629 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreamer]

The Govt should not have to create legislation to protect citizens from their own foolish behavior. While it does occur, this is not a mandate. Prefer common sense over red-tape, pencil-pushers, and rules lawyers.

 

You'll get no argument from me on that point. I agree wholeheartedly, but because people are stupid (generally), we (the people) require certain protections: McDonald's hot coffee. Remember that one? Or why plastic bags have warnings like "may cause suffocation." Do we really need to be reminded? The answer, sadly, is "yes."

[LinksOcarina]

Too bad. A few good and okay games doesn't change anything.

 

Too bad? Just makes you look ill informed in the end. Not to mention not worth talking too since you are wrong on your assertions.

[Errationatus]

One thing folks need to learn is to never, ever confuse marketing with anything remotely approaching the truth. 

 

Misrepresentation in advertising is not only the norm it's taken as a given.  That's what all that fine print no one ever reads is for.  That's why there isn't a single software company on Earth that takes responsibility for its product, why EULA's are full of "using our product is at your own risk.  If it destroys your life, it's your fault for being stupid enough to trust us in the first place".  Critical thinking and healthy skepticism are hallmarks to be encouraged before one buys anything. 

 

"Pre-Alpha footage" - even that huge section of gameplay they flogged way back when about spec-ing out your keeps can be spun into what basically amounts to their version of fine-print. They can legally say "well, we don't care what you saw or how cool it was - what you got still resembles it sorta, so we didn't technically lie.  We never said this was how it was going to be, even if everyone asked at the time said exactly that. At the time we meant it. You were under no obligation to believe us and if you did, well, that's your own fault. Things change.Sucks to be you, we don't actually owe you anything and aren't responsible for what you think we said, even if we did say exactly what you thought you heard." 

 

You can't really do this in any other industry other than software and get away with it as much as they do.  They write the rules to suit them, they always have, because they're in a 'position of necessity' - the world doesn't run right without their product, so if we want it, we have to suck on it. Just the way it is.

 

Of course, in the 80's the entire gaming industry collapsed over this rather short-sighted and disdainfully arrogant attitude.  "Too big to fail", y'see...

[Elhanan]

You'll get no argument from me on that point. I agree wholeheartedly, but because people are stupid (generally), we (the people) require certain protections: McDonald's hot coffee. Remember that one? Or why plastic bags have warnings like "may cause suffocation." Do we really need to be reminded? The answer, sadly, is "yes."

Neither of those is exactly a great example of common sense errors, but I concede that these are the sorts of exceptions that leap to mind when I stated it does occur. For myself, it is 'do not wash electrical appliances, esp when still plugged in to the wall' type of nonsense.

[AlanC9]

"Pre-Alpha footage" - even that huge section of gameplay they flogged way back when about spec-ing out your keeps can be spun into what basically amounts to their version of fine-print. They can legally say "well, we don't care what you saw or how cool it was - what you got still resembles it sorta, so we didn't technically lie.  We never said this was how it was going to be, even if everyone asked at the time said exactly that.
 

They said that? I thought the definition of a pre-alpha was that it isn't necessarily how it's going to be.

[Errationatus]

They said that? I thought the definition of a pre-alpha was that it isn't necessarily how it's going to be.

I'm paraphrasing, of course, but it was most definitely flogged as "this is what you can expect, this is how awesome it'll be." It could be considered deceptive, especially if there was foreknowledge that it was all a shovel-full of shite.  Granted, that will never be admitted to, so it's kinda moot. That does not, however, conclude that the people busting their talented behinds to build this thing were liars or even in on the slather of shite-talk.  They have no control over how thickly the marketing slingers cover their hard work in crap.

 

Marketing is cancer in any industry.  What EA did with DA:I has been along the lines of changing the packaging over actually altering the product.  Whenever you see "new and improved" on a box, it actually means what is says - in reference to the box.  That's how they can look you in the face and say "we didn't lie... (about the box)". They're careful that way. Nothing on the box along those lines ever references anything specific. That's the trick. "Pre-alpha" is the same as "new and improved."

 

When your integrity has been demolished as thoroughly as EA's and your so-called 'word' is patently worthless, it ceases to matter.  Even when they finally tell the unvarnished truth - which is still pending - it's far too late.  The wolves still eat them and the townsfolk no longer care.

 

Who knows - maybe that pre-alpha stuff had been intended all along, but it's doubtful. It's more the flashy concept car at the show. They are careful not to discourage anyone's excitement over it's shininess, as that misplaced enthusiasm does 2/3rds of the marketing for them. In EA's case, they have BSN and the local thought police to keep things from any actual escalation. It's all they've got at this point.

[Nohvarr]

I'll remember. And I'll remember that time you virtually admitted that developers rely on over-promising in order to turn sales.

Nice try, but that's not what Is said. Pre-alpha is not a promise, it's an example of the games current state with an acknowledgment that things change. Bioware spent the majority of the run up to DA:I deliberately not talking about various features until they were in a state ready to be shown. Those actions (Twitch streams and youtube videos) made it clear what they were offering, or at the very least should've been clear to a reasonable customer. If after all those live streams, youtube plays (etc) you still came to the conclusion that some of the pre-alpha stuff was still in the game....that's on you.

 

One other thing....did you ask the devs about the pre-alpha stuff in the months leading up to the games release? I pose this question because a number of people asked about dual wielding warriors and eventually got an answer (Answered on Twitter and then re posted in the forums I think). So I have to ask, if you had any questions about the feature, why didn't you ask about it here before hand?

[Jackie Boy]

Pre-alpha or not, can't blame people for being disappointed. Inquisition is a great game, but seeing the features that were left out in the final release, particularly considering the overall choices & their ensuing impact on the story, does leave a sour taste in one's mouth. Still, it's not like what we got came as a big suprise (at least if you were willing to inform yourself).

[Melca36]

Cassandra originally had white hair in early alpha footage in DA2 and people raised a stink about it when they changed it

 

 

 

And LOOK at this Dragon Age 2 trailer...........

 

 

Did you see any of this footage in Dragon Age 2.  You didn't. This was all alpha footage in the game.

 

 

 

[Dreamer]

EDIT - Not worth it. I'm tried of the back and forth. I've said what I believe and I stand by it.

[The Jackal]

Everytime I start to post here. I read the bright red bold letters.

 

Topic Under Special Surveillance

 

What exactly is so special about it. Fact if they disagree. They can close it anytime and this is the warning.

[Adynata]

Many products change after a stage of development called USER TESTING. A product can have several iterations before it is ready for the market. Making those iterations available for user testing should not be considered "marketing."

[SofaJockey]

EDIT - Not worth it. I'm tried of the back and forth. I've said what I believe and I stand by it.

 

Standing by what you believe is a good thing, that's to be respected.

This topic has certainly had a good airing 

[The Jackal]

Am I only one felt we didn't make any real choices inside the game that had an impact. TT games did the exact same thing. They say you control the fate and events. Which you don't. There's a script you're just along for the ride. Maybe next time they focus more on the storyline and less on combat.

[fizzypop]

Still take a good look at Inquisitor on this picture:

Do you see damn medium long hair that looks pretty much like upper pic? Proof that Inquisitor actually had hair but in end BW replaced it with 7 shaved f***ing bald ones!

 

By the way what the hell happened to this armor? Where is it?

God I want that armor. Why do we have such limited amount of armor?! it is awful.

[fizzypop]

Welcome to the marketing style of every industry ever in the history of the Human race.

 

My advice is to not pre-order games so that you can see reviews before buying it.

Actually no it isn't. Not all industries do this and it isn't something that was happening all through out history especially since consumerism is actually relatively new. So can we stop with this excuse? This excuse is a bad one. We shouldn't be accepting ****** poor products because everyone else is doing it. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. NO. Also waiting to buy games until release doesn't help since even reviews are bought. How about they just start actually advertising what they have? That's what I want. Remember if you keep accepting it as the way things are nothing changes...this is what is wrong with our world.

[Melca36]

God I want that armor. Why do we have such limited amount of armor?! it is awful.

Um I have the armor and helmet.  

[fizzypop]

What I  don't understand is why people stick around if they genuinely feel so ripped off/let down. If the game is without merit why are you here? This is a genuine question btw, not just me being salty.

Because maybe they want things to be different/change? I mean I can't think of do many times that things changed when you didn't talk about it. Being vocal is kind of the job of someone who is dissatisfied. They don't hear your dissatisfaction if you never voice it. You know squeaky wheel gets the grease type of idea. For me it isn't just this game, it is the entire industry that needs to hear it. I'm sick of lazy developers. AAA industry has ruined gaming. In general I like to tell something or someone just how much I hate them.

[fizzypop]

Um I have the armor and helmet.  

Where did you get that armor? Also pics please! I want to see what it looks like fully. It looks sexy up top.

[Nohvarr]

Am I only one felt we didn't make any real choices inside the game that had an impact. TT games did the exact same thing. They say you control the fate and events. Which you don't. There's a script you're just along for the ride. Maybe next time they focus more on the storyline and less on combat.

Funny, I was just reading a thread talking about the choices you have to make in game, that aren't marked the determine who the next Divine will be...

[zahra]

"Topic under special surveillance"

 

IS THAT YOU NSA

 

 

Anyway, I understand why people would feel upset. I was/am too. Lets hope at some point we will be able to play this version of the game. Let it come in a patch or something. I believe there was a dev post saying that they couldn't deliver everything they wanted to deliver, and that they hope to give it to us in the coming months. Lets hope this is what they meant.

[pdusen]

Because maybe they want things to be different/change? I mean I can't think of do many times that things changed when you didn't talk about it. Being vocal is kind of the job of someone who is dissatisfied. They don't hear your dissatisfaction if you never voice it. You know squeaky wheel gets the grease type of idea. For me it isn't just this game, it is the entire industry that needs to hear it. I'm sick of lazy developers. AAA industry has ruined gaming. In general I like to tell something or someone just how much I hate them.

 

Not everything that bugs you is some world-shattering injustice just because it bugs you.

[Gold Dragon]

[snip]. How about they just start actually advertising what they have? That's what I want.

 

And what you got.  Remember the bunch of people bioware shipped in at the end just before release?

[Melca36]

Where did you get that armor? Also pics please! I want to see what it looks like fully. It looks sexy up top.

It was a schematic drop though its a bit different to the pic but they're pretty close. I will dig into my save games and get a screenie

[FFZero]

So let me get this straight, you're accusing the dev's of false advertisement based on a video of a pre-alpha build? Pre-alpha being the stage of development where nothing is finalized, game mechanics are still being iterated on and pretty much everything is in a state of flux....wow...just wow