could take out vast hordes of enemies. The Trayus Academy should have been tense gauntlet of difficult encounters, instead you were able to stun the enemies through the door, then wipe them out with 2 clicks.

Still had fun playing though.

[Teligth]

Bioware remind me of horses.

 

Once upon a time, they used to be free roaming horses on the plains. They did whatever they wanted and whenever they wanted it. They set out to make role playing games with compelling stories, interesting lore, challenging combat and they did it.

 

Now, they are like the horses in Central Park in New York, with the blinders on, tethered to a carriage and crapping in a bucket.. forced to do the same dreary thing of ferrying mediocre mundanes around for money...Now, they are EA's b***h and as such...Instead of making games that have high quality, instead of making a game that adheres to their roots, instead of sticking to the dark fantasy core of a franchise...They make diluted neutered average fantasy game that is politically correct & "progressive" to make money...

 

I mean whatever happened to the dark, gritty Game-of-Thrones feel of Origins ? Whatever happened to the grounded gritty art style and design of Origins ? Whatever happened to the grounded combat and combat animations ? Whatever happened to desire demons ? Or brothels ? Or the sexism in Qunari culture which was magically whitewashed (Iron Bull is a cool character but I dislike him for this very reason) ? Whatever happened to actually equal romance content for all sexualities ? Whatever happen to multiple weapon types usage for rogues & warriors ? Where are the Origin stories that actually make us invested in our characters ? Whatever happened to freaking cities and deep roads ? Ever seen an role playing game with no cities ? Whatever happened to attractive characters ?

 

Instead...

 

We have overly flashy art style that clearly does not make one shred of sense in a dark grounded fantasy world. No more desire demons or brothels because someone might get offended. Sexist elements are whitewashed away to appease the politically correct masses. Every single class now have mage-esque MMO-ish combat and animations. The combat itself is a cheap Diablo knockoff. Everyone in Thedas now looks like the have horrid military hairstyles, the women look like anorexics and the Elves look like people from third world nations. Rogues & warriors now cannot use multiple weapon types without hassle. Origin stories are now relegated to pointless War Table missions. The Deep Roads is  meager surface section. Orlais is supposedly just a few square  blocks. 

 

Yeah the elf redesign still pisses me off. Also I hate i can't be a dual wielding warrior anymore. Easily the worst set of class options. For a game with so many options they limited the hell out of us character class wise.

[Wulfram]

I thought KotOR 1 and KotOR 2 both had pretty rubbish mechanics. KotOR at least didn't get in the way of the story, though KotOR 2 had all those annoying occasions when you got stuck playing some annoying side character.

[Hexoduen]

I thought KotOR 1 and KotOR 2 both had pretty rubbish mechanics. KotOR at least didn't get in the way of the story, though KotOR 2 had all those annoying occasions when you got stuck playing some annoying side character.

 
I loved those occasions playing as the side character, just as in DA Origins

[Angry_Elcor]

Boy, people sure are overreacting to a couple of out of context comments by executives.

[Il Divo]

I thought KotOR 1 and KotOR 2 both had pretty rubbish mechanics. KotOR at least didn't get in the way of the story, though KotOR 2 had all those annoying occasions when you got stuck playing some annoying side character.

 

Yeah, that got annoying real quick. The big problem (for me) was that KotOR 1 and 2 can be handled pretty easily without really speccing your party members. So the few times the game suddenly throws them at you is pretty jarring, especially since there's very little character content. (Ex: The Twi'lek twins on Nar Shadaa as Atton). I just hide behind the bar counter and snipe them from there. 

[Fireblader70]

I wouldn't have paid much attention to this... guy, unless I hadn't already seen his words in action. There are now three franchises I used to go nuts for which I suddenly feel ambivalent towards. And every single time, it's always been about making things simpler. More 'accessible'. Mass Effect got lucky, only because it had lovable characters and guns, glorious guns. Didn't quite work out the same way with Dragon Age 2 and The Sims 4.

 

Continuing to gut features and add nothing in their place just reeks of a lack of common sense.

[Draining Dragon]

I just realized something interesting. The progression of DAO to DAI is very similar to the progression from Morrowind to Skyrim.

1. DAO and Morrowind are both old-school RPGs which use tabletop-style rules with RNG. They are widely hailed by fans as the best in their franchises.

2. DA2 and Oblivion removed the tabletop elements of their franchises in favor of fast-paced action. This was done to increase mainstream appeal. They are also widely considered to be the worst of three games (yes, I know Elder Scrolls actually has Arena and Daggerfall first, but those aren't as well known).

3. DAI and Skyrim were dumbed down even more to appeal to more gamers. They were both fairly successful.