629 réponses à ce sujet

[Kourd]

I want to know what happened to the dragon outlined cloud of demons in the sky?!  I mean that was on the FREAKING COVER!

[Lord Raijin]

Not sure if this was brought up in here but I thought I'd share it

 

Dragon Age Inquisition interview - E3 2014

 

Dragon Age Creative Director Mike Laidlaw being interviewed

 

"What Alpha means is 100% of the content is there." FALSE

"We don't declare a Beta until the game is ready to ship." FALSE

[Lewie]

 

If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, the door is that way. No need for the snark or straw men.

 

You got my sarcasm then, good.

 

Keep going with law and ethics and all the lies we have been told because we need educated it seems.

[Dreamer]

 

 

 

You got my sarcasm then, good.

 

Keep going with law and ethics and all the lies we have been told because we need educated it seems.

 

 

More straw men, then? Thank you for making it abundantly clear why you're actually involved in this discussion.

[Nimlowyn]

I wonder if I'm the only one who keeps coming back here hoping to see spam from James Leung.

[Nohvarr]

"What Alpha means is 100% of the content is there." FALSE

 

But wait....the video everyone is talking about was Pre-Alpha....so I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem?

[LinksOcarina]

That we disagree on what constitutes a breach of ethics does not make the conversation itself moot. I think this is an incredibly important discussion to have--especially because of examples like Aliens: Colonial Marines. We're dealing with an industry that is no stranger to a breach of ethics or trust.

 

EDIT - To add: You and I (and the others participating here) may be more savvy than the average consumer, but they are the reason legal protections exist, after all. I was not duped by the PAX video leak. I was duped by the keep customization videos (which were not pre-alpha material). I'm happy with Inquisition, over all, though I am extremely disappointed by BioWare's lack of community management and post-launch support for the game. My issue here is that developers have a responsibility to be open and transparent because this is an industry currently driven by pre-purchases.

 

Except the developers have no obligation to be open about anything. In fact, the developers only obligation is to deliver a good product to their consumers, and have little to do with pre-purchases, thats all marketing and the publishers. We "expect" developers to do that though, and it's why folks worhsip the ground some companies walk because they are open about everything, despite the products themselves sometimes being very sub-par. 

 

Issues with the product in the end is why we keep giving feedback, although I am a bit dubious of some feedback sometimes because i'm convinced at this point a majority of the consumers really don't know what they want until they play it, or until opinion leaders say something about it. That said, what we say and do is not always a necessary aspect of game development. 

 

For example, the Tides of Numenara game from Kickstarter a long time ago had a vote on what type of mechanic it would use, turn-based or real time. Turn based won in like a 51% vote that backers had or something like that, it was really close, and people were upset about that because it didn't match what they wanted. I didn't buy into that kickstarter,but I do know some folks who were pissed about that and were contemplating cancelling their order, even though I think they are stuck with it in the end. 

 

So consumer interaction is not going to please everyone in the end. Ive seen people here who are happy about Inquisition, who are mad about it, who are basically grinding axes just because, or who don't care. And that is just us, the people crazy enough to be talking on a forum at 10 PM at night on a Tuesday. Imagine the folks who don't go online. I sometimes wonder what they think, the people i'm playing with in the multiplayer mode, or that I see at conventions or Gamestop buying something for their kid or themselves. 

 

I don't know...I feel like our energy here can be better served elsewhere. Take that for what you will, I guess.

[Lewie]

More straw men, then? Thank you for making it abundantly clear why you're actually involved in this discussion.

I say what I think and I am honest, take it however you want. I won't however, spend any more time on this, I don't need to.

 

Knock yourself out.

[wolfhowwl]

 

Be advised that this topic is under special surveillance and it can be locked at any time.

 

Don't be intimidated by mod tyranny.

 

For the sake of future generations of posters resist our jack booted oppressors.

[Farangbaa]

"What Alpha means is 100% of the content is there." FALSE

Except that video was pre-alpha.

Is it realiy that hard to understand what pre or before means?

[Steelcan]

I see this is the newest step in mod disengagement on the forum, not even bothering to say "steer it back on topic" just a

 

[Morty Smith]

DA:I has won a gazillion and two Goatee-Awards.

 

Your opinion is invalid.

[sjsharp2011]

Ha! This is NOTHING compared to the changes that Bioshock Infinite went through on its way to release.
 
Just take a look at the demo released in 2010:
 

 
A lot of the elements from the video made it into the actual game, but there is no actual sequence like that in all of Infinite.
 
And then there was the demo from 2011:
 

 
Again, a lot of that stuff is in the game, but again, there is no exact sequence like that. No euthanizing a horse, no saving a mailman from a mob. And I so wanted to see Elizabeth wearing an oversized Lincoln mask.
 
But y'know, I still enjoyed the end product. That's what ultimately matters.

Exactly and that's what I look at in a game if the final product is good aenough then I'll get it. I know that not all the elements they show us in promotion will be there or it's extremely likely they won't anyway. What you should look at is whether you like the sound of what they've got in mind with the gsme they're creating and decide whether it's a game that would interest you not whether what you see in Alpha mode is still there in the final product. if it's a type of game that interests you then buy it if not then stay away. It's as simple as that as far as I'm concerned.

[pdusen]

What this means, however, is that BioWare was using footage of a game that did not exist to hype journos to generate buzz. Fantastic ethics.

Ethics? Really? Are you serious? Is this the real life?

Pre-alpha has exactly one meaning and one meaning only. That meaning is "THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW, BUT RELEASE IS A LONG WAY AWAY AND MAY NOT LOOK LIKE THIS AT ALL, SO DEFINITELY DO NOT USE THIS AS THE BASIS FOR YOUR PURCHASING DECISIONS."

That is the only and entire meaning as understood by all members of the human race on the planet Earth. If you can't wrap your head around that, you are either some sort of slimey green goo man from Alpha Centauri, in which case why do you even care about our terrestrial video games, or you are the trolliest troll that ever came from troll university to live under our bridge and start a troll family, with an ugly troll wife, two snotty troll kids and a little troll dog.

You have managed to damage my composure with the utter nonsense that you just tried to spread in this thread as if it was based on anything even remotely resembling a logical foundation. I need to go bash my head against something repeatedly so that I can forget all about it before my cognitive faculties suffer any further.

[AlanC9]

 
EDIT - To add: You and I (and the others participating here) may be more savvy than the average consumer, but they are the reason legal protections exist, after all. I was not duped by the PAX video leak. I was duped by the keep customization videos (which were not pre-alpha material). I'm happy with Inquisition, over all, though I am extremely disappointed by BioWare's lack of community management and post-launch support for the game. My issue here is that developers have a responsibility to be open and transparent because this is an industry currently driven by pre-purchases.

Would an "average consumer"look at leaked prerelease videos? I agree that there is a subset of the community that's both really enthusiastic and fairly clueless. I'm not sure there are that many of them

[Farangbaa]

Would an "average consumer"look at leaked prerelease videos?

Hell no.

Besides, I consider myself a fairly 'hardcore gamer' (though I really dislike the term gamer... but that's food for another topic), and I rarely, if ever, get into the whole pre-release hype build up thing. ME4 will be the first game probably that I'll follow from pre-alpha stage to release.

I pre ordered DA:I like 2 weeks or something before release, because I heard people talking about the Keep. Checked it out, looked awesome (and I didn't have to play DA2 ). And then I looked up gameplay vids, of which there were quite a lot at that stage, and decided to buy it.

Looking at gameplay vids is the only thing people should do btw... in my not so humble opinion. Trailers, adds, (pre)alpha footage, beta footage and the like tell you nothing of what you're finally going to get.

(the gameplay vids are also the reason I'm completely baffled by all the hatred for the tac cam, it was very clearly visible what it was going to be like)

[sleasye74]

So if i start working on a car for someone invite them over halfway through and they love it then tell them some or all things are subject to change

Would you accept this?

And do you think more people would accept this than not?

 

 

I just asked this question to some friends of mine that are car buffs and they answered with a laugh and said NO

[Lewie]

[Farangbaa]

So if i start working on a car for someone invite them over halfway through and they love it then tell them some or all things are subject to change
Would you accept this?
And do you think more people would accept this than not?
 
 
I just asked this question to some friends of mine that are car buffs and they answered with a laugh and said NO

Of course not. Difference here is, with the car, that you are paying them to make something you want, on your order.

That's completely opposite to buying a game, where they make something because they want to make it, and it's your own decision whether to buy it or not.

In other words: the game will be made regardless of whether you (intend to) buy it or not. The car won't be fixed unless you tell the guy to do so.

[AllThatJazz]

So if i start working on a car for someone invite them over halfway through and they love it then tell them some or all things are subject to change
Would you accept this?
And do you think more people would accept this than not?


I just asked this question to some friends of mine that are car buffs and they answered with a laugh and said NO

Do car companies release pre-alpha versions of the cars they are making? No, they don't. And I'd wager that early prototypes of car (essentially pre alpha) have features that end up being stripped/pared back because of time or budget or because that particular feature can't be engineered to work well enough. We just don't hear about this stuff because car design and manufacture is a more closed off process than game development. It's not a great analogy tbh.

Seriously not sure what people aren't getting about 'pre alpha', which is a state of content not being locked down and therefore subject to change. It seems many here won't be happy until video game developers don't show off their work in progress at all, which I think would be a tremendous shame, I love learning about this stuff.

I get that people are gutted that the Crestwood mission was cut. Hell, I still think it's a shame that the human commoner origin and personal nemesis ideas got shelved in Origins. But calling the devs 'liars' or 'unethical' because a natural part of game development happened, is neither necessary nor accurate. It's just mean.

[Jawzzus]

So if i start working on a car for someone invite them over halfway through and they love it then tell them some or all things are subject to change

Would you accept this?

And do you think more people would accept this than not?

 

 

I just asked this question to some friends of mine that are car buffs and they answered with a laugh and said NO

 

 

Your analogy would work better if it was:

 

Say I'm building this car, and I put out a video showing the things I've done so far on it.  Then I run out of time to make some of the things to work, or they just don't work with the other parts of the car that need put together, so I take them out of the final product.

 

Would people accept this or not?

[sleasye74]

@allthatjazz

Did you miss the part where i was not companies working on the car? Big difference

 

@psychevore

You missed the point like others here

If we allow video game companies to use pre alpha or beta as an excuse it will affect you at some point and when it does i wanna be there not gloat or bash you but to support you

I hope you find something you really love in a ME4 pre alpha when that time comes and they take it out of the game when it comes out

i will be here as a shoulder to cry on, if you think it will never happen to you then i have to ask you if you truly love the product