James Leung @jobias
Gonna bookmark this BSN thread and spam it whenever anyone says we don't say enough about our in-progress projects. http://forum.bioware...s-sold/page-1 …
James Leung @jobias
I was in that theatre in-person. Everything was super clearly labelled as pre-alpha, and no video was ever officially released either.
James Leung @jobias
I'm not sure what else one could reasonably do in that situation.
I think James puts very nicely what many have fruitlessly been trying to explain.
BioWare was absolutely cognizant of the fact that the video leaked at PAX was generating hype for their game (evidenced by open conversations between fans here and elsewhere), and maybe at the time the team fully anticipated all of those features would find their way into the live game. As we now know, those features did not make it into the game at launch, and this is something BioWare would have had to know at some point in development. So? Well, that means BioWare intentionally withheld that knowledge--that those features would slip from the launch candidate--and allowed the hype generated by the video to fuel pre-orders.
Maybe James wasn't a part of the decision-making process. But if he was, then he's either willfully ignorant at worst or intellectually dishonest at best.
I expect better of companies like BioWare, who have used the goodwill generated by their reputation and jazzy demos to lure consumers into making purchases for which they couldn't possibly be informed. I also expect better for my $70.
BioWare was absolutely cognizant of the fact that the video leaked at PAX was generating hype for their game (evidenced by open conversations between fans here and elsewhere), and maybe at the time the team fully anticipated all of those features would find their way into the live game. As we now know, those features did not make it into the game at launch, and this is something BioWare would have had to know at some point in development. So? Well, that means BioWare intentionally withheld that knowledge--that those features would slip from the launch candidate--and allowed the hype generated by the video to fuel pre-orders.
Maybe James wasn't a part of the decision-making process. But if he was, then he's either willfully ignorant at worst or intellectually dishonest at best.
I expect better of companies like BioWare, who have used the goodwill generated by their reputation and jazzy demos to lure consumers into making purchases for which they couldn't possibly be informed. I also expect better for my $70.
BioWare was absolutely cognizant of the fact that the video leaked at PAX was generating hype for their game (evidenced by open conversations between fans here and elsewhere), and maybe at the time the team fully anticipated all of those features would find their way into the live game. As we now know, those features did not make it into the game at launch, and this is something BioWare would have had to know at some point in development. So? Well, that means BioWare intentionally withheld that knowledge--that those features would slip from the launch candidate--and allowed the hype generated by the video to fuel pre-orders.
Maybe James wasn't a part of the decision-making process. But if he was, then he's either willfully ignorant at worst or intellectually dishonest at best.
I expect better of companies like BioWare, who have used the goodwill generated by their reputation and jazzy demos to lure consumers into making purchases for which they couldn't possibly be informed. I also expect better for my $70.
Why on earth do you think it was labelled Pre-Alpha? Catchy title?
A title that no-one understands apparently.
Why on earth do you think it was labelled Pre-Alpha? Catchy title?
A title that no-one understands apparently.
Why? It's a cover in case something doesn't make it, but the expectation they're setting up by showing the footage at all is that what is shown is demonstrative of the game being sold.
BioWare was absolutely cognizant of the fact that the video leaked at PAX was generating hype for their game (evidenced by open conversations between fans here and elsewhere), and maybe at the time the team fully anticipated all of those features would find their way into the live game. As we now know, those features did not make it into the game at launch, and this is something BioWare would have had to know at some point in development. So? Well, that means BioWare intentionally withheld that knowledge--that those features would slip from the launch candidate--and allowed the hype generated by the video to fuel pre-orders.
Maybe James wasn't a part of the decision-making process. But if he was, then he's either willfully ignorant at worst or intellectually dishonest at best.
I expect better of companies like BioWare, who have used the goodwill generated by their reputation and jazzy demos to lure consumers into making purchases for which they couldn't possibly be informed. I also expect better for my $70.
It was labeled as "pre-alpha" that should be enough to know things might change, I don't go to the Detroit Auto Show and call the automakers deceptive because what they have for "concept" vehicles isn't exactly as shown when they go to full production years later. If BioWare labeled it as being part of the final product I would be more understanding of people feeling a little misled, but people need to take personal responsibility too especially when it was a leaked video based on footage of a game that was openly labeled as incomplete.
From the Twitter thread:
James Leung @jobias
Gonna bookmark this BSN thread and spam it whenever anyone says we don't say enough about our in-progress projects. http://forum.bioware...s-sold/page-1 …
James Leung @jobias
I was in that theatre in-person. Everything was super clearly labelled as pre-alpha, and no video was ever officially released either.
James Leung @jobias
I'm not sure what else one could reasonably do in that situation.
Why? It's a cover in case something doesn't make it, but the expectation they're setting up by showing the footage at all is that what is shown is demonstrative of the game being sold.
I didn't watch pre footage because I know it is usually the wrong thing to do. Regardless, my expectations were low and I was impressed.
Word of advice for future reference? Hyperbole is not to blame, believe it or not.
Why? It's a cover in case something doesn't make it, but the expectation they're setting up by showing the footage at all is that what is shown is demonstrative of the game being sold.
So despite the 'Pre-Alpha' label warning people that some things shown might not make it into the final game, despite Bioware never showing this video in any official advertising leading up to the game, and despite all the youtube videos done by people like Angry Joe that make no mention of the features seen in a the vid, Bioware didn't do enough to warn people?
I'm sorry but Bioware put out plenty of others videos, more than enough for the average consumer to determine what the game was like.
Blame the customers and not the slick talking marketing bro.
Despite the old adage, the customer is not always right. Heck there's a site that contains many stories of customers making mistakes or outright ignoring information either because it doesn't jive with their particular world view, they are incapable of admitting they made a mistake. I used to work at a Themepark and despite the smile I maintained....I was continually amazed at the ignorance of our guests. For example, I told a woman with a Toddler that her child was too small to ride a rather violent thempark attraction...despite that she tried to sneak on anyways, ignoring the potential safety hazard to her kid. Another time, we had a guy try and take a six month old baby on an inverted roller coaster...and he was shocked when we wouldn't let him do it....and I should mention that the thempark has signs EVERYWHERE clearly stating the height requirements....and that those same requirments are also on the website....so yeah....customers are not always right.
Another time, we had a guy try and take a six month old baby on an inverted roller coaster...
What developers could do is mention when anticipated features are cut.
Pre-alpha is a handy dodge. When you're hyping up a product it's a shield against criticism - how can people complain about something that might be improved later? And then after the release you can dismiss anyone disappointed that a feature didn't materialise.
Bios been doing this for years now, but this one is my personal favorite...
I love how so many people keep insisting Bioware released this footage to create hype, or whatever.
Bioware did NOT release this video. It was NOT meant for the public, none of you should've seen it (unless you actually were at the event as a journalist). Some journalist leaked it.
I love how so many people keep insisting Bioware released this footage to create hype, or whatever.
Bioware did NOT release this video. It was NOT meant for the public, none of you should've seen it (unless you actually were at the event as a journalist). Some journalist leaked it.
I used "leak" in quotes because (as has been stated repeatedly), the event was open and there was no NDA. It wasn't some super secret meeting of the Illuminati.
... and I see people still can't grasp the concept that BioWare chose not to say a word when they realized the features hyped by their demonstrations were not going to make the final cut. There's no way around it.
EDIT - And this doesn't even include the keep customization feature, which was marketed more than once in the lead up to launch.
Eh, they showed it to journalists so they could tell people about it, in order to build hype, it's not like it was some big secret that was only revealed illicitly. If no one had leaked it we'd have still had stuff like this article giving us a detailed run-down of what was going on.
That article, for some reason, won't load for me. But if the writer mentions these things are going to be in the game as something factual, that's completely on him/her and he/she is the one deceiving you, not Bioware.
Especially a journalist should know what pre-alpha means.
edit: oh the link opened. It took forever to load though, wtf.
So what is pre-alpha, then? At what point does a game cease to be what it is, as its features are axed from the launch candidate?
Hiding behind pre-alpha as an excuse for withholding information from the consumer defends a complete lack of responsibility.
So what is pre-alpha, then? At what point does a game cease to be what it is, as its features are axed from the launch candidate?
Hiding behind pre-alpha as an excuse for withholding information from the consumer defends a complete lack of responsibility.
Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[153] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features.[154] These features may be further revised based on testing and feedback.[153] Additional small, new features may be added, similarly planned, but unimplemented features may be dropped.[154] Programmers focus mainly on finishing the codebase, rather than implementing additions.[152] Alpha occurs eight to ten months before code release[153], but this can vary significantly based on the scope of content and assets any given game has.
Pre-alpha is before that.
Why? It's a cover in case something doesn't make it, but the expectation they're setting up by showing the footage at all is that what is shown is demonstrative of the game being sold.
Not necessarily.
I said this in a thread a while ago, but pre-alpha demonstrations are pretty much the continuation of gurellia videos we see from E3, early alpha demos of games that completely change over time.
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is a perfect example of this, early footage have scenes and parts of it that never even showed up into the game. The Triforce scene is almost infamous for that.
It's part of the game in the end, since companies have been doing that since the eighties with screenshots too.
Pre-alpha is before that.
Curious that your definition explicitly uses the term "feature complete." 
So what is pre-alpha, then? At what point does a game cease to be what it is, as its features are axed from the launch candidate?
Hiding behind pre-alpha as an excuse for withholding information from the consumer defends a complete lack of responsibility.
If you are going to tell people that the term pre-alpha is wrong at least explain why before expecting any sort of answer.
Edit: A trailer? Is that it?
Can I just point out that there were, like, an overwhelming number of YouTube videos showing hours of gameplay from many different authors that BioWare had brought in, simply to showcase a really good idea of what the finished product would be like? I mean, it was a LOT and it was the weeks heading into launch.
That trumped anything pre-alpha for me, honestly.
If you are going to tell people that the term pre-alpha is wrong at least explain why before expecting any sort of answer.
Edit: A trailer? Is that it?
I'll be sure to do that, whenever I actually say "pre-alpha," as a term, is wrong. But since I didn't do that here, I'm not sure what your point is...
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