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[BabyPuncher]

Well I always got the impression that Cory wasn't extremely strong, just the threat he posed was incredible. By the last battle, you have destroyed his army, his resources, etc. I think the whole idea was to focus on building an inquisition to face the threat. Cory was already shown not to be that powerful in DA:2, when Hawke scraps him. It wasn't Cory who was supposed to be strong and a tough battle, it was taking down everything he had built to that point... The battle in the arbor wilds was supposed to be that big/triumphant battle where you destroy his army. When you get to Cory he has nothing but a dragon, and the power he is sacking from the orb,except you have the anchor which makes his power moot really. That's why at the end, when you find out about solas, you're supposed to be like shiiiiit, I was worrying about the wrong guy the whole time...

 

The antagonist in stories is very often a great deal weaker than the protagonist. There still needs to be a climax. You still can't have the protagonist just kill him with no struggles or challenges.

[Lebanese Dude]

In ME3, no matter what you do the odds of success against the immediate and infinitely powerful reapers are next to nothing. Your entire hope hinges on attaching a construct to the Citadel with no clue wtf is going to happen once you do. The closer you get to the climax, the more hopeless things seem against the ever-encroaching OP enemy force.

 

DAI does it in the opposite manner. The situation is utterly hopeless and then as Cassandra puts it "You came out of nowhere when we needed you most". You spend the entire game dismantling his plots one by one, sometimes almost losing (Mage future, Templar fade, Haven, Fade), eventually leading to a showdown against a dramatically weakened and desperate enemy with no support whatsoever.

 

Perspective is great.

[90s Luke]

Of course Corypheus was easy to defeat at the end. In my opinion, his defeat was a foregone conclusion at that point. The last battle essentially represented the "falling action" part of the narrative.

 

The Temple of Mythal, on the other hand, was the climax of the game. The stakes were at their highest. It was entirely unclear who would arrive at the Well of Sorrows first, the Inquisition or Corypheus' forces.

 

By reaching the well first and transferring its power to a mortal vessel on our side, the Inquisition had already won. We deprived the "big bad" of acquiring an ancient and powerful (elven) artifact for the SECOND time. However, Corypheus could not accept it.

 

The final battle against him was not meant to be particularly compelling in my opinion, as it was basically a last ditch and futile effort of a very arrogant individual (Corypheus) facing a superior physical and moral force (the Inquisition). Our faith in each other was greater than Corypheus' faith in himself. Interestingly enough, "faith" was a major theme of the game according to Mike Laidlaw.

 

On a related note, I agree with my girlfriend 90s Kai that Corypheus is a decoy for something worse (the BIGGER bad). If that individual is one of the ancient elven gods, then the fact that Solas is also an ancient elven god is incredibly relevant to the narrative.

[Steelcan]

I am getting some serious

 

"HEROISM" flashbacks

[TheJediSaint]

Nothing's worse than a tight, focused ending that makes sense.  

[Lebanese Dude]

*snip*

 

Exactly.

[Steelcan]

 

The Temple of Mythal, on the other hand, was the climax of the game. The stakes were at their highest. It was entirely unclear who would arrive at the Well of Sorrows first, the Inquisition or Corypheus' forces.

I take issue with this, at no point in the game was a Corypheus victory ever portrayed as a plausible outcome, the entire story is his plans falling apart, even Haven wasn't a real victory for him, it was all one downhill slide for the guy, and at the templar of Mythal you can literally run around on light up stone paths and he still can't beat you there

[TheJediSaint]

I take issue with this, at no point in the game was a Corypheus victory ever portrayed as a plausible outcome, the entire story is his plans falling apart, even Haven wasn't a real victory for him, it was all one downhill slide for the guy, and at the templar of Mythal you can literally run around on light up stone paths and he still can't beat you there

His fault for possessing a Grey Warden who couldn't outrun the plot.

[BabyPuncher]

 You are in the most literal and thematic sense his antagonist.

I just cannot wrap my head around how you think DAI is thematically empty at the ending.

 

You know, I actually heard quite enough of every remotely friendly character kissing every footstep of the Inquisitor in the game, thanks. I don't think I need to hear any more of it from you. And of course, you mean "The Inquisitor." Because it's a character in the story. It's not "you."

 

You need to have a far better reason for the antagonist to be defeated than 'he's the opposite of the protagonist.' That's kind of a given. And I really fail to see how it matters in the slightest. Antagonists aren't beaten by sheer power of opposite-ness. In any case, you could just as easily make the same case for protagonists. 

 

[Lebanese Dude]

I take issue with this, at no point in the game was a Corypheus victory ever portrayed as a plausible outcome, the entire story is his plans falling apart, even Haven wasn't a real victory for him, it was all one downhill slide for the guy, and at the templar of Mythal you can literally run around on light up stone paths and he still can't beat you there

 

Well they could have always implemented a timer, but that's not always fun when it comes to puzzle challenges especially when they're not the main focus of the game.

 

So just chalk it up to Corypheus having to find another way in and not being able to because the place was surrounded by magical enchantment barriers and he couldn't afford arrogantly taking lethal risks again since no Wardens were present.

[90s Luke]

I take issue with this, at no point in the game was a Corypheus victory ever portrayed as a plausible outcome, the entire story is his plans falling apart, even Haven wasn't a real victory for him, it was all one downhill slide for the guy, and at the templar of Mythal you can literally run around on light up stone paths and he still can't beat you there

 

Calpernia or Samson were ahead of the Inquisitor though.

[TheJediSaint]

Well they could have always implemented a timer, but that's not always fun when it comes to puzzle challenges especially when they're not the main focus of the game.

 

So just chalk it up to Corypheus having to find another way in and not being able to because the place was surrounded by magical enchantment barriers.

My guess is that the magical whatever sealing the main door shutdown once the Well was consumed.

[BabyPuncher]

Nothing's worse than a tight, focused ending that makes sense.  

 

Nothing's worse than an ending that fails to even make an attempt to say anything meaningful about the central conflict, the fundamental core of the story.
 

[Steelcan]

Well they could have always implemented a timer, but that's not always fun when it comes to puzzle challenges especially when they're not the main focus of the game.

 

So just chalk it up to Corypheus having to find another way in and not being able to because the place was surrounded by magical enchantment barriers.

It's not that specific instance  that I have issue with, its a feeling that permeates the entire game, their is almost no sense of urgency to this whatsoever, precisely because the villain is being kneecapped over time, not the other way around.

 

One thing that ME3 did very well was showing the deteriorating state of the galaxy, more and more systems were conquered, more refugees, more desperate long shots, not that I agree with everything ME3 did, but it conveyed a sense of a "godlike" enemy far more effectively than a demigod in DA did

[Steelcan]

Calpernia or Samson were ahead of the Inquisitor though.

and they are promptly dealt with and no ill effects come of it

[TheJediSaint]

Nothing's worse than an ending that fails to even make an attempt to say anything meaningful about the central conflict, the fundamental core of the story.
 

Mass Effect 3's campaign forum is this way.

[BabyPuncher]

As I clearly said in the first post, ME 3 very obviously did make an attempt. It was god-awful and a complete failure in just about every way, but they did try something more than having Shepard pressing the magic problem-solving button and the Reapers all dying, despite how incredibly easy that would have been to write.

[Iakus]

I don't agree . Yes Me3 was bad and leave ya raging and with a bitter taste . But DAI ending was just...boring . It isn't bad like ME3 was (the ending that is) ...it just...numbing . Ya know , there was no Urgency in the last fight , there was no drama , no chasing , no feeling of that last fight took forever but was so worth it . Nothing ! 

 

Me3 may have a crappy ending (choose your favorite colored button) , but before ya get there....ya get tons of emotions . Between Reapers chasing you on the exploration map . Between landing on Planets and seeing their destructions , and lets not forget the last speech everyone in your squad make (the Holo calls) that may or may not get you teary but still filled with emotions . 

I'll take boring over bad.

 

No urgency>I lose no matter what I do.

 

IN DAI, I'm able to beat Corypheus without doing something so awful I feel like I've become the villain.  Where my Inquisitor might find death preferable, or see Thedas destroyed rather than make the choice.  The fight might not have been "urgent"  But I still call it "good enough"

[BabyPuncher]

I'll take boring over bad.

 

They're not going to ever get anywhere if they don't try. They can't settle on a 2/10 because they're afraid to gamble and risk a 1/10.

[Lebanese Dude]

It's not that specific instance  that I have issue with, its a feeling that permeates the entire game, their is almost no sense of urgency to this whatsoever, precisely because the villain is being kneecapped over time, not the other way around.

 

One thing that ME3 did very well was showing the deteriorating state of the galaxy, more and more systems were conquered, more refugees, more desperate long shots, not that I agree with everything ME3 did, but it conveyed a sense of a "godlike" enemy far more effectively than a demigod in DA did

 

Well Corypheus isn't at the same level as the Reapers though... he's nothing compared to them. 

 

He's also clearly arrogant and that gives you time. He was predictable compared to the Reapers, despite them being methodical.

 

He gave you a monologue rather than kill you at Haven. Even after you survive and get to Skyhold, Cullen (or was it Leliana?) outright tells you that someone like Corypheus will not acknowledge your victory and will continue about his way.

 

Still.. I suppose a non-linear game can convey a lack of urgency so you're not exactly wrong either. 

[Steelcan]

Well Corypheus isn't at the same level as the Reapers though... he's nothing compared to them. 

 

He's also clearly arrogant and that gives you time. Where the Reapers were methodical and predictable, so was he.

 

He gave you a monologue rather than kill you at Haven. Even after you survive and get to Skyhold, Cullen (or was it Leliana?) outright tells you that someone like Corypheus will not acknowledge your victory and will continue about his way.

He can lay claim to divinity, and not entirely unjustifiably so, he's arguably on whole other level than the Reapers who while advanced and impressive, were still mundane, Corypheus is not, but the narrative does not reflect this in any way

[TheJediSaint]

He can lay claim to divinity, and not entirely unjustifiably so, he's arguably on whole other level than the Reapers who while advanced and impressive, were still mundane, Corypheus is not, but the narrative does not reflect this in any way

I thought the narrative was clear about Corypheus.  He was a very, very powerful creature that sought more power.  That was what the player character was trying to prevent.

[Lebanese Dude]

He can lay claim to divinity, and not entirely unjustifiably so, he's arguably on whole other level than the Reapers who while advanced and impressive, were still mundane, Corypheus is not, but the narrative does not reflect this in any way

 

But he is mundane. He's a Tevinter magister called Sethius Amladaris who tried to attain godhood and got corrupted.  His faith was shattered so he tried to become a god himself to champion withered Tevinter etc..  His powers may have been amplified due to corruption or perhaps he was always this powerful but he's nothing close to a deity.

[Steelcan]

I thought the narrative was clear about Corypheus.  He was a very, very powerful creature that sought more power.  That was what the player character was trying to prevent.

which is completely brought down throughout the entire game, and I get that is most likely the message the writers wanted to send, but it still makes for an underwhelming main ending conclusion

[AresKeith]

He can lay claim to divinity, and not entirely unjustifiably so, he's arguably on whole other level than the Reapers who while advanced and impressive, were still mundane, Corypheus is not, but the narrative does not reflect this in any way

 

It's a shame too because there were times when Corypheus should have gained the upper hand on us in the story