1194 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

No book, film, television program or game I can think of has made the ridiculous mistake of telling the audience how the protagonist is going to defeat the antagonist or confront the conflict of the story, and then having it proceed without any complications or new information. Of having the audience knowing nothing more after the climax than before it.

 

If you can name one, I'm all ears.

1. Many ending happen with out any new last minute info.

2.Also, it does not need to be too over complex a fight or ending. It not like he just give up and dies on his own in the end.

 

What you want is more drama...An ending does not need to have more drama.. Heck, we already have the breach open again and we're fighting on an island in the sky.

[lynroy]

[BabyPuncher]

If you think that's true, name one besides Inquisition.

 

And as this is fundamentally a dramatic story (or intended to be anyway), yes, I think the most important moment of the story should actually have some drama. Fighting on an island in the sky isn't drama. Merely spectacle.

[Zobert]

the other problem is you are trolling for sympathy and disagreeing with everyone.  I'm still wondering when you are going to tell me that the halo games have better stories than biowares so I can laugh you out of the building. 

 

How is he trolling for sympathy?  It didn't compare to Dragon Age Origins for many reasons, but it still has its moments.  It's not a game that five years from now you'll replay like you would with DAO or even Skyrim.  Comparing a fantasy game with an epic style narrative to a "shoot em" game like Halo doesn't mean its on par with Dragon Age Origins.

 

Imagine these graphics (sans the hair) and DAO's storyline and you have a game you'll sleep with under your pillow at night and hug like a teddy bear.

[BabyPuncher]

How is he trolling for sympathy?  It didn't compare to Dragon Age Origins for many reasons, but it still has its moments.  It's not a game that five years from now you'll replay like you would with DAO or even Skyrim.  Comparing a fantasy game with an epic style narrative to a "shoot em" game like Halo doesn't mean its on par with Dragon Age Origins.

 

Imagine these graphics (sans the hair) and DAO's storyline and you have a game you'll sleep with under your pillow at night and hug like a teddy bear.

 

Origins is better, but still a very long way from a narrative masterpiece.

[midnight tea]

And as this is fundamentally a dramatic story (or intended to be anyway), yes, I think the most important moment of the story should actually have some drama. Fighting on an island in the sky isn't drama. Merely spectacle.

 

I'd like to remind you that it's you who brought up Michael Bay endings here and Bay's endings are all about spectacle, even if there's practically no story at all.

 

So the only thing you seem to care about is SUPERFICIAL drama - maybe not all flashy explosions, but not really something that is subtle on emotional or plot-important level (and there's plenty to be had in DAI, if you actually pay attention).

[Zobert]

Origins is better, but still a very long way from a narrative masterpiece.

 

Only if you define long way as like a centimeter.  Origins was total amazeballs.  Name a game of its TYPE with companions that's better storyline wise and interpersonal dialogue.

 

You can't.

[X Equestris]

Only if you define long way as like a centimeter. Origins was total amazeballs. Name a game of its TYPE with companions that's better storyline wise and interpersonal dialogue.

You can't.

Origins's story was average, and I only found a couple of its companions interesting. So for me, Inquisition matched DAO's story and blew its companions out of the water.

[BabyPuncher]

I'd like to remind you that it's you who brought up Michael Bay endings here and Bay's endings are all about spectacle, even if there's practically no story at all.

 

So the only thing you seem to care about is SUPERFICIAL drama - maybe not all flashy explosions, but not really something that is subtle on emotional or plot-important level (and there's plenty to be had in DAI, if you actually pay attention).

 

Try very diligently to grasp this comically simple concept that has apparently eluded you in life so far: A person comparing A to B does not mean the person is saying B is good. Is that simple and slow enough for you to understand? Getting shot in the head is better than drowning. Does that mean getting shot in the head is something good?

 

Yes, Micheal Bay type movies and games are terrible. That's precisely the point.

[BabyPuncher]

Only if you define long way as like a centimeter.  Origins was total amazeballs.  Name a game of its TYPE with companions that's better storyline wise and interpersonal dialogue.

 

You can't.

 

Easy. Planetscape:Torment. Blows Origin out of the water. The Mass Effect series as well. Although there's no doubt it has a great deal of very serious shortcomings, it consistently delivers brilliant moments Origins doesn't come close to matching.

[midnight tea]

Try very diligently to grasp this comically simple concept that has apparently eluded you in life so far: A person comparing A to B does not mean the is person saying B is good. Is that simple and slow enough for you to understand? Getting shot in the head is better than drowning. Does that mean getting shot in the head is something good?

 

Yes, Micheal Bay type movies and games are terrible. That's precisely the point.

 

 

I love how you're pointing out that I missed your point apparently, while you've missed mine entirely.

I never said you said that Bay's endings are good - I merely pointed out that you bringing Bay's types of endings and compare it favorably to Bioware's in DAI betrays what type of ending you're expecting to get.

[Zobert]

Origins's story was average, and I only found a couple of its companions interesting. So for me, Inquisition matched DAO's story and blew its companions out of the water.

 

Yehhhhh not seeing it.  Varric's recycled from DA2, Iron Bull is no Sten.  Viv is cool but of the companions as a companion only Dorian hits it out of the ballpark as a friend.  A lot of that has to do with the fact that you cannot talk to them except at Skyhold so unless you live there and don't like to adventure....

[BabyPuncher]

I love how you're pointing out that I missed your point apparently, while you've missed mine entirely.

I never said you said that Bay's endings are good - I merely pointed out that you bringing Bay's types of endings and compare it favorably to Bioware's in DAI betrays what type of ending you're expecting to get.

 

I'm expecting an ending which provides very basic fundamentals of conflict and resolution. Which - despite all their other huge and obvious failings - Micheal Bay movies and games have been able to provide. And BioWare has not.
 

[X Equestris]

I'm expecting an ending which provides very basic fundamentals of conflict and resolution. Which - despite all their other huge and obvious failings - Micheal Bay movies and games have been able to provide. And BioWare has not.

You got conflict and resolution.

Conflict: Cory has reopened the Breach.

Resolution: Cory dies and the Inquisition turns its focus to restoring order.

You can argue all you want about whether or not the ending has tension or is good, but you can't deny that there is a conflict and a resolution to said conflict.

[Rekkampum]

How is he trolling for sympathy?  It didn't compare to Dragon Age Origins for many reasons, but it still has its moments.  It's not a game that five years from now you'll replay like you would with DAO or even Skyrim.  Comparing a fantasy game with an epic style narrative to a "shoot em" game like Halo doesn't mean its on par with Dragon Age Origins.

 

Imagine these graphics (sans the hair) and DAO's storyline and you have a game you'll sleep with under your pillow at night and hug like a teddy bear.

 

Let's just say that for someone who cares so much about how stories work, he's literally spent pages trying to deny actual story elements in the narrative.

[BabyPuncher]

You got conflict and resolution.

Conflict: Cory has reopened the Breach.

Resolution: Cory dies and the Inquisition turns its focus to restoring order.

You can argue all you want about whether or not the ending has tension or is good, but you can't deny that there is a conflict and a resolution to said conflict.

 

I sure can. Because the conflict and resolution have to be meaningful. And Inquisition's is not at all.

 

Conflict. My carpet is dirty.

 

Resolution: I vacuum it.

 

Is that a proper story? Is that drama? No. It's a chore. Just like the chore of the Inquisitor defeating Corypheus. It's pointless. There's no reason to care about it. It enunciates nothing.

 

The resolution is not the 'what.' The resolution is the 'why.'

[X Equestris]

I sure can. Because the conflict and resolution have to be meaningful. And Inquisition's is not at all.
 
Conflict. My carpet is dirty.
 
Resolution: I vacuum it.
 
Is that a proper story? Is that drama? No. It's a chore. Just like the chore of the Inquisitor defeating Corypheus. It's pointless. There's no reason to care about it. It enunciates nothing.

And that is a little thing called "subjectivity". I found it meaningful, you did not.

[dragonflight288]

I sure can. Because the conflict and resolution have to be meaningful. And Inquisition's is not at all.

 

Conflict. My carpet is dirty.

 

Resolution: I vacuum it.

 

Is that a proper story? Is that drama? No. It's a chore. Just like the chore of the Inquisitor defeating Corypheus. It's pointless. There's no reason to care about it. It enunciates nothing.

 

The resolution is not the 'what.' The resolution is the 'why.'

 

Then what makes it so meaningless in Inquisition to you?

[midnight tea]

Yes, because getting rid of immortal madman, re-sealing the Breach for good this time and subsequently destroying the orb Solas cared so much about (which pushes him to killing... or "killing" his friend to steal her power) as well as establishing Inquisition as true powerhouse in Thedas - for better or worse - is not meaningful at all...

[BabyPuncher]

And that is a little thing called "subjectivity". I found it meaningful, you did not.

 

Hmm. Let me take a completely wild guess. Could it perhaps be because the game gave you a romance scene on the balcony, and a reception of the companions gushing over the Inquisitor?

[BabyPuncher]

Yes, because getting rid of immortal madman, re-sealing the Breach for good this time and subsequently destroying the orb Solas cared so much about (which pushes him to killing... or "killing" his friend to steal her power) as well as establishing Inquisition as true powerhouse in Thedas - for better or worse - is not meaningful at all...

 

It's not. There are an infinite number of ways a villain can lose with the same result.

 

Maybe he's eating lunch and chokes on a bone and dies. The heroes win, happily ever after for everyone.

Maybe he slips on a rock, conks his head and bleeds out. The heroes win, happily ever after for everyone.

Maybe one of his mooks is practicing at the firing range and an accident happens, killing him. The heroes win, happily ever after for everyone.

Maybe he's in a car crash.

Maybe he simply runs out of money and has to shut down his big evil organization.

Maybe he gets sick.

Maybe his equipment doesn't work properly because some clerk filed the wrong form and received a shipment of wrong parts.

Maybe he gets hit by one of many thousands of artillery rounds, fired by a nameless undertrained private who will never have any idea what he did, and who barely has any clue who he's firing at and why.

Maybe his men are simply lazy and unmotivated and are willing to abandon their jobs for a small payoff.

 

Would you look at that.

 

All different ways a villain can be defeated. All completely realistic. All leading to the same result. The big evil villain is gone. The heroes win. Happily ever after for everyone.

 

All meaningless.

[leaguer of one]

It's not. There are an infinite number of ways a villain can lose with the same result.

 

Maybe he's eating lunch and chokes on a bone and dies. The heroes win, happily ever after for everyone.

Maybe he slips on a rock, conks his head and bleeds out. The heroes win, happily ever after for everyone.

Maybe one of his mooks is practicing at the firing range and an accident happens, killing him. The heroes win, happily ever after for everyone.

Maybe he's in a car crash.

Maybe he simply runs out of money and has to shut down his big evil organization.

Maybe he gets sick.

Maybe his equipment doesn't work properly because some clerk filed the wrong form and received a shipment of wrong parts.

Maybe he gets hit by one of many thousands of artillery rounds, fired by a nameless undertrained private who will never have any idea what he did. Who barely has any clue who he's firing at and why.

Maybe his men are simply lazy and unmotivated and are willing to abandon their jobs for a small payoff.

 

Would you look at that.

 

All different ways a villain can be defeated. All completely realistic. All leading to the same result. The big evil villain is gone. The heroes win. Happily ever after for everyone.

 

All meaningless.

What?

 

You do understand what you think is a valid point can be used with any villian and story no matter what is going on. And that big impact moment was the well of sarrows and Flemeth.

[X Equestris]

Hmm. Let me take a completely wild guess. Could it perhaps be because the game gave you a romance scene on the balcony, and a reception of the companions gushing over the Inquisitor?

No. It let me affect Thedas in a positive way and, unlike ME3's original ending, it was pretty unambiguous about what occurred.

[ZJR12911]

I just thought it was a children's story ending. "Yayyyy we won" I was kind of floored by the lack of any deaths or consequences. Probably Gaider's way of leaving everything neat and tidy for who replaces him as LW for Dragon Age

[BabyPuncher]

No. It let me affect Thedas in a positive way and, unlike ME3's original ending, it was pretty unambiguous about what occurred.

 

'Let you'?

 

Any idiot can write a story that 'lets you' help people and save the world. I can write out a story in five minutes that 'lets you' solve all the problems of Thedas or anywhere else.

 

Templars abuse Mages? Give the player dialogue to convince them that's mean. They nod and smile, never doing it again. Elves are oppressed? Dialogue to say that's not fair. Nobles gasp in realization and vow to never do it again. Big evil army killing innocent people? Give the player a super-duper protagonist that cuts through them all like butter. No more evil army. And for good measure, a resurrection spell to save anybody who was lost.

 

'Letting' the player do good doesn't count for a damn thing on it's own.