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One of the absolute worst endings I've played. Worse than ME 3.


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#826
ShadowLordXII

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I do not know about ME3 but fact is that the ending of inquisition was absolutely terrible. I would rather converse with my brother and friend seeing as the two of them have played both ME3 and Inquisition, but as of now, the ending in inquisition, I honestly can not imagine an ending worse than that.

 

It may have made far more sense than any other ending.

 

But that doesn't really matter when it was as boring as lying in the bed and staring at the ceiling.

 

Well coming from someone who played all three ME and DA games, ME3's ending is way worst by a mile.

 

There are multiple videos and essays going into detail on exactly why that ending was the worst in recent gaming history if not fictional history.

 

To summarize: The ending is filled with many plot holes that cannot be reconciled or objectively justified; Has no final boss fight or confrontation leaving a bitter anti-climatic taste to the proceedings; It derails the entire central conflict of the whole series; Introduces a huge major character at the last second who essentially redefines the entire series; and has four endings where the only one that doesn't throw-out the main themes and characterization of the series is the one where rocks fall and everyone dies.

 

That's not to mention how ME3's ending was so bad that BW had to re-release an extended version that clarifies their vision of the ending and fixes a few plot holes and adds some closure for those who want it. But does nothing to solve the major fundamental problems like Star-Child's existence which undermines the entire narrative coherence of the whole series and thus is a neatly polished bandaid put over a mortal internal injury.

 

Inquisition ending may be lacking (plenty of room for contention here), but any serious attempt to make it out to be worst than ME3's ending is dead on arrival.


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#827
Cobwebmaster

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No one's saying that Inquisition is perfect or didn't have disappointments or flaws.

 

Where the OP is objectively wrong is by comparing it ME3's ending and saying that Inquisition's ending is inferior. Personal tastes aside, multiple reasons have already been posted as to why this is simply untrue. The OP would've been better-off with just saying that he didn't like the ending and then he'd appear to be more credible.

Where they do compare is in the climax to the game. The common experience of anti climax  (or wtf) is certainly one with which I can identify having played ME3 many times. Developers promising mountains and delivering molehills is not a new experience for a lot of gamers, but Bioware departing from traditionally applauded endings makes the shock that much harder to bear. Whether ME3 is the better or worse is largely a matter of perspective. In my case ME3 is very much "I don't believe it!" while DAI  sucks due to Corphyus's imposed weakness through the war of attrition. The DAI final battle simply boils down to  dealing with a cornered rat, albeit one with a nasty bite. So the DAI ending becomes a mopping up operation rather than a crescendo. What happens to the Inquisitor? Do I really care at this point?

Another common theme but this time worse is the rapid progress of a relatively junior and inexperienced individual to one that commands a huge military and political campaign. At least in ME3 the protagonist is a military officer with a track record of heroism and achievement against the galaxies mortal enemies. I still can't accept that at best a middle rank naval officer, gets to command a galactic fleet in the re-capturing of earth!. In DAI our hero is a virtual unknown and could even be a slave who is stuck with a solution to the rifts. Somehow he ends up commanding huge armies and troop dispositions! Worse the game starts off in  Ferelden where there is a noticeable absence of any military force at all!! Ferelden's army did not contain any Templar's 10 years previously and Redcliffe's Lord was well loved and a champion of his people< Now we hear that he has abandoned them his forces who knows where, while Ferelden's monarch is busy with needlepoint? Puhlease!!

The fantasy element here is similar to the by now famed writing style of tripe producer Ed Greenwood responsible for Forgotten Realms tales on which BG and NWN were based. Having said that because Greenwoods tales were so bad (I guess there are still some around on line if anyone wants to read them though I don't recommend the experience),game developers had little choice but to really build their stuff from scratch and make a decent job of it. Here in DAI we get to by-pass the buffering and embrace the good along with the amendable but deliberately overlooked bad simultaneously.


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#828
ShadowLordXII

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Where they do compare is in the climax to the game. The common experience of anti climax  (or wtf) is certainly one with which I can identify having played ME3 many times. Developers promising mountains and delivering molehills is not a new experience for a lot of gamers, but Bioware departing from traditionally applauded endings makes the shock that much harder to bear. Whether ME3 is the better or worse is largely a matter of perspective. In my case ME3 is very much "I don't believe it!" while DAI  sucks due to Corphyus's imposed weakness through the war of attrition. The DAI final battle simply boils down to  dealing with a cornered rat, albeit one with a nasty bite. So the DAI ending becomes a mopping up operation rather than a crescendo. What happens to the Inquisitor? Do I really care at this point?

Another common theme but this time worse is the rapid progress of a relatively junior and inexperienced individual to one that commands a huge military and political campaign. At least in ME3 the protagonist is a military officer with a track record of heroism and achievement against the galaxies mortal enemies. I still can't accept that at best a middle rank naval officer, gets to command a galactic fleet in the re-capturing of earth!. In DAI our hero is a virtual unknown and could even be a slave who is stuck with a solution to the rifts. Somehow he ends up commanding huge armies and troop dispositions! Worse the game starts off in  Ferelden where there is a noticeable absence of any military force at all!! Ferelden's army did not contain any Templar's 10 years previously and Redcliffe's Lord was well loved and a champion of his people< Now we hear that he has abandoned them his forces who knows where, while Ferelden's monarch is busy with needlepoint? Puhlease!!

The fantasy element here is similar to the by now famed writing style of tripe producer Ed Greenwood responsible for Forgotten Realms tales on which BG and NWN were based. Having said that because Greenwoods tales were so bad (I guess there are still some around on line if anyone wants to read them though I don't recommend the experience),game developers had little choice but to really build their stuff from scratch and make a decent job of it. Here in DAI we get to by-pass the buffering and embrace the good along with the amendable but deliberately overlooked bad simultaneously.

 

A relative grunt becoming leader/hero is an archetype that's been around long before Bioware. Remember how Arthur, a newly made squire, became king by pulling a sword from a stone? BW simply embraced the "Zero to Hero" arc and added a different spin to it like many writers before. Even GRRM uses it with Jon Snow becoming Lord-Commander even though he's only been in the Night's Watch for no more than 2 years and is really young. How is it so bad now? Especially when Inquisition actually goes into plenty of detail on how a relative nobody could become the leader of the Inquisition? (Like how nearly everyone believes that he was blessed by Andraste to save the world?)

 

Teagan was kicked out by the Venatori and left to Denerem for help because he didn't have the strength to repeal them on his own. When you do take the Mage Route, the Royal Army does arrive with Alistair and/or Anora personally leading the force to clean up the mess. In short: Ferelden was about to retake Redcliffe and the Inquisition merely did so in a quicker and cleaner fashion before the Royal army had to engage in a messy siege where many would have died.

 

In Inquisition, you've taken the initiative as opposed to previous games where you reacted and have beaten all of Corypheus' major plots. Each involving a relatively unique solution. The Grey Wardens were beaten through a siege and fending off a nightmare demon in the Fade at the cost of one of Thedas' greatest heroes. The Orlesian Assassination is either stopped through the Game of Thrones, conventionally stopped or allowed to happen so that Celene's rival or former lover can take the throne. The Elven Ruins plot is stopped by taking the power that Cory wanted and the fight against Cory's sidekick has an opportunity for prep time (something that does happen in real life combat).

 

So I think that it's only appropriate that victory is relatively easy at that point. Would the experience improve with an attack on Skyhold itself? Yes! More content for the final battle? Yes! But compare this experience to the insult which was ME3's ending and Inquisition comes off as easily adequate at worst.

 

A "supposed" easy victory is still far better than a contrived defeat which ME3's ending essentially amounts to in a thematic and practical sense.

 

I could also go into the details about some aspects of ME3's major plotline where the plot again contrives the story to where Shepard "loses" despite being fully capable of otherwise. Best cases in point being the Virmire Survivor being held hostage and injured on Mars; Kai Leng's character and how the story shoves Thessia's loss down our throats. But that would take a bit too long for one post. Even at it's climax, ME3's plot contrivances and inconsistencies sabotages any entertainment value or emotional stake that you have in that situation.

 

I don't understand the point of your last sentence. Can you clarify?


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#829
TaHol

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My biggest problem with the ending was that at that point I did not give a crap. Because....TADAA....Altar of Mythal. When Flemeth marched in, I was DONE with this games story. Whatever happened in story after that precise moment, was irrelevant to me. So, I accept that in this games the so-called Story is a farce, and decent companions are only thing that somewhat makes it worth to drag me through one more time. Really, Flemeth? Well, Coryphant should be dead too, my Hawke gave him euthanasia for good, and then they decide to raise him from death to write their GOTY-game. I find this so...so...pathetic. Are they REALLY that out of ideas? Mage and Templar-war could have been an exellent main plotline, plenty of things could have developed from it. Where is real creativity? I see none. In that light the ending being an anticlimax was just the icing on the cake, I did not expect any better.



#830
KaiserShep

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My biggest problem with the ending was that at that point I did not give a crap. Because....TADAA....Altar of Mythal. When Flemeth marched in, I was DONE with this games story. Whatever happened in story after that precise moment, was irrelevant to me. So, I accept that in this games the so-called Story is a farce, and decent companions are only thing that somewhat makes it worth to drag me through one more time. Really, Flemeth? Well, Coryphant should be dead too, my Hawke gave him euthanasia for good, and then they decide to raise him from death to write their GOTY-game. I find this so...so...pathetic. Are they REALLY that out of ideas? Mage and Templar-war could have been an exellent main plotline, plenty of things could have developed from it. Where is real creativity? I see none. In that light the ending being an anticlimax was just the icing on the cake, I did not expect any better.

 

Did you not find it a bit odd that Flemeth made some kind of weird deal with a Dalish keeper, and part of herself was reconstituted from a magic amulet atop a Dalish altar? It seems to me that her connection to the elves was given pretty strong hints well before this game.

 

As for Corypheus, you make it seem as if his presence in Inquisition was a retcon or something. I have no doubt that Corypheus' involvement was always meant to go beyond a mere DLC, and that's on top of the hint that he may have passed on his consciousness somehow.

 

Regarding the mage/Templar war, I honestly see nothing about their conflict that makes it worth wrapping around the plot of an entire game.



#831
Pierce Miller

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Am I the only one that felt like DAI was a step in the right direction in a narrative sense? I mean sure I feel like there's a lot less choice which is a serious problem for a game like this but I was happy that this game returned to the grand scale. The ending for me had something of an emotional payoff, I felt like my character could actually use his power to make Thedas change and I'm happy with that.

 

There is however one thing that I seriously had wished was possible. There's a point in the game where you can ask Morrigan whether or not you could use the Anchor to enter the Black city and become a God just like Corypheus wanted to do. I would've absolutely loved it if you could actually have your character do this, all your companions trying to stop you and you kill them all before ascending. Gloriously evil  :devil: and obviously non-canon but still it'd be just beautiful.


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#832
midnight tea

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Well... who said that's not going to happen in either large DLC or next DA? We can't really tell what's the future of either Inquisition or Inquisitor, plus - like I mentioned somewhere else - the question whether Inquisition would become force that deliver or destroy Thedas remains unanswered.



#833
dragonflight288

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A relative grunt becoming leader/hero is an archetype that's been around long before Bioware. Remember how Arthur, a newly made squire, became king by pulling a sword from a stone? BW simply embraced the "Zero to Hero" arc and added a different spin to it like many writers before. Even GRRM uses it with Jon Snow becoming Lord-Commander even though he's only been in the Night's Watch for no more than 2 years and is really young. How is it so bad now? Especially when Inquisition actually goes into plenty of detail on how a relative nobody could become the leader of the Inquisition? (Like how nearly everyone believes that he was blessed by Andraste to save the world?)

 

Teagan was kicked out by the Venatori and left to Denerem for help because he didn't have the strength to repeal them on his own. When you do take the Mage Route, the Royal Army does arrive with Alistair and/or Anora personally leading the force to clean up the mess. In short: Ferelden was about to retake Redcliffe and the Inquisition merely did so in a quicker and cleaner fashion before the Royal army had to engage in a messy siege where many would have died.

 

In Inquisition, you've taken the initiative as opposed to previous games where you reacted and have beaten all of Corypheus' major plots. Each involving a relatively unique solution. The Grey Wardens were beaten through a siege and fending off a nightmare demon in the Fade at the cost of one of Thedas' greatest heroes. The Orlesian Assassination is either stopped through the Game of Thrones, conventionally stopped or allowed to happen so that Celene's rival or former lover can take the throne. The Elven Ruins plot is stopped by taking the power that Cory wanted and the fight against Cory's sidekick has an opportunity for prep time (something that does happen in real life combat).

 

So I think that it's only appropriate that victory is relatively easy at that point. Would the experience improve with an attack on Skyhold itself? Yes! More content for the final battle? Yes! But compare this experience to the insult which was ME3's ending and Inquisition comes off as easily adequate at worst.

 

A "supposed" easy victory is still far better than a contrived defeat which ME3's ending essentially amounts to in a thematic and practical sense.

 

I could also go into the details about some aspects of ME3's major plotline where the plot again contrives the story to where Shepard "loses" despite being fully capable of otherwise. Best cases in point being the Virmire Survivor being held hostage and injured on Mars; Kai Leng's character and how the story shoves Thessia's loss down our throats. But that would take a bit too long for one post. Even at it's climax, ME3's plot contrivances and inconsistencies sabotages any entertainment value or emotional stake that you have in that situation.

 

I don't understand the point of your last sentence. Can you clarify?

 

Totally this.

 

The biggest difference between Inquisition and other games they've made is that we're proactive and going after the threat directly. 

 

Jade Empire: Spirit Monk wants to rescue friend and then goes on quest to rescue his/her master after Two Rivers is destroyed by the Lotus Assassins. Then works to save the world after a huge plot twist.

 

KOTOR: Our character is a Sith Lord who had his memory erased and is being used by the Jedi to find the Star Forge.

 

DA Origins: The Warden joins the Wardens after reacting to events of their origin, and reacts to the loss at Ostagar to build their own army, and then reacts to what's happening in each place they go to.

 

DA2: Hawke simply reacts or does things when asked by those in power. The only proactive thing he/she does the entire game is try to go into the deep roads expedition as a way to get out of the city for awhile because templars are asking questions. 

 

Inquisition: We know what the enemy is planning, now let's counter it, weaken his power base while building our own.

 

I have absolutely nothing wrong with that. I was hoping for an ending similar to this. 

 

Skyhold is under attack, Corypheus' army is destroyed but our army isn't back yet. Strategically use our companions and what forces we do have, risk of companions dying, use the upgrades in the keep like the mages/templar tower providing backup and the courtyard upgrade either having better trained, thus harder hitting more health point soldiers or an infirmary where if they die they can get back up again one more time because their injuries were patched up, thus hold out and defeat Corypheus.

 

This would've been a great ending, but I'm not going to complain about what we do have. It felt very natural and logical for things to end as they did. 


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#834
Cankiie

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I can agree that the ending was quite sensible, but, it was executed in a very anti climatic way.


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#835
Cobwebmaster

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A relative grunt becoming leader/hero is an archetype that's been around long before Bioware. Remember how Arthur, a newly made squire, became king by pulling a sword from a stone? BW simply embraced the "Zero to Hero" arc and added a different spin to it like many writers before. Even GRRM uses it with Jon Snow becoming Lord-Commander even though he's only been in the Night's Watch for no more than 2 years and is really young. How is it so bad now? Especially when Inquisition actually goes into plenty of detail on how a relative nobody could become the leader of the Inquisition? (Like how nearly everyone believes that he was blessed by Andraste to save the world?)

 

Teagan was kicked out by the Venatori and left to Denerem for help because he didn't have the strength to repeal them on his own. When you do take the Mage Route, the Royal Army does arrive with Alistair and/or Anora personally leading the force to clean up the mess. In short: Ferelden was about to retake Redcliffe and the Inquisition merely did so in a quicker and cleaner fashion before the Royal army had to engage in a messy siege where many would have died.

 

In Inquisition, you've taken the initiative as opposed to previous games where you reacted and have beaten all of Corypheus' major plots. Each involving a relatively unique solution. The Grey Wardens were beaten through a siege and fending off a nightmare demon in the Fade at the cost of one of Thedas' greatest heroes. The Orlesian Assassination is either stopped through the Game of Thrones, conventionally stopped or allowed to happen so that Celene's rival or former lover can take the throne. The Elven Ruins plot is stopped by taking the power that Cory wanted and the fight against Cory's sidekick has an opportunity for prep time (something that does happen in real life combat).

 

So I think that it's only appropriate that victory is relatively easy at that point. Would the experience improve with an attack on Skyhold itself? Yes! More content for the final battle? Yes! But compare this experience to the insult which was ME3's ending and Inquisition comes off as easily adequate at worst.

 

A "supposed" easy victory is still far better than a contrived defeat which ME3's ending essentially amounts to in a thematic and practical sense.

 

I could also go into the details about some aspects of ME3's major plotline where the plot again contrives the story to where Shepard "loses" despite being fully capable of otherwise. Best cases in point being the Virmire Survivor being held hostage and injured on Mars; Kai Leng's character and how the story shoves Thessia's loss down our throats. But that would take a bit too long for one post. Even at it's climax, ME3's plot contrivances and inconsistencies sabotages any entertainment value or emotional stake that you have in that situation.

 

I don't understand the point of your last sentence. Can you clarify?

Tegan was kicked out by the Venatori, but would you as lord desert your people in their hour of need? Besides Tevinter showing up just to rescue a bunch of mages makes no sense. Tegan fought tooth and nail against undead more than a few of which had been his brother's knights and men at arms to try and save Redcliffe Village,and it's castle. He even risked his own life to find out what had become of his brother and was ensorcelled for his trouble. Yet now he is Arl, rather than send a bann or an urgent message to give news of a Tevinter invasion he leaves his people to whatever fate has in store for them? King Alastair (or whoever) arrives after it is all over and the mages have been dealt with?  A barely plausible explanation or a footnote to the story particularly if Alastair the trained Templar is King

We can debate this issue for as long as is necessary without either convincing the other about whether I bought a turkey or a well conceived gaming experience. For those that played DAO  the puzzling conflicts with Ferelden's recent history are obvious Such rough edges for me are more than " It would have been nice if..!". There are major inconsistencies in the continuance of the political events in DA lore, but more importantly, the structure of the game  itself moves towards player exhaustion  rather than just having good fun. The ending was anti climatic I don't think there is any doubt about that, but whereas in ME3 the RPG and combat improved (there were a few minor plotholes and I thought the romances/cutscenes were immature), but apart from the ending I thought it a fun, fulfilling, and rewarding experience which kept me moving with the story

It is not for me to rewrite the entire story, and why would we need Skyhold to be assaulted? What with? Corypheus has been taken care of and the way in which that happened was predictable. In those terms, you can look at the ending as the end of a long road in dealing with the problem that manifested itself at the start of the game. On reflection it is conceivable that there was never going to be a grand finale as such with too many unresolved political issues in Thedas. However the inquisitor's role in this is concluded, and retirement into anonymity is perhaps a more appealing option than one of empire builder especially for an overexposed Dalish, but the opportunities for Cassandra, Leliana, and the former paranoid junior Templar in Ferelden's mage circle are manyfold (wearily resigned to more Maker nonsense, the resurrection of the Chantry and the repression or conversion of the elves and dwarves

I agree that the Inquisition is a movement born in a vacuum created largely in Ferelden by the absence of any military force in the west of the country, which last time I heard was regarded as a vital defence against incursions from Orlais (which it will get if Gaspard wins) and/or Tevinter.

With regard to my final sentence,  If you look at Greenwood's tales as the base on which  team BG/NWN built the ensuing game benchmark setters, I like to think that they saw huge potential and took the opportunity to avoid or otherwise negate the glaringly obvious flaws in the writing of the Forgotten Realms stories. In DAI we get   the warts as well. so in trying to please all  gamers all of the time a lot of tight control in producing a fulfilling achievement and experience for single players at least was simply either overlooked or ignored for the sake of expediency. 

But what do I know? I'm just an old BG gamer who loved the way Bioware put RPGs together continued and improved in ME, but lost in DAI through the presence of so much other dross which was tedium inducing for me anyway

I'm not looking for reasons or for any Bioware agent trying to convince me that I am incorrect or simply outdated in my thinking about gaming. I'm just airing my great disappointment with DAI and giving reasons why I am not thinking of buying any more games that are produced under the Bioware label if this is going to be their way forward

Whether Bioware learns anything from this or similar comments is a matter for them. Based on recent achievements I think it unlikely that what I or others think matters in the slightest to an organisation that has a new profit plan and is sticking to it. For the future I at least will be saving my money towards something more worthwhile playing



#836
dragonflight288

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I can agree that the ending was quite sensible, but, it was executed in a very anti climatic way.

 

Anticlimatic? I don't really think so. 

 

And anticlimatic ending would be where the whole tone changes and is utterly unexpected, theme and motifs change and you're left with a feeling of "What?"

 

I can get that the ending is not as good as it could've been, but I wouldn't call it anti-climatic because the tone pretty much was there, Corypheus was on his last leg and we knew it before the final battle, and it really was mopping up what was left of his mess. True it meant fighting an ancient darkspawn magister who doesn't know the meaning of the words "give up" and the fight itself could have been done better, but again, I wouldn't call it anticlimatic at all. 

 

Wanting more, yeah, but I wasn't left with a feeling of abject disappointment nor was I confused and had a bunch of last-minute information dumped on me that changes the whole narrative. 


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#837
dragonflight288

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Tegan was kicked out by the Venatori, but would you as lord desert your people in their hour of need? Besides Tevinter showing up just to rescue a bunch of mages makes no sense. Tegan fought tooth and nail against undead more than a few of which had been his brother's knights and men at arms to try and save Redcliffe Village,and it's castle. He even risked his own life to find out what had become of his brother and was ensorcelled for his trouble. Yet now he is Arl, rather than send a bann or an urgent message to give news of a Tevinter invasion he leaves his people to whatever fate has in store for them? King Alastair (or whoever) arrives after it is all over and the mages have been dealt with?  A barely plausible explanation or a footnote to the story particularly if Alastair the trained Templar is King

 

Teagan didn't desert his people in their time of need. He went to get reinforcements. He pretty much did the same thing Shepard did at the beginning of ME3, left the immediate fight because it couldn't be won at that moment and came back later with an army. 

 

If you're going to go this route though, why don't you ask why Teagan was in Redcliff in Origins when he is the bann of Rainisfere and not Redcliff? Or did he abandon Rainisfere during the blight?



#838
Cankiie

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Anticlimatic? I don't really think so. 

 

And anticlimatic ending would be where the whole tone changes and is utterly unexpected, theme and motifs change and you're left with a feeling of "What?"

 

I can get that the ending is not as good as it could've been, but I wouldn't call it anti-climatic because the tone pretty much was there, Corypheus was on his last leg and we knew it before the final battle, and it really was mopping up what was left of his mess. True it meant fighting an ancient darkspawn magister who doesn't know the meaning of the words "give up" and the fight itself could have been done better, but again, I wouldn't call it anticlimatic at all. 

 

Wanting more, yeah, but I wasn't left with a feeling of abject disappointment nor was I confused and had a bunch of last-minute information dumped on me that changes the whole narrative. 

 

definitely anti-climatic. The last confrontation with Corypheus was in no way striking, the way it all was executed made it no more threatening than an angry cocker spaniel, so yes, it was very anti-climatic.

 

The ending was sensible but terribly executed. There were obviously demons, inquisition soliders and a fort which we, for some weird reason, decided to rebuild, you would expect something with that, yet all you get is a cinematic where your inquisitor and, I believe Cassandra is always there, walks up to Corypheus and then the boss fight happens. That could have been the very definition of an anticlimax.



#839
midnight tea

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It's no fort - those were remains of the Temple of Sacred Ashes, which are exactly below the Breach.

Also - considering that Corypheus managed to lift the ruins several hundred feet into the air, whether Inquisitor comes with his/her whole army or a group of soldiers is pretty much irrelevant, as they would not be useful at all.


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#840
dragonflight288

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definitely anti-climatic. The last confrontation with Corypheus was in no way striking, the way it all was executed made it no more threatening than an angry cocker spaniel, so yes, it was very anti-climatic.

 

The ending was sensible but terribly executed. There were obviously demons, inquisition soliders and a fort which we, for some weird reason, decided to rebuild, you would expect something with that, yet all you get is a cinematic where your inquisitor and, I believe Cassandra is always there, walks up to Corypheus and then the boss fight happens. That could have been the very definition of an anticlimax.

 

I disagree. 

 

Corypheus has had his army wiped out in the Arbor Wilds, he lost all hope of having his demon army at Adamant, he lost political leverage and creating chaos at the Winter Palace. 

 

A being as arrogant as him simply won't slink off into the shadows to rebuild. He wanted to face you head on, having lost nearly everything that gave him power. All he had left was he dragon and the orb because the Inquisitor was proactive in countering things he knew were going to happen but had not yet happened. 

 

Corypheus had no army. We destroyed the Venatori/Templar one, kept him from getting a demon one and mage Orlais far more stable so he can't call on the chaos any more. 

 

He was wittled down, little by little, until he made a last stand because he had nothing left. There is nothing anticlimatic about that. We agree it could have been done better, but I think as far as the ending is concerned, that's all we agree on. 

 

Very few, if any, video game protagonist are as proactive in dealing with a threat as the Inquisitor is. Most react to what the villain or antagonist does. Most villains in video games are at the height of their power when challenged as a boss of the game or have a weakness that must be exploited. Corypheus is the first (or at least only one I can think of off the top of my head) where his power base has been effectively obliterated by the protagonist and his rising force before the final battle. 

 

Like I said, it didn't feel anticlimatic for me at all because I saw it for what it was. A desperate last stand designed to take down the Inquisitor and prove his power or die. It was all or nothing for Corypheus. His pride wouldn't allow anything else. 


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#841
Eliastion

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It WAS anticlimatic. Being sensible doesn't prevent it from being anticlimatic.
Expectation of something more than a boring, easy fight with no real feeling of epicness was a let-down mostly for metagaming reasons: people expected a strong accent at the end, some twist that would make the last effort (and victory) something to be proud of, something you get a sense of accomplishment from. Not because they knew/thought they knew of some last trump card Cory had, but because they felt like they're at the point where the big finale happens. And it just didn't. Imagine, though, if Cory descended with his dragon on Skyhold itself, destroying the bridge in the process (no off-keep reinforcements for you), ripping open a new breach spewing uncontrollable demons... not Cory's minions, really, it's just that your people would be in vicinity.
Then the game could give you a timer - this breach was intentional so it would be spreading and ripping Skyhold apart. Your primary quest wouldn't be killing Cory (assisted by his dragon so that you need to fight both at the same time) - you would explicitly have to get the Orb from him: a tiny detail making it somewhat less straightforward than "finally killing the annoying dude off" even if gameplay-wise the difference wouldn't be huge. Then let's throw in people (your people) scattered across Skyhold, fighting the demons for their lives... and then there's your party - you can't just pick up, you start alone with markers on the map and you need to collect them around the location if you want to use them for the fight... AND THE CLOCK IS TICKING.
Those are all just random ideas off the top of my hat, but taking and polishing them would make the final encounter into something a little bit different than all the other fights. Something memorable in and of itself. Something with a bit of feeling of danger as you not only need to kill the bad guy but protect your home and your people before it's too late... the fact that Corypheus doesn't have too much power and his plans have been thwarted already wouldn't make any difference - it's not that he's not finished in this scenario, but that his last rampage can cost you, and the world, too much. After all, at this point, he wants vengeance and destruction, if he was still going on about his godhood plans, he would hide and wait... but he wants to show you, he wants to show the world, even if he were to die in the process - why couldn't this be even more dangerous?

Hell. He could even just go and summon Nightmare willingly becoming an abomination. Imagine a corybomination with THIS demon inside... (that's random even among my random thoughts but JUST THINK ABOUT IT :D )
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#842
ShadowLordXII

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It WAS anticlimatic. Being sensible doesn't prevent it from being anticlimatic.
Expectation of something more than a boring, easy fight with no real feeling of epicness was a let-down mostly for metagaming reasons: people expected a strong accent at the end, some twist that would make the last effort (and victory) something to be proud of, something you get a sense of accomplishment from. Not because they knew/thought they knew of some last trump card Cory had, but because they felt like they're at the point where the big finale happens. And it just didn't. Imagine, though, if Cory descended with his dragon on Skyhold itself, destroying the bridge in the process (no off-keep reinforcements for you), ripping open a new breach spewing uncontrollable demons... not Cory's minions, really, it's just that your people would be in vicinity.
Then the game could give you a timer - this breach was intentional so it would be spreading and ripping Skyhold apart. Your primary quest wouldn't be killing Cory (assisted by his dragon so that you need to fight both at the same time) - you would explicitly have to get the Orb from him: a tiny detail making it somewhat less straightforward than "finally killing the annoying dude off" even if gameplay-wise the difference wouldn't be huge. Then let's throw in people (your people) scattered across Skyhold, fighting the demons for their lives... and then there's your party - you can't just pick up, you start alone with markers on the map and you need to collect them around the location if you want to use them for the fight... AND THE CLOCK IS TICKING.
Those are all just random ideas off the top of my hat, but taking and polishing them would make the final encounter into something a little bit different than all the other fights. Something memorable in and of itself. Something with a bit of feeling of danger as you not only need to kill the bad guy but protect your home and your people before it's too late... the fact that Corypheus doesn't have too much power and his plans have been thwarted already wouldn't make any difference - it's not that he's not finished in this scenario, but that his last rampage can cost you, and the world, too much. After all, at this point, he wants vengeance and destruction, if he was still going on about his godhood plans, he would hide and wait... but he wants to show you, he wants to show the world, even if he were to die in the process - why couldn't this be even more dangerous?

Hell. He could even just go and summon Nightmare willingly becoming an abomination. Imagine a corybomination with THIS demon inside... (that's random even among my random thoughts but JUST THINK ABOUT IT :D )

 

For what it's worth, I'll admit that this ending sounds very exciting and would be a better alternative to what we got.

 

But that doesn't mean that we got was awful. I'd call it a missed opportunity at worst and it's not the only one that Inquisition lets pass by.


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#843
Cankiie

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I disagree. 

 

Corypheus has had his army wiped out in the Arbor Wilds, he lost all hope of having his demon army at Adamant, he lost political leverage and creating chaos at the Winter Palace. 

 

A being as arrogant as him simply won't slink off into the shadows to rebuild. He wanted to face you head on, having lost nearly everything that gave him power. All he had left was he dragon and the orb because the Inquisitor was proactive in countering things he knew were going to happen but had not yet happened. 

 

Corypheus had no army. We destroyed the Venatori/Templar one, kept him from getting a demon one and mage Orlais far more stable so he can't call on the chaos any more. 

 

He was wittled down, little by little, until he made a last stand because he had nothing left. There is nothing anticlimatic about that. We agree it could have been done better, but I think as far as the ending is concerned, that's all we agree on. 

 

Very few, if any, video game protagonist are as proactive in dealing with a threat as the Inquisitor is. Most react to what the villain or antagonist does. Most villains in video games are at the height of their power when challenged as a boss of the game or have a weakness that must be exploited. Corypheus is the first (or at least only one I can think of off the top of my head) where his power base has been effectively obliterated by the protagonist and his rising force before the final battle. 

 

Like I said, it didn't feel anticlimatic for me at all because I saw it for what it was. A desperate last stand designed to take down the Inquisitor and prove his power or die. It was all or nothing for Corypheus. His pride wouldn't allow anything else. 

 

The problem is exactly the rift he suddenly (re)opened that apparently was massive and world destroying. We already experienced what a open rift of that magnitude would mean in the beginning of the game, it means demons and in this case it could mean a lot of demons.

 

Incredibly anti-climatic because as ShadowLord mentioned, the developers did not take the opportunity they had, to make a more exciting finish.

 

Even seeing that rift opening lifted the expectation "**** is going down now" and we are greeted with nothing. Anti-climatic due to being poorly executed and poorly thought out.



#844
midnight tea

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Iron Bull did mention that people on ground had to fight demons. It's not like the fight didn't happen between whatever forces Inquisitor brought to Valley Of Sacred Ashes - it's just that everything happened below, while Inquisitor has been trapped on flying rock with few companions that managed not to fall down (like Harding did).

Credit where credit's due - Cory might have been mad, but he wasn't entirely insane and displayed some strategic thinking capabilities: instead of attacking the Inquisitor where he/she was the strongest (in her/his own keep), he picked a location that Inquisition forces had to arrive scattered (there's no straight road connecting Skyhold with Temple that we know about, only snowy passage people used while escaping Haven) and also one which was corrupted (lots of Red Lyrium growing in ruins of the Temple, probably strengthening him aallwing to summon the last demons ha actually could summon at that point) - not to mention one that interested him in the first place, as it was right under the Breach, which is where the Veil was the weakest.

Let's not forget that Inquisitor didn't shut it perfectly before - the skies were 'scarred but calm' - and eventually it took a powerful elven relic to heal it entirely (and orb got destroyed in the result).

 

In other words - attacking Skyhold would be poorly thought out from storytelling perspective. Not to mention that in Kotaku Asks the devs revealed that they never planned Skyhold to be attacked, mainly due to performance issues. 

 

In other words, it's not as inept as you think it is - for what it is, it's actually pretty smart and efficient, story and strategy-wise, even if the scope or length could be better.


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#845
TEWR

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To be honest I didn't feel much of a build-up at all from the game. Individual plots were fine, but as a general story I didn't find much build-up in it. No sense of suspense and thus while I agree the end wasn't climactic, saying it was anti-climactic to me would indicate that there was some sort of build-up to begin with.

 

As for what the ending should've been....

 

To me it would be us fighting through some of the last vestiges of Cory's army on the slopes of the Frostbacks leading to Haven, now fighting harder then ever because they're desperate, with Rifts spawning out waves of Demons even if we're no where near them (that was a mechanic that I thought was stupid, how we had to get near them for combat to start. The rifts were supposed to act independent of the Mark, not because of it) that make things harder. This would obviously have to have the entire gameplay of the game be different, where the Venatori/Red Templars/Demons are a greater threat in the base game, so that them being a threat now wouldn't seem inconsistent and paint them as rather sad.

 

When we get to Corypheus finally, after killing Red Templars and Venatori, he raises the remains of the temple as happened before, but then uses the orb to control us into opening up a massive Rift in the sky that the entire temple passes through, now having us enter the Fade (because the Anchor is the only thing that allows safe passage into the Fade, per Weekes). Corypheus and his Dragon, now within the Fade, make a beeline for the Black City. If Morrigan drank from the Well, she joins us and turns into her dragon form so that we can catch up to him. If we drank, same deal but the Guardian of Mythal joins us instead.

 

As the two dragons are neck and neck with each other, the one we ride eventually assaults Cory's dragon and brings us down to a piece of the Fade that's remarkably close to the Black City and we get a glimpse of it, better then we ever got before. Our final showdown is in the Fade, and as we fight Corypheus he shows a master of the arcane that truly lives up to legend. Hellfire rains down upon us in the Fade, and if we try to run far away a blockade of flames will rise up, forcing the fight. A deep blizzard will rage, freezing us in place if we can't resist it, dealing constant damage to us. Lightning will billow forth from the skies of the Fade striking us at random intervals. He'll cast a barrier on himself that isn't easily destroyed. Perhaps even use the skills of a Knight-Enchanter, given that Tevinter took Elven lore and magic for its own use. He'll throw down fire mines and ice mines too. Basically just give him a lot of magical talents that we can also use, so that he really comes across as a Magister. 

 

Perhaps instead of Fade Rush, it's called Blight Rush, and if he passes through any of our characters they're automatically poisoned.

 

And because of the connection to his Corrupted High Dragon, when it comes down to fight us after having fought the GoM/Morridragon -- that was the only epic thing about the final battle, seeing that happen throughout the fight -- perhaps Cory retreats to a level where we can't touch him (perhaps he erects a barrier to shield him from attacks) but as we fight the Dragon Cory is still taking the time to attack us with his spells. The dragon battle would be redone to not just be another re-skinned Dragon fight that's beyond tedious.

 

And perhaps once the Dragon is killed, Cory gets a last bit of help from the Nightmare Demon. But the Demon doesn't pop in itself (as this isn't its domain) but sends numerous other Fear Demons to attack us (who would also have a gameplay change to make them more impressive combat wise). Cory is on his last legs with us, fighting harder then before, now using his immense physical strength gained from the Blight to try and finish us off in tandem with his spells.

 

And then when he's finally beaten, instead of an INSTA-KILL on him we have a little final talk with him. Because to be honest, I HATE how he's referred by the devs as "arrogance personified" when they don't even truly grasp how he's a broken man.

 

A broken man who has done many atrocious acts that cannot be defended (the corruption of the Templars), but he's still a man. Flung from time into an era he cannot fathom, with a God that doesn't interact with his faithful, his gods either dead or silent while simultaneously being outlawed by the Chantry. His friends from the era, vanished without a trace, and he continues on to gain the throne of the gods not just for himself but for them also. He needs to see it through, to finish what they started, so that the sacrifice will mean something.\

 

These are things I touched on in my Corypheus tag on tumblr.


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#846
dragonflight288

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@ TEWR

 

That would also have been an epic ending. 

 

I agree that the rifts could have been handled better. 



#847
TEWR

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It's a rough idea that needs more thought put into it, but the final battle should've been in the Fade. 

 

Def. not the Black City though. That can be in the background but to have the final battle there would strain credulity because I'd ask myself "How are we not getting tainted?"


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#848
dragonflight288

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It's a rough idea that needs more thought put into it, but the final battle should've been in the Fade. 

 

Def. not the Black City though. That can be in the background but to have the final battle there would strain credulity because I'd ask myself "How are we not getting tainted?"

 

The same way we actually don't know the full story of what happened. 

 

We may see that there actually is something in the Black City that does the tainting, but not necessarily the city itself. 



#849
TEWR

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True. It's entirely possible Andruil's Superweapon was crafted from the Void that she went in at times and carried out to the world, stored safely away in the Golden City and was responsible for the glamour going on (since Cory says it was black within, golden outside). Something along those lines anyway.



#850
Eliastion

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For what it's worth, I'll admit that this ending sounds very exciting and would be a better alternative to what we got.
 
But that doesn't mean that we got was awful. I'd call it a missed opportunity at worst and it's not the only one that Inquisition lets pass by.

Well, while I'm disappointed with the ending, I really don't have as much hate for it as some people do - it didn't break the lore, it didn't break my suspension of disbelief, it, at the very least, made sense. This does count for something in my book. My whole problem with it is that it was just meh and I don't like endings to be meh.
Oh, and at the very least it did qualify as an ending - I don't think I can be really disappointed in any not-game-destroying ending after the "congratulations the winner is you" kind I got from Civilization: Beyond Earth. Seriously, a game with pretty neat gameplay so completely wasted on this non-writing wrapped up with non-ending followed by non-epilogue... and that was a game aspiring to be SM Alpha Centauri spiritual successor? Whenever I think of C:BE, I start appreciating DA:I's ending ;)
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