23 réponses à ce sujet

[phoenix fang55]

I've been looking at some of the classes, and I wanted some opinions on some of my thoughts for some for fun and experimental builds. 

 

My first note I'd like to make is that I play 99% of my games on threatening PUG's, and right now, thats the level I'm building for, though I'd certainly like my builds to work decently well on perlious. I'd have ventured into Peri by now, but I'm mainly waiting for a HOK ring to drop, I'm sure my Lego could, as he has Caliban.

 

Second Note, I'm just looking for feedback, adjustments, maybe some other builds to try, and mostly opinions on people that might have tried similar builds.

 

Third note, I have not tried any of these builds, I'm trying to get all chars to 20 with a build I like and resetting those I either don't or want to try a for fun build, currently working my alchemist up for promotion, started at the lego and worked my way across the various chars, so won't be too long before I try some of these.

 

Alchemist- The Death Sleep Build

http://da-skills.net...010,0A100,111,1

 

I'm still working on my level run with her, but at level 17 while I make her work, she feels very disjointed and just doesn't quite work nicely for me.

 

Main Idea of this build is to stealth in, drop knockout bomb and then hit the group with toxic cloud. Flank attack helps with keeping you safe in stealth, and with easy to miss and I was never here you should be able to keep stealthing and getting behind enemies to tear them up as you wait for your next knockout punch combo.

 

Arcane Warrior-The Crippler

http://da-skills.net...D,111,B1C,010,A

 

This would be a just for fun build, Arcane warrior is pretty easy to build around the spirit blade. This one would be about crowd control and keeping enemies weakened.

 

Keeper-The Sleeper Keeper

http://da-skills.net...1C1B1,111,111,0

 

This would be another for fun build, a dps/combo keeper, basics are to shock them and then weaken them to put them to sleep. I know *gasp* No Barrier?!?!?!?!?! As I said this is just a for fun build.

 

Reaver-Methodical Carnage

http://da-skills.net...110,110,010,110

 

I want to give something like this a try, with rampage no longer healing you with dragon rage, I wanted to see if a reaver can be built with a more methodical approach, the aim is to hunt for critical hits so that you can chain abilities and weaken enemies.

 

And those are my thoughts, the other chars I either have builds I'm very happy with or they're sort of one dimensional, like archer with longshot.

[Kenny Bania]

THESE BUILDS ARE NOT THE OPTIMAL WAY TO PLAY THESE KITS. THEY'RE OK FOR THREATENING, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT PERILOUS.

[hellbiter88]

Go with whatever is best for you. Just try to strike a good balance for your teammates too. I love messing with different builds, that's how you figure out what you like and what you don't like.

 

Example: lots of people hate full draw. i never go without it. Yes it takes a couple seconds to charge up, but archers shouldn't really be in the thick of battle anyway.

[phoenix fang55]

THESE BUILDS ARE NOT THE OPTIMAL WAY TO PLAY THESE KITS. THEY'RE OK FOR THREATENING, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT PERILOUS.

Read first note, I mainly play threatening, I don't have any HOK rings or crit chance rings, nor some of the best daggers, two handers, or staffs.

 

 

Example: lots of people hate full draw. i never go without it. Yes it takes a couple seconds to charge up, but archers shouldn't really be in the thick of battle anyway.

 

Looking for thougts, and I know what you mean, I like full draw, use it in SP, don't have it on either my hunter or archer, but I don't knock on people using it, I mean just look at the keeper build I wanna try, I'm committing the crime of not having barrier, lol. Or in most of my builds on mages, I take fade step over cloak, I'm addicted to that move.

[Drasca]

I have tried a lot of these abilities, and I'll share some insight on how they work. I'm interested in knowing how the Alchemist works out for you.

 

If you modify that AW build a bit, you can put them to paralyze and sleep, in addition to weaken:
http://da-skills.net...D,110,B1C,111,A

 

Since you aren't doing much damage, you don't need the weaken damage buff. With FC you don't need mind over matter. CC is awesome to have, and so are SC and Stormbringer for combos.

 

Armor is similiarly not useful for AW since it is inactive for barrier damage calculations.

 

Similiarly for the Keeper, you can tune it up a bit for more combos:
http://da-skills.net...0C1B1,010,110,0

 

Drop unnecessary passives, and get the static cage --> exploding bolt synergy.

 

Re: Armor Penetration passives

Armor reduction's utility is very low. 25% armor penetration for the sulivan's blade is worth about 3% damage increase.

 

Relentless attack and It'll Cost you are similarly wasted points. You're guaranteed crits off war horn. You won't need RA. ICY doesn't do enough damage to warrant the point investment.

 

If you go for Crippling Blows, consider putting a lightning rune on to automatically sleep your targets when you shock + weaken them with crits.

 

Devour is underpowered. Consider replacing with dragon rage.

 

 

lots of people hate full draw

 

For good reason. Initially it was the opposite like you. FD was very popular around pugs, and they insisted it did much more damage than it actually did... but they forget about DPS having a time component. No one is going to wait for them to FD when you can CC and kill all the targets before the FD even completes shooting, especially with Long Shot / Archer's Lance shooting 2-3x in the space of one FD.

[Kenny Bania]

Read first note, I mainly play threatening, I don't have any HOK rings or crit chance rings, nor some of the best daggers, two handers, or staffs.

 

I thought it was obvious I wasn't being entirely serious, and was just getting in before a certain other poster did.

[phoenix fang55]

It will Cost you is a passive I actually a passive I beleive in, on my templar and reaver, I've seen the red templar commander go down from hitting me, I can see where some toss it into the useless pile, but its something I like. As for Unforgiving chain, I currently have 2 rogue promotions and no crit chance rings, so between warhorns that passive will push my chance of crits up. Eventually I know it will be a useless perk. As for Devour, its not about damage, its about supplementing healing between rampages as well as single target stagger. Its also a fast finisher as well as has a bit of a lunge on it, so it certainly has some utility, powerful no, but useful, and part of the point was to not use Dragon rage at all, I'm purposefully avoiding it.

 

And I do run Lightning runes on all of my two hand weapons, which was definately why I included that passive.

 

I do see you point on Armor reduction and there are a few passives that would suit better in the first tree.

 

You make some good points on keeper and AW, I'll take some of that into consideration, though on the keeper I'm likely to keep fade step, mostly as I'm addicted to that move.

 

I'll certainly post up my findings on the Alchemist, Honestly I'm very likely to stop my general progression on the other chars and go for building her up as soon as I promote her just to see how that build fairs.

 

I thought it was obvious I wasn't being entirely serious, and was just getting in before a certain other poster did.

Sorry, text can be hard to interrupt tone, and I'm often also on the bungie forums, which can be a very toxic community.

[Drasca]

 between warhorns that passive will push my chance of crits up

 

It is actually more ideal to play Reaver around FW eles and sleep combo keepers / AW's, and the occasional necro / rogue with horror / knockout bomb. Those guys keep enemies almost permanently panicked-- or in the case of a Firewall Ele with Ring of FW, permanently panicked.

 

In that case critical chain is completely useless as deathblow is always in effect for guaranteed crits.

 

I like it'll cost you, and sometimes take it, but generally other ability points take priority. The utility reduces especially as you get better at the game and evade more damage, while dealing more damage killing things before they can touch you.

 

As for the Keeper, you need mana recovery passives, to include restortive veil as a last resort, but mana surge and exploiting winter's stillness is a must when possible. I'd probably drop CL for mind blast to exploit that MS buff for spell damage slinging myself.

 

You can put entire groups to sleep with static cage --> Veilstrike.  Follow it up with exploding bolt for fun.

[Dieb]

If you can make it work, it works. Builds just give you ideas what could be more viable than you may have thought - I neglected Poison for a long time, now I love it.

 

I like your Alchemist!

 

 

Go with whatever is best for you. Just try to strike a good balance for your teammates too. I love messing with different builds, that's how you figure out what you like and what you don't like.

 

Example: lots of people hate full draw. i never go without it. Yes it takes a couple seconds to charge up, but archers shouldn't really be in the thick of battle anyway.

 

I like that attitude.

 

About Full Draw, I don't hate it. It's an awesome, powerful skill. I just think it's a little wasted on the Hunter if one goes for Stealth+KITS+Full Draw, because the Archer is way more useful at single target damage, and always will be.

 

The majority of other Hunters I see whield a LBOTG and stay back with the Archer, firing Explosive Shots and Full Draws into the crowd. Everyone should play the way they want to as long as they're being cooperative, but competing for the top ranged DD position is ultimately a silly non-debate, and wastes the potentially interesting CC / wrangling skills the Hunter has.

[Puffy9999]

why play so much and not play perilous? threatening is pretty simple with any level 8-12 character and avg group. Only get good if you ramp up your game!

if you are level 18-20 anything you should give it a go.  waiting for unique drops seems like the wrong approach.

[hellbiter88]

For good reason. Initially it was the opposite like you. FD was very popular around pugs, and they insisted it did much more damage than it actually did... but they forget about DPS having a time component. No one is going to wait for them to FD when you can CC and kill all the targets before the FD even completes shooting, especially with Long Shot / Archer's Lance shooting 2-3x in the space of one FD.

 

I use full draw preemptively, before the team even makes it to my position. I stealth, go ahead of the group a couple seconds, and FD the most threatening enemy I see--usually red templar skirmishers. Archer's lance is an awesome follow up to that. I'm not talking about holding up the whole team though.

[hellbiter88]

The majority of other Hunters I see whield a LBOTG and stay back with the Archer, firing Explosive Shots and Full Draws into the crowd. Everyone should play the way they want to as long as they're being cooperative, but competing for the top ranged DD position is ultimately a silly non-debate, and wastes the potentially interesting CC / wrangling skills the Hunter has.

 

This would be me. Truthfully I suck at playing hunter, archer, or any non-mage ranged kit. I almost always get killed, unless I have support. I never take an archer into perilous, I just can't use the skills as effectively as I can a mages. That said, I agree with all the people who say archer's lance is more useful than FD. It is. I just like using FD cuz it satisfies me immensely.

[Drasca]

I use full draw preemptively, before the team even makes it to my position. I stealth, go ahead of the group a couple seconds, and FD the most threatening enemy I see--usually red templar skirmishers. Archer's lance is an awesome follow up to that. I'm not talking about holding up the whole team though.

 

I hate ranged players that pull before AoE is cast, melee aggros, or team is ready in a kill zone. I readily yell at them for it. If they're a pug, we'll let them die or kick them if they continue doing so.

 

FD takes out one enemy (maybe) and then jeopardizes the rest of the team. Static Charge, Pota, or FS negates an entire mob group. Who is being selfish here?

 

If you're trolling pugs with it, go ahead, but by no means does that encourage team friendly behaviour.

[HeroicMass]

I hate ranged players that pull before AoE is cast, melee aggros, or team is ready in a kill zone. I readily yell at them for it. If they're a pug, we'll let them die or kick them if they continue doing so.

 

FD takes out one enemy (maybe) and then jeopardizes the rest of the team. Static Charge, Pota, or FS negates an entire mob group. Who is being selfish here?

 

If you're trolling pugs with it, go ahead, but by no means does that encourage team friendly beh

 

 

It has always baffled me that people actually feel the need to "yell" at others for how they play a video game.  It boggles my mind

[russ4ua16]

I have yet to see a hunter that takes advantage of flanking bonuses. Thought about rolling one myself. The archer has a much higher sustained dps but with stealth the hunter can generate zero threat.

[Drasca]

I have yet to see a hunter that takes advantage of flanking bonuses. Thought about rolling one myself. The archer has a much higher sustained dps but with stealth the hunter can generate zero threat.

 

You mean drop threat onto other players (for troll ing purposes, usually).

 

It is possible to gain the flanking bonus even as an archer. A lot of fun actually when you position yourself correctly, especially for a pincushion leaping shot into longshot detonate afterward. Sooo many damage bonuses... led to a 6k cold shatter on a red behemoth.

[hellbiter88]

I hate ranged players that pull before AoE is cast, melee aggros, or team is ready in a kill zone. I readily yell at them for it. If they're a pug, we'll let them die or kick them if they continue doing so.

 

FD takes out one enemy (maybe) and then jeopardizes the rest of the team. Static Charge, Pota, or FS negates an entire mob group. Who is being selfish here?

 

If you're trolling pugs with it, go ahead, but by no means does that encourage team friendly behaviour.

 

Pug with a hunter? Not so much. I'm not talking about the team not being in the kill zone already i'm talking readying the draw as everyone is starting to charge. If you've got a problem with that then that's your deal. Works out well for me and my team. Usually.

 

Edit: and also im not sure I understand why that's jeopardizing the rest of the team. Taking out a massive chunk of pride demon's or red templar commander's guard seems like a decent first step for me. Followed up with archer's lance. Plus a trap I've already laid? What's with all the hostility

[Drasca]

 What's with all the hostility

draw as everyone is starting to charge

 

This is actually the wrong time to do it, in an organized team. When they're aggroed by AoE CC or melee is the correct time.

 

This behaviour is hated because it gives up advantage of surprise. If you aggro too early, especially without communication, you can get the team killed on perilous difficulty and wipe. Even when charging, it is best to let the AoE CC &  melee get as close in as possible before mobs are aggro'ed, so they can perform their attacks before enemies move and start their special skills.

 

Take the despair and rage demons for example. They don't have barrier when not aggro'ed, and there's very often at least two of each. If you can CC them first, you can kill them without issue. If you do not get the surprise ambush on them, they will raise barrier and start their troll attacks, ice beam and ice mine, either killing or performing AoE knockdown through walls, and their scripted auto-jump as they approach. There are many other cases like this.

 

That is wasted time and leads to wipes. One unit of prevention by waiting on the correct time to attack, instead of aggro'ing early,

 

Timing matters. New and ranged players don't understand this unless you've played on the other side.

 

Now if you were on your Ele and decided to firestorm the entire bunch, that's AoE CC and perfectly valid to open with as you've just disabled (almost) everything for your team to kill-- as opposed to kill one enemy while the rest are alert and start their troll attacks.

[hellbiter88]

This is actually the wrong time to do it, in an organized team. When they're aggroed by AoE CC or melee is the correct time.

 

This behaviour is hated because it gives up advantage of surprise. If you aggro too early, especially without communication, you can get the team killed on perilous difficulty and wipe. Even when charging, it is best to let the AoE CC &  melee get as close in as possible before mobs are aggro'ed, so they can perform their attacks before enemies move and start their special skills.

 

Take the despair and rage demons for example. They don't have barrier when not aggro'ed, and there's very often at least two of each. If you can CC them first, you can kill them without issue. If you do not get the surprise ambush on them, they will raise barrier and start their troll attacks, ice beam and ice mine, either killing or performing AoE knockdown through walls, and their scripted auto-jump as they approach. There are many other cases like this.

 

That is wasted time and leads to wipes. One unit of prevention by waiting on the correct time to attack, instead of aggro'ing early,

 

Timing matters. New and ranged players don't understand this unless you've played on the other side.

 

Now if you were on your Ele and decided to firestorm the entire bunch, that's AoE CC and perfectly valid to open with as you've just disabled (almost) everything for your team to kill-- as opposed to kill one enemy while the rest are alert and start their troll attacks.

 

Ok fair point. I didn't think about it that way. In my mind I'm thinking get the jump with the 800% non-damage bonus to give tanks and aggros an easier time, but I can see where setting up cc and AoE first should take priority. Also didn't consider effect of aggro and barrier but you're right about that too.

 

Thankfully I have never subjected a team to my archer's on perilous. I'm still brand new to that class I'd feel guilty if my team had to carry me.

 

Edit: Lemme ask you something else--using an ele, which is more effective to set up initially in room of mobs, choke point or cc w/ barrier?

 

I always set up choke point right away with FW and chaotic focus FM. We usually manage to win but nobody has voice chat ever so idk what's better for those drawing aggro.

[Drasca]

I always set up choke point right away with FW and chaotic focus FM. We usually manage to win but nobody has voice chat ever so idk what's better for those drawing aggro.

 

The answer is yes. If you're actively performing aggro management and funneling enemies into your control (whether door, or aoe CC, etc), you're winning. There are some situations where you can optimize depending on team composition , equipment, in order to pick which to do... but either way you're winning.

 

In general, the tighter packed the enemy mob (archers not spaced out), and higher your player burst damage, the more you want to open with AoE CC like Firestorm. The more spread out an enemy, and fewer AoE CC you have the more you want to door pull / chokepoint.

 

Demons are an exception. You always want to engage demons directly, not lure them due to Ice Mine / Beam trolling during lures. You have to pull all the way across the map if you want to lure demons.

[phoenix fang55]

Full Draw can still be used quite effectively for what you're describing, I mean if your team does things right, all chars are in proper places, ele prepares firestorm but doesn't start it, you tank is waiting with a taunt like counterstrike, then the hunter picks their target, goes to a knee, and the second that you see the numbers go up, ele starts the firestorm and goes, and then lego launches counterstrike to draw all aggro. You just need cordination, but honestly, thats pretty much best for private games, I've had builds I've discarded cause while in a good team setting they'd be perfect, such as my line in the sand templar, but since I pug 99% of the time, the strategy is completely wasted.

 

But thats not why I popped on, I wanted to let those interested that I started working on my Alchemist tonight, got her promoted and back up to around level 13-14 area, still need to clear some passives for her to truely start shining, but this is the build I'm going to run with her in the future, she definitely works on threatening and I even got pulled into a perlious at like level 11 with her and I can see the build working there.

 

Pro's

Knockout Bomb can be used from stealth without it deactivating stealth.

KB can stop whole groups in their tracks, one good AOE gets them moving again, but that precious couple seconds can be a huge help

Toxic cloud does not end sleep

 

cons

Often waiting on cooldowns for your big combo

Have to be a fairly high level to shine, without the passives I was never there, easy to miss, its not wise to stand and fight often.

 

i have not gotten easy to miss, I was never there, and flank attack yet, but those are all obvious pluses that take survivability up several notches. And my testing has been on threatening, but going forward this is the build I'm going to use.

[Drasca]

While FD is technically possible to use, in practice it is much slower and worse dps than multiple longshots. I play with reavers and alongside other forms of dps that would kill everything important before the FD would even finish the animation.

 

Definitely good info to know. Maybe you want to include Shadow Strike into your build for CD reduction? Or flask of fire for KOB's everywhere?

[phoenix fang55]

Both of those are possible choices, but for this first run I'm defiantly going to go with flank attack, SS is a very tempting to take so you can use the KB/TC combo, its kind of a war between more consistent strings of cloak or faster cooldowns.

[Drasca]

Yeah, not like you can't promote and try new builds. Looking forward to the results.