137 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

Assuming they find them and chase them down. Either way, you have to make a lot of assumptions about the reaper's MO to really know which would be preferable. What we saw in-game is that the reapers do not occupy all systems at all times, the Normandy escapes them by jumping to FTL, and it looks to me like they move on once they've completed their harvest of any given system.

Reapers are faster in and out of FTL.

Codex:

The Reapers' thrusters and FTL drives appear to propel them at more than twice the speed of Citadel ships. Estimates of their location in dark space suggest they can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour period.

[Iakus]

and the Reapers can follow them, hell the Reapers are faster, and if the Reapers sit on the Mass Relays then the Quarians will be stuck, they can't survive so far away from fuel and such, thry may be able to FTL between systems, to more Reapers, but they'll never survive on their own in the Flotilla

The Reapers are faster, but objects in ftl can't be tracked.  So the quarians could in theory escape into the vastness of interstellar space.

 

But you are right about the quarians being stuck at that point.  There's no fuel to be had there, nor any way to discharge their drive cores.  They'd be stuck in centuries-old ships waiting for their supplies to run out or break down.

[Valmar]

Assuming they find them and chase them down. Either way, you have to make a lot of assumptions about the reaper's MO to really know which would be preferable. What we saw in-game is that the reapers do not occupy all systems at all times, the Normandy escapes them by jumping to FTL, and it looks to me like they move on once they've completed their harvest of any given system.

 

The reaper's used to harvest without the relay network. So clearly they are able to deal with these "run away and hide" tactics. It wouldn't be as effective and efficient, but they'd still get their target.

 

The one thing the quarians could use to their advantage is the stealth technology that they apparently got from the turians, but that can only be used in relatively brief intervals. In any case, jumping to FTL only works for so long, because unlike the reapers, their ships eventually need to be refueled.

 

According to the salarians the stealth tech isn't expected to be effective for long before  the reapers develop counter measures to work around it. So that's only a temporary solution.

[Daemul]

Trying to hide from the Reapers is pointless, they'll just destroy all fuel depots and camp the relays, then just wait for the Quarians to run out of supplies. Some Quarian Captain is eventually going to get desperate and is going to end up doing something stupid in order to save his crew from a slow and painful death, and he'll end up giving away the rest of the fleet's location in the process. 

 

The Reapers have time on their side, it's an inevitable win for them. 

[Pasquale1234]

I just think it's the height of foolishness for the Quarians to be starting a war with the geth to take Rannoch during a reaper invasion. Even if they are successful, it would take the reapers a day or two to harvest all ~ 17M of them (probably less after the geth war). What they should be doing is forming alliances with other species to fight the reapers.

Which brings up an interesting conundrum - if it takes billions of lives to create a reaper, what will the reapers do with the Quarians?

[Vortex13]

I just think it's the height of foolishness for the Quarians to be starting a war with the geth to take Rannoch during a reaper invasion. Even if they are successful, it would take the reapers a day or two to harvest all ~ 17M of them (probably less after the geth war). What they should be doing is forming alliances with other species to fight the reapers.

Which brings up an interesting conundrum - if it takes billions of lives to create a reaper, what will the reapers do with the Quarians?

 

 

Kill them.

 

 

I highly doubt that each and every single species ever encountered by the Reapers became a Reaper at the end of their respective cycle. 

[Pasquale1234]

Kill them.
 
 
I highly doubt that each and every single species ever encountered by the Reapers became a Reaper at the end of their respective cycle.

That's just it - they skip species who are not yet evolved enough to meet their criteria for harvest.

The Quarians are evolved enough, there just aren't enough of them to preserve in reaper form.

[Barquiel]

I just think it's the height of foolishness for the Quarians to be starting a war with the geth to take Rannoch during a reaper invasion. Even if they are successful, it would take the reapers a day or two to harvest all ~ 17M of them (probably less after the geth war). What they should be doing is forming alliances with other species to fight the reapers.

Which brings up an interesting conundrum - if it takes billions of lives to create a reaper, what will the reapers do with the Quarians?

I doubt the reapers would bother harvesting the quarians, they would probably just nuke them from orbit. But I agree, dumping all your civilians on one planet in the middle of the reaper war was a terrible idea. If the reapers were smart they would have attacked Rannoch after Shepard saved the quarians, thus forcing the migrant fleet to fight so that they can't help the other races.

[themikefest]

Didn't the Leviathan turd say that they harvest all life - organic and synthetic,  preserving them in reaper form? Maybe they mix and match just like putting strawberries and bananas together to make a smoothie

[Vortex13]

That's just it - they skip species who are not yet evolved enough to meet their criteria for harvest.

The Quarians are evolved enough, there just aren't enough of them to preserve in reaper form.

 

 

I understand that the Quarians are 'evolved' enough by Reaper standards, I am saying that the Reapers aren't going to bother trying to 'preserve' them. If a species is too few or difficult to easily convert into a new Reaper they won't waste time trying to cultivate said species into a new member of their army.

 

We have seen evidence of this in the current cycle with the Vorcha. The Vorcha are immune (or at least highly resistant) to indoctrination, upon discovering this the Reapers opt to just bomb all of their population centers on all of their worlds from orbit instead of trying to deal with the problems that an indoctrination-proof species will create.

[Pasquale1234]

I doubt the reapers would bother harvesting the quarians, they would probably just nuke them from orbit. But I agree, dumping all your civilians on one planet in the middle of the reaper war was a terrible idea. If the reapers were smart they would have attacked Rannoch after Shepard saved the quarians, thus forcing the migrant fleet to fight so that they can't help the other races.

They could just nuke them - unless they wanted to convert them to shock troops, like husks.

[Sir DeLoria]

Oh wow, there hasn't been a Geth-Quarian debate in ages. Shall I go wake up Deinon yet?

[Valmar]

That's just it - they skip species who are not yet evolved enough to meet their criteria for harvest.

The Quarians are evolved enough, there just aren't enough of them to preserve in reaper form.

 

The number presented to use for making a reaper was based on the assumption of EDI and it was with the context of that species being humanity, due to their special nature. The reapers only make one "capital" reaper ship using one specific species during each harvest. For our cycle that would be the humans. The other races are made into the "lesser" reaper ships, such as the one we encounter on rannoch. It's possible that these considerably smaller reapers require less organics to create. So I wouldn't rule out the reapers harvesting the quarians eventually. They're just, understandably, not a priority due to their low numbers. 

[Sifr]

Trying to hide from the Reapers is pointless, they'll just destroy all fuel depots and camp the relays, then just wait for the Quarians to run out of supplies. Some Quarian Captain is eventually going to get desperate and is going to end up doing something stupid in order to save his crew from a slow and painful death, and he'll end up giving away the rest of the fleet's location in the process. 

 

The Reapers have time on their side, it's an inevitable win for them. 

 

The other problem is that as the creators of the network, the Reapers know the location of ALL the Relays and where they lead to, whereas the Council's fear of opening unknown relays and causing another Rachni War means they've only explored a small amount of the network.

 

It makes me suspect that was probably the reason the Reapers manipulated the Rachni to go to war in the first place and that they use this kind of tactic each Cycle to instill the fear that "Here Be Dragons" is what potentially lies beyond any unknown relay? It would be an effective way of limiting expansion, so the races have less foxholes to hide in when time comes for the Harvest?

 

And it was probably worse for the previous Cycles, since Vigil implied in ME1 that before the Prothean's sabotaged the Citadel, the Reapers were able to lock down the Relays so only they were able to use them, forcing the Protheans to rely on conventional "slow" FTL to fight them?

 

That might also explain why the Charon Relay was encased in ice in so short a period of time? Perhaps the Prothean researchers on Mars, stranded within in the Solar Sytem, took advantage of the Relay being inactive to deactivate it's self-cleaning function and purposefully seal it in ice in the hopes that the Reapers might pass them by?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The reapers would go and make abominations out of the Quarians and store those on a structure beyond the Omega 4 relay with a couple of large dreadnoughts for the next cycle. They would be the next cycle's Collectors.

 

Nothing goes to waste.

[Iakus]

The reapers would go and make abominations out of the Quarians and store those on a structure beyond the Omega 4 relay with a couple of large dreadnoughts for the next cycle. They would be the next cycle's Collectors.

 

Nothing goes to waste.

Sounds like Qunari

[Daemul]

That's just it - they skip species who are not yet evolved enough to meet their criteria for harvest.

The Quarians are evolved enough, there just aren't enough of them to preserve in reaper form.

 

The Quarians are going to be made into Destroyers so they should be enough of them for that. 

[Valmar]

The other problem is that as the creators of the network, the Reapers know the location of ALL the Relays and where they lead to, whereas the Council's fear of opening unknown relays and causing another Rachni War means they've only explored a small amount of the network.

 

It makes me suspect that was probably the reason the Reapers manipulated the Rachni to go to war in the first place and that they use this kind of tactic each Cycle to instill the fear that "Here Be Dragons" is what potentially lies beyond any unknown relay? It would be an effective way of limiting expansion, so the races have less foxholes to hide in when time comes for the Harvest?

 

Actually the Leviathan dlc heavily suggests that the Leviathan's were the ones behind the Rachni wars. Which actually fits into the lore better than the reaper angle, given the extents the reapers had to go to in order to control them in ME3.  

 

 

And it was probably worse for the previous Cycles, since Vigil implied in ME1 that before the Prothean's sabotaged the Citadel, the Reapers were able to lock down the Relays so only they were able to use them, forcing the Protheans to rely on conventional "slow" FTL to fight them?

 

That might also explain why the Charon Relay was encased in ice in so short a period of time? Perhaps the Prothean researchers on Mars, stranded within in the Solar Sytem, took advantage of the Relay being inactive to deactivate it's self-cleaning function and purposefully seal it in ice in the hopes that the Reapers might pass them by?

 

Yes, that is exactly what the reapers did/do. Javik elaborates on this. The reapers take over the citadel and from there they lock down the relays, trapping everyone in their current area of space. Cut off from the rest of the galaxy the reapers are free to swoop in and harvest them, world by world, system by system. Once the reaper's have the citadel its game over.

 

As for Charon, that is possible. Though, personally, I believe the reapers deactivate the relay network after each harvest. This explains why there are inactive relays in the first place - and another reason why the protheans researchers that went to the citadel were trapped there. They turn them off, believing only when a species has reached the point of being able to find and activate them are they ready to join the harvest cycle. Our relay was encased with ice since it was inactive and so far out away from our sun.

 

That's just my assumption though.
 

[Iakus]

Actually the Leviathan dlc heavily suggests that the Leviathan's were the ones behind the Rachni wars. Which actually fits into the lore better than the reaper angle, given the extents the reapers had to go to in order to control them in ME3.  

 

Nope.  It was a hypothosis, but the information proves useless in tracking the Leviathans.

[Valmar]

Nope.  It was a hypothosis, but the information proves useless in tracking the Leviathans.

 

It proves useless in tracking them, yes. That doesn't mean it wasn't hinted. It just means it didn't help in finding their lair.

[von uber]

Oh wow, there hasn't been a Geth-Quarian debate in ages. Shall I go wake up Deinon yet?

 

Such a a shame Liara wasn't a Quarian, that would be like forty Christmases at once.

[Iakus]

It proves useless in tracking them, yes. That doesn't mean it wasn't hinted. It just means it didn't help in finding their lair.

Hinted, sure.  But there's no supporting evidence.  It's just an idea.

[Valmar]

Hinted, sure.  But there's no supporting evidence.  It's just an idea.

 

All I said was that it was suggested. Not that it was definitely so. You act as though I spoke in absolutes, where as you're the one speaking in more absolutes to "nope" something you latter admit is indeed hinted at - which was my only argument.

 

Regardless, it does fit within the context of the lore better than the reapers being the ones behind the wars. For various reasons I will elaborate on if really necessary.

[Iakus]

All I said was that it was suggested. Not that it was definitely so. You act as though I spoke in absolutes, where as you're the one speaking in more absolutes to "nope" something you latter admit is indeed hinted at - which was my only argument.

 

Regardless, it does fit within the context of the lore better than the reapers being the ones behind the wars. For various reasons I will elaborate on if really necessary.

You did not speak in absolutes.  But you did say it "heavily suggests" Your own words.  I simply refuted that, saying it was only hinted at.  It was an idea, nothing more.

[Valmar]

You did not speak in absolutes.  But you did say it "heavily suggests" Your own words.  I simply refuted that, saying it was only hinted at.  It was an idea, nothing more.

 

I admit I might had been a bit overzealous with my choice of words but it was mostly in combination of both the suggestive hint in Leviathan and backed by its correlation with the rest of the lore. As I said, it suits the rachni-control arc more and fits more squarely inline with the lore than it does with the assumption that reapers were behind it. The puzzle fits with less missing pieces this way. Factoring all that in I call it "heavily suggests". Really, thinking back on it, my biggest mistake wasn't the use of "heavily" but rather me tying it all in to just the Leviathan DLC when its just a part of the lore that points to it. Still, Leviathan is what provided the window for it to be feasible without being headcanon, imo, as it now can be seen as rather interpretation of presented lore.