373 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

It isn't BS, it's true. You could only think it isn't a return to form if you started playing their games more recently. Probably with DA:O, is my guess. As others have said, this is a return to waaaaay longer ago. The original Baldur's Gate was like DA:I, except DA:I spends more time on companion interaction and development. Exploring areas with no direct relationship to the plot was a large part of that game. The more focused BG2 was better, but a lot of that was because there were deeper characters. The original BG with all its exploration was still good, though.

 

I played every single BioWare game except the Sonic one. Yes, even Shattered Steel.

 

Oh, don't start with Baldur's Gate with me, it's the game I am playing right now. Look, it's down there in my taskbar.

 

Your logic is flawed. Game A has element X and was good, so if game B has element X too, then it also has to be good. Yeah... no. That's not how it works.

 

It's about balance. You need to balance your main quest with exploration and side quests. You need to create the right atmosphere, the right gameplay by taking all these elements and mixing them together in the correct ratios. My complete DA:I playthrough took ~120h and I spent perhaps 10 of that on the main quest. That's not balanced.

 

DA:I consists mainly of timesinks, just like an MMO. Which makes no sense considering that you have an urgent main quest to finish. Oh noes, the Empress is about to be assassinated... let's explore the Hissing Wastes first, I heard there's good gear there.

BG's main quest was never urgent. Gorion dies and then you have no clue whatsoever on how to find his murderer. You basically stumble into discovering the plot of the Iron Throne by investigating a completely unrelated issue. It isn't until Chapter 7 that the story starts to mention a time limit (Sarevok's elevation to Grand Duke) - until then you can do whatever you want. And even just wandering around and exploring the Sword Coast has a measurable result: your character improves visibly. You meet lots of people, solve (interesting) quests, increase your reputation, get rich and become more powerful and versatile. It's entertaining gameplay all the time. Somewhat challenging, too.

 

DA:I simply doesn't live up to BioWare's standards of the past. Well, unless you talk about bugs. Then it's a worthy successor.

[Tsunami Chef]

I legitimately think none of you guys posting were here during the release of previous Bioware games, or you have the memory of a fly.

 

Just because this forum is filled with anal rage doesn't mean the overall reception is bad. The bioware official forums have hated Mass Effect 2 , Mass Effect 3, DA 2, and DA:I when they came out (AKA any sequel.). He doesn't base his success on how happy the fan forum is with the game. He bases his success on how good he thinks the game is, the critic reviews, and the overall fan response (which believe it or not has been immensely positive outside of this forum).

 

You guys say he is closeted for saying these things when you guys still have your head in the bioware hate fan club cloud. If he's dumb and ignorant for not knowing how angry you guys are with the game, you are just as bad for not looking anywhere else outside of your own hate hive for input into the game. More likely you just disregard any enjoyment gotten from the game as illusions of idiotic fanboys to help yourself sleep at night.

[Melca36]

I legitimately think none of you guys posting were here during the release of previous Bioware games, or you have the memory of a fly.

 

Just because this forum is filled with anal rage doesn't mean the overall reception is bad. The bioware official forums have hated Mass Effect 2 , Mass Effect 3, DA 2, and DA:I when they came out (AKA any sequel.). He doesn't base his success on how happy the fan forum is with the game. He bases his success on how good he thinks the game is, the critic reviews, and the overall fan response (which believe it or not has been immensely positive outside of this forum).

 

You guys say he is closeted for saying these things when you guys still have your head in the bioware hate fan club cloud. If he's dumb and ignorant for not knowing how angry you guys are with the game, you are just as bad for not looking anywhere else outside of your own hate hive for input into the game. More likely you just disregard any enjoyment gotten from the game as illusions of idiotic fanboys to help yourself sleep at night.

 

 

Thats the thing. People are mad because there others who are enjoying the game and have had few issues with it.  They thing they are speaking for the masses when they are NOT.   And most of them who proclaim they wont buy the DLC will get it and still troll the boards. They will buy DA4 and complain about it too. Its called human nature.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I legitimately think none of you guys posting were here during the release of previous Bioware games, or you have the memory of a fly.

 

Just because this forum is filled with anal rage doesn't mean the overall reception is bad. The bioware official forums have hated Mass Effect 2 , Mass Effect 3, DA 2, and DA:I when they came out (AKA any sequel.). He doesn't base his success on how happy the fan forum is with the game. He bases his success on how good he thinks the game is, the critic reviews, and the overall fan response (which believe it or not has been immensely positive outside of this forum).

 

You guys say he is closeted for saying these things when you guys still have your head in the bioware hate fan club cloud. If he's dumb and ignorant for not knowing how angry you guys are with the game, you are just as bad for not looking anywhere else outside of your own hate hive for input into the game. More likely you just disregard any enjoyment gotten from the game as illusions of idiotic fanboys to help yourself sleep at night.

 

There's one problem with your argument... if the game was as good as he said, then why would longtime BioWare fans complain about it? Do you believe we woke up one morning and had a 180° change of opinion?

[Jeffry]

I legitimately think none of you guys posting were here during the release of previous Bioware games, or you have the memory of a fly.

 

Just because this forum is filled with anal rage doesn't mean the overall reception is bad. The bioware official forums have hated Mass Effect 2 , Mass Effect 3, DA 2, and DA:I when they came out (AKA any sequel.). He doesn't base his success on how happy the fan forum is with the game. He bases his success on how good he thinks the game is, the critic reviews, and the overall fan response (which believe it or not has been immensely positive outside of this forum).

 

You guys say he is closeted for saying these things when you guys still have your head in the bioware hate fan club cloud. If he's dumb and ignorant for not knowing how angry you guys are with the game, you are just as bad for not looking anywhere else outside of your own hate hive for input into the game. More likely you just disregard any enjoyment gotten from the game as illusions of idiotic fanboys to help yourself sleep at night.

 

 

 

I very much remember all those shitstorms and backlashes, but I didn't post here during that time, I was busy moderating the EA official FB site for my country. So believe me when I say I remember it pretty well. I even defended some criticized aspects of BW's previous games, since I felt that some of the hate was totally uncalled for. But DAI is a whole different story...

 

Ofc no CEO / Director bases the success of the game on the reactions of the studio's core fans. They base them on sales numbers, awards and critic praise. Which frankly is not saying anything about the quality of the game. Is CoD a good game for selling millions of copies each year? It is not.

 

Immensely positive? On their FB page maybe, since every critical post is deleted and only the positive ones remain. Good indicator of quality of the game indeed.

 

Voicing our disagreements with many bad aspects of the game and with BEING LIED STRAIGHT TO OUR FACES is not hating the game. If we didn't like BioWare, we wouldn't have been posting here in the first place. We would just forget about the game and about the studio that made it. But we care. We want BioWare to succeed. We want BioWare to make good games, since they used to be one of the most reliable studios for quality unique RPG games. But right now they don't need pat on the back, they need some serious tough love, because this game is not what they promised it will be. Maybe you are ok with that and good for you, but many others don't like being tricked.

Modifié par Jeffry, 12 février 2015 - 01:04 .

[Melca36]

 

 

I very much remember all those shitstorms and backlashes, but I didn't post here during that time, I was busy moderating the EA official FB site for my country. So believe me when I say I remember it pretty well. I even defended some criticized aspects of BW's previous games, since I felt that some of the hate was totally uncalled for. But DAI is a whole different story...

 

Ofc no CEO / Director bases the success of the game on the reactions of the studio's core fans. They base them on sales numbers, awards and critic praise. Which frankly is not saying anything about the quality of the game. Is CoD a good game for selling millions of copies each year? It is not.

 

Immensely positive? On their FB page maybe, since every critical post is deleted and only the positive ones remain. Good indicator of quality of the game indeed.

 

Voicing our disagreements with many bad aspects of the game and with BEING LIED STRAIGHT TO OUR FACES is not hating the game. If we didn't like BioWare, we wouldn't have been posting here in the first place. We would just forget about the game and about the studio that made it. But we care. We want BioWare to succeed. We want BioWare to make good games, since they used to be one of the most reliable studios for quality unique RPG games. But right now they don't need pat on the back, they need some serious tough love, because this game is not what they promised it will be. Maybe you are ok with that and good for you, but many others don't like being tricked.

 

 

You weren't lied to. You should not have expected to see ALPHA footage to be part of the game. There was alpha footage in the trailers for DA2 that never made it in the game. It happens with all games

[Il Divo]

There's one problem with your argument... if the game was as good as he said, then why would longtime BioWare fans complain about it? Do you believe we woke up one morning and had a 180° change of opinion?

 

Well, not to reverse the tables, but here's the other side: if the game is as bad as others say, why do other longtime Bioware fans love it?

 

His point is that every Bioware game, at some point or other, has dealt with claims that this is the fall of Bioware. And other recent Bioware games have both been met with as much and far more venom, both on the forums and by fan reviews. ME2 had the Smudboy era. At launch, I'd say DA2 was more reviled and then we of course the ME3 controversy, which I think we're all aware of.

 

Same thing of course with statements regarding how poster X loved every previous Bioware game until they reached *this* one. 

[Jeffry]

You weren't lied to. You should not have expected to see ALPHA footage to be part of the game. There was alpha footage in the trailers for DA2 that never made it in the game. It happens with all games

 

Oh I absolutely was. I am not talking about alpha footage which runs on super computers. It is not cool, but common knowledge not to trust these kinds of footages. I am talking about this

 

 

 

Since I am a PC player I was very much pleased with these news, just listen to it "tactical camera is just as you would expect from Origins" or "the combat HUD was created specificaly for PCs" and so on. If this is not a blatant lie and false advertising then I don't know what is (this is honestly just as bad as false advertising in the case of Watch Dogs). And some Xbox360 and PS3 players have it even worse. We on PC can at least play the game, they oftentimes can not, despite being assured the game will run just fine on their systems.

 

Or it is my fault I had not realized that typical PC game is played with a controller?

[theflyingzamboni]

I played every single BioWare game except the Sonic one. Yes, even Shattered Steel.

 

Oh, don't start with Baldur's Gate with me, it's the game I am playing right now. Look, it's down there in my taskbar.

 

Your logic is flawed. Game A has element X and was good, so if game B has element X too, then it also has to be good. Yeah... no. That's not how it works.

 

It's about balance. You need to balance your main quest with exploration and side quests. You need to create the right atmosphere, the right gameplay by taking all these elements and mixing them together in the correct ratios. My complete DA:I playthrough took ~120h and I spent perhaps 10 of that on the main quest. That's not balanced.

 

DA:I consists mainly of timesinks, just like an MMO. Which makes no sense considering that you have an urgent main quest to finish. Oh noes, the Empress is about to be assassinated... let's explore the Hissing Wastes first, I heard there's good gear there.

BG's main quest was never urgent. Gorion dies and then you have no clue whatsoever on how to find his murderer. You basically stumble into discovering the plot of the Iron Throne by investigating a completely unrelated issue. It isn't until Chapter 7 that the story starts to mention a time limit (Sarevok's elevation to Grand Duke) - until then you can do whatever you want. And even just wandering around and exploring the Sword Coast has a measurable result: your character improves visibly. You meet lots of people, solve (interesting) quests, increase your reputation, get rich and become more powerful and versatile. It's entertaining gameplay all the time. Somewhat challenging, too.

 

DA:I simply doesn't live up to BioWare's standards of the past. Well, unless you talk about bugs. Then it's a worthy successor.

That would be flawed logic if I were using it, but I'm not. The last couple sentences aren't really part of my argument, just commentary on my opinion of BG and BG2 as games.

My only argument is that there is more design similarity between DA:I and BG than between other more recent Bioware games and BG. Which there is, so far as the exploration emphasis and the use of large areas with small sidequests goes. Which makes the game a return to form, since BG was one of their first. Quality of execution doesn't enter into my argument.

[Sunbrow]

Design similarity with BG....wu wu what the....I mean .....seriously???  Never once in BG did I feel like I was in a bad version of the Rift's mmo, like I do in this game. This game takes tedious to a new level. Do you know any history of your character at all?  Or do you get the feeling you just popped in a quarter for mortal combat and are going to button mash your way to victory.   Yea that drums up memories of BG...WTF? Exploring large area's with sidequests makes them oh so much a like I can disregard every other aspect of the game that screams this game is sad. Oh and don't forget they are both software too....makes them so much a like its scary.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Dragon Age: Inquisition is indeed a lot like Baldur's Gate 1, only with more roleplaying opportunities, properly fleshed-out companion characters, and larger and more interesting wilderness areas.

[Rawgrim]

Dragon Age: Inquisition is indeed a lot like Baldur's Gate 1, only with more roleplaying opportunities, properly fleshed-out companion characters, and larger and more interesting wilderness areas.

 

Never drink alcohol while posting.

[Il Divo]

Dragon Age: Inquisition is indeed a lot like Baldur's Gate 1, only with more roleplaying opportunities, properly fleshed-out companion characters, and larger and more interesting wilderness areas.

 

And a narrative that's more than a scavenger hunt. Don't forget that bit. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Dragon Age: Inquisition is indeed a lot like Baldur's Gate 1, only with more roleplaying opportunities, properly fleshed-out companion characters, and larger and more interesting wilderness areas.

 

I'll give you the properly fleshed-out companions and the larger wilderness areas (although interesting is debatable), but more roleplaying opportunities? Nope. No way. Your Inquisitor is very narrowly defined, you can't deviate from that much. My BG1 characters have much more freedom to express themselves. Intelligence and Wisdom have a noticeable impact on conversations, as does reputation. You can be aggressive, heroic, funny, greedy ... basically, you can play the game like -you- want and not just like the writers wanted.

[Il Divo]

I'll give you the properly fleshed-out companions and the larger wilderness areas (although interesting is debatable), but more roleplaying opportunities? Nope. No way. Your Inquisitor is very narrowly defined, you can't deviate from that much. My BG1 characters have much more freedom to express themselves. Intelligence and Wisdom have a noticeable impact on conversations, as does reputation. You can be aggressive, heroic, funny, greedy ... basically, you can play the game like -you- want and not just like the writers wanted.

 

I wish I could agree. Reputation I'll grant you does make a difference, but I seem to recall the dialogue itself being laughably bad and extremely limited. 

 

Case in point: after confronting the Assassin in Candlekeep when Parda approaches you asking what's wrong, your options are:

 

1. Oh Parda! There was a man in there, he smelled like the stables and he- and he tried to kill me, it was horrible...

 

2. It's-It's nothing Parda. One of the cats didn't like me petting it. I'm alright, really....

 

http://baldursgate.w....com/wiki/Parda

 

I also rarely recall Intelligence or Wisdom making any sort of concrete difference in conversations, in contrast to Planescape, where quite often my stats play a critical role in tone. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

I wish I could agree. Reputation I'll grant you does make a difference, but I seem to recall the dialogue itself being laughably bad and extremely limited. 

 

Case in point: after confronting the Assassin in Candlekeep when Parda approaches you asking what's wrong, your options are:

 

1. Oh Parda! There was a man in there, he smelled like the stables and he- and he tried to kill me, it was horrible...

 

2. It's-It's nothing Parda. One of the cats didn't like me petting it. I'm alright, really....

 

http://baldursgate.w....com/wiki/Parda

 

I also rarely recall Intelligence or Wisdom making any sort of concrete difference in conversations, in contrast to Planescape, where quite often my stats play a critical role in tone. 

 

Wow. You use one of the first conversations from the tutorial to represent the entire game? There are literally hundreds of far better examples.

 

Yes, Planescape does it even better. Wisdom is the most important stat there.

 

Which actually works as an argument in my favour, because stats don't play a role in DA:I anymore. Not for roleplay purposes anyway.

[Il Divo]

Wow. You use one of the first conversations from the tutorial to represent the entire game? There are literally hundreds of far better examples.

 

Yes, Planescape does it even better. Wisdom is the most important stat there.

 

Which actually works as an argument in my favour, because stats don't play a role in DA:I anymore. Not for roleplay purposes anyway.

 

Would you like me to choose others in the experience? Tell me now, as I'm going to be gone for a few days, but the general writing quality in Baldur's Gate is laughably bad.

 

 

Mulahey dialogue upon suspecting the player was sent to kill him:

 

1. Uh...yes...fool, Tazok is...is most displeased with thee! Reveal your treachery and mayhaps he will spare you!

 

2. No one sent us, but they head is in no less danger! Reveal they treachery and mayhaps we will be merciful!

 

Edit: And I can't honestly recall a single instance where my stats made a difference in conversation. No joke, I would appreciate it if you had a few examples. 

 

Double edit: And, for the record, the Parda conversation is the tone for pretty much the entire tutorial, so I wouldn't blame someone for struggling to make it past that point. 

[Chiramu]

 

You lot expect the exec. producer of a franchise to trash talk his own award winning product in the press instead of doing what exec. producers are supposed to do when talking to the press? Aka giving their product the best PR possible, especially after being honored with an award? And you know, if they're being modest about it aka saying "There are things we want to/will improve......" they're accused of being fake/insincere?

 

 

People expect everyone selling/making a product to be honest. If the people making/selling the product are not honest then let Hell break loose. 

 

The times are different, game developers need to fess up to their mistakes instead of sweeping them under the rug. Look at what happened to Square Enix after their first release of FFXIV, and the lengths they went to to restore the customer trust.

 

If Bioware doesn't get with the times they will end up losing customers.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I'll give you the properly fleshed-out companions and the larger wilderness areas (although interesting is debatable), but more roleplaying opportunities? Nope. No way. Your Inquisitor is very narrowly defined, you can't deviate from that much. My BG1 characters have much more freedom to express themselves. Intelligence and Wisdom have a noticeable impact on conversations, as does reputation. You can be aggressive, heroic, funny, greedy ... basically, you can play the game like -you- want and not just like the writers wanted.

 

Yes, I think there are more and better roleplaying opportunities in Inquisition.

 

No matter what, your character in Baldur's Gate is always Gorion's ward. The game makes it clear that you've spent your whole life in Candlekeep, no matter how poorly that works for your character. You might reasonably have trained as a fighter or a mage there, even a thief, but a druid? A monk? It also tells you that you're about the same age as Imoen, which is ludicrous for non-human characters. Sure, you can play an elven druid, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense. At least Inquisition gives you a choice of four backgrounds - five if you count the human noble who was sent to the Circle separately. You also have some dialogue choices to fill in what kind of life you lead before the game started, which you don't get much of in vanilla BG. For the dwarf and qunari characters, at least, there are no restrictions on your character's age. (I don't know about elves and humans, haven't played those yet.)

 

I also think that the dialogue wheel in Inquisition is the best dialogue system BioWare have ever come up with, although I understand that many people care more about seeing the exact lines than I do. (Also, the vast majority of dialogue selections in Baldur's Gate and its sequel allow you to pick from two or three options, except in cases where you're asking strings of questions. They're actually not much different to dialogue selections in DA2 and Inquistion - you can even see the same diplomatic/humorous/aggressive pattern, with the lines arranged in the same order they were in DA2.)

 

I also feel that the romances offer a lot of roleplaying opportunities, and there's a much better range of those in DAI than in BG2. (And BG1, obviously.) Good luck playing a gay man or a lesbian in vanilla BG2 while also getting laid. (Or a dwarf, for that matter. We may not have romanceable dwarves yet, but at least dwarves aren't forced into celibacy.) The relationships have a lot more interaction now, and aren't just test where you have to pick the right line of dialogue every single time or end the romance without the game even telling you it's over. Better still, you get other types of deep interaction with characters now, not just the one you're sleeping with. You can really be friends - or even enemies! - with all of your companions. That lets you flesh out the player character a lot more, through their interaction with those closest to them.

 

I even got a lot of roleplaying out of the crafting system. It certainly says something about my Inquisitor that she named her daggers Duster and Deshyr and they're completely identical ...

 

Intelligence and Wisdom don't have an impact on BG dialogue - I think you're thinking of Planescape: Torment. There's one option in the Underdark for high Intelligence characters to know that the drow use 'illithid' rather than 'mindflayer' to describe the squid-headed things, but that's the only instance I can think of in the whole trilogy. Reputation does change the way characters react to you, but it also ticks up so quickly if you just complete quests instead of murdering everyone you meet that it's hard not to have a character end up at twenty half way through the game.

[Jeffry]

Charisma and reputation affected dialogues and rewards in BG. Then there were some checks for wisdom and intelligence. In DAO some dialogue options were available only with high cunning (30+) and ofc intimidation and persuasion checked your strength and cunning stat respectively. On the other hand in DAI some options are available based on what you said in the past, for example if you are pious you'll have some extra dialogue options every now and then (then there are those perks and I had some extra dialogues as human noble too).

 

DAI does some things right, especially the cast of companions is imo one of BW's best so far. The romances are great as well, lot of variety and it is interesting that they all play out differently (compared to DAO when they all ended with a dryhumping in a tent).

 

The dialogue wheel is really nothing special anymore. And the Inquisitor's answers neither. Inquisitor is awfully bland and uninteresting character with the personality of a wall (I blame writers for this). BioWare either needs to return to a protagonist with a single background (BG, KotOR) or create an iconic one (DA2, ME) or give us the chance to know the character before the main story takes off (DAO).

 

Crafting system is great and one of the best I've seen in a SP game, but you really don't have an option to make the items of your choice without an awful lot of mindless grinding, which should have no place in a SP story-driven game.

 

But the crafting itself (minus grind), characters, graphics and visual design are like the only really positivie things about the game and the ones DAI does better than its predecessors. It either downright fails in all other aspects or at least doesn't deliver. So no, this is not a return to form of anything, I don't recall any other story-driven BW game that resembled and was played like an MMO. Ofc except SWTOR, but even that surpassed DAI in storytelling and story progression.

[Elhanan]

People expect everyone selling/making a product to be honest. If the people making/selling the product are not honest then let Hell break loose. 
 
The times are different, game developers need to fess up to their mistakes instead of sweeping them under the rug. Look at what happened to Square Enix after their first release of FFXIV, and the lengths they went to to restore the customer trust.
 
If Bioware doesn't get with the times they will end up losing customers.

And yet, these remarks have been said before with other titles, and DAI is now the best launch of any Bioware game. It would seem that more do believe Bioware is honest than those that do not.

[Jeffry]

And yet, these remarks have been said before with other titles, and DAI is now the best launch of any Bioware game. It would seem that more do believe Bioware is honest than those that do not.

 

Ofc it is the best launch when the game appeals to the broadest audience from any BW games ever. And then you have the hype, many awards (since 2014 was a terrible year for really good AAA games and all other major studios failed even worse) and countless positive (totally honest and truthful) reviews. Plus BW regained a lot of the lost trust after ME3 with their approach, so there was not really much of a reason not to trust them, when the game looked really good from previews and promos.

 

But was BW honest with DAI? No, they absolutely were not. Will it affect the next game? That remains to be seen. But have they done so far anything to quell the complaints or regain some of the lost trust this time? No, quite the opposite. This is the worst post-release care any of their games has ever gotten. And if there is something costumers don't like it is dishonesty and getting the feeling the developers don't care about them anymore, since they already have their money.

[Elhanan]

yeah Bioware was very lucky
Ubisoft screwed up with Watch Dogs and Unity
 
there was no The Witcher 3 or Batman Arkham Knight so DA:I had it real easy getting all the GOTY awards
if those games would have released as planned ...lol

It appears if TW3 had released as planned, it would be encountering troubles of their own, as the delays were to solve problems found late in development.

And these well deserved awards have little to do with sales at launch. While it may have been cool to knock Bioware in the recent past, it seemingly is now passé seeing that pre-orders and sales at launch went so well.

[Draining Dragon]

DAI is nothing like Baldur's Gate.