The Breach itself may not have been intentional, but the Conclave explosion definitely was; Solas likely expected Corypheus to perish once he unlocked the Orb's power. He obviously underestimated the resilience of an ancient Darkspawn Magister.
No, the explose was not. The explosion was a mistake and Solas would already know Cory can't die under normal terms. Cory would just body jump to the nearest blighted body.
If we are going back that far, then the true villain is the Tevinter Imperium. After all, Andraste would never have to have led the rebellion if it wasn't for Tevinter. Also, if Tevinter wasn't the way it was back then, Corypheus wouldn't be around today and things like the Blights would never have occurred.
No,It's the elven gods. If they never fought there winner less war then none of this would happen.
Then there is the Maker. Probably. If he does exist, I think we can safely say that it's all his goddamned fault. Seriously, how did it occur to him that creating a world full of uncontrollable vermin plagued by free will was a good idea?No,It's the elven gods. If they never fought there winner less war then none of this would happen.
And where does this come from? Seriously, if he had no intention of disrupting the conclave, why would he mess around with the Orb there? And if the place was indeed special - why mess with the Orb then rather than at any other time when everything is not full of mages and templars and clergymen being not as much on their guard as kinda paranoid in fact. And if he had to do it there and couldn't wait till after the summit - why involve Divine?(...)The orb was the only reason he did(...)
Yeah, obviously he needed the Divine to power the orb. Definitely. Because she is so special... except not. She's an old woman with lots of power granted to her by her position.2.No, Cory plan was only based around the orb. He need a spacific sacrifice to power it and that is tied to the current divine. He would not be there if he had not the orb. Heck, he wold not even gtrick the wardens to help him with out the orb. And the divine would not be reached by anyone less powerful then cory with the qunari mercs, her kight enchanter guards, her Knight-Divine, and her left and right hands. The mages are too unorganized and the templers are too focus on the mages to go after the chantry.
And where does this come from? Seriously, if he had no intention of disrupting the conclave, why would he mess around with the Orb there? And if the place was indeed special - why mess with the Orb then rather than at any other time when everything is not full of mages and templars and clergymen being not as much on their guard as kinda paranoid in fact. And if he had to do it there and couldn't wait till after the summit - why involve Divine?
Its painfully obvious that he wanted to sabotage the summit.
Yeah, obviously he needed the Divine to power the orb. Definitely. Because she is so special... except not. She's an old woman with lots of power granted to her by her position.
1.The orb came form Solas. Nothing says Cory found it in that temple of Andraste/Mytherl.
2.Think about it. If a single normal persons life is enough to power the orb then Solas would of done it himself with any random person and not need Cory. Justina is special and the story has yet to tell us why.
How did you manage to get an impression I thought anything else? Of course he got Orb from Solas. But he messed with it in ToSA during the Summit.1.The orb came form Solas. Nothing says Cory found it in that temple of Andraste/Mytherl.
It's that OR Solas gave the orb to Cory because Cory was special, not Justina. Why would we assume an additional special person when we don't need it? AFAIK there's nothing that would really suggest Justinia being in any way special (in supernatural sense at least).2.Think about it. If a single normal persons life is enough to power the orb then Solas would of done it himself with any random person and not need Cory. Justina is special and the story has yet to tell us why.
The true villain of the story is obviously Andraste! Without Andraste there would be no Chantry, no Templars, no Mage-Templar war, no Temple of Sacred Ashes AND there's even a chance that without her Tevinter would've eventually worked through its crisis and remained the great power it once was, so there would be no Venatori wanting to restore it!
How did you manage to get an impression I thought anything else? Of course he got Orb from Solas. But he messed with it in ToSA during the Summit.
It's that OR Solas gave the orb to Cory because Cory was special, not Justina. Why would we assume an additional special person when we don't need it? AFAIK there's nothing that would really suggest Justinia being in any way special (in supernatural sense at least).
1. Because he needed something there.
2. Cory was just powerful. That's it. If it was about being unque the the quis would have never been able to activate it. Remeber, to use the orb requires massive magical energy like when the mage were used to close the breach. And of course we have something to suggest Justina is special. She attracted a spirit of fate in the fade(or that just her soul trapped in the fade.)
No, she's not. The sacrifice was merely part of the ritual, Corypheus' personal power was still the driving force. He chose Justinia because he's arrogant and likes symbolic gestures, hence using the leader of the largest religion in Thedas to fuel his own ascension to godhood.1.The orb came form Solas. Nothing says Cory found it in that temple of Andraste/Mytherl.
2.Think about it. If a single normal persons life is enough to power the orb then Solas would of done it himself with any random person and not need Cory. Justina is special and the story has yet to tell us why.
No, she's not. The sacrifice was merely part of the ritual, Corypheus' personal power was still the driving force. He chose Justinia because he's arrogant and likes symbolic gestures, hence using the leader of the largest religion in Thedas to fuel his own ascension to godhood.
Also I actually thought Corypheus had already unlocked the orb by that point, the ritual was intended to creat the Anchor.
If that was the case then Solas did not need Cory. If he had the power to use the orb, why make a sacrifice to power it? That makes no sense.
This is a woman who attracted a spirit of fate in the fade, there clearly is more going on here because normal people even when dying in the fade don't do that.
This is a woman who attracted a spirit of fate in the fade, there clearly is more going on here because normal people even when dying in the fade don't do that.
Given that no one has ever died while physically in the Fade, that we are aware of, except her, this doesn't make any sense at all.
Complexity has nothing to do with this issue. Every good ending I can think goes quite in the opposite direction: They're beautiful and elegant in their simplicity.
And a shock ending can just as easily go along with what I'm criticizing as predictable endings.
I am quite ignorant of what pitfalls to avoid in making a work thematically bankrupt. Would you be willing to give me examples of works that have good endings? I'm also interested to know what specific changes you would have made to the existing narrative to improve it.
Solas didn't have the power. Cory had. And sometimes a sacrifice is necessary because it just is an ingredient. You have the power to make that cake, but you still need flour. Not because the bag of flour is special.If that was the case then Solas did not need Cory. If he had the power to use the orb, why make a sacrifice to power it? That makes no sense.
She was in the center of the ritual that unlocked the Orb and created the Breach. I this is not "fateful" enough, I don't know what would be.This is a woman who attracted a spirit of fate in the fade, there clearly is more going on here because normal people even when dying in the fade don't do that.
it's a 'to be continued' end and i love it.
i love all new rumors about solas... as example if he will be the next villian and enemy...if there will be maybe a new elfe war and so on.
i love it that the players speculate a little bit what maybe happens next.
all this discussions they keep the game alive are only possible because of this 'open end'
the end fits well if someone wanna write a own fan fiction about all what could happen after cory's defeat.
Given that no one has ever died while physically in the Fade, that we are aware of, except her, this doesn't make any sense at all.
So if the quis dies in the fade a spirit of some kind takes their place?
Solas didn't have the power. Cory had. And sometimes a sacrifice is necessary because it just is an ingredient. You have the power to make that cake, but you still need flour. Not because the bag of flour is special.
She was in the center of the ritual that unlocked the Orb and created the Breach. I this is not "fateful" enough, I don't know what would be.
Do you believe that the "original Cole" was somehow super-very-special because normal people don't attract spirits to literally have them cross over and take their form? And there was no huge Fade-altering event just happening around original Cole...
1.Sorry but your grasping at straws here. My point is saying Cory when to the conclave just because he was arrogant and had the orb is jumping to conclusions. Solas made is a point in the epilogue the issue of unlocking the orb was power and Cory already had the power to do so. A sacrifice would seem to be unneeded. Remember this is elven magic and that has yet to show the need of sacrifices to unlock it.
2. The original Cole was locked in a place where the veil was thin. Whisp and spirit commonly are attracted to mages. The divine may be trapped in the fade but she is trapped in the domain of a super powerfull demon who sees all in his domain. It seems old a spirit of faith would be there.
Sorry, but I am the one grasping at straws here?1.Sorry but your grasping at straws here. My point is saying Cory when to the conclave just because he was arrogant and had the orb is jumping to conclusions. Solas made is a point in the epilogue the issue of unlocking the orb was power and Cory already had the power to do so. A sacrifice would seem to be unneeded. Remember this is elven magic and that has yet to show the need of sacrifices to unlock it.
It's not me who insists that blowing up Conclave had nothing to do with the Conclave itself...Spirit of Faith getting attracted to the Summit taking place at one of possibly holiest for Andrastians places in Thedas, where current leader of the religion tries to bring about peace of profound importance for the whole southern Thedas. That sounds like a place and event that draws a lot of faith. Where would you expect to encounter Faith spirits if not flocking to part of Fade closely connected to those events? And as we know, geographic locations do to some extent connect to Fade geography. Meeting of Divine and Faith spirit during the events of the Summit is hardly something strange (well, as far as spirit-related things can be non-strange).2. The original Cole was locked in a place where the veil was thin. Whisp and spirit commonly are attracted to mages. The divine may be trapped in the fade but she is trapped in the domain of a super powerful demon who sees all in his domain. It seems old a spirit of faith would be there.
Solas needed Cory because Cory is more powerful than him at the moment. He didn't have enough personal power to use the orb. The sacrifice was part of the ritual to create the anchor, not to power the orb. The orb and the sacrifice were two separate parts of the same ritual. It was only Cory's dramatic flair and arrogance (Demonstrated when he invested part of his being in the dragon in mockery of the Old Gods) that demanded the Divine be that sacrifice.If that was the case then Solas did not need Cory. If he had the power to use the orb, why make a sacrifice to power it? That makes no sense.
This is a woman who attracted a spirit of fate in the fade, there clearly is more going on here because normal people even when dying in the fade don't do that.
Solas needed Cory because Cory is more powerful than him at the moment. He didn't have enough personal power to use the orb. The sacrifice was part of the ritual to create the anchor, not to power the orb. The orb and the sacrifice were two separate parts of the same ritual. It was only Cory's dramatic flair and arrogance (Demonstrated when he invested part of his being in the dragon in mockery of the Old Gods) that demanded the Divine be that sacrifice.
Attracting spirits isn't new. Something about Justinia or her circumstances inspired the spirit (And I'm reasonably certain we don't know what type of spirit it was), that dos not imply something mystically unique about Justinia that made her specially suited. Cassandra drew a spirit of faith while tranquil. Cole was drawn to his namesake. Wynne attracted a spirit that watched over her her whole life. Also, Justinia's the first person we've ever seen die while physically in the Fade so I don't see how you can make that judgement.
1.First of all the orb is the anchor and it was never meant to attack to anyone. And I don't see how the orb and sacrifice are two separate part of the ritual. Nothing is saying it was about dramatic flair. Remember, he has a dragon under his command, if he wanted that he would just rained down fire on everything. The dragon was made out of pride but I don't see how that pride lead him to do an unneeded sacrifice when all he could just rain down fire and kill everyone with his dragon to make his point. Cory is a guy, if he is show boating, wants to be seen. If he did come there just to kill the divine and sabotage the conclave, he would make it know to everyone there he's doing it and to kill the divine right there infront of a crowd to show how superior he is.
2. Attracting spirit is not new but it's rare. It does not happen unless one is a mage,one is using magic, or the veil is thin and even then what commonly comes are malevolent demons not benevolent spirits. And Yes a spirit coming would mean Justinia is special in some way, especially is the spirit is one as rare as faith. Even more so in the place of the fade controlled by an all powerful demon.
Sorry, but I am the one grasping at straws here?
Spirit of Faith getting attracted to the Summit taking place at one of possibly holiest for Andrastians places in Thedas, where current leader of the religion tries to bring about peace of profound importance for the whole southern Thedas. That sounds like a place and event that draws a lot of faith. Where would you expect to encounter Faith spirits if not flocking to part of Fade closely connected to those events? And as we know, geographic locations do to some extent connect to Fade geography. Meeting of Divine and Faith spirit during the events of the Summit is hardly something strange (well, as far as spirit-related things can be non-strange).
1. But the conclave did not blow up because of the conclave itself. It blew up because some picked up something filled with power that they did not understand.
2.That's a stretch with all that fear going on there. Added with the fact that the part of the fade they fell to in the explosion was Nightmares. Were dealing with fear, rage, despair and desperation at that conclave more then faith even before the explosion. Sorry but a spirit of faith being there is extremely strange.
But that would be counterproductive(...) The dragon was made out of pride but I don't see how that pride lead him to do an unneeded sacrifice when all he could just rain down fire and kill everyone with his dragon to make his point. Cory is a guy, if he is show boating, wants to be seen. If he did come there just to kill the divine and sabotage the conclave, he would make it know to everyone there he's doing it and to kill the divine right there infront of a crowd to show how superior he is.
A murder (or an explosion) with unknown culprit gives us more chaos. A blighted dragon ridden by an ancient darkspawn claiming to be a magister that assaulted Golden City is a good way to make all those idiots forget their differences and unite.Oh, that hypocrite Cassandra, I knew she was secretly a mage!2. Attracting spirit is not new but it's rare. It does not happen unless one is a mage, one is using magic
You mean, thin like in a temple sitting on top of mountain of Lyrium, housing for a couple hundred years an urn of mircale-working ashes protected by spirits and powerful magic?or the veil is thin
First of all, we don't know what spirit it was (we don't even know IF it was a spirit, really), second: if it was a Faith, where do you expect to see a Faith spirit if not in the middle of an event that half the Thedas looks too with hope? Seriously, find in history one situation where people were praying for success of one singular localized event to similar extent. For all we know Summit could in fact CREATE a Faith spirit rather than attract some of them.and even then what commonly comes are malevolent demons not benevolent spirits. And Yes a spirit coming would mean Justinia is special in some way, especially is the spirit is one as rare as faith. Even more so in the place of the fade controlled by an all powerful demon.
That's your assumption, not an argument. You assume that the Conclave was irrelevant and disrupting it was just an accident. But when you try and base your arguments on your assumptions, that's just circular logic.1. But the conclave did not blow up because of the conclave itself. It blew up because some picked up something filled with power that they did not understand.
Now you're just being ridiculous. Just as fear does not preclude faith, so does an event people's emotions concentrate on draw many kinds of Spirits. And Justina herself (along with those that trusted her) was hopeful. The whole event was founded on basis of hope and faith that were supposed to overcome fear and anger. That's what the whole Summit was all about.2.That's a stretch with all that fear going on there. Added with the fact that the part of the fade they fell to in the explosion was Nightmares. Were dealing with fear, rage, despair and desperation at that conclave more then faith even before the explosion. Sorry but a spirit of faith being there is extremely strange.
But that would be counterproductive
Oh, that hypocrite Cassandra, I knew she was secretly a mage!
You mean, thin like in a temple sitting on top of mountain of Lyrium, housing for a couple hundred years an urn of mircale-working ashes protected by spirits and powerful magic?
First of all, we don't know what spirit it was (we don't even know IF it was a spirit, really), second: if it was a Faith, where do you expect to see a Faith spirit if not in the middle of an event that half the Thedas looks too with hope? Seriously, find in history one situation where people were praying for success of one singular localized event to similar extent. For all we know Summit could in fact CREATE a Faith spirit rather than attract some of them.
That's your assumption, not an argument. You assume that the Conclave was irrelevant and disrupting it was just an accident. But when you try and base your arguments on your assumptions, that's just circular logic.
Now you're just being ridiculous. Just as fear does not preclude faith, so does an event people's emotions concentrate on draw many kinds of Spirits. And Justina herself (along with those that trusted her) was hopeful. The whole event was founded on basis of hope and faith that were supposed to overcome fear and anger. That's what the whole Summit was all about.
1. Use the characters logic and feeling togather what they would do. Not your own or logic in general. Cory is not one to cover up what he is doing. He only uses stealth uptill the time he attacks once done he want everyone to know he did it for recognition of his god hood. If it were all about making sure know one knows about him and his actions he would never attacked Heaven the way he did.
2.You don't have to be a mage to use magic. Example: enchantment magic. That requires magic via lyrium. And guess what need to become tranquil...Lyrium.
3.That was all gone since dao when the ashes were moved.
4.That's not an assumption. That's what literaly happened. This was shown to you in the fade. You're not getting the explosion was a mistake?
5.The point is not which spirits are drawn but which of the spirit drawn are the most powerful. The most powerful draw away the weaker one. This is a fact from the time Hawke went to the fade in da2. And we all know which spirit/demon is the most powerful....Nightmare.
1.First of all the orb is the anchor and it was never meant to attack to anyone. And I don't see how the orb and sacrifice are two separate part of the ritual. Nothing is saying it was about dramatic flair. Remember, he has a dragon under his command, if he wanted that he would just rained down fire on everything. The dragon was made out of pride but I don't see how that pride lead him to do an unneeded sacrifice when all he could just rain down fire and kill everyone with his dragon to make his point. Cory is a guy, if he is show boating, wants to be seen. If he did come there just to kill the divine and sabotage the conclave, he would make it know to everyone there he's doing it and to kill the divine right there infront of a crowd to show how superior he is.
Alright, maybe you'll listen to the words from Cory's mouth:
I am here for the Anchor. The process of removing it begins now. *Zap, inky on the ground* It is your fault "Herald". You interrupted a ritual years in the planning, and instead of dying, you stole its purpose. I do not know how you survived, but what marks you as "touched," what you flail at rifts, I crafted to assault the very heavens. And you used the Anchor to undue my work! The gall!
What did the Inquisitor steal that they use to close rifts? The Anchor. What was the purpose of the ritual? The Anchor, which Corypheus crafted for a specific purpose. The orb was a means to create the Anchor and access greater power, it is not the Anchor.
Corypheus is driven by pride, but that's not the same as showboating. His actions are symbolic. In investing part of himself in the form of a Dragon, he usurps the mantle of the old dragon gods. In sacrificing the Divine, he usurps the new dominant religion. Corypheus doesn't feel the need to reveal himself before his ascension, but that doesn't mean he can't kill two birds with one stone by using the Divine in his ritual. There's absolutely no evidence that there was anything special about the Divine necessary for the ritual. I don't think he even cares about disrupting the conclave.
2. Attracting spirit is not new but it's rare. It does not happen unless one is a mage,one is using magic, or the veil is thin and even then what commonly comes are malevolent demons not benevolent spirits. And Yes a spirit coming would mean Justinia is special in some way, especially is the spirit is one as rare as faith. Even more so in the place of the fade controlled by an all powerful demon.
It's happened to non-mages. Hell, the Seekers are an entire order of individuals who drew spirits of faith to themselves while tranquil sheerly through the strength of their convictions. Considering there is no veil in the way while physically in the Fade, even in the domain of a demon, it's not astounding that a spirit of faith found its way to her. In the end, all the spirit indicates is that Justinia was genuinely a woman of great Faith, much like Wynne or Cassandra.
Alright, maybe you'll listen to the words from Cory's mouth:
What did the Inquisitor steal that they use to close rifts? The Anchor. What was the purpose of the ritual? The Anchor, which Corypheus crafted for a specific purpose. The orb was a means to create the Anchor and access greater power, it is not the Anchor.
Corypheus is driven by pride, but that's not the same as showboating. His actions are symbolic. In investing part of himself in the form of a Dragon, he usurps the mantle of the old dragon gods. In sacrificing the Divine, he usurps the new dominant religion. Corypheus doesn't feel the need to reveal himself before his ascension, but that doesn't mean he can't kill two birds with one stone by using the Divine in his ritual. There's absolutely no evidence that there was anything special about the Divine necessary for the ritual.
It's happened to non-mages. Hell, the Seekers are an entire order of individuals who drew spirits of faith to themselves while tranquil sheerly through the strength of their convictions. Considering there is no veil in the way while physically in the Fade, even in the domain of a demon, it's not astounding that a spirit of faith found its way to her. In the end, all the spirit indicates is that Justinia was genuinely a woman of great Faith, much like Wynne or Cassandra.
1. Then Why does the orb reopen the breach again at the end of the game.
2. Yes, he's driven to pride...So much he would want people to know what he did and see what he did. If Cory was there to Sacrifice the divine out of pride he would do so in way it's seen publicly so he can proclam how great he is and call himself a god not kill her in a back room so it won't be seen. And He does fell the need to reveil himself. That was the very reason he was there at Heaven for everyone in the inquisition to see.
3. As I said before spirit come up for mages, thin veils, and magic. Magic is not exclusive to mages as with the fact non-mages are shown to use magic all the time. All enchantment magic is done majority by non mages with the use of lyrium. Added the very act of becoming a seeker has them become tranquil which means the use of lyrium branding on people.
Both Wynne and Cassandra were effected by magic. Wynne as a mage and Cassandra when a lyium brand was used on her to turn tranquil.
He's using the orb to brute force it, as it wasn't entirely shut. At that point he's pretty much lost all rationality (Which is why its a pretty poor ending sequence) and is just lashing out. The Anchor is needed to enter the Fade safely, hence the name, he's just gone mad because his last ditch alternative was stolen from his grasp. If he didn't need the Inquisitor's Anchor, he would have just ripped open the Breach or create a new one at any time. That's why he was looking for the Eluvian.1. Then Why does the orb reopen the breach again at the end of the game.
No, reread what I showed you, his explicit purpose in Haven is retrieving the Anchor, presumably not something a lackey could do. Corypheus doesn't reveal himself lightly, only when he has to and he didn't plan to leave witnesses.2. Yes, he's driven to pride...So much he would want people to know what he did and see what he did. If Cory was there to Sacrifice the divine out of pride he would do so in way it's seen publicly so he can proclam how great he is and call himself a god not kill her in a back room so it won't be seen. And He does fell the need to reveil himself. That was the very reason he was there at Heaven for everyone in the inquisition to see.
Except that according to the lore, spirits find Tranquil no different than inanimate objects at best and outright repellent at worst. They explicitly lack any connection to the Fade. Normal non-mages have a greater connection to the Fade than they do. You're grasping at straws with that one.3. As I said before spirit come up for mages, thin veils, and magic. Magic is not exclusive to mages as with the fact non-mages are shown to use magic all the time. All enchantment magic is done majority by non mages with the use of lyrium. Added the very act of becoming a seeker has them become tranquil which means the use of lyrium branding on people.
Both Wynne and Cassandra were effected by magic. Wynne as a mage and Cassandra when a lyium brand was used on her to turn tranquil.
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