1194 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

I think you're missing the point by quite a bit.

 

In fact, the point is almost the opposite of what you said. The problem is not that the ending is a 'big boss battle.' The problem is that, for all intents and purposes, it isn't a 'big boss battle.' Or anything else.

 

A 'big boss battle,' in the sense of a narratively climatic struggle, is precisely what's missing. The problem with the ending is that it isn't a 'big battle' in any narrative sense at all. It's a chore. It never portrays any kind of real conflict and thus never enunciates any themes or qualities. 

No bw game has the climax as a boss battle. The climax is always making a choice. As I said before your looking at the wrong part of the plot.

[BabyPuncher]

That's basically true, which I why I made sure to add the "or anything else" at the end of the second paragraph.

[leaguer of one]

That's basically true, which I why I made sure to add the "or anything else" at the end of the second paragraph.

*Face palm.

 

DAI climax was an "anything else". It was the well of sarrows. The entire arbor wild was the start of end of dai.

[BabyPuncher]

Why are people so impressed by this?

 

Yes, there's some mildly interesting premises set up, but I really can't decipher anything meaningful from any it, and won't be able to until the next game. Flemeth being more than just a powerful human was obvious, and I thought the epilogue with Solus was more silly than anything else. That's really all we know concretely, aside from the elves wiping themselves out I suppose. I still don't know what Flemeth ever actually wanted, or what the binding of the well entailed, and seeing as she looks pretty dead, there's a very good chance that won't change.

 

Same with Solus. No clue on what he wants, what he's been doing, what his plans are, what his powers are, or even really what he actually is.

 

It doesn't matter. The conflict of Inquisition is the Breach and Corypheus. Not Flemeth and Solus.

[leaguer of one]

Why are people so impressed by this?

 

Yes, there's some mildly interesting premises set up, but I really can't decipher anything meaningful from any it, and won't be able to until the next game. Flemeth being more than just a powerful human was obvious, and I thought the epilogue with Solus was more silly than anything else. That's really all we know concretely, aside from the elves wiping themselves out I suppose. I still don't know what Flemeth ever actually wanted, or what the binding of the well entailed, and seeing as she looks pretty dead, that's a very good chance that won't change.

 

Same with Solus. No clue on what he wants, what he's been doing, what his plans are, what his powers are, or even really what he actually is.

 

It doesn't matter. The conflict of Inquisition is the Breach and Corypheus. Not Flemeth and Solus.

Flemeth being a powerful human is obvious but a freaking elven god? Nope. And the well of sorrows  consiquece is more then what you are reading it. Finding out you may of became her slave is the consequence. Consequences can be negative or positive. Also, how that plays out in the future is going to show first in dlc. And Solas' epilogue is no way silly. How is finding out he was the one responsible for the bread silly? And you don't listen to Flemeth at all do you. She tells you what she wants and her goal...just not how she's going to do it. And we know what the binding entails we just don't know what it's going to make us do yet or what it could save us from.

And Solas does tell you his plans from the start of the game. And it was in the conversion about who the elves were.

And it does matter. The story is about finding out who open the breach, why, what lead to it, and stopping it from happening again. Remember the issue with Cory was he was trying to open a way into the fade. Every action you did was about stopping him from doing that. Everything from the start of the arbor wilds to the epilogue is relative to the plot

[BabyPuncher]

Flemeth being a powerful human is obvious but a freaking elven god? Nope. And the well of sorrows  consiquece is more then what you are reading it. Finding out you may of became her slave is the consequence. Consequences can be negative or positive. Also, how that plays out in the future is going to show first in dlc. And Solas' epilogue is no way silly. How is finding out he was the one responsible for the bread silly? And you don't listen to Flemeth at all do you. She tells you what she wants and her goal...just not how she's going to do it. And we know what the binding entails we just don't know what it's going to make us do yet or what it could save us from.

And Solas does tell you his plans from the start of the game. And it was in the conversion about who the elves were.

And it does matter. The story is about finding out who open the breach, why, what lead to it, and stopping it from happening again. Remember the issue with Cory was he was trying to open a way into the fade. Every action you did was about stopping him from doing that. Everything from the start of the arbor wilds to the epilogue is relative to the plot

 

We really have no idea how responsible Solus was. All we really know is that the orb belonged to him. How Corypheus got it is unknown.

I don't remember Flemeth saying anything about what her long-term goal was.

We don't know what the binding entails, because we don't know how or if Flemeth intends to use it. We don't know the extent of its control.

We don't even know if Flemeth is dead or not.

We don't know Solus' plans at all.
 

[leaguer of one]

We really have no idea how responsible Solus was. All we really know is that the orb belonged to him. How Corypheus got it is unknown.

I don't remember Flemeth saying anything about what her long-term goal was.

We don't know what the binding entails, because we don't know how or if Flemeth intends to use it. We don't know the extent of its control.

We don't even know if Flemeth is dead or not.

We don't know Solus' plans at all.
 

1. It his orb and he gave it to Cory. Sorry, clearly his fault the breach open. You can't even argue around that.

2.What? You not listening to her at all.

"She was betrayed and I was betrayed- As the  world was betrayed! Mythal  clawed and crawled throughout the ages tome and I will see her avenged!"

That her goal it you have not noticed yet. She yells this at you. She does not yell who she is going take down and how but well already know clearly she want to avenge Mythal.

3. Yes we do. It control us at her will. What she want us to do is a separate thing from understand what the binding does. The most you can say is we don't know what she going to make us do not what the binding do.

4.And yes we do know she dead.

 

5.

It time to understand you need to put to the peace together.

[Eliastion]

I don't remember Flemeth saying anything about what her long-term goal was.

I guess he thinks that VENGEAAAANCE is somehow revealing what her plans were, even without those pesky details like "vengeance on who, exactly?"

Also, if it was supposed to be a coherent ending, then they shouldn't have put two visits in Skyhold between Arbor Wilds and the final... encounter?
I'm glad you liked the ending, leaguer, but it was not planned or executed well. The decision in AW was unsubstantial and was made seemingly completely irrelevant by the post-credits cutscene. The battle in AW lacked scope and didn't feel special at all, the fight with Cory was boring. And treating it all as ending is a huge stretch since nothing says "no we end that part and start the next one" like a visit in Skyhold (with war table missions, possibly some romance-related stuff and other skyholdy activities) and a short episode of hunting a dragon to help you in the "final battle" - you're pretty much back to your ordinary activity of gathering allies and means of fighting Cory. Perhaps Arbor Wilds were supposed to be part of the ending - but they were not. Or, if they were, the credits got terribly delayed with lots of rubbish squeezed in between the ending and them.

[In Exile]

I think you're missing the point by quite a bit.

In fact, the point is almost the opposite of what you said. The problem is not that the ending is a 'big boss battle.' The problem is that, for all intents and purposes, it isn't a 'big boss battle.' Or anything else.

A 'big boss battle,' in the sense of a narratively climatic struggle, is precisely what's missing. The problem with the ending is that it isn't a 'big battle' in any narrative sense at all. It's a chore. It never portrays any kind of real conflict and thus never enunciates any themes or qualities.

Are we back to you not understanding a theme a *third* time? The final battle is incredible significant narrative-wise, having a great deal of symbolism and generally being a mirror of the first encounter with Corypheus in the same way they the post-Haven content is a mirror of the first part of the game.

The final battle may well be unsatisfying gameplay wish, but it's not in terms of the narrative.

[leaguer of one]

I guess he thinks that VENGEAAAANCE is somehow revealing what her plans were, even without those pesky details like "vengeance on who, exactly?"

Also, if it was supposed to be a coherent ending, then they shouldn't have put two visits in Skyhold between Arbor Wilds and the final... encounter?
I'm glad you liked the ending, leaguer, but it was not planned or executed well. The decision in AW was unsubstantial and was made seemingly completely irrelevant by the post-credits cutscene. The battle in AW lacked scope and didn't feel special at all, the fight with Cory was boring. And treating it all as ending is a huge stretch since nothing says "no we end that part and start the next one" like a visit in Skyhold (with war table missions, possibly some romance-related stuff and other skyholdy activities) and a short episode of hunting a dragon to help you in the "final battle" - you're pretty much back to your ordinary activity of gathering allies and means of fighting Cory. Perhaps Arbor Wilds were supposed to be part of the ending - but they were not. Or, if they were, the credits got terribly delayed with lots of rubbish squeezed in between the ending and them.

We don't need to know who she wants vengence on to know what her goal is. Who is just part of the where and how of her plan. The fact we know she want revenge is all we need to know what her goal is which is a big deal being that it gives a better view on why she's been manipulating people over the years. And of course the aw was substanctial. We know it's going to effect the pc in way they don't understand and the post credit scene just show it will be Solas who will have that control now.(He took all her powers). And the break in sky hold was not about gathering allies, at that point you have no more allies to get. It's about understanding what you got from the well of sarrows and how to use the info. It's just you guys planning and preping to kill cory. The fact the of all the quest in the game the arbor wild connects to the final battle the most means it's part of the ending.

[Eliastion]

We don't need to know who she wants vengence on to know what her goal is. Who is just part of the where and how of her plan. The fact we know she want revenge is all we need to know what her goal is which is a big deal being that it gives a better view on why she's been manipulating people over the years. And of course the aw was substanctial. We know it's going to effect the pc in way they don't understand and the post credit scene just show it will be Solas who will have that control now.(He took all her powers). And the break in sky hold was not about gathering allies, at that point you have no more allies to get. It's about understanding what you got from the well of sarrows and how to use the info. It's just you guys planning and preping to kill cory. The fact the of all the quest in the game the arbor wild connects to the final battle the most means it's part of the ending.

You're simply wrong. Vengeance is, by definition, directed against somebody and this somebody is crucial. The means of vengeance might be details, but knowing whether someone wants to take vengeance upon you, your enemy or some third party that could be important is absolutely needed before you can say that you know the avenger's goal. What we learnt was Flemeth's motivation, not her goal. And these are two very different things.

Also, about the consequences of drinking from the well, that's obviously bs. You were bound to serve Mythal, not some power somebody has stolen from her unless he also became Mythal. Saying that you're bound to Solas now has it's place - in one of those wild speculation threads. You were bound to seemingly dead godess, then you learn that she lives and doesn't really want anything from you (in one case even explicitly saying that she was curious and anted to see who drank, and now he did, and he is free). Of course, she could be lying or she could change her mind, but then she dies. And nothing but some paranoid speculation that you just became a slave of anybody else. But if you actually did? Well, guess what, you're now a slave of someone who has one consistent trait: he despises the idea of slavery from the bottom of his heart and if there's anything he holds sacred it would be free will. Oh, the ominous slavery it would be, after all that mental gymnastics to believe that he actually has this power over you now.

And sorry, but trying to convince me that learning how to get yourself a dragon for the final confrontation definitely counts as gathering allies. Also, AW is just the last of arc-ending quests, connected to the final confrontation mostly by being the second-last in chain of story quests. That's hardly a strong connection. Not to mention that there is no feeling of time pressure between it and the final bossfight. You had the feeling of urgency with Breach, with Adamant, with Arbor Wilds. But then? We might just as well chill out, we just learned the Cory won't hide, so we just wait for him to resurface, do some preparations in the meantime, maybe go shopping, wrap up some unfinished romances or something? Sounds good. We have all the time in the world!

[leaguer of one]

You're simply wrong. Vengeance is, by definition, directed against somebody and this somebody is crucial. The means of vengeance might be details, but knowing whether someone wants to take vengeance upon you, your enemy or some third party that could be important is absolutely needed before you can say that you know the avenger's goal. What we learnt was Flemeth's motivation, not her goal. And these are two very different things.

Also, about the consequences of drinking from the well, that's obviously bs. You were bound to serve Mythal, not some power somebody has stolen from her unless he also became Mythal. Saying that you're bound to Solas now has it's place - in one of those wild speculation threads. You were bound to seemingly dead godess, then you learn that she lives and doesn't really want anything from you (in one case even explicitly saying that she was curious and anted to see who drank, and now he did, and he is free). Of course, she could be lying or she could change her mind, but then she dies. And nothing but some paranoid speculation that you just became a slave of anybody else. But if you actually did? Well, guess what, you're now a slave of someone who has one consistent trait: he despises the idea of slavery from the bottom of his heart and if there's anything he holds sacred it would be free will. Oh, the ominous slavery it would be, after all that mental gymnastics to believe that he actually has this power over you now.

And sorry, but trying to convince me that learning how to get yourself a dragon for the final confrontation definitely counts as gathering allies. Also, AW is just the last of arc-ending quests, connected to the final confrontation mostly by being the second-last in chain of story quests. That's hardly a strong connection. Not to mention that there is no feeling of time pressure between it and the final bossfight. You had the feeling of urgency with Breach, with Adamant, with Arbor Wilds. But then? We might just as well chill out, we just learned the Cory won't hide, so we just wait for him to resurface, do some preparations in the meantime, maybe go shopping, wrap up some unfinished romances or something? Sounds good. We have all the time in the world!

Understand who the vengeance is  going to be places on only important in know who it is going to applied to. It has nothing to do with knowing it a person is going to act on revenge. We her goals, revenge, knowing who she is directing it to is not need to understand her goals. It's just background info. The rest of the info it just there for us to understand why. We don't need to no who she's being revenge on to understand her goal is revenge. That's logic.

 

And Motive is goal. You're confusing how with what. And we already have her motive as well. And that's what happen to Mythrail andFlemeth as two different people.

And you clearly doing understand that we are control by Mythral with her powers not her person. She only controls us with her power...which Solas has now. It's not a speculation. It's 1+1 =2.

And you can't say she want nothing of you. She is a being that manipulates everyone.

And yes Solas hate slaver...but he will do anything to get to his goal. This is a man who gave Cory the power to open into the fade. If he sees that using the binding gets him to his goal he will us it...just like he is willing to kill a friend to get more power.

 

And gaining that dragon is just preparation. The entire point of that was learn how to stop Cory. And you did fell the urgency of time in the last fight, the breach was reopen and swallowing up the world.

[Eliastion]

Understand who the vengeance is  going to be places on only important in know who it is going to applied to. It has nothing to do with knowing it a person is going to act on revenge. We her goals, revenge, knowing who she is directing it to is not need to understand her goals. It's just background info. The rest of the info it just there for us to understand why. We don't need to no who she's being revenge on to understand her goal is revenge. That's logic.

You still confuse motivation with goal.
 

And Motive is goal.

No it's not.
 

You're confusing how with what. And we already have her motive as well. And that's what happen to Mythrail andFlemeth as two different people.

You're confusing things. Look:
- What do you want to do?
- Kill Ben.
- How?
- Smack him with a plank.
Makes sense, right? But you want it to go:
- What do you want to do?
- Kill.
- How?
- Ben.
Look at this conversation and think again where "how" belongs and what "what" consists of.
 

And you clearly doing understand that we are control by Mythral with her powers not her person. She only controls us with her power...which Solas has now. It's not a speculation. It's 1+1 =2.

If you paid attention, you would know that what binds you is allegiance to person (enforced by thousands of priest-voices in your head), not to any power said person wields.
 

And you can't say she want nothing of you. She is a being that manipulates everyone.

Manipulates, perhaps, for a long time. Orders? Not so much. She helps you, presumably it somehow serves her agenda too.
 

And yes Solas hate slaver...but he will do anything to get to his goal. This is a man who gave Cory the power to open into the fade. If he sees that using the binding gets him to his goal he will us it...just like he is willing to kill a friend to get more power.

YMMV but I got a strong impression that killing a friend was a much acceptable thing to him than resolving to what amounts to slavery.
 

And gaining that dragon is just preparation. The entire point of that was learn how to stop Cory. And you did fell the urgency of time in the last fight, the breach was reopen and swallowing up the world.

Oh, yeah, DURING last fight. When you actually decided to go there. Only then is the breach reopened. If it happened right at the end of Arbor Wilds, it would be different, but it was not. After AW and possibly getting the dragon you were free to do whatever waiting for Cory to kindly reveal himself and get killed.

[X Equestris]

I didn't think the ending to Inquisition was out of this world, but it was serviceable.
 
The game might have benefited from a campaign mission to bridge the gap between "What Pride Had Wrought" and "Doom Upon All The World." The temple in the Arbor Wilds was really interesting, especially when you consider that the Elven guardians were descended from the original priests. I just didn't enjoy clicking on the final mission and immediately being plunked down in front of Corypheus.
 
That being said, it was pretty analogous to the ending for DA: Origins.
 
Step one: fight big bad (Arch Demon in Origins and Corypheus in Inquisition).
 
Step two: celebrate victory with a low key party where you chat up your companions one last time.
 
Step three: Trigger the credits and then wait around for DLC.
 
The only difference was that Origins had a 15 or so minute lead up to the climactic boss fight ... but I wouldn't say a few darkspawn make the difference between a great ending and "the worst ending since ME3" as the original poster said. Nothing like hyperbole.

I have to agree that another story mission would have been nice. We could have found our counter to Cory after the Well of Sorrows, then gone after his hideout (this would be the extra story mission) with what troops we have, find out he has gone to the Temple of Sacred Ashes to reopen the Breach, and fight him there. Those two missions could have been connected. Maybe we could have fought the demons falling out of the Breach, to make it feel more like a real story mission.

Ultimately, though, Inquisition's current ending works for me.

[leaguer of one]

You still confuse motivation with goal.
 

No it's not.
 

You're confusing things. Look:
- What do you want to do?
- Kill Ben.
- How?
- Smack him with a plank.
Makes sense, right? But you want it to go:
- What do you want to do?
- Kill.
- How?
- Ben.
Look at this conversation and think again where "how" belongs and what "what" consists of.
 

If you paid attention, you would know that what binds you is allegiance to person (enforced by thousands of priest-voices in your head), not to any power said person wields.
 

Manipulates, perhaps, for a long time. Orders? Not so much. She helps you, presumably it somehow serves her agenda too.
 

YMMV but I got a strong impression that killing a friend was a much acceptable thing to him than resolving to what amounts to slavery.
 

Oh, yeah, DURING last fight. When you actually decided to go there. Only then is the breach reopened. If it happened right at the end of Arbor Wilds, it would be different, but it was not. After AW and possibly getting the dragon you were free to do whatever waiting for Cory to kindly reveal himself and get killed.

1. We already know her motive and who she is trying to kill is not part of that. Her wanting vengeance is not a motive it's a goal. Motive is why you what to do things not what you want to do. Vengeance is never a motive, it just something a person wants to do. Why they want to do is motive.

2.And your point with ben make it clear you don't get that. We don't need to know the who or how to know the goal.

3. And you need to what the scene with Flemeth again. The only time Morrigan or the quis is held back by the binding is when Flemeth literally use her power. You know, the time her eyes changed color. Morrigan was even starting to attack and was about to untill Flemeth used her power of Mythel to stop her. So yes, the binding is to the power not the person.

 

4.It matter not if she manipulates or orders. She still getting you to do what she want whether you like it or not. That's the issue.

5.Sorry but the point still stand he will do anything to get to his goal. If he can kill a friend he can do anything.

6.It opens well before the last fight happen. It happen when you are at the war table, not when you reach there. The point is the fact it's open and opening fast then before means there is urgency.

[Ash Wind]

The problem with the ending, and the main story at large is it lacks the usual dramatic narrative. Building to the finale, things usually get worse and worse for the protagonist leading up to the climatic ending, which usually causes the protagonist, in the face of overwhelming odds, to pull victory from the jaws of certain defeat, but that doesn't happen in DAI.

 

Cory is a weak antagonist. He smacks you down at Haven and a tone is set... you're thinking awesome, not only is the world breaking apart at the seams, I have this maniac that might become a living god.

 

I felt his appearance at Haven was well done in the dramatic sense and had the potenial to set a dark and sinister tone, but instead, that's where the game and story fail big time.

 

BW lets the Inquisitor off the hook. Haven is Cory's triumphant moment, and it happens much to soon in the story. After that he is turned basically into an angry clown whose only purpose in the story is to put up weak road blocks that are easily defeated or countered.

 

After Haven, instead of things getting worse for the Inquisition, it gets better and stronger, leading to the inevitable conclusion that the clown will be defeated, and at not all that much of a sacrifice. Cory is a nusance at this point, not an antagonist.

 

Few things elucidate this more than the Well of Sorrows. Yeah, he's the big baddie, he can die and come back... and yet at the conclusion of the Well of Sorrows mission, he is little more than comic relief as he crashes into the Eluvian like Wile E. Coyote.

 

#clowned

[ConquiringChild]

Why are people so impressed by this?

 

Yes, there's some mildly interesting premises set up, but I really can't decipher anything meaningful from any it, and won't be able to until the next game. Flemeth being more than just a powerful human was obvious, and I thought the epilogue with Solus was more silly than anything else. That's really all we know concretely, aside from the elves wiping themselves out I suppose. I still don't know what Flemeth ever actually wanted, or what the binding of the well entailed, and seeing as she looks pretty dead, there's a very good chance that won't change.

 

Same with Solus. No clue on what he wants, what he's been doing, what his plans are, what his powers are, or even really what he actually is.

 

It doesn't matter. The conflict of Inquisition is the Breach and Corypheus. Not Flemeth and Solus.

 

 

Hi Baby,

 

did noticed what Flemeth asked to Solas ?  She spoke about his Archon: "why you gave your Archon to Corypheus ? " - So, Solas is the Dread Wolf and Flemeth drank from the well and paid the price. 

 

I hope to see Morrigan become a dragon in the next title of DA franchise and the conflict between ancient gods, the dread wolf´s plot against the gods and the war between Tevinter and Qunari become more clear.

[Eliastion]

1. We already know her motive and who she is trying to kill is not part of that. Her wanting vengeance is not a motive it's a goal. Motive is why you what to do things not what you want to do. Vengeance is never a motive, it just something a person wants to do. Why they want to do is motive.

2.And your point with ben make it clear you don't get that. We don't need to know the who or how to know the goal.

3. And you need to what the scene with Flemeth again. The only time Morrigan or the quis is held back by the binding is when Flemeth literally use her power. You know, the time her eyes changed color. Morrigan was even starting to attack and was about to untill Flemeth used her power of Mythel to stop her. So yes, the binding is to the power not the person.

 

4.It matter not if she manipulates or orders. She still getting you to do what she want whether you like it or not. That's the issue.

5.Sorry but the point still stand he will do anything to get to his goal. If he can kill a friend he can do anything.

6.It opens well before the last fight happen. It happen when you are at the war table, not when you reach there. The point is the fact it's open and opening fast then before means there is urgency.

Ok, I'm a bit tired of discussion with somebody who has problems with understanding difference between "motive" and "vengeance". Vengeance, like greed, like anger, like grief - those are motives and only motives. Exacting vengeance on some particular individual/group is a goal. "Vengeance" could be a goal only if it was the idea of avenging everyone wronged you possibly meet - which apparently isn't the case.

Your mental gymnastics to make the binding relevant even after Flemeth's death are adorable.

Your mental gymnastics to "prove" that there is sense of urgency between Arbor Wilds and final confrontation because the Breach opens when you decide to go to the final confrontation not when you get there - that's not even adorable, just really dumb. You get home from AW and the Breach is closed. You go get yourself a dragon and the Breach is closed. You go around finishing your romances, buying stuff, completing war table missions, crafting things - and the Breach is closed. How is there any feeling of urgency? It only appears when you finally pick the mission to go and kill the guy. Before that? Before that you get yourself the most peaceful part of the game. Really, other missions give you the feeling that you must complete them quick. There are two great exceptions: Halamshiral that supposedly has a set date (which means that however much time you waste in the meantime is just waiting for the day when the ball takes place) and the gap between Arbor Wilds and final confrontation, where you know that Cory has no army left and that he won't hide, so you just need to wait for him to re-surface. 

 

Either way, I get it that you somehow managed to like the ending and want to defend it (and obviously it was not as bad as OP suggests) just please stop making yourself look like a fool by denying logic and common sense in attempts to defend the ending where it just can't be defended.

I'll even lend you a hand by not replying to any further posts of yours here anymore, thank you for the discussion.

[Farangbaa]

It doesn't matter. The conflict of Inquisition is the Breach and Corypheus. Not Flemeth and Solus.

Apparantly, it is. You just don't know how yet. But it's hinted at more than once; Solas' (with an A for God's sake) last minute reveal of being the 'owner' of the Orb and Morrigan almost immediately realising Flemeth played a big role in what happens during Inquisition while in the Fade.

In a way just like Mass Effect wasn't about big bad robots destroying all life, but big good robots saving all life in a very peculiar way.

Maybe Bioware shouldn't do these last second reveals anymore, apparently people can't handle having assumptions and being wrong in the end. (or, for that matter, accepting that the larger story set up by DA:I really isn't done yet)

Totally expecting an essay now on how this is definitely, most definitively 'bad writing'

[Br3admax]

Flemeth and Solas both existed as characters prior to the last five minutes. This also isn't the last game in a trilogy, and DA:I has post-campaign dlc only. It's not comparable in the slightest, even if you take general things both share like having reveals. 

[BabyPuncher]

Apparantly, it is.

 

No, it isn't. And the Reapers having a greater motivation was not a twist at all. It was obvious from the very beginning that they had some motive beyond killing everyone for no reason every 50,000 years.

[leaguer of one]

Ok, I'm a bit tired of discussion with somebody who has problems with understanding difference between "motive" and "vengeance". Vengeance, like greed, like anger, like grief - those are motives and only motives. Exacting vengeance on some particular individual/group is a goal. "Vengeance" could be a goal only if it was the idea of avenging everyone wronged you possibly meet - which apparently isn't the case.

Your mental gymnastics to make the binding relevant even after Flemeth's death are adorable.

Your mental gymnastics to "prove" that there is sense of urgency between Arbor Wilds and final confrontation because the Breach opens when you decide to go to the final confrontation not when you get there - that's not even adorable, just really dumb. You get home from AW and the Breach is closed. You go get yourself a dragon and the Breach is closed. You go around finishing your romances, buying stuff, completing war table missions, crafting things - and the Breach is closed. How is there any feeling of urgency? It only appears when you finally pick the mission to go and kill the guy. Before that? Before that you get yourself the most peaceful part of the game. Really, other missions give you the feeling that you must complete them quick. There are two great exceptions: Halamshiral that supposedly has a set date (which means that however much time you waste in the meantime is just waiting for the day when the ball takes place) and the gap between Arbor Wilds and final confrontation, where you know that Cory has no army left and that he won't hide, so you just need to wait for him to re-surface. 

 

Either way, I get it that you somehow managed to like the ending and want to defend it (and obviously it was not as bad as OP suggests) just please stop making yourself look like a fool by denying logic and common sense in attempts to defend the ending where it just can't be defended.

I'll even lend you a hand by not replying to any further posts of yours here anymore, thank you for the discussion.

Vengeance is not an emotion. It is an action someone what to do, not a state of being. Understand that first. It is a result. It's not a motive. To even what to have vengeance you need to have a motive in a first place. That why it's a goal.

 

To get a better understanding of that...

vengeance

 the act of doing something to hurt someone because that person did something that hurt you or someone else

 

http://www.merriam-w...onary/vengeance

 

Greed,anger, and grief are defined as emotion and feels. Vengeance is define as a action. Learn the difference.

 

And I never said there was a state of urgency between the time of the amber wilds and the last fight. I spacifily said the last fight had urgrncy because the breach was open... I'll even quote myself on that...

 

"It opens well before the last fight happen. It happen when you are at the war table, not when you reach there. The point is the fact it's open and opening fast then before means there is urgency."
 That point on after the arbor wild is just prep. I said that over and over ageing. The last fight is just to close things out. I never said the time between when they are preping take down Cory there was urgency. They don't need to have it in the plot at that point. This is not that type of story were they need it at that point.

 

And of course Flemeth is dead. Even the notes in the game file says she's dead.

http://www.reddit.co...ne_explained/#s

[leaguer of one]

No, it isn't. And the Reapers having a greater motivation was not a twist at all. It was obvious from the very beginning that they had some motive beyond killing everyone for no reason every 50,000 years.

Dude, we did not even know Cory was part of it till Hearst shall burn. From the start it was about closing the breach and finding out why it happened.