1194 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

No, they really don't. The only real strong example I can think of is when Morrigan falls to her knees when she believes she was going to lose her son. Aside from that, there weren't really any moments like that in the game at all.

 

Particularly not at the climax. Which, I've said, was presented as nothing more than a chore for the Inquisitor.

Nope.

 

You as a prisonor in heaven with the mark killing you and everyone going ape when the divine did. You in the future seeing a destroy dark world with a character's face ripped off. You trapped in the fade by envy who is trying to mind rape you. The fall of Heaven. You being physically thrown in the fade with a gigantic Nightmare demon.You trying to deal with a murder plot with near everyone working with their own agenda. Fighting your way to the well of sarrows. 

 

And that just with the quis, other character went through alot as well. So don't say the story had not struggles.

[X Equestris]

No, they really don't. The only real strong example I can think of is when Morrigan falls to her knees when she believes she was going to lose her son. Aside from that, there weren't really any moments like that in the game at all.
 
Particularly not at the climax. Which, I've said, was presented as nothing more than a chore for the Inquisitor.

At the Breach in the prologue, in the first third of the story, after the Battle of Haven, and in their personal quests, the Inquisitor and/or their companions can express doubts and fears about themselves. They exhibit determination and courage in pushing forward. If you can't see that, you have no authority to throw around things like "truth" or "maturity" or "thematically devoid".

[midnight tea]

 

No, they really don't. The only real strong example I can think of is when Morrigan falls to her knees when she believes she was going to lose her son. Aside from that, there weren't really any moments like that in the game at all.

 

Particularly not at the climax. Which, I've said, was presented as nothing more than a chore for the Inquisitor.

 

Um, what about Thom Rainier? Dorian meeting with his father? Romance with Solas or him losing his friend in his personal quest? Cassandra finding out what happened with Seekers? Iron Bull and Chargers? Elf Inquisitor being confronted with the uncomfortable truths about his/her ancient legacy? Or Inquisitor who's a strong believer in Chantry seeing it all broken and dirty? And that's among other things that were already mentioned...

[leaguer of one]

Varric and Cassandra getting into a physical altercation doesn't display the struggle within her after losing the divine and likely many friends? She was so pissd about info being withheld that could have saved Justinia that she resorted to that, that shows struggle within her.

Lile going dark side. Josy choosing between her pacifist convictions in the face of death. Cullen with his lyrium addiction. Bull and his choice between the qun or his friends. Cole path to spirit hood or humanity and facing his pass death. Varric with the one woman he can't have but loves and the fact he is dragging his best friend into danger and maybe there death.....

I can go on.

[BabyPuncher]

Thankfully, I wrote this out on another thread.

 

The characters were generally some of the worst BioWare has written in recent games.

 

What matters is not diversity or backgrounds. What matters is conflicts and the resolutions to them. Conflicts are what make great characters, and that regard, Inquisition is pretty vapid.

 

How many times do any characters in Inquisition face genuine difficulty? How many moments do any of the main characters, including the Inquisitor himself, face fear or despair or desperation? Very few. And if you're looking at conflicts with strong resolutions, it's even fewer.

 

I mean, let's review the conflicts characters face.

 

Inquisitor - Only real struggle is at the attack on Haven, and even then, there isn't a lot of fear shown. For the rest of the game, pretty much nothing. 

 

Sera - Nothing.

 

Vivienne - Nothing.

 

Varric - Nothing. Gets very, very, very mildly upset with Bianca. Whatever the reason was is so forgettable that I can't remember it.

 

Dorian - Very weak. If he was in actual danger, it could have been stronger. As it is, his father is polite and nonthreatening and really does just want to talk to him. It's more bringing up unpleasant memories than anything else, which isn't very strong of a conflict at all.

 

Bull - I get what they were trying to do, but just fell flat for a half dozen or so different reasons.

 

Cole - Not terrible. He does get angry, but it's resolved rather quickly and simply. Works okay as a peripheral character.

 

Blackwall - Started out very promising, and then just fizzles out. He's pardoned, things go back to normal, nothing really meaningful gets said.

 

Solas - Not bad. His own mission was simple, but he has some compelling dialogue in the Arbor Wilds and such. If he was made mandatory, he could have had stronger interactions with Morrigan and the ancient elves.

 

Cassandra - Weak. We've been thoroughly exposed to how corrupt the Templars and Seekers and Chantry are by the time we get around to it. Her romance and desire to be feminine does make up for it somewhat, although that's obviously not something all players will see.

 

Cullen - Eh. He's firm in giving up Lyrium and a tough guy. There's never any real doubt that he's going to be fine.

 

Josephine - Again, we know full well she's going to be fine.

 

Leliana - Lame. And I just wanted to smack her for being stupid.

 

Morrigan - Pretty satisfying, although somewhat diluted by nobody knowing what Flemeth is up to and her motivation to drink from the well not being quite as strong as I'd like. Still, when she drops to her knees in despair when she thinks she's going to lose her son, it's as powerful a moment as any other I can think of in Inquisition. There should have been many more moments like those.

[leaguer of one]

Varric and Cassandra getting into a physical altercation doesn't display the struggle within her after losing the divine and likely many friends? She was so pissd about info being withheld that could have saved Justinia that she resorted to that, that shows struggle within her.

 

 

So your idea of a struggle is to have a character wither in pain on the floor? There's more than one way to show struggle. Not everything as to be as obvious as being bloodied or crying.

 

 

Nope.

 

You as a prisonor in heaven with the mark killing you and everyone going ape when the divine did. You in the future seeing a destroy dark world with a character's face ripped off. You trapped in the fade by envy who is trying to mind rape you. The fall of Heaven. You being physically thrown in the fade with a gigantic Nightmare demon.You trying to deal with a murder plot with near everyone working with their own agenda. Fighting your way to the well of sarrows. 

 

And that just with the quis, other character went through alot as well. So don't say the story had not struggles.

 

 

At the Breach in the prologue, in the first third of the story, after the Battle of Haven, and in their personal quests, the Inquisitor and/or their companions can express doubts and fears about themselves. They exhibit determination and courage in pushing forward. If you can't see that, you have no authority to throw around things like "truth" or "maturity" or "thematically devoid".

 

 

 

 

 

Um, what about Thom Rainier? Dorian meeting with his father? Romance with Solas or him losing his friend in his personal quest? Cassandra finding out what happened with Seekers? Iron Bull and Chargers? Elf Inquisitor being confronted with the uncomfortable truths about his/her ancient legacy? Or Inquisitor who's a strong believer in Chantry seeing it all broken and dirty? And that's among other things that were already mentioned...

 

 

 

Lile going dark side. Josy choosing between her pacifist convictions in the face of death. Cullen with his lyrium addiction. Bull and his choice between the qun or his friends. Cole path to spirit hood or humanity and facing his pass death. Varric with the one woman he can't have but loves and the fact he is dragging his best friend into danger and maybe there death.....

I can go on.

Puncher, Lost of people smell your bs here.

[leaguer of one]

Thankfully, I wrote this out on another thread.

 

The characters were generally some of the worst BioWare has written in recent games.

 

What matters is not diversity or backgrounds. What matters is conflicts and the resolutions to them. Conflicts are what make great characters, and that regard, Inquisition is pretty vapid.

 

How many times do any characters in Inquisition face genuine difficulty? How many moments do any of the main characters, including the Inquisitor himself, face fear or despair or desperation? Very few. And if you're looking at conflicts with strong resolutions, it's even fewer.

 

I mean, let's review the conflicts characters face.

 

Inquisitor - Only real struggle is at the attack on Haven, and even then, there isn't a lot of fear shown. For the rest of the game, pretty much nothing. 

 

Sera - Nothing.

 

Vivienne - Nothing.

 

Varric - Nothing. Gets very, very, very mildly upset with Bianca. Whatever the reason was is so forgettable that I can't remember it.

 

Dorian - Very weak. If he was in actual danger, it could have been stronger. As it is, his father is polite and nonthreatening and really does just want to talk to him. It's more bringing up unpleasant memories than anything else, which isn't very strong of a conflict at all.

 

Bull - I get what they were trying to do, but just fell flat for a half dozen or so different reasons.

 

Cole - Not terrible. He does get angry, but it's resolved rather quickly and simply. Works okay as a peripheral character.

 

Blackwall - Started out very promising, and then just fizzles out. He's pardoned, things go back to normal, nothing really meaningful gets said.

 

Solas - Not bad. His own mission was simple, but he has some compelling dialogue in the Arbor Wilds and such. If he was made mandatory, he could have had stronger interactions with Morrigan and the ancient elves.

 

Cassandra - Weak. We've been thoroughly exposed to how corrupt the Templars and Seekers and Chantry are by the time we get around to it. Her romance and desire to be feminine does make up for it somewhat, although that's obviously not something all players will see.

 

Cullen - Eh. He's firm in giving up Lyrium and a tough guy. There's never any real doubt that he's going to be fine.

 

Josephine - Again, we know full well she's going to be fine.

 

Leliana - Lame. And I just wanted to smack her for being stupid.

 

Morrigan - Pretty satisfying, although somewhat diluted by nobody knowing what Flemeth is up to and her motivation to drink from the well not being quite as strong as I'd like. Still, when she drops to her knees in despair when she thinks she's going to lose her son, it's as powerful a moment as any other I can think of in Inquisition. There should have been many more moments like those.

Wrong. Many people listed the character struggles are. You're just ignoring them. Take your head out of the sand.

[Zobert]

Easy. Planetscape:Torment. Blows Origin out of the water. The Mass Effect series as well. Although there's no doubt it has a great deal of very serious shortcomings, it consistently delivers brilliant moments Origins doesn't come close to matching.

 

Yehhhh, I'm going to have to disagree but then maybe it's because I don't have a penis and watch WWE.

[BabyPuncher]

In any case, this is about the ending. Even if Inquisitor's characters had strong, meaningful conflicts and resolutions, that doesn't mean the ending would.

[BabyPuncher]

Yehhhh, I'm going to have to disagree but then maybe it's because I don't have a penis and watch WWE.

 

I'd consider the central theme of Torment to be pretty gender-neutral.

 

[midnight tea]

Yeah, because it isn't the ending in a sense that it brings conclusion and resolution to everything - simply because the story ain't over yet.

[leaguer of one]

In any case, this is about the ending. Even if Inquisitor's characters had strong, meaningful conflicts and resolutions, that doesn't mean the ending would.

[ZJR12911]

In any case, this is about the ending. Even if Inquisitor's characters had strong, meaningful conflicts and resolutions, that doesn't mean the ending would.

I think the ending was too neat and tidy but it had a meaningful conflict and a meaningful resolution. Personally I would like characters to have the possibility to die, or say screw this and abandon you if they weren't in your good graces. But I feel you are being over dramatic. 

[X Equestris]

Thankfully, I wrote this out on another thread.
 
The characters were generally some of the worst BioWare has written in recent games.
 
What matters is not diversity or backgrounds. What matters is conflicts and the resolutions to them. Conflicts are what make great characters, and that regard, Inquisition is pretty vapid.
 
How many times do any characters in Inquisition face genuine difficulty? How many moments do any of the main characters, including the Inquisitor himself, face fear or despair or desperation? Very few. And if you're looking at conflicts with strong resolutions, it's even fewer.
 
I mean, let's review the conflicts characters face.
 
Inquisitor - Only real struggle is at the attack on Haven, and even then, there isn't a lot of fear shown. For the rest of the game, pretty much nothing. 
 
Sera - Nothing.
 
Vivienne - Nothing.
 
Varric - Nothing. Gets very, very, very mildly upset with Bianca. Whatever the reason was is so forgettable that I can't remember it.
 
Dorian - Very weak. If he was in actual danger, it could have been stronger. As it is, his father is polite and nonthreatening and really does just want to talk to him. It's more bringing up unpleasant memories than anything else, which isn't very strong of a conflict at all.
 
Bull - I get what they were trying to do, but just fell flat for a half dozen or so different reasons.
 
Cole - Not terrible. He does get angry, but it's resolved rather quickly and simply. Works okay as a peripheral character.
 
Blackwall - Started out very promising, and then just fizzles out. He's pardoned, things go back to normal, nothing really meaningful gets said.
 
Solas - Not bad. His own mission was simple, but he has some compelling dialogue in the Arbor Wilds and such. If he was made mandatory, he could have had stronger interactions with Morrigan and the ancient elves.
 
Cassandra - Weak. We've been thoroughly exposed to how corrupt the Templars and Seekers and Chantry are by the time we get around to it. Her romance and desire to be feminine does make up for it somewhat, although that's obviously not something all players will see.
 
Cullen - Eh. He's firm in giving up Lyrium and a tough guy. There's never any real doubt that he's going to be fine.
 
Josephine - Again, we know full well she's going to be fine.
 
Leliana - Lame. And I just wanted to smack her for being stupid.
 
Morrigan - Pretty satisfying, although somewhat diluted by nobody knowing what Flemeth is up to and her motivation to drink from the well not being quite as strong as I'd like. Still, when she drops to her knees in despair when she thinks she's going to lose her son, it's as powerful a moment as any other I can think of in Inquisition. There should have been many more moments like those.

The amount of willful ignorance in this post is staggering. It's almost like trying to argue with a Flat Earther.

[midnight tea]

I think the ending was too neat and tidy but it had a meaningful conflict and a meaningful resolution. Personally I would like characters to have the possibility to die, or say screw this and abandon you if they weren't in your good graces. But I feel you are being over dramatic. 

 

Um, they can, actually. All companions except for Cassandra, Solas and Varric (I think) can leave Inquisition if their approval is low enough. Also, if they're not friends, not all of them will stay with IQ after Corypheus is defeated.

[Eliastion]

Yehhhh, I'm going to have to disagree but then maybe it's because I don't have a penis and watch WWE.

Wat.

[ZJR12911]

Um, they can, actually. All companions except for Cassandra, Solas and Varric (I think) can leave Inquisition if their approval is low enough. Also, if they're not friends, not all of them will stay with IQ after Corypheus is defeated.

I meant leaving at the final battle, I should have been more clear about when. I'm saying like corypheus is coming and Sera who was clearly afraid, having the possibility to just straight up run away if you weren't close.

[leaguer of one]

The amount of willful ignorance in this post is staggering. It's almost like trying to argue with a Flat Earther.

Read what he posted after this when I quoted back every post people stated about the characters conflict in the story....

 

 

 

In any case, this is about the ending. Even if Inquisitor's characters had strong, meaningful conflicts and resolutions, that doesn't mean the ending would.

[Dinerenblanc]

Puncher, Lost of people smell your bs here.

Indeed. His understanding of what makes a struggle is childish. Lying on the floor bloodied is the most shallow form of a struggle.

[leaguer of one]

I meant leaving at the final battle, I should have been more clear about when. I'm saying like corypheus is coming and Sera who was clearly afraid, having the possibility to just straight up run away if you weren't close.

The last battle's nature is not like that. DA2 sure, but that makes no sense in dai. No one is ever too afraid to fight even if not loyal.

[ZJR12911]

The last battle's nature is not like that. DA2 sure, but that makes no sense in dai. No one is ever too afraid to fight even if not loyal.

I just had a piece of dialogue with Sera were she said something like "No one told me about the freakin archdemon" I think that is indicative of fear. Also on my mage run, I gave Ranier I mean Blackwall crap at every turn, I think it would be cool if he would have bailed on me for being such a tool to him. These are just personal things i'd have liked, I don;t think their absence detracts from the game.

[BabyPuncher]

I just had a piece of dialogue with Sera were she said something like "No one told me about the freakin archdemon" I think that is indicative of fear.

 

Not really.

 

That sounds more like a joke than anything else.

[ZJR12911]

Not really.

 

That sounds more like a joke than anything 

You could be right, but sometimes jokes hide fear. That's why the phrase "making light of the situation" exists.

[Kevorka]

The fight could have been better. But the story is what you make. So if you do not like it, it's your fault. The only thing I hated the last time I beat it. The only thing I hated was when Vivien became divine I lost her.

[leaguer of one]

I just had a piece of dialogue with Sera were she said something like "No one told me about the freakin archdemon" I think that is indicative of fear. Also on my mage run, I gave Ranier I mean Blackwall crap at every turn, I think it would be cool if he would have bailed on me for being such a tool to him. These are just personal things i'd have liked, I don;t think their absence detracts from the game.

This is the same Sera who thinks fighting dragons are fun. I don't think that fear. As I said before , it's not that type of last battle. It would make more sense if DA2 had it.