140 réponses à ce sujet

[orskar]

AW takes ages to kill anything on perilous, the only class who takes longer for me is keeper. They're only good for invincible tanking and in which case I'd say buff guard on warriors so they can tank just as well (ignoring a nice legionnaire ability spam with cooldown bonus on crits)

 

It's just that the invincibility makes solo'ing with it easy. but it's the same thing with KE in single player, yes nothing can kill you but every fight will take ages. 4 x your 120~ staff (400% damage) and counting a mage's lower atk% , is not going to out-damage a rogue with huge attack % or a reaver rampage, or an elementalist spell spam or a templar nuke, or an archer, or an assassin, etc. the only way AW gets great dps is by dumping PotA and managing to combo a mob. If there is anyone else in the room with acceptable dps, prepare to get all your kills stolen unless you rush ahead like a jerk.

 

I say this as someone who frequently abuses AW with fade cloak, step and chain lightning. kills take way too long and it's only "good" because your invincibility means you can carry a bad room and solo.

[smooth_operator]

AW takes ages to kill anything on perilous, the only class who takes longer for me is keeper. They're only good for invincible tanking and in which case I'd say buff guard on warriors so they can tank just as well (ignoring a nice legionnaire ability spam with cooldown bonus on crits)

 

Why are you saying this?  It's not true. The better staff you have, the more multiplied your melee attack becomes. 

[orskar]

Why are you saying this?  It's not true. The better staff you have, the more multiplied your melee attack becomes. 

have you really played either of the following with similar level gear as your AW?:

assassin

archer

elementalist

hunter

reaver

templar

[smooth_operator]

 

have you really played either of the following with similar level gear as your AW?:

assassin

archer

elementalist

hunter

reaver

templar

 

 

I played AW but not since I got higher level gear. My staff is better than my friends so I know I would just destroy everything if I used it.  My favorite classes right now are elementalist and archers.  The thing with AW is the melee attack which is a special attack and multiple of weapon damage can be used like a basic attack, because of no cooldown.  My friend confirmed this for me last night, with a medium rare staff at 130dps you can do over 500 dmg with each melee swing.  That number only increases when you get better gear.

[orskar]

and how many of those spirit blades are blocked? most of my AW damage in perilous is from fade cloak rather than spirit blade because of the constant blocking. 

 

 

and in the time it takes to swing once and finish the animation, do you realise how many hits you can get in as another class?

 

 

also the damage is actually 400% of the raw damage, as far as I know, so it's actually 4 X 60ish, which is in the 200-300 range, which is what I regularly see as an AW with a level 21 staff. 300-400 a hit is critical. (ignoring atk % and such)

 

130dps staff implies they have a similar staff to me and are using a rune.

 

my assassin does around 300 with each stab, no stealth. I get about 3-4 times as many of those hits in while it the AW gets one swing off. archer does minimum 300 and gets minimum 500 with criticals. sure, spirit blade is aoe but all you need is one person to block and you're stuck.

 

I haven't played reaver in a while so can't remember numbers, but was easily outkilling an AW in the room with her. when I play with reavers they constantly wreck everything else around me while I'm still screwing about swinging at one archer. same thing with elementalists and archers, I just end up becoming their tank/distraction tool.

[smooth_operator]

and how many of those spirit blades are blocked? most of my AW damage in perilous is from fade cloak rather than spirit blade because of the constant blocking. 

 

 

and in the time it takes to swing once and finish the animation, do you realise how many hits you can get in as another class?

 

 

also the damage is actually 400% of the raw damage, as far as I know, so it's actually 4 X 60ish, which is in the 200-300 range, which is what I regularly see as an AW with a level 21 staff. 300-400 a hit is critical. (ignoring atk % and such)

 

130dps staff implies they have a similar staff to me and are using a rune.

 

my assassin does around 300 with each stab, no stealth. I get about 3-4 times as many of those hits in while it the AW gets one swing off. archer does minimum 300 and gets minimum 500 with criticals. sure, spirit blade is aoe but all you need is one person to block and you're stuck.

 

I haven't played reaver in a while so can't remember numbers, but was easily outkilling an AW in the room with her. when I play with reavers they constantly wreck everything else around me while I'm still screwing about swinging at one archer. same thing with elementalists and archers, I just end up becoming their tank/distraction tool.

 

The assassin does a ton of damage too, if they can manage to stay alive. The AW will be alive to enjoy the long battle and rack up the kills, while the assassin is laying down waiting for the AW to revive them (which will never happen).

 

Then even if you get a ton of kills with the assassin you won't outperform the AW because they score points with barrier.  Like I said no weakness, now just imagine with very good equipment.  If you want to rack of kills on perilous without any risk and come in #1 every time then AW is the easy choice.

[Shinnyshin]

You're the one who's wrong. The AW does a crazy amount of damage on each melee swing. My friend who has only been playing a week got a rare staff, and now he's doing 500 dmg per hit. These are melee attacks so he's pulling off two of these hits before every archer shot, so you can say 1,000 dps. Since he got that staff his barrier is constantly active. He made a comment to me last night that perilous is now way too easy and he knows Bioware is going to adjust it. I told him how I made this post on the forum because of the AW ridiculous skillset.

The fact that you didnt know the AW does a lot of damage shows your knowledge of the game. All an AW needs is a medium rare staff of about 130dps, and you will dominate with little to no effort. I'm actually witnessing this with my own eyes.

500 damage per swing for an optimistic 1k dps is god awful--and it's blockable to boot. That's about the damage my Legionnaire does. 'sides, everyone knows AW's big numbers come from his PotA + Fade Cloak + Stonefist/CL combo. Assassin has an 8kish nuke and a spammable 4k+ damage AoE attack on an even lower cooldown than Spirit Blade. Archer has a 2-3kish nuke on a very low cooldown that can hit the entire map. Necromancer has Walking Bomb.

Again, AW is overpowered. But not for his damage--which is bad enough that you can almost make the argument he's balanced. To say his damage is overwhelmingly broken is tantamount to flat-out declaring you don't play any of the other classes at a high level. Also, lol at points-based argument.

Here's a video of my friend pugging Perilous with his Assassin. Its damage makes the AW look completely pointless.

[The Allslayer]

500 damage per swing for an optimistic 1k dps is god awful--and it's blockable to boot.  That's about the damage my Legionnaire does.  'sides, everyone knows AW's big numbers come from his PotA + Fade Cloak + Stonefist/CL combo.  Assassin has an 8kish nuke and a spammable 4k+ damage AoE attack on an even lower cooldown than Spirit Blade.  Archer has a 2-3kish nuke on a very low cooldown that can hit the entire map.  Necromancer has Walking Bomb.

 

Again, AW is overpowered.  But not for his damage--which is bad enough that you can almost make the argument he's balanced.  To say his damage is overwhelmingly broken is tantamount to flat-out declaring you don't play any of the other classes at a high level.

 

Here's a video of my friend pugging Perilous with his Assassin.  Its damage makes the AW look completely pointless.

 

There's no AW in that match. He would have been getting all the kills if he were there

 

I like how the Archer came first too, ya know even though his dps is bad. I wonder if that was a new player or just someone that doesn't  bother with banners/titles/portraits.

[russ4ua16]

Anyone who thinks an AW can out dàmage an archer should be perma banned. Whatever they have could be contagious.

Seriously though, I wonder how many on that side of the argument are basing their opinion on the scoreboard. AWs get damage xp plus support xp.

[Samahl na Revas]

Anyone who thinks an AW can out dàmage an archer should be perma banned. Whatever they have could be contagious.

Seriously though, I wonder how many on that side of the argument are basing their opinion on the scoreboard. AWs get damage xp plus support xp.

 

Yea, I noticed that when I was soloing. I kept seeing the purple support xp, and was like . I wasn't sure if that is how it is for all class. Without the shield generation that class is like every other non barrier class, I dare someone to skip the knight enchanter skill tree and invest only in the rift mage then solo the highest difficulty.

 

It actually takes some promotions to get the damage needed to generate a full bar of barrier without fade cloak.

 

Then again I was thinking I might not be affect by the nerf if they reduced the percent of damage that generates barrier, I would simply need more cunning. If they go the cooldown route...smh.

[Kjubaran]

With Fully geared Katari (everything purple + sulevein blade), and godly stats, you will just laught at AW since they are so sloow to kill something at perilous.

 

AW is just supreme tanks with good mobility, and moderate damage a decent crowd control. And Yes, their only weeakness is stupid party talks.

 

Lately i met ALOT of ranged-congrol AWs...strange

 

If you think keeper kill things slow, you havent tried stacic cage with good group...

[Drasca]

With Fully geared Katari (everything purple + sulevein blade), and godly stats, you will just laught at AW since they are so sloow to kill something at perilous.

 

My AW teammates joke at the fact they just setup enemies for me to kill with their PotA.

[Johnsen1972]

Stop crying for nerfs.... Instead buff the weak classes. Thx

[Catastrophy]

Stop crying for nerfs.... Instead buff the weak classes. Thx

No.

[ChinookLoki]

I played AW but not since I got higher level gear. My staff is better than my friends so I know I would just destroy everything if I used it.  My favorite classes right now are elementalist and archers.  The thing with AW is the melee attack which is a special attack and multiple of weapon damage can be used like a basic attack, because of no cooldown.  My friend confirmed this for me last night, with a medium rare staff at 130dps you can do over 500 dmg with each melee swing.  That number only increases when you get better gear.

 

The consistent problem with your argument is that you over estimate AW damage.

You should be aware that the DPS rating of your weapon is irrelevant, your skills do not use it, they use the actual Damage Rating which is below DPS.

 

AW does enough damage to get the job done and combined with the strong survivability of the class it makes for a very strong kit. 

 

The really odd part of this is that you say you do play the Elementalist and the Archer, because an Elementalist offers control, Barrier and also enough damage to get the job done.  It's not as powerful at lvl 3 as the AW, but that's more of where they stuck the powers in their trees.  The Archer with Long Shot/Archer's Lance, Opportunity Knocks and Dance of Death will out damage an AW every time and also top them on the boards at the end of the match if you care about that.  The Archer doesn't have the durability the AW brings, but the Archer will significantly out damage the Arcane Warrior, but maybe that secret just isn't out yet in your circle of friends?

[Drasca]

The Archer with Long Shot/Archer's Lance, Opportunity Knocks and Dance of Death will out damage an AW every time and also top them on the boards at the end of the match if you care about that.  The Archer doesn't have the durability the AW brings, but the Archer will significantly out damage the Arcane Warrior, but maybe that secret just isn't out yet in your circle of friends?

 

Not true with my Combo King build & playstyle, but most AW's are SB scrubs, so your statement is generally true for those.

[lpconfig]

It is

 

No.

[Exiled Ditto]

 

...  Pit him against ranged enemies and he'll go from op to flat on his face.

 

I'm not sure where this is coming from, but I've seen it multiple times in this thread. Does nobody take the upgrade to spirit blade? I find ranged attackers far easier to take down safely, compared to those melee mooks and impenetrable guarding.

 

It should be noted that the upgrade does not simply deflect the projectiles, it will reflect them directly back at whoever shot you and damage is amplified by your own bonuses and the rune on your staff. On threatening, the Arcane Horror does 75%+ of his own health when I reflect his hyper beam. Archers do half the work for me when cutting them down, and all the work if I just sit away and reflect everything.

 

@OP the only thing that's too strong is the automatic and continuous nature of his barrier generation.

 

The devs made a mistake by taking dedicated healers out of the game. Instead of everyone being on equal footing, self-sustain became mandatory and not all forms of it are equal. Warriors have their guard generation, Reaver has additional on-demand self-healing. Keepers have barrier, Necromancers have heals on kill, Elementalist can have both, and Arcane Warrior obviously has their damage converted into barrier. Rouges got left out, but most have stealth which is a good damage-mitigation tool.

 

The issue is most of those have some sort of cooldown associated with their use, while the AW is only contingent on his ability to do damage.

 

Once you get yourself some heal on kill rings, suddenly AW doesn't seem so strong. Other classes with better DPS can use those rings and do much better.

[Drasca]

Does nobody take the upgrade to spirit blade?

 

 

j/k. We don't bring SB at all. Don't need it. Combo King ftw. SF CL FC PotA Static Charge. See link in sig for full build.

 

 

Other classes with better DPS can use those rings and do much better.

 

DPS classes skip HoK rings all together, and go for +damage rings. Kill or be killed, ungh! Have you ever seen a Reaver wreck house with double +20% Bonus Critical damage rings, Death Blow and Sulevin's Blade? 2k per swing non crit 4k crit. High end rogues do this too. My Templar sports +10% attack rings with her Caliban, and does up to 4k-18k AoE depending on enemy type and number of enemies nearby.

 

There's some sick damage out there, and combo king AW is pretty high up there (though less burst than reavers/templars, CFM eles), waaaaay more than SB based AW's.

[veramis]

You guys saying AW DPS is bad are forgetting a few important things.

 

1. If an AW wants to abandon the team and solo, he has fadestep and the survivability to run 5-15 seconds ahead of the group and kill everything.

2. PotA, which is arguably the strongest control ability in the game with incredible synergy with so many AW and teammate abilities.

3. Spirit blade hits multiple targets and has no target cap, with a few swipes killing most mobs with PotA and weakened status.

4. Fade cloak hits multiple targets and has no target cap, with a single cast reducing most mobs' hp to very low with PotA and weakened status.

5. The fastest perilous solos are by far done by AW.

 

Now, if an AW was to be a team player, obviously the archer can do more DPS than him once everything is lined up perfectly for longshot. But let's be honest here, what makes AW shine is when the dumb AI runs towards him and into his PotA. AW is simply better when there aren't teammates distracting enemies, and a properly played AW will always run ahead of the team, in which case he should be the one to make use of his PotA by fadebombing them and slicing them up a few times.

[ChinookLoki]

Not true with my Combo King build & playstyle, but most AW's are SB scrubs, so your statement is generally true for those.

I would grant you that caveat if the player has the skill required to pull it off, but then I'd point out that when an Archer manages to pull to entire map with Long Shot and knows how to use LOS to not die, that Archer is going to hit an uncapped number of targets doing increased damage per target and will result in a cleared level and key drop faster than than any class, AW included.  

 

Of course, the Archer will never survive unassisted as easily as the AW (and several other classes), they are the truest Glass Cannon DAMP has.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Builds that require every piece of top end gear are irrelevant as it is a very very small % that have the items needed. L2usebrains

[veramis]

Builds that require every piece of top end gear are irrelevant as it is a very very small % that have the items needed. L2usebrains

 

This is one of the reasons why so many people rolled with AW when the game came out. I remember seeing AW's carrying on threatening on the second day of the game being out. The fact that AW can do amazing with mediocre gear automatically makes them the most OP class for newcomers, and, just my opinion, it still is the most OP class regardless of your equipment/attributes.

 

But I have to somewhat disagree with your point about builds requiring top equipment/attributes being irrelevant. It may be true that right now you can't expect average casual players to play a katari or archer that will out-DPS a team-oriented AW the same way that Kjubaran does and other leaderboard folk might, but eventually, casual players will get 500-1000 hours under their belts and indeed have top equipment/attributes. It's only a matter of time before the majority of DAMP players realize they have become strong enough that they just have to press w+1 as archers to auto-win the game.

 

Biower, pls, I can't take any more of the beta archer's whining.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

This is one of the reasons why so many people rolled with AW when the game came out. I remember seeing AW's carrying on threatening on the second day of the game being out. The fact that AW can do amazing with mediocre gear automatically makes them the most OP class for newcomers, and, just my opinion, it still is the most OP class regardless of your equipment/attributes.

 

But I have to somewhat disagree with your point about builds requiring top equipment/attributes being irrelevant. It may be true that right now you can't expect average casual players to play a katari or archer that will out-DPS a team-oriented AW the same way that Kjubaran does and other leaderboard folk might, but eventually, casual players will get 500-1000 hours under their belts and indeed have top equipment/attributes. It's only a matter of time before the majority of DAMP players realize they have become strong enough that they just have to press w+1 as archers to auto-win the game.

 

Biower, pls, I can't take any more of the beta archer's whining.

Uh..... 500-1000 is a pretty huge number for casuals. Even the low end of that requires 2 hours a day for over 8 months, which makes it sound ridiculous when people say "Oh just use these moves with all the best gear and it's easy"

[veramis]

Uh..... 500-1000 is a pretty huge number for casuals. Even the low end of that requires 2 hours a day for over 8 months, which makes it sound ridiculous when people say "Oh just use these moves with all the best gear and it's easy"

 

Note I did say "a matter of time". Yes I know it will take a lot of players a few more months, several more months, or even a year or two before they reach the ~450 prestige of most top leaderboard players (ignoring challenge prestige points), but it will happen. The opinion of people who have played so much is valuable because it is an indicator of what the casual majority will experience later down the road. But naturally, bioware won't listen to anything, won't balance anything, blah, so casuals can expect to be able to run with the types of top equipment/attribute builds that are currently run by people with 500-1000 hours.

 

And if you don't believe me when I say many casuals will get 500-1000 hours under their belts eventually, take my MEMP stats into consideration. 467 hours played, #39,437 or top 5% in N7 ranking, #230,482 or top 41% for challenge leaderboards. Yes, the game has been out a long time, but tens of thousands of players surpassed me, and many more tens of thousands are not that far behind me.