112 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfhowwl]

He's just channeling the spirit of MassivelyEffect, a Cerberus loyalist martyred by the mods.

[God]

Polluting the thread? Lol.

 

There's the reaction I was looking for! Nice work mate!

[b4ld5h3ph4rd]

Who were the two nazi's he mentioned? Miranda and Jacob?

[God]

I didn't know Nazi's existed in Mass Effect. Of any race.

[Kuseikos]

Uh, it's actually quite easy to avoid spoilers if you simply don't read forums that contain spoilers. 

As for answering or calling names, like I said, you play the game the way you like, if your character supports Cerberus it's hardly my business and I wasn't here discussing how other players have fun with ME1, 2 or 3.

 

This was all about my disappointment with ME2, which is based on the fact that:

 

1. I am playing a heroic character with a specific code of ethics. A RPG that doesn't take into account this important element (in fact, that's the single most important element about RPing) hardly counts as an RPG at all. We can call it a Halo-like action game at best. There simply is no way I can possibly justify the choice of working with the likes of Cerberus. However, I am more than pleased to see that ME3 is giving my character the option to clearly state she never worked for Cerberus. In fact, the general idea of using the Normandy they have built against their lot is quite pleasurable. Thanks to ME2, BW has convinced me that Cerberus is almost worse than the Reapers.

 

2. The second installment is not allowing to actually stumble on squad mates as you should do. You are given a list, which is handed down by a criminal mastermind, and you have to stick to that. Only Legion, as far as I know, is not directly or indirectly suggested by that twisted minded moron styling himself as TIM. Most of the people on that list are not led forward by the same ideals my character is enlightened by. They don't care about the order, the justice, the peaceful coexistence of the various species of the Galaxy. They are rather assassins, thugs, spies, mass-murderers: and none of them, if my character ever had a say on this matter, would have stepped aboard the Normandy. The general feel is that you are forced to side with these people just because BW guys thought it would be cool to side with them. This breaks the sense of control over the actions of your character and evidently forces her to follow a precise path that is not simply limited to the plot itself (which is feeble) but down to the very core of her ethics and behavior. You are forced to be the one that sides with Cerberus and joins a gang of thugs to save the day. Now, if I played a Renegade, I would think perhaps this is what she would do in fact, but a Paragon just wouldn't side with them. Hence, the only way to keep my character's ethics consistent with what she's been through the first game, was to fight BW back. They can force a character I wouldn't want aboard my vessel, but they can't force me to interact with that character. At the cost of suffering worse odds in the final battle, I will keep playing my character the way I like her to be. The final battle, however, went smooth and pleasant. I was hoping for more losses on my side (Zaeed for sure, probably Thane too), but at least I had Mordin punished for the evil he did to Krogans. Of course, right when I thought all hopes were lost, I had the magnificent opportunity to give the giantest middle finger ever to TIM moron, ah... so magnificently pleasant!

 

3. One of the great advantages of ME1 over most other RPGs, was the richness of the universe BW built in there. Different cultures to deal with was just the tip of an iceberg: there was this dense network of relationships connecting each race to the others, with Krogans hating Salarians and Turians, Turians siding with Volus, Volus being the opposite of Elcor, Asaris working as diplomats to connect the races, humans struggling their way to get the attention of the Council, each fitting in its niche, in a magnificent picture of alliances and balances, a rich universe that really felt like it had the beauty of Star Trek (think of the relationship between Romulans, Vulcans, Klyngons, Humans, and all other numerous races). All this richness offered an immense RP value, and the possibility to work through the complexity of this background scenery, whose scope was wall beyond the simple "kill the bad guy" plot that usually drives most RPGs. There were lost races to deal with too, and the plot has stupendous twists and turning points that you would never think of. Every detail, from the Keepers to the existence of the Citadel to the history of the Protheans was revealed step by step and explained in a way you wouldn't expect. That's how you build up a good story. Now, ME2 had nothing of this. The story was simple, actually simplified: there are the bad guys, you build up a preset squad and go kill them. All the vastity of ME1's universe went lost, with races reduced to some kind of weird melting pot, with most of their typical traits dumbed down; basically, only the hatred of Quarians against Geths was still there, and still didn't feel as three dimensional as what we had in ME1. Even the motives of the Reapers were rather dull: so, they need genetic material to reproduce... why don't they abduct one, or a few humans, instead of entire colonies? We all have the same DNA you know...

 

4. Much as some people apparently despised them, elevators weren't that bad (I found them humorous, with that typical elevator ambient music and news playing in the background). Much better than boring loading screens . But what I really liked was the Mako, which allowed you to actually choose a planet to explore, get down on the surface, and get a feel of what exploring the universe is like. There were numerous side quests and things to discover around the galaxy that had nothing to do with the main quest. I should point out that the best RPG I ever played is The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. I have played it for years. And I have never, ever played the main campaign (which was optional). I kept exploring the world, went around dungeon crawling, leveling up my character and slowly building him the way I liked it him to be. With so many side quests, such a vast world to explore, so many dungeons to wipe, so many treasures to collect, who would care about the main plot? 

ME1 wasn't of course *This* much free, but it still gave you the feeling you could see things, explore planets, watch their skies... I thought we'd have a bit less dull environments in ME2. Instead they stripped this part out completely. All in all, I have played almost 90 hours to get ME1 to the end. I completed ME2 in just 37 hours of play. That tells a lot. They should keep in mind that going around, exploring your environment, visiting areas where you can interact with things and people even if it doesn't necessarily advance the plot, make you feel like you are in a greater world, as any RPG should do. Even the Citadel, it was magnificent to go around that wonderful environment, such a huge area to explore... compare with the Citadel in ME2: a few stories of the same level with shops and such. Where's the joy of exploring? I would rather have a larger and more detailed Citadel. Even Omega and Ilium, despite being well done, still felt small, expecially Ilium. Omega was perhaps a bit vaster and nicer to explore, but not so rich in terms of side quests.

 

Now, I have started ME3 and I must say that I am beginning to like it. I am killing Cerberus morons, which is extremely pleasant, I am going around trying to win the alliance of various races. I have just convinced the Turian Patriarch to side with us, but now I will have to deal with Krogans. It is certainly going to be great to find a way to convince Krogans to seat at the same table with a Turian. Now, I am not saying much about ME3 because this is ME2 forum, but for the moment, I like it.

[RedCaesar97]

Opinions and preferences are personal matters so I will not disagree with your sentiment that you thought Mass Effect 2 was a disappointment compared to Mass Effect 1. However, I think some of your reasoning is flawed.
 
 

This was all about my disappointment with ME2, which is based on the fact that:
 
1. I am playing a heroic character with a specific code of ethics. A RPG that doesn't take into account this important element (in fact, that's the single most important element about RPing) hardly counts as an RPG at all. We can call it a Halo-like action game at best. There simply is no way I can possibly justify the choice of working with the likes of Cerberus. However, I am more than pleased to see that ME3 is giving my character the option to clearly state she never worked for Cerberus. In fact, the general idea of using the Normandy they have built against their lot is quite pleasurable. Thanks to ME2, BW has convinced me that Cerberus is almost worse than the Reapers.

 
Who says you have to justify working for Cerberus?
 
I do not like Cerberus either, but:
1. They rebuilt you so you could save humanity. The Alliance did not even care enough to even try to recover your body, or anyone on that died on the Normandy SR-1 for that matter.
 
2. They gave you a ship and a crew to fly it.
 
3. They discovered that it was the Collectors that were abducting human colonies and put together a team (you and your squad) to stop them. The Alliance was not doing that.
 
 
As for "I am playing a heroic character with a specific code of ethics". How are you not heroic in Mass Effect 2? You are saving human colonies, and potentially Earth. And along the way you get to stop various mercenary bands from doing very bad things. And you have the same code of ethics you had in Mass Effect 1. The only difference is the banner you are doing it under. In Mass Effect 1 you did heroic things for the Alliance and Citadel Council as an Alliance marine and later a Spectre. In Mass Effect 2 you are doing heroic things as a Cerberus agent.
 
You have the same Paragon/Renegade persuasion options, same paragon/neutral/renegade responses. The only real difference is the scope of the game and its view of the galaxy.
 

2. The second installment is not allowing to actually stumble on squad mates as you should do. You are given a list, which is handed down by a criminal mastermind, and you have to stick to that. Only Legion, as far as I know, is not directly or indirectly suggested by that twisted minded moron styling himself as TIM. Most of the people on that list are not led forward by the same ideals my character is enlightened by. They don't care about the order, the justice, the peaceful coexistence of the various species of the Galaxy. They are rather assassins, thugs, spies, mass-murderers: and none of them, if my character ever had a say on this matter, would have stepped aboard the Normandy. The general feel is that you are forced to side with these people just because BW guys thought it would be cool to side with them. This breaks the sense of control over the actions of your character and evidently forces her to follow a precise path that is not simply limited to the plot itself (which is feeble) but down to the very core of her ethics and behavior. You are forced to be the one that sides with Cerberus and joins a gang of thugs to save the day. Now, if I played a Renegade, I would think perhaps this is what she would do in fact, but a Paragon just wouldn't side with them. Hence, the only way to keep my character's ethics consistent with what she's been through the first game, was to fight BW back. They can force a character I wouldn't want aboard my vessel, but they can't force me to interact with that character. At the cost of suffering worse odds in the final battle, I will keep playing my character the way I like her to be. The final battle, however, went smooth and pleasant. I was hoping for more losses on my side (Zaeed for sure, probably Thane too), but at least I had Mordin punished for the evil he did to Krogans. Of course, right when I thought all hopes were lost, I had the magnificent opportunity to give the giantest middle finger ever to TIM moron, ah... so magnificently pleasant!

 
Okay, there is a lot to respond to here.
 
1. "The second installment is not allowing to actually stumble on squad mates as you should do."
 
Question: Why do you need to stumble on your squad? A squad is a squad. As an Alliance marine, you would not 'stumble' into a squad, rather your superior officers would assign you to a squad. How is this any different?
 
 
2. "You are given a list, ... Most of the people on that list are not led forward by the same ideals my character is enlightened by. They don't care about the order, the justice, the peaceful coexistence of the various species of the Galaxy. They are rather assassins, thugs, spies, mass-murderers: and none of them, if my character ever had a say on this matter, would have stepped aboard the Normandy."
 
Uh-huh. And... you did not have this issue in Mass Effect 1?
 - Wrex: Bounty hunter and mercenary. Hires himself out to the highest bidder.
 - Garrus: a cop that that does not like having to work within the law, and eventually quits because the law does not let him handle criminals the way he wants to. Wants to join you so he can operate outside the law with impunity.
 - Tali: Belongs to a race the rest of the galaxy sees as vagabonds, beggars, and thieves. She does nothing to dissuade that notion.
 
Mass Effect 2:
 - you still have Tali and Garrus; so if you like them, you still have them
 - Samara is a Justicar, sworn to uphold ideas of right and wrong
 - Jacob is former Alliance, but joined Cerberus because he did not like the red tape and felt Cerberus got things done. He's like Garrus but blander. He has doubts about Cerberus.
 - Grunt is a Krogan and not explicitly forced upon you by TIM
 - Kasumi (DLC) is like Tali but at least openly admits she is a thief
 - Thane may be an "assassin" but was essentially a special-forces soldier for the Hanar. The only difference between Thane and Shepard is that Thane does not work for a government. And oh yeah, Shepard is not working for a government in ME2. 
 - you already mentioned you like Legion
 
 
3. "Hence, the only way to keep my character's ethics consistent with what she's been through the first game, was to fight BW back. They can force a character I wouldn't want aboard my vessel, but they can't force me to interact with that character".
 
So basically, you completely ignore all their motivations and all character development. You completely ignore all the events that helped shaped their past and what mold them into the person they are or the profession they hold.
 
 
4. "...but at least I had Mordin punished for the evil he did to Krogans". The ethics of the genophage is a great debate. But if you are going to debate the genophage, you also have to debate the evil the Krogans did that resulted in the genophage in the first place. The Krogan openly defied the council by colonizing worlds they were not given, and then openly colonized worlds already occupied by other species. And when they were asked to leave, they went to war against the galaxy. And if it was not for the Turians combined with the genophage, they would have destroyed or enslaved the rest of the galaxy.
 
Do not decry one wrong without decrying the other first.
 
 

3. One of the great advantages of ME1 over most other RPGs, was the richness of the universe BW built in there. Different cultures to deal with was just the tip of an iceberg: there was this dense network of relationships connecting each race to the others, with Krogans hating Salarians and Turians, Turians siding with Volus, Volus being the opposite of Elcor, Asaris working as diplomats to connect the races, humans struggling their way to get the attention of the Council, each fitting in its niche, in a magnificent picture of alliances and balances, a rich universe that really felt like it had the beauty of Star Trek (think of the relationship between Romulans, Vulcans, Klyngons, Humans, and all other numerous races). All this richness offered an immense RP value, and the possibility to work through the complexity of this background scenery, whose scope was wall beyond the simple "kill the bad guy" plot that usually drives most RPGs. There were lost races to deal with too, and the plot has stupendous twists and turning points that you would never think of. Every detail, from the Keepers to the existence of the Citadel to the history of the Protheans was revealed step by step and explained in a way you wouldn't expect. That's how you build up a good story. Now, ME2 had nothing of this. The story was simple, actually simplified: there are the bad guys, you build up a preset squad and go kill them. All the vastity of ME1's universe went lost, with races reduced to some kind of weird melting pot, with most of their typical traits dumbed down; basically, only the hatred of Quarians against Geths was still there, and still didn't feel as three dimensional as what we had in ME1. Even the motives of the Reapers were rather dull: so, they need genetic material to reproduce... why don't they abduct one, or a few humans, instead of entire colonies? We all have the same DNA you know...

I agree that the plot of Mass Effect 2 is simpler than Mass Effect 1, so I will not get into it here.
 
But you are also glossing over some important facts I think:
1. Mass Effect 1 set up its universe and lore. It needed to introduce the universe and lore.
 
2. Mass Effect 2 gives us a closer look at that universe. Mass Effect 1 may have set the stage for this grand universe, but Mass Effect 2 gave us a closer look at it. We got to see Tuchanka and the Flotilla first-hand, places only mentioned in ME1. We also saw an Asari world (Illium). And it showed species in-fighting and politics.
 
And as for "all we did was fight in ME2"? What do you think ME1 was? Shepard goes to Feros, kills everything. Shepard goes to Noveria, kills everything. Shepard goes to Virmire, Therum, Ilos, the Citadel... kills everything. Shepard goes to some uncharted world, kills everything.
 
You spend the same amount of time in combat in ME2 as you did in ME1: about 50%.

 

4. Much as some people apparently despised them, elevators weren't that bad (I found them humorous, with that typical elevator ambient music and news playing in the background). Much better than boring loading screens . But what I really liked was the Mako, which allowed you to actually choose a planet to explore, get down on the surface, and get a feel of what exploring the universe is like. There were numerous side quests and things to discover around the galaxy that had nothing to do with the main quest. I should point out that the best RPG I ever played is The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. I have played it for years. And I have never, ever played the main campaign (which was optional). I kept exploring the world, went around dungeon crawling, leveling up my character and slowly building him the way I liked it him to be. With so many side quests, such a vast world to explore, so many dungeons to wipe, so many treasures to collect, who would care about the main plot? 
ME1 wasn't of course *This* much free, but it still gave you the feeling you could see things, explore planets, watch their skies... I thought we'd have a bit less dull environments in ME2. Instead they stripped this part out completely. All in all, I have played almost 90 hours to get ME1 to the end. I completed ME2 in just 37 hours of play. That tells a lot. They should keep in mind that going around, exploring your environment, visiting areas where you can interact with things and people even if it doesn't necessarily advance the plot, make you feel like you are in a greater world, as any RPG should do. Even the Citadel, it was magnificent to go around that wonderful environment, such a huge area to explore... compare with the Citadel in ME2: a few stories of the same level with shops and such. Where's the joy of exploring? I would rather have a larger and more detailed Citadel. Even Omega and Ilium, despite being well done, still felt small, expecially Ilium. Omega was perhaps a bit vaster and nicer to explore, but not so rich in terms of side quests.

A lot of people hated both the Mako and elevators.

 

I do not mind the elevator conversations... until you hear the same "Francis Kitt is making Elcor Hamlet" for the 50th time.

 

Exploring uncharted planets is fun... until it becomes a slog while you scour every inch for minerals or writings or ID tags or data discs (unless you have a map that shows where everything is). 

 

You are also talking about people that have played this game more than once. the first few times I played this game it was awesome and awe-inspiring. Now it just seems too big and lifeless, and has way too much space between me and where I want to go. Plus apparently the PC controls for the Mako were crap. I find them okay on consoles.

 

ME2 just stripped out the uncharted worlds and instead gave us varied environments to fight in, instead of the same three copy+paste environments in ME1: cave, bunker, ship. In ME1, the main mission environments were unique, but the secondary missions were bland and repeated. ME2 made all environments unique.

 

 

Also, big Citadel to explore... until you explored it and nothing new ever presented itself. You have like 2-4 new missions on the Citadel after you leave for the first time and that's it. No real incentive to explore everything in it once you are done. And there is no reason to go back to Feros or Noveria once you leave. Uncharted worlds are land once and leave.

 

 

And quite frankly, as you bring up Elder Scrolls, you basically lay out the problem of giant worlds: make them big and you need to fill them with content. Fill it up with content and the main story gets ignored. And the main story is why you were there in the first place.

[God]

Red, you beat me to it. 

 

Good work. 

 

My view on the OP here towards characters is that He seems like a guy with a chip on his shoulder in the morality sense. Like he himself is the paragon of good and everyone else needs to measure up to his standard and those that didn't were horrible people not worthy of anything but death.

 

@ OP, I'm here to debate if you like the benefits of Cerberus. People may not agree, but I have been told on occasion that I'm an excellent source for... re-examining Cerberus and showing that they aren't as evil as people believe.

 

Same with the Genophage: I believe Mordin made the right call. 

 

Still waiting for the ME3 ending though from you. I still have to see it.

[RedCaesar97]

My view on the OP here towards characters is that He seems like a guy with a chip on his shoulder in the morality sense. Like he himself is the paragon of good and everyone else needs to measure up to his standard and those that didn't were horrible people not worthy of anything but death.

 

The problem with morality in Mass Effect is that Shepard is kind of schizophrenic when it comes to morality. You can view "Paragon" as always doing the morally/ethically right thing -- or as it is explained in the manual, the harmonious thing -- but in-game Shepard will do very Renegade things regardless.

 

Consider:

 - stealing the Normandy without authorization

 - taking the law into his own hands numerous times, such as going after Fist instead going to C-SEC (you know, the actual authorities?)

 - destroying a religious site (Therum ruins; Protheans/Enkindlers are gods to the Hanar)

 - aiding and abetting criminals by helping Chorban and Jaleed scan Keepers; the device was stolen from their company, plus scanning Keepers does break the Citadel law of disturbing the Keepers

 - plus no matter how you choose to complete the Opold's smuggling quest, you are breaking several crimes

 

There are other examples.

 

 

A lot of players hated working for Cerberus. Thing is, there is an old saying: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". Many species in the galaxy view Cerberus as a human terrorist group, while Cerberus considers itself a human survivalist group. 

 

The OP seems to hate everyone in Cerberus because they work for Cerberus. Even if you just walk around the ship, you see people joined Cerberus because they were getting things done while the Alliance twiddled their thumbs. You see crewmen (and crew-women) who are looking up to Shepard and his squad to take down the Collectors because they took friends or family.

 

Miranda even mentions that the Salarians have their STG, and Cerberus is a privately-owned human equivalent. In ME2, The Illusive Man is certainly "human-first", but he is not anti-alien. I disagree with sentiment that 'the end justifies the means' but we do not always have that luxury in game or even in life unfortunately. 

 

 

While you can certainly role-play Shepard to match your own world-views to some extant, you will not always be able to role-play Shepard how you think it should be role-played. There are --and there must be limitations on-- based on how the choices fit into the narrative of the story, whether it is the main plot or a sub-plot or inconsequential sidequest.

 

 

A lot of players have always complained about working for Cerberus, saying "why can't I work for the Alliance instead, or as a Spectre do this...". Well I can tell you why: as a Spectre you work for the Citadel Council, and as an Alliance Marine you work for The Alliance. That means you follow their orders or you take on the assignments they give you. The Alliance and The Council either do not believe the Reapers exist, or believe you already dealt with the problem. Additionally, the council believes the missing human colonies are an Alliance matter, and the Alliance is too busy involved in its new military duties with the Citadel plus it does not actually believe the Collectors are behind the threat; they believe Cerberus is behind the abductions.

 

Cerberus is the only group actively looking to solve the problem and is actually getting things done, even going as far as to (nonsensically with space-magic) essentially resurrect Shepard from the dead to do it. Heck, even as an organization that is seen as anti-alien goes out of its way to have you recruit the best specialist aliens for your squad, including brilliant scientist Okeer (Krogan; died, but you get Grunt), brilliant scientist Mordin (Salarian), experienced fighter and biotic specialist Samara (Asari), brilliant tech expert Tali (Quarian), and experienced fighter Thane (Drell).

 

Heck, the Normandy SR-2 can have more aliens on board than the Normandy SR-1. And that even includes a mobile Geth platform, something you spent several months hunting down and destroying before your untimely meeting with the Collectors at the beginning of Mass Effect 1.

 

 

I could go on.

[God]

Sums up everything I think we've been trying to mention here.

 

I came off a bit more on the opposite end of him, but the premise is that we agree that it's quite a variable experience here.

 

Sans the idea of 'the end justifies the means', I agree entirely. Granted, my belief in 'EJtM' is a practical consideration more than a philosophical ideal. I have no problem being a diplomat if it gets me results.

 

That's what I think people should be concerned about. Results for problems, not ideals that lead to them.

[Dr. Rush]

Yeah, a lot of people forget how weird ME2 is compared to ME1. 

 

I have never been as excited for a game as I was for ME2, and that was entirely because of what ME1 had accomplished. Sadly, ME2 never lived up to ME1. Hell, the ME trilogy never lived up to ME1. I am not sure what made ME1 so special, it was just the right combination of ingredients that made it both a story-driven and an emergent narrative roleplaying game. A marriage of roleplaying mechanics and features that made the overall experience feel magical and wholly unique. 

 

I don't know what happened at Bioware during ME2's development. I don't think ME2 was rushed or anything like that, but I do think that they changed too much. They made the game more of an action-shooter and less of a roleplaying game. They chose to favor higher fidelity graphics over larger scale world. So we got really shiny and pretty shooting galleries that were a fraction of the size and scale of the areas in ME1.

 

They cut the customization, gear progression and skill progression systems of ME1 right off at the knees in ME2. I don't know why they chose to completely abandon those systems instead of just improving them. Its not like they were beyond improvement, it was such a brash and unnecessarily radical design choice that hindered ME2 and 3. 

 

Sadly, I don't think I'll ever have another experience like ME1. ME2 was their best chance and they decided to go in an entirely different direction away from what made ME1 so unique and special. 

[God]

I'm one of the people that utterly adored the direction and change in ME2. If anything, I think it more than delivered, it set the bar for the franchise as a whole. I can see where it might be narratively the weakest link in the story, but I don't entirely blame ME2 for that.

 

ME1 was fun for me, but really no different than any other strong RPG. ME2 is what drew me into the universe and made me care about what was going on.

[HTTP 404]

so much stress for a video game.  If it is not fun, don't play it.

[themikefest]

My femshep never worked for Cerberus. She worked with Cerberus to stop the collectors.

 

Remember what that clown Anderson  told Shepard? Its up to you to stop the reapers Shepard. What a disgrace. Turns his back to humanity, the galaxy and Shepard. Where's the renegade interrupt to shoot the clown?

 

Just like all the other ME1 characters. Made no effort to find a way to stop the reapers.

[sjsharp2011]

My femshep never worked for Cerberus. She worked with Cerberus to stop the collectors.
 
Remember what that clown Anderson  told Shepard? Its up to you to stop the reapers Shepard. What a disgrace. Turns his back to humanity, the galaxy and Shepard. Where's the renegade interrupt to shoot the clown?
 
Just like all the other ME1 characters. Made no effort to find a way to stop the reapers.

My shepards don't work for Cerberus. Cerberus follows Shepard's instructions Because the Lazarus team knows what Shepard's doing is right.

[Andrew Lucas]

Cerberus sucks.

[God]

The alliance and the Council suck more.

[God]

My shepards don't work for Cerberus. Cerberus follows Shepard's instructions Because the Lazarus team knows what Shepard's doing is right.

 

Which is why my Shepard's formally join Cerberus. They're willing to work with him, and he comes to view them as capable, if not necessarily trustworthy allies. He knows they aren't going to be straight with him, but he doesn't really care, because he agrees with their overall stance, and their methodology.

 

Sometimes, you have to do the extreme stuff, and set morality and ethics aside.

 

Unit 731 for example.

 

I consider it genius of us to bring those guys over to the States and instead of prosecuting them for War crimes. Their research and intellect was too valuable to be thrown away over indignant emotional rage.

 

Hell, the lead American researching officer said they found out some very useful things that we'd have never found out otherwise due to our scruples. Same with the Nazi's. We looked the other way when it was discovered that Von Braun had information on the Holocaust and was a bit more than just a 'helpless participant'.

 

As well we should. These people's intellect and discoveries are, to be blunt, more useful and valuable than our petty sense of justice. Ishii gave us valuable information on germ warfare and enhanced biological weapons studies by decades in the U.S. Von Braun put us on the moon. I'd say those accomplishments are worth more than the lives of some little people.

 

There's even talk that had Mengele been discovered by the U.S, we'd have kept quiet and had him brought to the U.S. to continue his research (albeit with more ethical constraints). And that was for a man who more or less used science as a pretext for unnecessary cruelty and brutality (which still... achieved results).

[Andrew Lucas]

cErBeRUS sTIll sUcKS, nOT as MuCH aS THe AlliANce tHO, but ThEY sUCk.

#CERBAncE.

[God]

Yep. Cerberus sucks the least!

[Andrew Lucas]

Just because they brought Space Jesus back, and the Alliance for locking him when they should've been preparing for the invasion.

So they suck, I would say equally because Cerberus came from the Alliance, but they brought Shep back and there's Miranda so...

[God]

Yep. 

 

Cerberus saved the galaxy.

 

It is ****** said.

[Andrew Lucas]

Not really, Cerberus almost f- everything countless times. They are like a three years old kid playing with a gun in the courtyard.

[God]

Not really, Cerberus almost f- everything countless times. They are like a three years old kid playing with a gun in the courtyard.

 

Not really. What are they supposed to do, not discover things? That's bull. There's no such thing as something that shouldn't be discovered or knowledge that 'we aren't meant to know'

[Andrew Lucas]

Not really. What are they supposed to do, not discover things? That's bull. There's no such thing as something that shouldn't be discovered or knowledge that 'we aren't meant to know'

Discovering things isn't a problem, but Cerberus keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again, they don't learn a single thing about it and lives goes to waste because of that.

Cerberus tries to get the job done, but 99% of the time, it backfires. So yeah, I wouldn't work for them.

[themikefest]

Discovering things isn't a problem, but Cerberus keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again, they don't learn a single thing about it and lives goes to waste because of that.

The same can be said about the Alliance. For 2 years they made no effort to find a way to stop the reapers and then lock up Shepard for 6 months while doing nothing and only cry for Shepard to do something when the reapers are at Earth's door step.