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[Farangbaa]

The title of the thread is the first thing I said after exiting the womb.
 
My expectations have been reasonable ever since.

Best post ever.

Haha.

[ThreeF]

For much of my gaming life, game advertising has been cinematics that were 'not actual gameplay'

This is why I never watch advertisement or follow the per-release hipe. Only actual gameplay video can give you an idea about the game feel and thankfully there are plenty of those for DAI. So as far as myself being a customer,  EA just wastes its money.

 

I stumbled on a DAI character promo today and while I recognize the places it has nothing to do with the game (and Cassandra doesn't even look like herself) so if you go just by these type of promotional videos I can see how you will have completely different expectations. Is the fact that this still happens a good thing? Not really, with this gen graphics it's not even necessary anymore. Thing is this sort of thing can be practically called gaming industry tradition and nobody should base their expectations on it. In fact if more people ignored/were skeptical of what they see the marketing tactics would be forced to change by default.

 

 

 

Dragon Age has evolved over its three games, there are many differences between the three instalments.

 

 

DA practically reinvents itself every single installment, which has drawbacks that go beyond dissatisfaction of a group with very specific expectations, the only consistent thing in DA is its ability to have interesting characters, it's the only thing that shows steady progress. This is why I hope that DAI serve as template to be build on and is not scrapped yet again. Never mind that reinventing the wheel every single time is costly.

[pawswithclaws]

...

 

Though if you're looking for a disappointing game, I would suggest DAI pales against other 2014 candidates:

Aaaaaw, I really enjoyed Murdered: Soul Suspect! I even bought a PS4 for it! XD Granted, I'd barely even heard anything about the game half a year or so before launch... Maybe that helped!

 

And the Sims games never truly become any interesting before they've launched a crapton of expansions. It was the same with Sims 3. For whatever that's worth.

[Sanunes]

Spoiler

For much of my gaming life, game advertising has been cinematics that were 'not actual gameplay'

(and much of that time was from before the days when that disclaimer was even listed).

 

For a game with 

• a solid accurate 30 minute gameplay demo in the Hinterlands/Redcliffe Castle - (excluding the Leliana tease for plot reasons)
• trailers using the actual gameplay engine
• early review copies sent to reviewers so they could play the game
• a generous pre-launch review embargo drop.

I think there are trivial grounds for complaint.

 

The only remaining issue is whether the game was technically fit for purpose.

 

I really do feel for those whose experience is severely sub-optimal (particularly on PC and last gen)

but I remain of the view from all I have seen that those experiences are in the minority

and that each successive patch addresses large sections of those remaining dissatisfied.

 

If there are players after that remaining dissatisfied about combat mechanics or graphical fidelity

on last gen, than that hardly seems a matter of marketing let alone one of misrepresentation.

 

Which brings me to disappointment.

 

Dragon Age has evolved over its three games, there are many differences between the three instalments.

 

Whilst very many people were perfectly happy, if not delighted (I'm one of those) I can understand that some

(particularly the most invested with specific RPG expectations) may have started a journey that changed disappointingly for them,

and then it is tempting to look for the fault in marketing that led them to be disappointed.

 

Though if you're looking for a disappointing game, I would suggest DAI pales against other 2014 candidates:

 

 

For some reason there were a multitude of driver issues with some graphic cards with the PC release, now I really don't know who to blame if it would be BioWare or the graphic card developers for if BioWare was able to get the game to work with all the cards they were given to me the blame then goes to the hardware, but if BioWare didn't ask for what they needed to properly test the game its their fault.  Now I was tempted to return my copy of the game when I had those issues, but my brother swapped video cards with me (the exact same card, but a different company produced it) and it worked fine then.

[Hazegurl]

Though if you're looking for a disappointing game, I would suggest DAI pales against other 2014 candidates:

 

snip

DAI won Game of the Year for a reason. 2014 was a sad year.

[LinksOcarina]

DAI won Game of the Year for a reason. 2014 was a sad year.

 

And thats a bullshit statement.

 

I guess people easily forget Bayonetta 2, Super Smash Bros. Mario Kart 8, The Evil Within, Shadows of Mordor, Transistor, Child of Light, Valiant Hearts...

[Giantdeathrobot]

It's an assumption for which neither of us can be certain.

 

Why not? False advertisement, the contention of the OP, is a legal issue.

 

Being duped into spending $60-70? We have different definitions for what constitutes being "hurt" apparently.

 

This ''false advertising happens'' every single day in the art industry.

 

Trailer scenes missing from the final cut of a movie? Authors lying about their story to avoid spoilers? Singers not putting X song in their album after all, or remixing the audio so it sounds different from the samples? All day, every day you see this and more. Bioware axing a feature nobody knew much about is very minor compared to this. And very few (if any) false advertising cases were sucessfull based on stuff like that, because no judge will waste time on that.

[Hazegurl]

And thats a bullshit statement.

 

I guess people easily forget Bayonetta 2, Super Smash Bros. Mario Kart 8, The Evil Within, Shadows of Mordor, Transistor, Child of Light, Valiant Hearts...

Too bad. A few good and okay games doesn't change anything.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

And thats a bullshit statement.

 

I guess people easily forget Bayonetta 2, Super Smash Bros. Mario Kart 8, The Evil Within, Shadows of Mordor, Transistor, Child of Light, Valiant Hearts...

Bayo 2 should have been Game of the Year

[wolfhowwl]

Wii U.

Relevant.

 

Choose one and only one.

[AlanC9]

Too bad. A few good and okay games doesn't change anything.

What would change things? How was 2014 worse than, say, 2011?

I don't mean to oppose saying that 2014 was a bad year. I'm in no position to judge. I feel about most games the way I feel about Top 40 radio.

[Dio Demon]

Wii U.

Relevant.

 

Choose one and only one.

Yeah Nintendo kinda screwed up with the Wii U. Ahh well, next gen is going to have that smash hit console for them.

[AlanC9]

And thats a bullshit statement.
 
I guess people easily forget Bayonetta 2, Super Smash Bros. Mario Kart 8, The Evil Within, Shadows of Mordor, Transistor, Child of Light, Valiant Hearts...

I'd have probably given you a like anyway, but mentioning Valiant Hearts makes it mandatory.

[Hazegurl]

What would change things? How was 2014 worse than, say, 2011?

I'm in no position to judge. I feel about most games the way I feel about Top 40 radio.

Idk, releasing games that appeal to me and make the games that appeal to me actually work and not a total waste of my money and time.

 

For the record,  I find the argument of "X game is great because in general a lot of people liked it." as ridiculous as saying "X game sucks because in general a lot of people hate it".   So if you think the games released were great then I'm in no position to argue back without telling you that your tastes suck and then you can fire back that mine suck, and then we'll both suck....that's a lot of sucking.

 

Anyway, 2014 is done and I'm looking forward to future releases.

[Sasie]

It's almost unbelievable that fans of the RPG genre can call 2014 a sad year when it pretty much revived the entire genre after years of stagnation. For once we had a year when good games would come out from other studios then Bioware or Bethseda.

We had the Banner Saga, Shadowrun Dragonfall, Lords of Xulima, Divinity Original Sin, Might and Magic X - Legacy,  Legend of Grimrock 2, Dark Souls 2, Wasteland 2, South Park: The Stick of Truth, several JRPGs coming to PC for those who like that sort of thing including Final Fantasy XIII, Trails in the Sky and Valkyria Chronicles. After all these at the top of my head I still probably missed a few. 2014 was the best year for gaming we had in years.

I think the reason Dragon Age won game of the year awards has more to do with some sites simply giving them the reward by default rather then actually looking for other options.

[Farangbaa]

It's almost unbelievable that fans of the RPG genre can call 2014 a sad year when it pretty much revived the entire genre after years of stagnation. For once we had a year when good games would come out from other studios then Bioware or Bethseda.

We had the Banner Saga, Shadowrun Dragonfall, Lords of Xulima, Divinity Original Sin, Might and Magic X - Legacy,  Legend of Grimrock 2, Dark Souls 2, Wasteland 2, South Park: The Stick of Truth, several JRPGs coming to PC for those who like that sort of thing including Final Fantasy XIII, Trails in the Sky and Valkyria Chronicles. After all these at the top of my head I still probably missed a few. 2014 was the best year for gaming we had in years.

I think the reason Dragon Age won game of the year awards has more to do with some sites simply giving them the reward by default rather then actually looking for other options.

You get a like just for mentioning Valkyria Chronicles

[Dreamer]

This ''false advertising happens'' every single day in the art industry.

 

Trailer scenes missing from the final cut of a movie? Authors lying about their story to avoid spoilers? Singers not putting X song in their album after all, or remixing the audio so it sounds different from the samples? All day, every day you see this and more. Bioware axing a feature nobody knew much about is very minor compared to this. And very few (if any) false advertising cases were sucessfull based on stuff like that, because no judge will waste time on that.

 

"It happens a lot so we must accept it" is not a valid argument.

 

Nor are the examples you provided sufficiently relevant (with perhaps the exception of authors lying about plot details). Almost everyone knew about keep and Skyhold customization; they were advertised more than once and in post-alpha material. Maybe it wouldn't hold up in court (commercial enterprises get away with a lot), but that's the point of a formal investigation.

 

This kind of thing comes up all the time with Kickstarter and crowd-funding initiatives, and in several cases it was determined that backers and investors were entitled to returns. With Inquisition we have an example where customers had paid for a finished product (not invested in its development) based on actual advertising materials of which some turned out to be false.

[SofaJockey]

... With Inquisition we have an example where customers had paid for a finished product (not invested in its development) based on actual advertising materials of which some turned out to be false.

 

'Some' within the context of the gameplay demos, the youtube videos and the trailers, 

probably constitutes a fraction of 1%.

 

The technical point may be allowed, but in terms of practicality and reasonableness,

the OPs point was trivial and irrational hyperbole.

[Giantdeathrobot]

"It happens a lot so we must accept it" is not a valid argument.

 

Nor are the examples you provided sufficiently relevant (with perhaps the exception of authors lying about plot details). Almost everyone knew about keep and Skyhold customization; they were advertised more than once and in post-alpha material. Maybe it wouldn't hold up in court (commercial enterprises get away with a lot), but that's the point of a formal investigation.

 

This kind of thing comes up all the time with Kickstarter and crowd-funding initiatives, and in several cases it was determined that backers and investors were entitled to returns. With Inquisition we have an example where customers had paid for a finished product (not invested in its development) based on actual advertising materials of which some turned out to be false.

 

You brought up how, legally, it's false advertising. I pointed out that the actual judges comprising the actual legal system don't think of it that way because the practice is widely accepted, setting tons of precedents. ''It happens a lot so we must accept it'' is actually a thing in legislation. I did not say you had to like it, but I ask people to be realistic. Bioware's ''false advertising'' comprises of one feature they axed (since Skyhold customisation is still there). That's not even a drop in the bucket. Everyone tells bigger lies than that every day.

 

Compared to actual false advertising cases, like Aliens Colonial marines which had a demo that is completely unrepresentative of the actual game, entire gameplay concepts axed, graphics that look far better in promotional material and so forth, Bioware's case is peanuts. Good luck getting any formal inquiries going on such a shaky ground.

 

It's funny you mention Kickstarter, because they get away with a lot worse. How many horror stories do you hear of games coming out with more than half their features axed so what remains is a broken shell? Coming out in two parts with massive delays and need for yet more money like Broken Age? Kickstarted games that don't even come out because the devs ran away with the cash or threw a hissy fit (Fez 2)? And let's even get into the Early Access games on Steam which do that and worse, with games being left in a perpetual beta after suckers threw their money at it. In my mind that's incredibly worse, and it's why they were entitled to returns. 

 

The only thing you're encouraging here is for devs to remain absolutely tight-lipped about everything in the game until it goes gold. because let's be freaking frank here, no one bought Inquisition based solely on keep customisation, a feature we knew next to nothing about.

[Dreamer]

You brought up how, legally, it's false advertising. I pointed out that the actual judges comprising the actual legal system don't think of it that way because the practice is widely accepted, setting tons of precedents. ''It happens a lot so we must accept it'' is actually a thing in legislation. I did not say you had to like it, but I ask people to be realistic. Bioware's ''false advertising'' comprises of one feature they axed (since Skyhold customisation is still there). That's not even a drop in the bucket. Everyone tells bigger lies than that every day.

 

Compared to actual false advertising cases, like Aliens Colonial marines which had a demo that is completely unrepresentative of the actual game, entire gameplay concepts axed, graphics that look far better in promotional material and so forth, Bioware's case is peanuts. Good luck getting any formal inquiries going on such a shaky ground.

 

It's funny you mention Kickstarter, because they get away with a lot worse. How many horror stories do you hear of games coming out with more than half their features axed so what remains is a broken shell? Coming out in two parts with massive delays and need for yet more money like Broken Age? Kickstarted games that don't even come out because the devs ran away with the cash or threw a hissy fit (Fez 2)? And let's even get into the Early Access games on Steam which do that and worse, with games being left in a perpetual beta after suckers threw their money at it. In my mind that's incredibly worse, and it's why they were entitled to returns. 

 

The only thing you're encouraging here is for devs to remain absolutely tight-lipped about everything in the game until it goes gold. because let's be freaking frank here, no one bought Inquisition based solely on keep customisation, a feature we knew next to nothing about.

 

Judges? I'm talking about an FTC inquiry. Consumers wouldn't have to have bought Inquisition based solely on keep customization for it to have been false advertising. And yes, I'm encouraging the developers to be quiet about features they can't deliver. It's the responsible thing to do.

[Nohvarr]

Judges? I'm talking about an FTC inquiry. Consumers wouldn't have to have bought Inquisition based solely on keep customization for it to have been false advertising. And yes, I'm encouraging the developers to be quiet about features they can't deliver. It's the responsible thing to do.

I want you to remember your words, during the run up to the next game when people are begging for information on the status of the project and hear only silence, or learn only fluff.

[Elhanan]

Yes; what is needed here is another case where bureaucracy, small print, legalese, and rules lawyers are prioritized over some common sense from the consumer....
 

[SofaJockey]

Judges? I'm talking about an FTC inquiry. Consumers wouldn't have to have bought Inquisition based solely on keep customization for it to have been false advertising. And yes, I'm encouraging the developers to be quiet about features they can't deliver. It's the responsible thing to do.

 

Then all BioWare need to do pre-alpha is to preface their conceptual work

with a very clear disclaimer before and after.

 

(and who knows, after threads like this, maybe they will do just that...)

 

I for one would be interested in hearing about (low-spoiler) concepts in-project and I suspect many share that view.

[Dreamer]

Yes; what is needed here is another case where bureaucracy, small print, legalese, and rules lawyers are prioritized over some common sense from the consumer....
 

 

Those things exist because you can't count on consumers having common sense. Just saying.

 

I want you to remember your words, during the run up to the next game when people are begging for information on the status of the project and hear only silence, or learn only fluff.

 

I'll remember. And I'll remember that time you virtually admitted that developers rely on over-promising in order to turn sales.

 

Then all BioWare need to do pre-alpha is to preface their conceptual work

with a very clear disclaimer before and after.

 

(and who knows, after threads like this, maybe they will do just that...)

 

I for one would be interested in hearing about (low-spoiler) concepts in-project and I suspect many share that view.

 

They do this, but we're specifically talking about post-alpha advertising with regard to keep customization. There was nothing conceptual about it.

[Elhanan]

The Govt should not have to create legislation to protect citizens from their own foolish behavior. While it does occur, this is not a mandate. Prefer common sense over red-tape, pencil-pushers, and rules lawyers.