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[KBomb]

In history, the female nude form could represent strength, purity, fertility, beauty, nurturing etc. it was revered and celebrated.

There is nothing vile about a nude form, especially the one in question. If you look at it and see something dirty about it, then maybe you're the one with some issues that need sorting.

[Han Shot First]

Thanks to everyone who posted their anti-women and anti-feminist mindfarts in this thread. We do indeed need feminism more than ever. How sad that so many of the participants might actually be young men. We have raised yet another generation of men with attitudes like this: just horrible.  

 

Sincere condolences to the OP on this avalanche of illogical, nasty, repetitive and hackneyed responses. The one who said that feminism is a minority cause was funny, at least.

 

On the topic of naked women being used as decorations for tier three items, it is a surprise that Bioware should have slipped up on that, but this sort of sexism is really ingrained. As this thread demonstrates, there are many men who are actively resistant to changing their shitty behaviour.   

 

[Wulfram]

Way to take a revered icon and turn into a matter of "sexism."  
 
Look, I've been vocal in the past about a few things that I have felt were unintentionally sexist and I felt could use improvement.  I'm not getting into it now, but I have expressed my viewpoint.  That being said, I find it a tad...disturbing (for lack of a better word) that folks are taking what is more or less a non-sexual nude depiction of Jesus/Joan of Arc for Thedas and turning it into a matter of sexism and the "male gaze."  It isn't supposed to be and this is one of those cases where I feel like it's being made a much bigger deal than it is.
 
If you don't like it, don't use it.  However, please try to stop jumping to the conclusion of "sexism" when it comes to this.  If it was forced; if it was depicted in any sort of lewd or tantalizing manner, then I'd understand.  As it is, I think folks really need to let this one go.  The older I get, the more I realize one of the biggest ways to keep yourself sane.  You pick your battles.  This one isn't worth fighting.
 
Edit: There is also a statue of what appears to be a topless woman holding up a sword in Crossroads.   The nude/topless woman religious icon for the Chantry isn't exclusive to weapons.  It's more sacred than sexual and I think it represents her sacrifice while she was burned alive for her beliefs and for causing an uprising.  The lore is worth reading.  
 
Edit #2: I checked out the codex entry from the Black Emporium for the nude statue of Andraste that's in there.  It wasn't that she was nude so much as the artist put a lot of...intricate details into it.  That was the scandal, or at least my takeaway.  It was that she was depicted so realistically, rather than more of the spiritual image shown above.
 
I don't think it was because she was depicted sans clothing.

Though IIRC Morrigan uses the example of a naked Andraste statue in a chantry as an example of something as incongruous as the Dread Wolf statue in the Temple of Mythal

[Dutchess]

I'm just confused why people keep insisting the naked woman is Andraste, hence a religious symbol, and akin to Christ on the cross. Never mind that Christ is never fully naked. He always has a loincloth covering his modesty. And how does Andraste being naked make sense? The statues in the Chantry and everywhere else we saw in DAO and DA2 were not naked, or even half-naked. She's the Maker's bride, some kind of mother-figure for mankind. Not sure the people of Thedas are so quick to put nude images of their mom everywhere. 

Though the model came from Malcolm's staff. I always assumed the naked woman was supposed to be Leandra and thus that Hawke was walking around with a nude version of their mom hovering over their shoulder.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Thanks to everyone who posted their anti-women and anti-feminist mindfarts in this thread. We do indeed need feminism more than ever. How sad that so many of the participants might actually be young men. We have raised yet another generation of men with attitudes like this: just horrible.  

 

Sincere condolences to the OP on this avalanche of illogical, nasty, repetitive and hackneyed responses. The one who said that feminism is a minority cause was funny, at least.

 

On the topic of naked women being used as decorations for tier three items, it is a surprise that Bioware should have slipped up on that, but this sort of sexism is really ingrained. As this thread demonstrates, there are many men who are actively resistant to changing their shitty behaviour.   

 

I have my doubts that this was a serious post.

 

But, on the off chance that it was, I'd like to point out that a significant number of the people that you just referred to as young men are actually women. Silly is silly, regardless of gender. And your behaviour is easily worse than that of rest of the people posting in here.

 

But I'm still pretty sure you were posting this just to provoke a reaction and insult people.

[Han Shot First]

I'm just confused why people keep insisting the naked woman is Andraste, hence a religious symbol, and akin to Christ on the cross. Never mind that Christ is never fully naked. He always has a loincloth covering his modesty. And how does Andraste being naked make sense? The statues in the Chantry and everywhere else we saw in DAO and DA2 were not naked, or even half-naked. She's the Maker's bride, some kind of mother-figure for mankind. Not sure the people of Thedas are so quick to put nude images of their mom everywhere. 

Though the model came from Malcolm's staff. I always assumed the naked woman was supposed to be Leandra and thus that Hawke was walking around with a nude version of their mom hovering over their shoulder.

 

While religious figures being depicted as nude might be seen as sacrilegious in some faiths, that isn't true for all of them. Many ancient peoples, like the Greeks and Romans for example, occasionally depicted their gods and goddesses nude. It could be that the Andrastians don't view nude depictions of religious figures as sacrilegious, unlike some of the real world Abrahamic faiths.

[Dutchess]

While religious figures being depicted as nude might be seen as sacrilegious in some faiths, that isn't true for all of them. Many ancient peoples, like the Greeks and Romans for example, occasionally depicted their gods and goddesses nude. It could be that the Andrastians don't view nude depictions of religious figures as sacrilegious, unlike some of the real world Abrahamic faiths.

 

Except the parallels with Christianity are very, very obvious. Romans and Greeks tended to be less uptight about nudity anyway, and this tendency is not reflected in Thedosian society either (barring the cases where Bioware felt the urgent need to add generous amounts of cleavage). Heck, they often have sex in their underwear. And again, look at the role that is assigned to Andraste: she's a collective mother figure. Hence the priestesses in the Chantry, the higher-ranking being called "Revered Mother". And what do those mother figures wear?

 

 

Yet the ultimate holy mother of all would be depicted nude? 

 

The way the ancient Roman and Greek artists could depict the human body is magnificent, but it's rather silly to claim a staff design in a video game is of the same level of art just because it has a naked woman on top. I imagine you could defend chainmail bikinis with the same argument then. It's just a somewhat awkward design because it results in a consistent view on a naked bum or vulva hovering at eye-level in cutscenes. I don't think someone is a prude just because they find that a bit weird. I wouldn't really wear such a staff if I were a mage, yet I would place lots of those beautiful ancient Roman statues in my home without hesitation. If I had the space for them...

[Jeffry]

And again, look at the role that is assigned to Andraste: she's a collective mother figure. Hence the priestesses in the Chantry, the higher-ranking being called "Revered Mother". And what do those mother figures wear?

 

Yet the ultimate holy mother of all would be depicted nude?

 

Well I don't see many almost naked bishops and monks running around, yet the son of God is depicted almost naked

 

Btw don't you remember the Gauntlet in DAO? You had to walk naked through the fire as a final test before approaching the Urn, to be cleansed as Andraste was (or how the Guardian said it).

[Frenrihr]

Thanks to everyone who posted their anti-women and anti-feminist mindfarts in this thread. We do indeed need feminism more than ever. How sad that so many of the participants might actually be young men. We have raised yet another generation of men with attitudes like this: just horrible.  

 

Sincere condolences to the OP on this avalanche of illogical, nasty, repetitive and hackneyed responses. The one who said that feminism is a minority cause was funny, at least.

 

On the topic of naked women being used as decorations for tier three items, it is a surprise that Bioware should have slipped up on that, but this sort of sexism is really ingrained. As this thread demonstrates, there are many men who are actively resistant to changing their shitty behaviour.   

 

Please

[Grieving Natashina]

Well I don't see many almost naked bishops and monks running around, yet the son of God is depicted almost naked

 

Btw don't you remember the Gauntlet in DAO? You had to walk naked through the fire as a final test before approaching the Urn, to be cleansed as Andraste was (or how the Guardian said it).

I pointed that out a few days ago.  Apparently it doesn't fit the argument that this is sexist or that's about anything to do with sex, so it was overlooked.  You get a like for bringing that back up to the forefront.  

 

I also think that they only reason why we even saw the underwear on our characters for the final part of the Gaunlet  was due to gameplay/story segregation.  In short, we didn't see the characters actually naked due to game coding, but I always felt it was very heavily implied in that final part of the quest chain.

 

 

Thanks to everyone who posted their anti-women and anti-feminist mindfarts in this thread. We do indeed need feminism more than ever. How sad that so many of the participants might actually be young men. We have raised yet another generation of men with attitudes like this: just horrible.  

 

Sincere condolences to the OP on this avalanche of illogical, nasty, repetitive and hackneyed responses. The one who said that feminism is a minority cause was funny, at least.

 

On the topic of naked women being used as decorations for tier three items, it is a surprise that Bioware should have slipped up on that, but this sort of sexism is really ingrained. As this thread demonstrates, there are many men who are actively resistant to changing their shitty behaviour.   

 

 

You might want to read the all of the posts that share a different POV than the OP, and not just the ones that raise your ire.   Calling pretty much anyone and everyone that disagrees with your viewpoint as "anti-woman/anti-feminist" not only is a blanket stereotype towards the posters in general, especially male ones (you know, just like the "little lady" crap that I know I hate,) but this also makes a lot of folks that are pushing for better representation of women in video games look awful.  Feminism has become a dirty word and when I see such hateful posts like that, I can understand why.  Just because a few have been aggressive and hateful doesn't mean you should respond in kind.  

 

I don't agree with you on this one.  I'm a bisexual lady that has posted about gender equality as well as LGBT representation on this forum.  Some of the folks in this thread have disagreed with me before on those topics, and I haven't backed down from my beliefs.   I still agree with many of them in the sense that I think the OP is seeing sexism where there isn't any.  You might want to think before you make blanket statements like that, because not all of us disagree with you for the same reasons.  _{For Odin's sake...}

 

And if you did have specific posters in mind, and weren't just making a huge negative sweeping statement of the male segment of the BSN, use the quote system next time.  

[SnakeCode]

1st world problems at their best (worst?) Made even better because there isn't actually a problem to begin with.

[Jeffry]

I pointed that out a few days ago.  Apparently it doesn't fit the argument that this is sexist or that's about anything to do with sex, so it was overlooked.  You get a like for bringing that back up to the forefront.  

 

I also think that they only reason why we even saw the underwear on our characters for the final part of the Gaunlet  was due to gameplay/story segregation.  In short, we didn't see the characters actually naked due to game coding, but I always felt it was very heavily implied in that final part of the quest chain.

 

Yeah I remember this has been mentioned and neither the OP nor OP's supporters picked up on it. I don't think they will not either.

 

I think we actually "were" completely naked in that scene and as you said, it was implied. The underwear is there just so we can't run around Ferelden with our peepers and bajingos out, I am not sure the game could have stayed as rated M for mature otherwise. (It was ofc made available with mods later).

[Grieving Natashina]

Yeah I remember this has been mentioned and neither the OP nor OP's supporters picked up on it. I don't think they will not either.

 

I think we actually "were" completely naked in that scene and as you said, it was implied. The underwear is there just so we can't run around Ferelden with our peepers and bajingos out, I am not sure the game could have stayed as rated M for mature otherwise. (It was ofc made available with mods later).

I love your euphasim there.  

[Jeffry]

I love your euphasim there.  

 

It is a reference to probably my favourite TV series

 

Spoiler

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Then I got the Masterwork Sten Sword Grip and found out that it was a naked woman too. You can see it on your hip in most dialogue and close up scenes and since it's white it attracts the eye. It makes no sense that a Qunari "Sten" grip would be of a naked human female!

 

If this is accurate, this really does make zero sense. Qunari don't do sexual attraction, according to them, so why have a naked woman on their sword hilt? I mean, I suppose they could still find it pretty, but why have something *pretty* on their sword grips???  That doesn't seem to really match up to the qunari we've met. At least not the ones strictly adhering to the Qun. o.O (Not to mention it being a human form, instead of a qunari form.)

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

For some reason, I'm always instilled with a sense of dread whenever I see this thread make it's way back up to the top of the page, but anyway...

If this is accurate, this really does make zero sense. Qunari don't do sexual attraction, according to them, so why have a naked woman on their sword hilt? I mean, I suppose they could still find it pretty, but why have something *pretty* on their sword grips???

Okay, but whether it is or isn't appropriate to the Qunari has little to do with the OP'S complaint. This is more of a lore consistency issue.

But the OP didn't single the sten grip out. She mentions the archeron staff as well. Her chief complaint has to do with perceived sexism and the objectification of women.

To me, the real question here is: Do these weapon ornaments represent art or pornography? Presumably, the OP and her *goes back and counts* supporter believe it to be the latter.

Is the point here with these pieces to arouse male gamers? What IS the difference between art and pornography, exactly? Here's a view of the distinction that I feel most might agree with:

"While both art and pornography utilize nude figures, the purpose/motives for portraying the naked body are definitively distinct.  Pornography utilizes nude figures for the pure purpose of stimulating the baser instincts of individuals; instincts that will not be satisfied by that alone.  Art, on the other hand, utilizes nude figures for the purpose of highlighting the beauty of the human body.  While pornography engenders lust, art engenders admiration."

In looking at both of the weapon upgrades carefully, I would describe them as art. Neither one of the figurines is cupping their breasts in a forward-leaning position while blowing a kiss. Nor are either of them lying spread-eagle or depicted as performing fellatio on the weapon handles.

There is nothing vulgar, crass, or lurid at all in the way they've been rendered.

Anyone disagree?

[Fredward]

Dem menz literally own the nude female form. #datpatriarchytho

[DuckTheSecond]

Avert your eyes! The image of metally naked women burns!!

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Jeez

let's just make a giant two handed naked andraste statue a weapon. 

 

YEAH

YOU JUST CRITICAL'D BY SOME DEAD BURNT WOMAN'S ASS

HOW DOES THAT FEEL?!

[Biotic Flash Kick]

IN FACT LET'S GET A DOUBLE BATTERING RAM AND CALL THEM ANDRASTE'S SACRED KNOCKERS