1194 réponses à ce sujet

[Eliastion]

1. Mt evidence is the epilogue that has Flemeth and Solas states that was Solas' plan.

2. Only if your willing to grab at straws. This is not the case. Solas gave Cory the orb just to have in unlock it. That does not ring any alarms in your head?

The fact that Solas f*cked up and Cory started off by killing a s*tload of people while unlocking the orb doesn't make Solas the villain or mastermaind of it all.

We don't really know what Solas's plan was or how the hell was he expecting to get the orb back - but we don't have any basis to say that he was a villain. Sorry leaguer, but you're just talking nonsense - there's nothing to suggest that Solas knew how the unlocking would really be conducted, nothing to suggest that he wanted Divine and the others dead, he likely didn't even expect all those rifts to appear. Rather than some great conspiracy on his part here it seems more plausible that it was all his f*ck-up on his part.

Perhaps he had some arrangement with Cory that Cory would unlock the Orb and Solas would do something for Cory in return (but then Cory took the orb and went on his becoming-a-god quest)? Solas has a terrible track record when it comes to good judgement of situation, his plans tend to end up leaving things worse then they were (and someone should really smack him on the head for thinking that he's smarter than he is AGAIN) - but another mistake doesn't really make him the villain of the story. If you want your gun cleaned, you give it to some shady guy who can clean it for you but then decides to go shoot people with it... You're likely an idiot with poor judgement (the guy was really shady, what did you expect) but you're not the shooter nor the "real villain" behind the shooting.

It may be all your fault if the guy couldn't get a gun any other way - but you're STILL not a villain.

[leaguer of one]

The fact that Solas f*cked up and Cory started off by killing a s*tload of people while unlocking the orb doesn't make Solas the villain or mastermaind of it all.

We don't really know what Solas's plan was or how the hell was he expecting to get the orb back - but we don't have any basis to say that he was a villain. Sorry leaguer, but you're just talking nonsense - there's nothing to suggest that Solas knew how the unlocking would really be conducted, nothing to suggest that he wanted Divine and the others dead, he likely didn't even expect all those rifts to appear. Rather than some great conspiracy on his part here it seems more plausible that it was all his f*ck-up on his part.

Perhaps he had some arrangement with Cory that Cory would unlock the Orb and Solas would do something for Cory in return (but then Cory took the orb and went on his becoming-a-god quest)? Solas has a terrible track record when it comes to good judgement of situation, his plans tend to end up leaving things worse then they were (and someone should really smack him on the head for thinking that he's smarter than he is AGAIN) - but another mistake doesn't really make him the villain of the story. If you want your gun cleaned, you give it to some shady guy who can clean it for you but then decides to go shoot people with it... You're likely an idiot with poor judgement (the guy was really shady, what did you expect) but you're not the shooter nor the "real villain" behind the shooting.

It may be all your fault if the guy couldn't get a gun any other way - but you're STILL not a villain.

He's not the master mind but he is the cause of the entire ordeal. Which is, if you for got, you goal in finding out. That still means he's playing both sides. The fact that he is the cause of even thing going on in the game is relievent. And that is a huge deal.

[esh1996]

I was also disappointed with the ending of DA:I, although the Corypheus fight was unrewarding and unsatisfying, I thought the real issue was that this wasn't the ending which the game deserved. Instead of a clique happy ending where everything goes back to normal and we all live happily ever after... I wanted an ending where after we defeated Corypheus the story continued and we dealt with the consequences of the decisions we made. Whether our choice for Orlesians Empress/Emperor was wise? Whether banishing or recruiting the Grey Wardens was foolish?
Instead of the happy ever after which we got I wanted my decisions to actually impact the story (really all they did was adjust my approval/disapproval ratings of my followers). And for the game to include 3-5 more missions where i dealt with the consequences of my actions during the game... War with Orlais? Dealing with a blight, with or without the wardens? And also with the reveal of Solas being Fen'Harel, Flemeth being Mythal and possibly Sera being Andruil if the incredibly plausible fan theory happens to be correct then the story had infinite potential if it decided to touch on the reawakening of the elven pantheon... So much potential... Sadly all we got was a happy ending...
If you take away the time you spent on side quests and waiting for war table actions to complete. You could probably complete the main quest and all the inner circle missions in around 15-20 hours... That's short for an RPG. I think we deserved more main story missions.

[X Equestris]

If you take away the time you spent on side quests and waiting for war table actions to complete. You could probably complete the main quest and all the inner circle missions in around 15-20 hours... That's short for an RPG. I think we deserved more main story missions.

While more main story missions would have been great, but 20 hours isn't necessarily that short. Most of my Origins playthroughs ranged between 20 and 30 hours, and that was with most of the sidequests.

[dragonflight288]

I wouldn't say Solas is the cause of the main conflict in the game, but he is a huge contributor. 

 

He intended for Corypheus to unlock the orb because he couldn't for some reason. That does not mean he knew what Corypheus was planning on doing with the orb. 

 

But had he not, there would be no breach. But Corypheus would still be on his quest. He'd likely go straight for the Arbor Wilds or the Eluvian route rather than the Anchor route. He would still be a threat and he would still be seeking godhood.

[esh1996]

While more main story missions would have been great, but 20 hours isn't necessarily that short. Most of my Origins playthroughs ranged between 20 and 30 hours, and that was with most of the sidequests.

BioShock Infinite (one of my favourite games of all time) a linear story game took me 15 hours to complete (although I did collect most of the voxophones so I did do a fare bit of exploring), personally I think an open world RPG should should be at least 30 hours when rushed, and a solid play through (with most major side quests) should be at least 60 hours. Look at Skyrim, although the main story wasn't that long the world was populated with side quests as interesting and long as the main quest meaning there are people 4 years later who still haven't gotten bored with their first play through. I've finished two almost 100% completed play throughs of DA:I in 3 months...

[leaguer of one]

I wouldn't say Solas is the cause of the main conflict in the game, but he is a huge contributor. 

 

He intended for Corypheus to unlock the orb because he couldn't for some reason. That does not mean he knew what Corypheus was planning on doing with the orb. 

 

But had he not, there would be no breach. But Corypheus would still be on his quest. He'd likely go straight for the Arbor Wilds or the Eluvian route rather than the Anchor route. He would still be a threat and he would still be seeking godhood.

Yes he was. The breach would of never been open if not for his orb. And the reason Cory could get to the wilds was because of his army.  The reason it expaned is because the peace summit failed. No peace summit explotion means no army for Cory.

[Vanth]

I agree with the OP. The ending was ****. Much much worse than ME3's ending.

[Barry-Allen]

I mean it was kinda lame, but not all that bad. I'd rather relive the blackest night than replay ME3's ending.

[Eliastion]

Yes he was. The breach would of never been open if not for his orb. And the reason Cory could get to the wilds was because of his army.  The reason it expaned is because the peace summit failed. No peace summit explotion means no army for Cory.

It would be smaller, perhaps. Slightly, as mages/templars were only an addition while neither Venatori nor his "demon army" were dependent on the Breach. It would be a different story, of course, but he was still a leader of powerful organization in Thedas that is anything but unified. The summit was destroyed, but at the same time the Breach served as the "outside threat" one could point to and say that people need to unify.
Chantry was conflicted already and neither mages nor templars believed in the summit enough to actually have their leaders attend. They did send their representatives, but with this level of distrust, could the peace talks really have succeeded, even without the Breach? Especially if Venatori and possibly some corrupted Templars working for them interfered? And if Cory really wanted to sabotage the summit, imagine just murdering the Divine in a way that points slightly towards the Templars (mages still would be suspected ether way so some inconclusive evidence pointing towards rogue templars would do nicely to cause more chaos).

Basically, Corypheus without his orb wouldn't lead to creation of Inquisition as we know it (no Herald of Andraste) but he would still be a great threat. And frankly? While writing this I start to come to the conclusion that while Breach was in and of itself a potentially world-altering disaster, the Orb actually led to Corypheus's and Venatori defeat and they would have a better chance without it. Cory wouldn't be obsessed about some Herald, there would indeed be no Herald - the fact itself would take away a lot of Inquisition's momentum. Chances of anyone learning in advance about demon army and Celene's assassination would be smaller.
Seriously, think about it. Orb fueled Cory's god-becoming obsession, made him impatient about it and took his mind away from actually securing South first and obtaining godhood later, at his leisure, as befitting for a goddamned (possibly literally ) immortal being! Without the Orb, Corypheus would likely pose much greater threat than he ultimately did in DA:I.

[Rekkampum]

Yes he was. The breach would of never been open if not for his orb. And the reason Cory could get to the wilds was because of his army.  The reason it expaned is because the peace summit failed. No peace summit explotion means no army for Cory.

 

No. The entire thing got worse the moment Anders started the rebellion and blew everything to hell. Had that not happened, it's quite arguable that the meeting at the Conclave would not have likely been necessary.

[leaguer of one]

No. The entire thing got worse the moment Anders started the rebellion and blew everything to hell. Had that not happened, it's quite arguable that the meeting at the Conclave would not have likely been necessary.

Kirkwall and it's templer/mage conflict was like a pine forest in summer. It was bound to burst in flame no matter what. After playing dai I see that now.

[leaguer of one]

It would be smaller, perhaps. Slightly, as mages/templars were only an addition while neither Venatori nor his "demon army" were dependent on the Breach. It would be a different story, of course, but he was still a leader of powerful organization in Thedas that is anything but unified. The summit was destroyed, but at the same time the Breach served as the "outside threat" one could point to and say that people need to unify.
Chantry was conflicted already and neither mages nor templars believed in the summit enough to actually have their leaders attend. They did send their representatives, but with this level of distrust, could the peace talks really have succeeded, even without the Breach? Especially if Venatori and possibly some corrupted Templars working for them interfered? And if Cory really wanted to sabotage the summit, imagine just murdering the Divine in a way that points slightly towards the Templars (mages still would be suspected ether way so some inconclusive evidence pointing towards rogue templars would do nicely to cause more chaos).

Basically, Corypheus without his orb wouldn't lead to creation of Inquisition as we know it (no Herald of Andraste) but he would still be a great threat. And frankly? While writing this I start to come to the conclusion that while Breach was in and of itself a potentially world-altering disaster, the Orb actually led to Corypheus's and Venatori defeat and they would have a better chance without it. Cory wouldn't be obsessed about some Herald, there would indeed be no Herald - the fact itself would take away a lot of Inquisition's momentum. Chances of anyone learning in advance about demon army and Celene's assassination would be smaller.
Seriously, think about it. Orb fueled Cory's god-becoming obsession, made him impatient about it and took his mind away from actually securing South first and obtaining godhood later, at his leisure, as befitting for a goddamned (possibly literally ) immortal being! Without the Orb, Corypheus would likely pose much greater threat than he ultimately did in DA:I.

Of course it was dependent on the breach. The mission made it a point that Nightmare was coming though it. And the only reason templers turned to red lyrium is because the conclave failed. There would be no red templers if it worked. The reason Cory's army gained power was because of the orb and the conclave failed.  If it did not there would be no red templers, no addition of mages to his army, and the veil would be too strong to build the demon army.

 

And Cory had that god odsession before the orb.

Sorry, but the orb was what made him a world wide threat in the first place.

[Eliastion]

The true villain of the story is obviously Andraste! Without Andraste there would be no Chantry, no Templars, no Mage-Templar war, no Temple of Sacred Ashes AND there's even a chance that without her Tevinter would've eventually worked through its crisis and remained the great power it once was, so there would be no Venatori wanting to restore it!

[Eliastion]

Of course it was dependent on the breach. The mission made it a point that Nightmare was coming though it. And the only reason templers turned to red lyrium is because the conclave failed. There would be no red templers if it worked. The reason Cory's army gained power was because of the orb and the conclave failed.  If it did not there would be no red templers, no addition of mages to his army, and the veil would be too strong to build the demon army.
 
And Cory had that god odsession before the orb.
Sorry, but the orb was what made him a world wide threat in the first place.

I respectfully disagree. Breach is hardly necessary for demon-summoning. Perhaps it would be required for bringing Nightmare through, but he wasn't a requirement for having a demon army. Conclave had small chances of success to begin with and could be easily sabotaged without the Orb (and in a way that would end up with a devastating Mage-Templar battle right there).
So, in conclusion, you're talking nonsense. Without Orb there would be no Breach and no rifts, but they're only one aspect of the Corypheus-related threat. The rest just didn't require Orb to work, especially since Breach was what actually gave Inquisition most of its early power.

[leaguer of one]

I respectfully disagree. Breach is hardly necessary for demon-summoning. Perhaps it would be required for bringing Nightmare through, but he wasn't a requirement for having a demon army. Conclave had small chances of success to begin with and could be easily sabotaged without the Orb (and in a way that would end up with a devastating Mage-Templar battle right there).
So, in conclusion, you're talking nonsense. Without Orb there would be no Breach and no rifts, but they're only one aspect of the Corypheus-related threat. The rest just didn't require Orb to work, especially since Breach was what actually gave Inquisition most of its early power.

Your forgetting one big thing. Nightmare was the one that had control over the demon army. Remeber, banishing him banished the entire demon army. The only way he could control all those demons was with the veil weaken by the breach. No breach, no nightmare, no nightmare, no demon army. 

Sorry, but with out the breach, cory would not have an army.

And no the Chantry was way too paranoid to let another kirkwall incident happen. The only way it would be sabotaged if something very powerful intervened. 

Sorry but your wrong. Cory would not of been as big as an issue as he was in the game with out the orb. With out it he would have no army at all.

[Eliastion]

(...)
And no the Chantry was way too paranoid to let another kirkwall incident happen. The only way it would be sabotaged if something very powerful intervened. (...)

You're kidding me, right? Cory literally kidnapped the Divine. Before unlocking the orb.

Sorry but your wrong. Cory would not of been as big as an issue as he was in the game with out the orb. With out it he would have no army at all.

I don't remember the Fear Demon being actually responsible for the mind-control, I'm not sure where you got that from, but it is possible that you are right. Even in this case, however, you keep forgetting the Venatori - so your statement that "he would have no army at all" is completely false either way. He would have venatori AND there is nothing stopping him from actually getting rebel mages... and likely Templars too (especially if he has a way to acquire some red lyrium to start off) since, as I said, he proved more than capable of sabotaging the peace talks. Unless you believe that properly executed murder of the Divine wouldn't have any effect on the two sides that were too hostile to and/or suspicious of each other to even have their actual leaders attending personally?
I have doubts whether there was any real chance for peace without any outside interference. Sabotaging the event would be a child's play for Cory.

[leaguer of one]

You're kidding me, right? Cory literally kidnapped the Divine. Before unlocking the orb.

I don't remember the Fear Demon being actually responsible for the mind-control, I'm not sure where you got that from, but it is possible that you are right. Even in this case, however, you keep forgetting the Venatori - so your statement that "he would have no army at all" is completely false either way. He would have venatori AND there is nothing stopping him from actually getting rebel mages... and likely Templars too (especially if he has a way to acquire some red lyrium to start off) since, as I said, he proved more than capable of sabotaging the peace talks. Unless you believe that properly executed murder of the Divine wouldn't have any effect on the two sides that were too hostile to and/or suspicious of each other to even have their actual leaders attending personally?
I have doubts whether there was any real chance for peace without any outside interference. Sabotaging the event would be a child's play for Cory.

1. Keynote: The only way it would be sabotaged if something very powerful intervened.

Yes, an all powerful darkspawn teventer magister of old  kidnapped the Divine.  And Why? Because he is an all powerful darkspawn teventer magister of old. He's more powerful than anyone at the conclave. No type of prevention would of stopped him.  He's covered under abnormal. No else but him is capable of sabatoging the Conclave.

2.Then you clearly were not listening. Nightmare by mistake tells the spirit of the divine he controls the demons and that banishing him banishes all the demons. And the  venatori does not have enough to have an army. They only do if you side with the mages. And nether the mages or templer had the ability to sabotage the  conclave. The templers did not start using red lyrium in mass yet and the mages were way too disorganized.

 

Sorry but Cory is not a world wide threat till he got the orb. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The true villain of the story is obviously Andraste! Without Andraste there would be no Chantry, no Templars, no Mage-Templar war, no Temple of Sacred Ashes AND there's even a chance that without her Tevinter would've eventually worked through its crisis and remained the great power it once was, so there would be no Venatori wanting to restore it!

If we are going back that far, then the true villain is the Tevinter Imperium. After all, Andraste would never have to have led the rebellion if it wasn't for Tevinter. Also, if Tevinter wasn't the way it was back then, Corypheus wouldn't be around today and things like the Blights would never have occurred. 

[Suketchi]

Well, doesn't this thread look fun! I'll just drop this off here, shall I BabyPuncher?

 

[Suketchi]

Why can't people who dislike BioWare's writing style just stop buying the games so the rest of us doesn't have to put up with all the mediocre stuff BW will introduce in the following games just to to please the ranters?

 

 

I believe you once said you wouldn't mind if this guy followed you around?  This right here is definitely deserving of another round of Prohibited London Punk applause.

[Heimdall]

I respectfully disagree. Breach is hardly necessary for demon-summoning. Perhaps it would be required for bringing Nightmare through, but he wasn't a requirement for having a demon army. Conclave had small chances of success to begin with and could be easily sabotaged without the Orb (and in a way that would end up with a devastating Mage-Templar battle right there).
So, in conclusion, you're talking nonsense. Without Orb there would be no Breach and no rifts, but they're only one aspect of the Corypheus-related threat. The rest just didn't require Orb to work, especially since Breach was what actually gave Inquisition most of its early power.

Wait, why do you think the Breach was intentional?  I took it to be the result of the ritual being interrupted.

[Eliastion]

(...)

So you admit that Cory could've sabotaged the Summit without the orb, preventing the end of the war. And at the very least mages would be recruitable for him then (though it would require a bit more time since no time travel could be involved). And yet you say he would have no army nor could be a major threat?
Also, you're wrong about the Venatori. Them alone would create a smaller army than them + rebel mages (obviously) but that doesn't mean there was no army.

Wait, why do you think the Breach was intentional?  I took it to be the result of the ritual being interrupted.

I don't know whether it was intentional. It could've been, it didn't have to. It definitely is a facet of Corypheus-related threat and he made some use of it. What Cory definitely had in mind was causing chaos during the summit - that's why he did his ritual in this place, this time and involving Divine in this whole mess. If he didn't have an orb he would still f*ck the Conclave up, though definitley not in as flashy a manner. Most likely it would be an assassination pointing to one or both parties involved. Most likely to Templars, so that there would be Mages thinking Templars did it, Templars believing they are being framed by Mages and Chantry-related people bickering over whether it were Templars or Mages trying to frame Templars. So, basically, back to the war with renewed energy (or at least hatred).

[Rekkampum]

Wait, why do you think the Breach was intentional?  I took it to be the result of the ritual being interrupted.

 

The Breach itself may not have been intentional, but the Conclave explosion definitely was; Solas likely expected Corypheus to perish once he unlocked the Orb's power. He obviously underestimated the resilience of an ancient Darkspawn Magister.

[leaguer of one]

So you admit that Cory could've sabotaged the Summit without the orb, preventing the end of the war. And at the very least mages would be recruitable for him then (though it would require a bit more time since no time travel could be involved). And yet you say he would have no army nor could be a major threat?
Also, you're wrong about the Venatori. Them alone would create a smaller army than them + rebel mages (obviously) but that doesn't mean there was no army.

I don't know whether it was intentional. It could've been, it didn't have to. It definitely is a facet of Corypheus-related threat and he made some use of it. What Cory definitely had in mind was causing chaos during the summit - that's why he did his ritual in this place, this time and involving Divine in this whole mess. If he didn't have an orb he would still f*ck the Conclave up, though definitley not in as flashy a manner. Most likely it would be an assassination pointing to one or both parties involved. Most likely to Templars, so that there would be Mages thinking Templars did it, Templars believing they are being framed by Mages and Chantry-related people bickering over whether it were Templars or Mages trying to frame Templars. So, basically, back to the war with renewed energy (or at least hatred).

1. No. I said he was the only one powerful enough. The orb was the only reason he did. And no the mages would not be recruitable to him. They were only trick to be at his side because the conclave fail and they were desprate. If it not fail they would not even think about being with him. Heck, the venitori would not even be a redcliff if not for the breach. The would not even get there unless the breach was open.

 

2.No, Cory plan was only based around the orb. He need a spacific sacrifice to power it and that is tied to the current divine. He would not be there if he had not the orb. Heck, he wold not even gtrick the wardens to help him with out the orb. And the divine would not be reached by anyone less powerful then cory with the qunari mercs, her kight enchanter guards, her Knight-Divine, and her left and right hands. The mages are too unorganized and the templers are too focus on the mages to go after the chantry.