137 réponses à ce sujet

[katamuro]

I liked it generally just some details that doesnt make much sense or could have been done better.

 

The annoying one is where the shepard battles the reaper destroyer. The kind of firepower that ships have in ME universe even if they were slowed down by the atmosphere and were fired from broadside cannons would have been quite more damaging to the reaper destroyer than what we saw. Also there is no real reason why they needed the sync laser, a ship in orbit could easily use optics to see the reaper and shoot at it, Plus no matter how tough reapers are dropping a few dozen projectiles with a kiloton energy would have been enough to damage it, after all it wasnt a whole reaper just a destroyer. I know I know it all comes down to that the creators wanted to make reaper threat so high and unstopabble by normal means that the crucible would have been the only real option, and I get that for mile long reapers but the 160m long reaper destroyers should be way easier to destroy. 

 

Second one which is kinda a huge missed chance in my book was where at the end Tali takes her mask of and gazes into the sunset. It would have been a perfect moment for the camera to pan around and show her face, possibly even with tears in her eyes. Such a shame they missed a great cinematic moment. 

[Quarian Master Race]

The geth got rewritten into completely innocent pinnochios who don't even superficially resemble their ME1 and 2 counterparts philosophically, and all the quarians save Tali and Koris  become bumbling one dimensional villians (or rather, the writers make every attempt to portray them that way)

[Based Prothean]

The geth got rewritten into completely innocent pinnochios who don't even superficially resemble their ME1 and 2 counterparts philosophically, and all the quarians save Tali and Koris  become bumbling one dimensional villians (or rather, the writers make every attempt to portray them that way)

 

 

I second this, I honestly wish that Chris L'Etoile had continued to be the writer for Legion and the Geth into ME3.

[themikefest]

What I didn't like is Tali and Legion have to be in the game to achieve peace. 

 

When curing/sabotaging the genophage, no one specific is needed

[Quarian Master Race]

What I didn't like is Tali and Legion have to be in the game to achieve peace. 

 

When curing/sabotaging the genophage, no one specific was needed

That's probably the only thing I did like. Having the quarians relent from destroying the geth when Koris (who is also possibly not alive) is the only leader who has any sympathy for them would have been jarring.

Similarly, without Legion going beyond the Veil and taking back his experiences with organics, the geth have little reason to act any differently than they have for the previous 300 years (kill all meatbags), especially with that douchey geth VI thing, who was basically a goddamn Cylon.

I really wish more optimal results had boiled down to making the correct choices rather than only using Shepard's silver tongue to magically solve everything (which you can still do anyway as long as you don't skip any missions and always pick upper right and upper left when possible).

 

[RatThing]

The change of the geth has little to do with why I hate the Rannoch arc. In fiction I hate nothing more than preachiness and the attempt to brainwash me. And I can't think of anything that tried as hard as Mass Effect with their synthetics, with the Rannoch arc as the highpoint. I said it already in the other thread, literally every single story element of the arc was used to hammer down the overall message, that those who don't see the Geth als living beings and want to destroy them are the bad guys while people like Koris are the good guys.

Just a few of countless examples. Why did Gerrel attack the Dreadnought while Shepard is in it? So he appears insane and irrational. Why did Koris crash his ship on the Geth turret? So the one Quarian who actually accepts the Geht as beings is the hero. The reason for why Shepard needed to enter the Geth server was so obviously a silly excuse to show some Geth propaganda. Nothing of it made sence. Gerrel had radio contact with Shepard, he could've checked how long they need to evacuate and wait a couple minutes. Koris, if in range, could've shoot at the turret with his ship cannons instead of crashing the ship on it.

It was ridiculous. Playing through Rannoch I felt like a lab rat in a labyrinth experiment who was guided with incentives and penalties to find the right exit, and the final choice should check whether the subject passed or failed the test. How fitting is it that so many people did not know what would happen if they let the Geth upload the code in their first playthrough. This was supposed to be a choice based RPG, it was advertised as our story. If so, this kind of writing should be inacceptable. No one of the Geth supporters would be missing anything if the Quarians would not be one dimensional villains, if the reasons for the war would have been brought up (and there were good reasons for it), if you could confront Koris somehow or, god forbid, if you would have the option to take control over the Geth (as has been foreshadowed by Xen) and this way get war assets of both sides without to submit to the general agenda concerning synthetics.

 

edit: same goes for the Tuchanka arc though it is not as bad as Rannoch (especially if you have Wreav instead of Wrex). You can enjoy the Tuchanka arc even if you agree with the Genophage, but you have no chance to enjoy the Rannoch arc if you disagree with the message here. Something tells me it was designed to be this way.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well it's quite simple. Geth VI was basically a Number 1, and Legion was a Number 6. If the sixes are dead you get the 1s pushing their agenda. Tali and Koris are the only ones who care about the Cylons. The rest are fighting for their own survival. So the choice is simple. Without either Tali or Legion, do you side with organics or synthetics? Given the fact that the Geth were hacked once already... and sided with the reapers twice... and the number of organics in the galaxy is growing smaller, who do you choose?

 

The Rannoch arc was designed to present the Quarians as a bunch of racists. And because they're faceless, and less expressive than Legion or the Geth VI it is easy to dislike them.

 

However, I simply didn't allow Legion to upload the code. Tali was Shepard's friend. She stood by Shepard's side when they took down Balak and defeated Saren. Admiral Gerrel was the only time during the dreadnought mission that a Quarian fired on Shepard, and that happens even with Admiral Xen on board the ship. Legion presented the Quarians with suits during the mission - if this was actual video from their records why were the Quarians in suits? Legion's explanation about Shepard's mind having the image of the Quarians with suits didn't wash. (actually I know it was because Bioware didn't want to design a new model for this mission) So Shepard believed this to be Geth propaganda. Legion had lied and admitted it on the way to the last mission. Who knows what else he'd lied about? Legion was the only Geth who hadn't tried to kill Shepard. The Geth under Legion's control also didn't try to kill Shepard. Every other encounter, the Geth fired on Shepard. You see where this is going. No reaper code for you.

[Reorte]

I see where you're coming from Ratthing. I get annoyed by such obvious preachiness when I see it.

I think for me though it was the change in the geth that was the worst part of it. Before then they were something pretty rare - a genuinely completely different form of intelligence that nevertheless felt plausible. How does an intelligence work that's made up of constantly shifting components? What is an ethical way of dealing with it if you come into conflict with it? And so on. Now we've just got a new Pinocchio, with a fundamental, unquestioned assumption that being more like us is an improvement, an upgrade that's better for the geth and that they're not a perfectly valid, full, but different form of intelligence as they are. And it's written as if being more like us is so obviously better that it's never even questioned, that it never occured to the writer that there's anything to question.

That all said I mostly enjoyed the Rannoch arc and it's definitely one of the better parts of ME3, but it's got big flaws.

[Display Name Owner]

As has been said the Geth were portrayed as the poor misunderstood children, beset by the cowardly vicious Quarians. I understand wanting to show both sides of the argument but they pushed it entirely too far. Whether Synthetic life has the same value as organic is an interesting question and whatever your argument is fair enough, but I still think that extincting the Quarians for the sake of a load of machines was the paragon option (barring peace) is just, I dunno... off.

 

Moreover the Geth were ruined imo. They were fascinating because they didn't experience organic emotions and had no desire to. Then in Rannoch they want to become exactly like everyone else, with individuality and emotions and all that. It's pretty much the most boring way the Geth could possibly have been developed. Plus the whole 'conformity' message it delivers is kind of unpleasant to me.

[themikefest]

I mentioned this in another thread

 

Admiral Raan/Tali don't care about their species. Why are they standing there like idiots letting the geth vi/Legion upload the code? If Shepard chooses the Quarians, the geth vi/Legion attack Shepard.

[Barquiel]

I think the Rannoch arc is one of the better parts of the game, but it's far from perfect. The missions are alright, choices mattering is always cool and the resolutions (siding with the geth for me) work well enough, imo. Legion's sacrifice is touching, but makes no bloody sense. I'm not a big fan of the reaper code. The geth with their collective intelligence were one of the alien cultures that BW tried to make...truly alien. Now they are just your run of the mill generic robots .

[RatThing]

how so? the whole "did this unit have a soul" was already established in ME2 (legion mentions it to Shepard)

I don't see how the geth are different in ME3 the whole "pinnochio" thing seemed like a natural progression from ME2

 

and the admirals were always huge dicks (remember ME2 tali loyalty mission)

 

and your username is a bit suspious lol and it seems like you are biased and wanted the admirals to be the clear good guys and the geth the bad one's like in ME1

 

Is it too much to ask for a story where you get to decide for yourself who is the good or bad guy? That's actually possible, see the writers of Fallout New Vegas actually accomplished it.

 

Gerrel wasn't a dick in ME2, he seemed quite reasonable at the time. Koris first appeared to be a dick, but he had the chance to redeem himself if you`d talk to him (Gerrel never had the chance in ME3). Xen, yeah, she was always the mad scientist. 

[Vazgen]

What I don't like about it is that the geth go from "we create our own future" to "Reaper code!! Shiny!! Me want!". If Legion did not ask to upload the code I would be more inclined to trust the geth. And I don't really care about geth propaganda server as it does not show how the geth killed 99% of quarian population including non-combatants. 

[DirtySHISN0]

Its a murky palestine/israel style conflict. I favour the Geth.

[Reorte]

I don't see how the geth are different in ME3 the whole "pinnochio" thing seemed like a natural progression from ME2

The Pinocchio is quite the opposite from the progression in ME2, where they were an entirely valid but completely different form of intelligence out to make its own way. ME3 changed that to one that saw itself as a lesser form that aspired to be more like us, thus saying that the geth's intelligence is a fundamentally lesser one, and what's more it didn't even question that - it felt like it was written by someone who so completely believed that that it never occured to him to question it.

[RatThing]

yeah but you can decide who was right and who was wrong

You are not forced to decide with either of them or to make peace same with the genophage arc

You don't have to think that the krogan deserve another chance etc..

So I'm not sure what you are saying it seems people were just pissed that their factions were not shown in a better way

 

the geth used the freaking reaper code so I don't think that the quarians were one dimension villians thats just exaggerating

 

also I like fallout new vegas but the writing/story/characters are definitely not the reason why so its a bad comparison

 

The Reaper code thing has been excused like a thousand times ("we didn`t wish to die". "we wanted to protect ourselves" and so forth), the actions of the Quarians were never explained or excused.

 

The choices at the end were just an alibi. It doesn't matter anymore when the author defines one as the good choice and the other as the bad one. Although it still felt good to take the lower right one, since this was my way to flip the bird to those who wrote that stuff.

 

Fallout New Vegas is a good example of a game that lets you choose a side without trying to hammer down which is the right one. In F:NV I felt like I was in control, in the Rannoch arc I felt like I was following the Rat-Catcher of Hamelin.

[fhs33721]

I mentioned this in another thread

 

Admiral Raan/Tali don't care about their species. Why are they standing there like idiots letting the geth vi/Legion upload the code? If Shepard chooses the Quarians, the geth vi/Legion attack Shepard.

I know, right. That bothers me to no end as well. Tali/Raan just stand there and let Shepard decide to wipe out their race out. "It's ok I won't intervene mighty Shepmaster. I'll just passive agressively commit suicide. That will teach you, you a*s." Legion at least isn't a spineless victim that stands by idly as you intend to wipe out his species.

[b4ld5h3ph4rd]

It doesn't have Admiral Shala'Raan seeing Legion and exclaiming "what the HELL is this" in her pack a day voice.

[Vazgen]

I know, right. That bothers me to no end as well. Tali/Raan just stand there and let Shepard decide to wipe out their race out. "It's ok I won't intervene mighty Shepmaster. I'll just passive agressively commit suicide. That will teach you, you a*s." Legion at least isn't a spineless victim that stands by idly as you intend to wipe out his species.

Have you thought that they won't stand a chance against Shepard? Dude just took down a Reaper. On foot. And there is that geth standing right next to him. Look at what happened to Legion

If I were to write them acting I'd have Raan/Tali point a gun at Legion and give player an option to shoot them down via Renegade interrupt. 

[fhs33721]

Have you thought that they won't stand a chance against Shepard? Dude just took down a Reaper. On foot. And there is that geth standing right next to him. Look at what happened to Legion

If I were to write them acting I'd have Raan/Tali point a gun at Legion and give player an option to shoot them down via Renegade interrupt. 

So it better to not even try at all and then kill youself afterwards anyway? That is downright stupid. They have nothing to loose anymore at this point.

Attack Legion and fail-> you die and your species dies afterwards.

Attack Legion and actually manage to damage him enough to stop him-> You might still die because Shepard kills you afterwards but your Species will win and defeat the geth.

Do nothing and kill youself afterwards-> Your people and you die for certain.

 

So which one are you gonna choose the "Attack Legion" option ot the "Do nothing and kill yourself afterwards" option?