707 réponses à ce sujet

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

Supposing the image of a nude Andraste is considered sacreligious. The OP mentioned it was atop the staff of the Archon. That is of Tevinter origin, who don't follow the white chantry like those in southern Thedas. It's entirely possible that it's supposed to be disrespectful of the white chantry, or perhaps not Andraste at all.

I'm curious about this myself. Are we all just working off what could very well be a false assumption that staff-lady is Andraste?

Furthermore, why is every blacksmith in Thedas meant to be catering specifically to someone known as the "Herald of Andraste?" Surely they have other customers?

If the staff is Tevinter in origin and design then is there any reason why Dorian can't be wielding it? Dorian is a Tevinter mage and someone who could appreciate the beauty of the female form (from an artistic viewpoint) and not regard the staff as something crass.

[DomeWing333]

I'm curious about this myself. Are we all just working off what could very well be a false assumption that staff-lady is Andraste?

Furthermore, why is every blacksmith in Thedas meant to be catering specifically to someone known as the "Herald of Andraste?" Surely they have other customers?

If the staff is Tevinter in origin and design then is there any reason why Dorian can't be wielding it? Dorian is a Tevinter mage and someone who could appreciate the beauty of the female form (from an artistic viewpoint) and not regard the staff as something crass.

It's possible that the figure on the staff isn't Andraste, but she makes the most sense.The Imperium's Chantry believes Andraste to be both a holy prophet of the Maker (though not divine herself) as well as a powerful mage, so it's fitting that the highest ranking mage there would have a staff with her on it.

[Seraphim24]

I think those posting against me are misunderstanding my position. My problem is not with the existence of sexual content in the game. My issue is with the placement of it.

 

The green fade spirit having boobs makes no difference about anything. It that case the use of nudity fits. Likewise, having depictions of artistic nudity at Skyhold or houses is fitting.

 

Where it doesn't fit is over the Inquisitor's shoulder.

 

Also, this has nothing to do with the real world perspective or perception of nudity. This is about how Thedas views it. Andraste is the bride of the Maker. Depicting her on a mage staff with big breasts hanging out is disrespectful at least, sacrilegious at worst. Having a design of a dress on her would make it respectful.

 

The picture of the shirt posted on the previous page, and the story that goes with it, are perfect examples. For those who don't know, some producer guy wore that very shirt to an interview conducted by a woman. His shirt became the focus of the final report on whatever the interview was about. The guy got all kinds of comments about what he wore being inappropriate and sexist and degrading and whatnot. He was forced to apologize. Now, the question isn't so much the shirt itself, but the time and place for wearing it. You would wear it to work if your work entailed producing a video game with a bunch of other guys who get to eat pizza and drink bear while they work. You would not wear a shirt like that to church.

 

And that's what the issue is here. The Inquisitor is basically the church service, and the Andraste staff of big boobage is the shirt.

 

No one is saying to take sex or nudity out of Dragon Age. Just don't depict it at times when the situation calls for reverence and respect.

 

Your problem is with the existence of sexual content in the game, period. All this "time and place stuff" is a distraction and ex-post justification for your core discomfort (that other's don't share)

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

Your problem is with the existence of sexual content in the game, period. All this "time and place stuff" is a distraction and ex-post justification for your core discomfort (that other's don't share)

Look, the game has a nudity and sexual content warning label right on the box. If Dai truly had a problem with it, he wouldn't have purchased the game in the first place.

Besides which, if you really wanted to rail against the nudity and sexual content of DAI, you'd go straight to the sex/nudity scenes between the characters as your first port of call, not friggin' weapon ornamentation.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The funniest part is when there are serious discussions...

 

They are the thread's fuel, after all...

[doctor michael]

Worst. Complaint. Ever!!

[Dai Grepher]

I dunno if you've noticed or not, but...

 

In the world of Thedas, people tend to be a little less concerned by what is considered "appropriate" or "respectful".

 

People in Thedas are far more open minded than people here, on this cesspool Earth.

 

For instance... we have a very religious devout Leliana.. who, simultaneously, is a spy that kills off people. On another level, she is quite promiscuous, which would be considered immoral by conservative standards.

 

I wonder, do you find it disrespectful and appropriate when the Inquisition get together out of work/kill hours, and play the equivalent to a real life strip poker?

 

Is it offensive when Cullen strips off his gear... cause, this really isn't appropriate for a group like the Inquisition, right?

 

I also find it ironic how you say "it relates to Thedas, not the real world" (paraphrasing) when you don't take into account that even people in Thedas, who are religious, aren't exactly uptight conservatives, thus are quite open-minded and really couldn't give two tosses about Andraste's golden t*ts on their weapons...

 

Far more open minded in Thedas than in the real world? Even thought they practice slavery and we don't?

 

Cersei is rolling her eyes so hard right now.

 

Leliana WAS promiscuous. She no longer was once she was enlisted by the Chantry. Her killings were a point of contention for her and for Justinia. Something both can regret and feel back about, but in some cases it was necessary to secure safety for the Divine and the Chantry.

 

What they Inquisition does in private is an example of time and place. My point exactly. The issue here is a staff design that the Inquisitor would carry about in public.

 

Even if most people would not care, some would, especially the Orlesian nobles who will find any reason they can to complain.
 

[ThreeF]

Far more open minded in Thedas than in the real world? Even thought they practice slavery and we don't?

Wouldn't call it open minded but there is a difference in culture between Thedas and rl. Same kind of difference that allowed Ancient Greece to practice democracy and own slaves, to be homophobic and allow same sex relationships. So what applies now in rl might not apply in Thedas.

[Dai Grepher]

The image I posted previously had a replica of Malcolm's Honor, unique DA 2 staff. He crafted it himself and had no problems using it before his children and leaving it as his legacy to them. One of these children is a very devoted andrastian, rather shy and sheltered. Ingame facts.

If people in Thedas like Malcolm and Bethany Hawke had no problems using this staff, maybe andrastians have different views on this matter than IRL religions and it doesn't bother them.

 

Malcom and Bethany (and possibly mage Hawke) were also apostates. If they revered the Chantry so much then they would not have dodged it laws. Not saying you're necessarily wrong about them, but this isn't a good example if you're trying to prove your point. Sorry. This is the Inquisitor we're talking about here, not some random hedgey.

[Dai Grepher]

What facts? The facts you can provide show that most people in Thedas respect Andraste. Obviously not everyone. But let's say she is to be revered. That's not enough to support your point. To go from "Andraste is to be revered" to "the staff is disrespecting her" you also need "depicting a religious figure's boobs on a staff is disrespectful". By what Thedas' facts can you support the last one?

 

Unless it's not about Thedas' facts and you want to bridge that "gap" in your argument with your own morality, simply because you're consumer. By that logic, someone else who's also a consumer can say that such depictions aren't disrespectful. What now? The staff both is and isn't disrespectful at the same time? Nonesense, trying to build this on your own morality, simply because you're a customer leads to such oxymora.

 

As a consumer, you can have your likes and dislikes. You can voice your opinion on what you enjoy and what you don't, on what you'd want to have more or less. That's fine. That's why the forums exist, it's perfectly welcome to do that. However, jumping from "I dislike x" to "there's something questionable/wrong/disrespectful about x" without any evidence, other than your personal tastes/feelings is simply fallacious.

 

All I know is my own perspective and discernment of the game world, and it's the same with the OP. The point is that carrying the staff around seems like it would be inappropriate to most people in Thedas in our estimation. The request is that the staff design have some decency to it. I don't think this is a difficult issue to understand.

 

As for how people in Thedas view it, I think that would depend on the culture of each nation. Ferelden probably would not like it at all. Orlais would not care, or they would complain about it just for show. Tevinter, the ones who allegedly made the staff, would see nothing wrong with it. Or maybe Tevinter made it just to get the goats of those in the white Chantry.

 

The point is that some players perceive the staff as displaying disrespect, and thus unfitting Inquisitors who revere Andraste, embrace the title of Herald, or at least present the appearance of being supportive of the Chantry. You are of course free to disagree and believe the opposite. Good for you. The OP and I are just posting our 2¢.

 

I think there are some pieces of evidence that support my opinion, but I didn't think that was the point of this thread. I'm not saying the game should be patched for this, but this is the feedback forum. A place for players to post their... feedback. If you want evidence, fine. But... why exactly? What difference does it make if our opinions have evidence or not? It's just our opinions.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The point is that some players perceive the staff as displaying disrespect, and thus unfitting Inquisitors who revere Andraste, embrace the title of Herald, or at least present the appearance of being supportive of the Chantry.

 

And again, you keep claiming that your beef is that it is inappropriate in the world of Thedas, when it is clearly not, or it wouldn't be there.

 

You won't admit that it is your own sensitivity that causes you to have issue with it. A sensitivity that isn't shared by others. Claiming that it is disrespectful is an attempt to mask that you are personally offended.

 

If you are personally offended, just say so. It would be a far more respectable position to take than declaring that you have the correct interpretation of what is acceptable in Thedas, but that the game's own creators and developers do not.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Why do I keep answering these people seriously!? 

 

 

Silliness antidote.

[DomeWing333]

Malcom and Bethany (and possibly mage Hawke) were also apostates. If they revered the Chantry so much then they would not have dodged it laws. Not saying you're necessarily wrong about them, but this isn't a good example if you're trying to prove your point. Sorry. This is the Inquisitor we're talking about here, not some random hedgey.

Being a devout Andrastian =/= Revering the Chantry =/= thinking that all of its laws are flawless and should be followed no matter what. The fact that Malcolm and Bethany were apostates in no way diminishes the fact that they were devout Andrastians. 

[Dai Grepher]

But that is exactly your interpretation based on your personal sentiments about how it would apply in the real world. In a fictional world, if the people who created that world deem the depiction of Andraste in that manner to be an acceptable use of the symbol, then by definition, within the context of that world, it is appropriate.

 

It is most certainly not sacrilegious.

 

Your reference to "big breasts hanging out" is an entirely personal assessment, and again has no bearing on the context of a fictional world as interpreted by its own creators.

 

I don't believe anyone has misunderstood you, at all.

 

 

 

Your assessment is clearly biased. You have utterly glossed over the harassment and abuse that he suffered over that. What was done to him was entirely inappropriate, regardless of how one feels about the shirt that he was wearing.

 

And I'm pretty sure that the ESA sets the standards for what is acceptable for their employees, not you.

 

 

Battling in the field is not a church service. People are not at a church service 100% of the time that they are travelling around, which is when the staff appears. And the size of the breasts should hardly be relevant to your point, which makes me wonder why you have now mentioned that several times.

 

The only occasion the Inquisitor is at a church-like location is the garden at Skyhold, at which time the staff does not appear.

 

 

But it is your personal assessment of what situation calls for reverence and respect, not the actual creators of the world. And you have deemed those situations to be 95% of the game, which is incredibly broad, and makes no real sense in context.

 

No, it's my opinion of how Thedas would view it. Granted, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Therefore it is my opinion that a pro-Chantry Inquisitor carrying that around in public would be viewed unfavorably.

 

What the shirt guy suffered has nothing to do with this discussion. How does his suffering and hardship change this issue in any way? The point is that people found his shirt inappropriate for the time and place in which he wore it, justly or unjustly, right or wrong. Tis the same case with the staff.

 

I'm not talking about battling in the field. I'm talking about in public places like Orlais or Redcliffe.

 

The point about the breast size is that the design specifically accentuates and draws attention to the breasts. It isn't like a vague general design, it's concentrated on the whole... booby area.

 

All that said, I give the staff to Dorian for irony purposes (or Solas for that matter), or Vivienne if in Orlais. But no, my Inquisitor does not carry it.

[Dai Grepher]

Last I checked, paying customers don't get to decide the canon of a video game. The developers and creators do.

 

 

What facts? You haven't made reference to a single in-game fact about the world that supports your position. Everything you have said is entirely a matter of subjective personal opinion.

 

Correct. It's my opinion. I never claimed otherwise. And I am not trying to decide canon, I am just giving my opinion.
 

[Semyaza82]

  Depicting a religious figure in the nude isn't necessarily in any way sacrilegious. For RL examples look at pretty much any pieces of Greco-Roman art showing the gods. Even if you want to argue that only Christian art works as a parallel then there are plenty of images of a naked Christ (the Sagrada Família in Barcelona has a fairly large one carved on the outside for example).

[Dai Grepher]

Everyone disagreeing with you is a paying customer too. Should Bioware listen to you and the OP over everybody else? Oh, and as customers it isn't place to decide what's allowed in the game and what isn't. We aren't patrons.

 

Facts, what facts? We are dealing with opinions here . The only fact is there is a staff with a naked woman's figure atop it. Whether it's appropriate, placed correctly etc is entirely your opinion.

 

BioWare should do what it thinks is best. I think having a staff that shows a little decency so that prudish Inquisitors can carry it would be the best choice for BioWare. They would appease those players, no matter how few, and it would make no difference to the majority of players. Would you complain if they slightly altered the staff to show some semblance of clothing?

 

Yes, it's my opinion, but I base my opinion on facts that I see in the series. But at the end of the day, this is just my opinion. So what difference does it make to you? Disagree with my opinion and move on.
 

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm just waiting for another round of, "But it's based on Judeo-Christianity, which has problems with nudity."  Followed by the counter of, "It's fantasy, they shouldn't have to follow our world exactly."  Countered with "But if they based it on the Catholic church, they should have problems with nudity."  Followed with "Plenty of other religions outside of Christanity consider nudity a sacred symbol of purity."  Then countered from there.

 

Coffee anyone?

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

No, it's my opinion of how Thedas would view it. Granted, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Therefore it is my opinion that a pro-Chantry Inquisitor carrying that around in public would be viewed unfavorably.

 

Obviously it was not viewed unfavorably, as anyone who played the game can tell you.

 

 

What the shirt guy suffered has nothing to do with this discussion. How does his suffering and hardship change this issue in any way? The point is that people found his shirt inappropriate for the time and place in which he wore it, justly or unjustly, right or wrong. Tis the same case with the staff.

 

You brought it up, and now you get to decide what about it is relevant?

 

And it's not the same as with the staff. The man in question was not fighting demons in a fictional world. The comparison is absurd.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

 

I have to stop touching it, really. 

[Dai Grepher]

The point is that nude human bodies aren't inherently in opposition to reverence and respect. While it would be inappropriate to sexualize the Bride of the Maker, depicting her nude but in an ascending, spiritual pose isn't sexualizing her any more than depicting a nude or semi-nude Jesus Christ on the cross sexualizes him. No one looks at a depiction of Jesus on the cross and thinks "Someone cover up those abs! The Son of God needs to retain his modesty!"

 

I don't think that's a good example. Jesus was crucified without much clothing on, as was the practice, since he endured lashes from the cat o' nine tails. Pretty hard to keep clothing on when struck with one of those over and over.

 

Andraste on the other hand was set on fire with her clothes (and probably armor) still being worn. She was also stabbed before her body could be completely engulfed. No historical account of Andraste claimed she lacked clothing. All Chantry depictions of her show her as robed in white at the very least.

 

So the comparison is flawed. Jesus' depiction is of historical nature.