31 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Evidence number 1- Solas was near the temple. We can't know for sure his intentions but it is safe to assume that, unknowing of Corypheus' immortality, he intended to retrieve the Orb of Destruction after it caused the explosion and killed Corypheus.

Therefore, Fen'Harel expected that even the person holding the Orb would be killed by the explosion but the Inquisitor was not.

 

Evidence number 2- Corypheus had Grey Warden mages with him rather than Venatori. Therefore, it is logical to assume that he expected he would need a new body after the ritual was complete.

 

Evidence number 3- Corypheus says at Haven "I don't know how you survived."

Therefore, despite Corypheus knowing what the Anchor was and did, he still didn't know how the Inquisitor survived, the same applies to Solas.

Ergo, it is possible that it wasn't the Anchor that facilitated said survival. After all, the Inquisitor wouldn't know how to use it and if it activated by itself, how was the Divine protected as well?

 

Against this theory:

1- If Corypheus knew there would be an explosion and he brought the Wardens there specifically for this purpose, how did he expect to receive the Anchor since the body that would have been holding the Orb would have been killed? Therefore, it's logical that they were there simply as an insurance policy because he was surrounded by his enemies.

 

2-The Inquisitor survived by being sent into the Fade. Since the Anchor's purpose is to transport people physically into the Fade, it makes absolute sense it was what saved the Herald and Justinia.

 

In conclusion, even those who know what the Orb is and what it does have no idea how the Inquisitor survived.

So, it is possible an hereto unknown force shielded him from the blast. The Maker?

[Precursor Meta]

You already have counter arguments to your theory so you just proved that it wasn't the maker.

[MisterJB]

You already have counter arguments to your theory so you just proved that it wasn't the maker.

A counter argument doesn't automatically disprove a theory.

For instance, the second one.

"The Inquisitor survived by being sent into the Fade. Since that is precisely what the Anchor does, it makes sense it was what saved the Inquisitor."

 

However, to counter that, you can use evidence number 1. If Solas expected Corypheus to die, then he didn't expect the Anchor to save even the one holding the Orb. And who would know more about it than Fen'Harel?

 

[Draining Dragon]

You already have counter arguments to your theory so you just proved that it wasn't the maker.

That's not how logic works.

[Bigdoser]

Problem is Gaider said they will never confirm or deny that the maker exist's so its moot point from all that I have seen in the game I feel that he does not exist or he simply does not give a crap anymore. Just like you feel that he actually exists we will never know. 

[xJLxKing]

It's about faith. They give you enough lore and information for you to say that you believe in he maker through faith. think of it like real life, there is no scientific proof of God, yet people believe he is real, through faith. The devs are trying to draw the same scenario in the game

[Kantr]

A rift opened, you fell in while the explosion creating the breach killed everyone else. The Divine fell in as well.

[Dr. rotinaj]

I think it's very reasonable to suspect the Maker's involvement. It doesn't even have to be a force that shielded the Inquisitor from the blast, but just the act of surviving the events of Inquisition can be a sign of the Maker's involvement.The Maker is all about ambiguity and faith and I feel that Bioware really wants to have the fans actually wondering if the he is real. It's really difficult to pull this off in practice though because many events in the series that could be attributed to divine intervention are written off as standard video game tropes. Take for example the Inquisitor, they survived the conclave, went to the fade twice, closed the Breach, ended the mage rebellion and the orlesian civil war, killed Corypheus, and indirectly restored the Chantry. As a few companions mentioned, that kinda sounds like the Maker helped out a bit but then again it's a video game and the Inquisitor is the protagonist so they're supposed to do amazing things.

 

I always found it weird that the thought that the Maker is real isn't popular on the BSN. There are tons of theories regarding elven gods and old gods but their nature wasn't really explored until DAI. They were just as ambiguous as the Maker until Inquisition or maybe TME. Even if there isn't a Maker as the Chantry knows it, from what we've learned of the fade and spirits it's possible that Thedas created the Maker. The nightmare demon at adamant fed on the fear of the blight which made it very powerful. Who's to say that the Maker isn't a spirit of faith that feds on the international faith in the Maker? The Maker could be a very powerful spirit of faith that rarely interacts with mortals and when it does it does so indirectly and ambiguously.

 

As Gaider has said, they will never confirm the existence of the Maker. Which is cool as it should be a common topic of discussion and debate. Unfortunately most of the conversation falls into either "Maker is not real" category or some theory like "Dumat or Fen'Harel is the Maker." It's always refreshing to see a topic discussing the possibility of Maker's existence rather than refuting it or rationalizing it. Hopefully in the future, we'll see more coincidence vs providence type of events to fuel these discussions.

[The Baconer]

IMO, I don't really feel it does. I think being cast into the Fade, as you said, is what saved us from the energies of the Chaos Dunk.

[Shahadem]

There are perfectly logical explanations for the Inquisitor's survival that don't require divine intervention. Actually divine intervention to save the Inquisitor would only create more questions than it answered. Such as why? Why intervene to save the Inquisitor rather than just stopping Solus from giving the orb to Cory? Why would the Maker Blight the magisters who entered the Fade and thereby create untold suffering on Thedas?

 

The Maker would have to be a being of true Chaos who randomly chose to sometimes perform random good acts and sometimes perform random evil acts.

[Patchwork]

Problem is Gaider said they will never confirm or deny that the maker exist's so its moot point from all that I have seen in the game I feel that he does not exist or he simply does not give a crap anymore. Just like you feel that he actually exists we will never know. 

 

This annoys me, elven and dragon gods get to be used as plot devices/elements but because they made the Maker so much like christianity's less is more god the idea of the Maker wont be explored.  

 

It's a waste of an interesting idea. 

[AlexMBrennan]

No. Glad I could clear that up.

[Dieb]

*Cole Phelps voice* It'd take a smarter man than me to connect that.

[Iakus]

It's about faith. They give you enough lore and information for you to say that you believe in he maker through faith. think of it like real life, there is no scientific proof of God, yet people believe he is real, through faith. The devs are trying to draw the same scenario in the game

Pretty much this.

 

The evidence isn't supposed to be clear.  Reasonable arguments can be made for Maker interference, as well as for "right place, right time"

[Vicious]

it's up to the player.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

No, Solas is an observer, he observes the world so, would have been watching the conclave regardless. Wardens would have been invited to the conclave where as Venatori would not so, they were the people there that Cory could control to some degree at least. Of course the anchor let Quizzy live, but that thing is Elven, made by ancient elves. Justina was not protected- she died so that is an invalid point.

 

Simply put, Quizzy happened to grab the orb at the very moment it bestowed the Anchor and, so he got the anchor and that alone let him survive the conclave. Cory likely took one of the warden bodies, since we know he can claim a recently dead body and come back, or his dragon removed him before he died.

 

No Maker involved in my opinion but, that's the nature of the story, any event like that can be interpreted either way. For me gods are not all powerful beings nor physically immortal. Yes their spirits or souls live on in some form but, that's because to me, that is the energy of life and, energy cannot be created or destroyed. Same for anyone, the energy goes on whether consciousness does or not is debatable but, it seems to in the DA world. No god required, just physics and circumstance.

[D_Schattenjager]

Why would be Wardens be at a conclave of Mages and Templars? Doesn't make sense

[Almostfaceman]

Problem is Gaider said they will never confirm or deny that the maker exist's so its moot point from all that I have seen in the game I feel that he does not exist or he simply does not give a crap anymore. Just like you feel that he actually exists we will never know. 

 

Good point, BUT. Gaider's not in charge anymore. Besides, it still can be fun to hypothesize.

 

[Almostfaceman]

Pretty much this.

 

The evidence isn't supposed to be clear.  Reasonable arguments can be made for Maker interference, as well as for "right place, right time"

 

Annnd another good point!

 

[Ariella]

No, Solas is an observer, he observes the world so, would have been watching the conclave regardless. Wardens would have been invited to the conclave where as Venatori would not so, they were the people there that Cory could control to some degree at least. Of course the anchor let Quizzy live, but that thing is Elven, made by ancient elves. Justina was not protected- she died so that is an invalid point.

There's no reason for the Wardens to be there. What makes you think they were invited. Second, we see Justina dragged away from the IQ during that second memory in the Fade, with the implication she was alive and DIED at that point, not that she died in the explosion.
 

Simply put, Quizzy happened to grab the orb at the very moment it bestowed the Anchor and, so he got the anchor and that alone let him survive the conclave. Cory likely took one of the warden bodies, since we know he can claim a recently dead body and come back, or his dragon removed him before he died.
 
No Maker involved in my opinion but, that's the nature of the story, any event like that can be interpreted either way. For me gods are not all powerful beings nor physically immortal. Yes their spirits or souls live on in some form but, that's because to me, that is the energy of life and, energy cannot be created or destroyed. Same for anyone, the energy goes on whether consciousness does or not is debatable but, it seems to in the DA world. No god required, just physics and circumstance.

But we're not talking "for you", we're talking about the attributes the Maker has in the story. Since he is described as an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent being, the Maker doesn't see just the moment. In point of fact he would most likely see all possibilities and set things in motion long before the actual events would take place to make sure those he needed to be in place would be. It's very much a chessmaster analogy, but a good one.

So the possibility continues to exists even with the existence of other "gods" like Solas and company.

Here's a quote from Solas... Discussion the gods with Cassandra:

Solas: I know. I believe the elven gods existed, as did the old gods of Tevinter. But I do not think any of them were gods, unless you expand the definition of the word to the point of absurdity. I appreciate the idea of your Maker, a god that does not need to prove his power. I wish more such gods felt the same.

http://dragonage.wik...s_and_Cassandra

[Dai Grepher]

Good post. I think Solas gave the orb to Corypheus while he was in the form of a Grey Warden human mage. So Solas didn't know he was giving the orb to a darkspawn. Cory may have even been in the form of Larius or Jeneka still.

 

Solas expected everyone to die when the orb was unlocked.

 

Corypheus did not plan to live on through the nearby Grey Wardens. He knew they would die. They were just there to help him. Corypheus planned to survive the explosion with the anchor.

 

The player got the anchor instead, and that's why the player survives.

 

If there is anything else, then it was the spirit who helped the player survive.

 

It doesn't prove the Maker exists.

[Jester]

I kind of believe what the Chantry says.

The Maker exists, but does not interfere,

 

Maybe he's in truth a unique "Spirit of Indifference"?

 

The funny thing is, you cannot prove existence (or inexistence) of a god that does not manifest in any way, so all is left is faith (or lack thereof).

 

There's one other thing I wondered in a last couple of days:

We know that the Old Gods pressured Magisters to breach the Golden City. 

Now, we also know, that they were imprisoned deep beneth the earth (by Maker or whatever). 

We know, that the Old Gods did not became silent after the Second Sin - but now, they are speaking to Darkspawn, and not to men.

 

Now, obviously imprisonment did not prevent them from speaking to men, because they must have became prisoners BEFORE magisters breached the Golden City. So why are they speaking to Darkspawn now, and they are not speaking to their believers?

 

My theory is, that it happened, because Tevinters and Magisters were only tools. Tools to regaining their freedom and taking revenge at the Maker (by destroying his creation) for imprisoning them.

 

They knew what was in the Golden City. They knew, that opening it's doors will release the Taint upon the world. 

Magisters were played.

 

Old Gods released the Taint using their hands, became 'corrupted' (empowered) by it, and the spreading Taint gave them an infinite army of loyal, mindless minions. And they were immediately put to task of finding and freeing them. The most powerful among them, Dumat, was the first to be released, and with his new, infinite armies he almost succeeded in destroying the world.

 

Blights are therefore not the Maker's punishment - they are the tool of the Old Gods, meant to destroy His creation.

Now, the Maker himself must somehow have a limited ability or will to act... or he just cares about his creation as a whole, and not it's particular elements.

 

So he acts just enough (through intermediaries) to ensure that the world as a whole survives, but death of some (or millions) of people, doesn't really bother him.

Gotta be the Spirit of Indifference .