Active skills:Walking fortress,Payback strike,Counterstrike and To the death (not as useful for mooks but for tougher enemies pure gold)
Passive skills: Flow of battle,Bear mauls the wolves
Equipment:Firm tournament axe,HoK ring,critical chance ring,cooldown amulet,HP belt and oc shield-using Dwarven proving shield for the moment
That is my Lego loadout and it is proven as solo Perilous ready.
I'll try this one next - time to drop shield wall for some TtD action.
I know going without shield wall seems like a WTF move
No it is not. People might think it is good while playing on routine or threatening, which it is - but on perilous mobs do way to much damage for it to be worth a skill slot on legionnaire. Only option on Perilous if you are going to work as a proper tank is to go full invulnerability.
Active skills:Walking fortress,Payback strike,Counterstrike and To the death (not as useful for mooks but for tougher enemies pure gold)
Passive skills: Flow of battle,Bear mauls the wolves
First off, I think to be a proper tank on Legionnaire you not only have to have counterstrike, but you have to have war cry as well. And then considering the passives, if you have war cry and counterstrike - you also get cutting words which gives you and your whole party 20% extra damage against taunted enemies. Thats actually enough of a reason to bring war cry, as with war cry you cant taunt a lot more than if you bring only counterstrike. Unfortunatly taunt duration is quite short so it is pretty usefull too bring two of them. 20% extra damage on enemies is really pure gold on Perilous.
Wait until you get Caliban, or at least a HOK ring, its the reason why I run a bit of a more aggressive build.
Equipment:Firm tournament axe,HoK ring,critical chance ring,cooldown amulet,HP belt and oc shield-using Dwarven proving shield for the moment
Perfect loadout for this legionnaire build (which is the best build by far for Perilous) is: Caliban (cunning and damage bonuses +highest dmg), 2x 10% crit chance rings (for that CD), 15% CD amulet (again CD), Superb belt of staggering (very underrated) and Dwarven proven shield (cunning and damage bonuses). That is exactly what I'm using atm. A practically unkillable short person.
So drasca you'll be pleased to know that i took your advice to heart about the importance of setting up cc first and foremost. Never realized how damn pesky archers and mages can actually be when you're trying to get in and draw aggro as a tank.
Pesky as in doing damage to you? It should not matter, because you should be invulnerable in just about every engagement - if you do it right. It's quite important to get the aggro of as many minions as possible as to increase damage upon you for WF CD, increased damage for your whole group against the aggroed enemies and less damage for your group.
With that in mind it is of course smart to get down CC first - but that is much more important to tell to all the ranged players, like archers etc. More often than not they ruin the opportunity for CC'ers to CC whole groups. Remember, taunt is also CC. So rule of thumb for ranged players, never start the engagement unless you yourself are willing to tank the dps. On perilous that would be futile.
Lunge and slash is not geared towards ultimate tank, but I will say the pros and why I like it.
First, more dps, you sacrifice to the death or war cry for the ability to do some pretty good damage on not only a single target, but several that are around it. More hits equal more crits. It
Well, if you play on perilous the increased DPS lunge and slash will give you is not worth it. You wont be doing a lot of DPS anyway. Secondly, you are removing very important skills in war cry or TTD for a small increase in DPS. Actually I would argue that war cry actually increase your DPS more, if you bring cutting words. Not only YOUR DPS, but the DPS of your WHOLE team. Not only that, but war cry, with the right build and equipment has a very low cool down and can be cast several times in one engagement.
All I have to say is cutting words + war cry + Perilous = invaluable.
When you play threatening or routine it doesnt really matter much what skills you bring on legionnaire. Your team should do more than enough damage anyway. I cant remember the last time I whiped on threatening. It's too easy now.
No it is not. People might think it is good while playing on routine or threatening, which it is - but on perilous mobs do way to much damage for it to be worth a skill slot on legionnaire. Only option on Perilous if you are going to work as a proper tank is to go full invulnerability.
First off, I think to be a proper tank on Legionnaire you not only have to have counterstrike, but you have to have war cry as well. And then considering the passives, if you have war cry and counterstrike - you also get cutting words which gives you and your whole party 20% extra damage against taunted enemies. Thats actually enough of a reason to bring war cry, as with war cry you cant taunt a lot more than if you bring only counterstrike. Unfortunatly taunt duration is quite short so it is pretty usefull too bring two of them. 20% extra damage on enemies is really pure gold on Perilous.
Perfect loadout for this legionnaire build (which is the best build by far for Perilous) is: Caliban (cunning and damage bonuses +highest dmg), 2x 10% crit chance rings (for that CD), 15% CD amulet (again CD), Superb belt of staggering (very underrated) and Dwarven proven shield (cunning and damage bonuses). That is exactly what I'm using atm. A practically unkillable short person.
Pesky as in doing damage to you? It should not matter, because you should be invulnerable in just about every engagement - if you do it right. It's quite important to get the aggro of as many minions as possible as to increase damage upon you for WF CD, increased damage for your whole group against the aggroed enemies and less damage for your group.
With that in mind it is of course smart to get down CC first - but that is much more important to tell to all the ranged players, like archers etc. More often than not they ruin the opportunity for CC'ers to CC whole groups. Remember, taunt is also CC. So rule of thumb for ranged players, never start the engagement unless you yourself are willing to tank the dps. On perilous that would be futile.
I tried full tank build without Payback strike and with War cry+cutting words,but it didn’t ended well.I don’t know,Payback strike is simply too good to be skipped.Maybe I would rather substitute TtD with Warcry.
And as for Caliban,I still don’t have it after 600 hours of playing although I have Wealth banner,which means I bought quiet a few chests in store.But yes,when or if I get my mitts on the Caliban,I’ll substitute FTA with it and add one more superb crit ring.
I tried full tank build without Payback strike and with War cry+cutting words,but it didn’t ended well.I don’t know,Payback strike is simply too good to be skipped.Maybe I would rather substitute TtD with Warcry.
And as for Caliban,I still don’t have it after 600 hours of playing although I have Wealth banner,which means I bought quiet a few chests in store.But yes,when or if I get my mitts on the Caliban,I’ll substitute FTA with it and add one more superb crit ring.
If you want PBS I'd remove TTD instead, as TTD is a lot more situational, as it is only really viable on a few mobs and the bosses, while War Cry should be borderline spammed. For me it's either PBS or TTD, while War Cry is mandatory. If it didnt end well with that build you must've been doing something wrong as you should be able to tank everything even if you are in a full group, also considering that the build can solo perilous on its own.
My comment about equipment was mostly to emphasize how good superb belt of staggering work. On perilous if you get a few enemies to fall asleep instead of hitting you, it helps quite nicely. What to wear on belt is still all up to preference, but some are of course better than others. Also, I might actually consider using moon axe instead of FTA. FTA has higher damage, but Moon Axe has higher crit chance and a very very nice proc. Unfortunatly, the less damage you do the less valuable your HoK-item would be - but I'd argue that you'd wont nescessarily get a lot more kills using FTA instead of Moon Axe... Even when using Caliban and having a ton of crit chance doesnt result in that many kills. But it's HoK is still a nice bonus to bring along.
If you want PBS I'd remove TTD instead, as TTD is a lot more situational, as it is only really viable on a few mobs and the bosses, while War Cry should be borderline spammed. For me it's either PBS or TTD, while War Cry is mandatory. If it didnt end well with that build you must've been doing something wrong as you should be able to tank everything even if you are in a full group, also considering that the build can solo perilous on its own.
My comment about equipment was mostly to emphasize how good superb belt of staggering work. On perilous if you get a few enemies to fall asleep instead of hitting you, it helps quite nicely. What to wear on belt is still all up to preference, but some are of course better than others. Also, I might actually consider using moon axe instead of FTA. FTA has higher damage, but Moon Axe has higher crit chance and a very very nice proc. Unfortunatly, the less damage you do the less valuable your HoK-item would be - but I'd argue that you'd wont nescessarily get a lot more kills using FTA instead of Moon Axe... Even when using Caliban and having a ton of crit chance doesnt result in that many kills. But it's HoK is still a nice bonus to bring along.
Well,builds are not set in stone and I like promoting,so that’s all part of fun.
for me, it's all crit chance stacking with flow of battle.
all focussed on walking fortress as main since full guard gets pretty much taken out after 1-2 hits on perilous
Pretty sure most people have said basically this.
active:
walking fortress (helpful vs archers, guard on being hit)
counterstrike (taunt and knockdow counters, even on archers. full guard but guard is useless and only helpful to cover until walking fortress)
to the death (amazing vs boss/big guys. I can face tank templar commander through all his attacks with this and walking fortress)
payback strike (can go with something else here though. I like it for the aoe knockdown, gets me out of trouble when I am exposed with no guard or fortress and interrupts archers and such)
I have firm tournament axe (though use caliban at early levels), use dwarven proving shield (for the cunning mostly), cunning amulet, +200 health bet and recently got a 10% HoK ring that I plan to use with a 10% atk ring.
you'll be generally untouchable, especially if you've promoted some rogues and have gotten cunning up a bit. there is the odd moment when you are exposed with little/no guard or walking fortress and everything is on cooldown, but if your team-mates are putting out decent dps and cleaning up okay, that shouldn't be an issue.
edit: I'm not really keen on Warcry personally as guard doesn't feel that effective in perilous. To the death I can dump on a target and keep hitting them for quick full guard until they die. also TtD is helpful when you are 1v1 vs a strong enemy whereas warcry only really helps when you are in a crowd and in that case you'd expect your team to have killed most of the crowd as you get through walking fortress and counterstrike. my experience of warcry is ending up activating it when there's few targets left and I'm desperately trying to tank the last few tough guys.
Well,builds are not set in stone and I like promoting,so that’s all part of fun.
I never said they were. I'm just coming with suggestions. And in my mind there is no doubt that war cry + unforgiving is invaluable on perilous. That was what I was trying to say.
If the discussion is about making the ultimate tank build though, there are builds that are better than others. Hence the discussion. However fun you find it to experiment and promote is not the subject, but making the best legionnaire build is. I personally like to experience myself, and I figured that any build for a lego that is focusing on doing DPS - is going to be waste of space on perilous.
edit: I'm not really keen on Warcry personally as guard doesn't feel that effective in perilous. To the death I can dump on a target and keep hitting them for quick full guard until they die. also TtD is helpful when you are 1v1 vs a strong enemy whereas warcry only really helps when you are in a crowd and in that case you'd expect your team to have killed most of the crowd as you get through walking fortress and counterstrike. my experience of warcry is ending up activating it when there's few targets left and I'm desperately trying to tank the last few tough guys.
Having war cry for me has nothing to do with guard (well, only a little) but everything to do with controlling aggro and getting a bonus 20% damage for your whole team thanks to cutting words - at the same time preventing aggro on them. This is actually what you are a tank for as far as I'm concerned. It's not nescessarily about your output but how you are usefull to the team, and how much you can prevent them taking damage, and boosting their damage. Such is a tanks jobs as far as I see it. Considering that War Cry, is imo mandatory.
On your build I would personally take out either TTD or PBS, whicever you prefer the most - you keep.
Let me also put in a disclaimer: everyone is free to do whatever they want. I'm just arguing as to what is the actual best tank build - and for that I would only consider perilous as on the other difficulties it really dont matter what build you use - as you should be able to complete it anyway.
Just did my second promotion - I think a lot of people are not playing correct/enough or have not tried Shield Bash.
Payback-upgrade
Shield Bash-upgrade
WF
Counterstrike.
Everything you need, SB will keep your barrier/shield up as long as you have something to move to and hit, CS for all area Taunt and WF for emergency.
Wish payback was a little stronger but it stuns with Upgrade and works with a unique weapon which I have in Thunderstrike. I played Perilous pretty much all Saturday with him not worring much about the party and if you are aggressive you basically can tank 1 on 1 against just about anything. The only issue is making sure you have enough stamina to move to the next SB to keep guard up. Any mages/archers with you sit back and shoot at will.
Very fun, maybe only downside is CS cooldown.
Just did my second promotion - I think a lot of people are not playing correct/enough or have not tried Shield Bash.
Thats quite a statement after your second promotion. I have 15 promotions on legionnaire, and I have used shield bash. Just to clarify, it is not in what I consider the best build. Also, what do you mean that it "Keeps up barrier/shield"? As far as I know, SB doesnt do anything else than do actual damage and detonate on other abilities. PBS isnt nescessarily for damage, allthough it does a lot of damage - it is there to provide a chance for several critical hits, to knockdown enemies or get out of debilitating situations.
Also, the area where Lego has the most problems is when tanking 1 on 1's. What you should be doing is tanking everything. The more the merrier, and the more immortal you will be.
I doubt you made it through perilous without being carried, and not the other way around. A lot of things might have changed the last two weeks I havent been playing but unless you go for optimal builds and gear, perilous will be hard on those that do not.
But everyone can do whatever they want and see if it works for them. Most important thing though, a build or skill that works fine on routine or threatening, doesnt nescessarily work well on perilous.
Having war cry for me has nothing to do with guard (well, only a little) but everything to do with controlling aggro and getting a bonus 20% damage for your whole team thanks to cutting words - at the same time preventing aggro on them. This is actually what you are a tank for as far as I'm concerned. It's not nescessarily about your output but how you are usefull to the team, and how much you can prevent them taking damage, and boosting their damage. Such is a tanks jobs as far as I see it. Considering that War Cry, is imo mandatory.
On your build I would personally take out either TTD or PBS, whicever you prefer the most - you keep.
Let me also put in a disclaimer: everyone is free to do whatever they want. I'm just arguing as to what is the actual best tank build - and for that I would only consider perilous as on the other difficulties it really dont matter what build you use - as you should be able to complete it anyway.
tbf it's more a minor preference rather than being 100% optimal. payback strike is taken because I like to have some kind of offensive threat, though I know I'd be better off with warcry.
I usually find in perilous that as long as I draw the initial aggro from the mob by running in first with walking fortress, my team-mates have cleared out all the weak things before I've lost the aggro (typical pug archer/ele/aw spam)
TtD is just too nice for me with the damage increase for the party while I tank the enemy with walking fortress, war cry on it's own doesn't help much when you are trying to tank a giant or something and walking fortress is on cooldown.
my main issue with dropping pbs for war cry is that by the time I would've gotten warcry where I want it, I'm about to promote since I take other stuff as priority, but then again the whole legionnaire build here takes a few levels to get going anyway. have been considering building it as a "perfect tank" with warcry at level 20 and never promoting but it gets too tempting to start again.
Hmm.. I thought SB was generating Guard on all my bashes. Can't be just the CS pop, especially when on cool down.
I will double check it. Unless it is my shield.
Hmm.. I thought SB was generating Guard on all my bashes. Can't be just the CS pop, especially when on cool down.
I will double check it. Unless it is my shield.
Do you have the Estwatch (sp?) shield? That one does generate guard on hit.
Wait until you get Caliban, or at least a HOK ring, its the reason why I run a bit of a more aggressive build. Keep playing various chars, personally I'm working through, and I'm working up my chars for promotions, when I find builds I love on all 12 then I'm going to start promoting so that I have equal stats across the board, and as time wears on you'll get those superb crit chance rings or stuff, For example, I got caliban, then went and crafted an upgrade for it that included some crit chance.
I desperately need a crit chance ring. ANY crit chance ring. I landed a suberb belt of health yesterday, and an enhanced cooldown amulet.. so those were nice. But all I really have to depend on w/ critical hits is 2 rogue promotions and an amulet of superb cunning.
I have 49 mage promotions though.. go elementalist!
Active skills:Walking fortress,Payback strike,Counterstrike and To the death (not as useful for mooks but for tougher enemies pure gold)
Passive skills: Flow of battle,Bear mauls the wolves
Equipment:Firm tournament axe,HoK ring,critical chance ring,cooldown amulet,HP belt and oc shield-using Dwarven proving shield for the moment
That is my Lego loadout and it is proven as solo Perilous ready.
This is pretty close to what I went with, including accessories (minus HoK... why can't I get a decent ring?). The only thing I subbed was counterstrike for war cry.
I'm having an issue getting to the passives that I want though, they're too scattered. I really wanted the full 50% bonus to guard, but had to settle for 25%.
snip
I went with these and concur that even a novice on tank like I am this guy was near invulnerable. I died once and that was because I spammed my abilities too early and was taken down by archers.
The only problem with To the Death is that half the time other teammates steal my kill before I even have a chance to build guard. It's great on going toe-to-toe with bosses but otherwise if you're with another group and they don't know any better it's totally useless.
Robbiesan-
I have Shield of the Emperor.
... The only problem with To the Death is that half the time other teammates steal my kill before I even have a chance to build guard. It's great on going toe-to-toe with bosses but otherwise if you're with another group and they don't know any better it's totally useless.
TtD seems pretty much useless to me mostly because of this. Bosses are a magnet, everyone wants to kill them fast, it is in human nature to eliminate the biggest threat. IMO, for tough situations and for soloing, basic build with WC, PBS, CS, and WF is more robust.
Also, with legionnaire, there is little point in HoK rings but critical chance rings are very helpful. If you start losing health, you are doing something wrong (or there is some lag) and you usually die quite rapidly.
I'm having an issue getting to the passives that I want though, they're too scattered. I really wanted the full 50% bonus to guard, but had to settle for 25%..
You reach the peak at level 19. He is a late bloomer, that dwarven hero.
http://da-skills.net...1,00100,010,1,1
TtD seems pretty much useless to me mostly because of this. Bosses are a magnet, everyone wants to kill them fast, it is in human nature to eliminate the biggest threat. IMO, for tough situations and for soloing, basic build with WC, PBS, CS, and WF is more robust.
Also, with legionnaire, there is little point in HoK rings but critical chance rings are very helpful. If you start losing health, you are doing something wrong (or there is some lag) and you usually die quite rapidly.
If I actually had a good HoK ring I would use it. But all I have are two crappy common ones. Also I don't have any crit chance rings of any kind so I'm still waiting on those.
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