113 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

I don't know, Bioware wants to find a medium between Origins and DA2's gameplay as well as the changes they made in Inquisition 

 

It obviously does need some tweaks to get better

 

DAI was meant to be a melding of DAO and DA2, it ended up being something pretty different to both and worse. The article is actually wrong because each game in the franchise has been different enough that there is no definitive DA style. And in terms of core mechanics it actually  has changed further from DAO than DA2 did to its detriment.

 

But they arent good at it.

 

-Level Design is atrocious.

It seems they designed large open maps because that is in at the moment but with no idea of what actually should be in them and so in order for there to even be a reason to traverse these lands they filled them with shallow fetch quests.

[...]

Ultimately Dragon Age Inquisition feels like a very high budget game made by a bunch of amateurs.

 

I would add overall game design. 

[In Exile]

Of course it's flawed, there's no such thing as perfection. While its flaws need to be addressed, they are nonetheless both fewer and less significant than in its successors, however. 

 

Your assessment of Origins fans is also misplaced, given that most I've seen (including myself) are largely motivated by a desire to return to choice-based plots with varied solutions, in contrast with quests in DA II and, to some extent, Inquisition, in which combat is often the sole outcome of a quest.

 

Hold on a minute. What choice-based plots with varied solutions. All plots have either 1 or 2 solutions, with the very notable exception of the Landsmeet, and then only if you count HN noble marriage as an ending. 

[leaguer of one]

Of course it's flawed, there's no such thing as perfection. While its flaws need to be addressed, they are nonetheless both fewer and less significant than in its successors, however. 

 

Your assessment of Origins fans is also misplaced, given that most I've seen (including myself) are largely motivated by a desire to return to choice-based plots with varied solutions, in contrast with quests in DA II and, to some extent, Inquisition, in which combat is often the sole outcome of a quest.

And that's another thing...How is dai not a choice based plot? More choices in the game effect the result then the ones in dao. In fact all the choice in dai effect the long term development of thedus then any of the choice in dao out side of the god baby and who rules fereldin.  Saying you just want a choice based plot is baseless because dai is a choice base plot. Even more so the origin because the choices you make effect the direction Thedus develops.

[King Cousland]

Hold on a minute. What choice-based plots with varied solutions. All plots have either 1 or 2 solutions, with the very notable exception of the Landsmeet, and then only if you count HN noble marriage as an ending. 

 

Let's deal with the main quests:

 

• Broken Circle - primarily combat-based
• The Arl of Redcliffe  - three possible outcomes, none combat-based
• Nature of the Beast - two possible outcomes, one combat-based
• The Urn of Sacred Ashes - two possible outcomes, neither combat-based
• A Paragon of Her Kind - Four possible outcomes, two combat-based
• The Landsmeet - Four possible outcomes, none combat-based
• The Battle of Denerim - combat-based

If we're discussing the importance of the above outcomes, I suspect we would agree that one of Origins' flaws was an illusion of consequence rather than a material impact. However, it's beyond dispute, in my opinion, that possible solutions to quests in Origins were fare more varied than in either of its successors. 

 

 

And that's another thing...How is dai not a choice based plot? More choices in the game effect the result then the ones in dao. In fact all the choice in dai effect the long term development of thedus then any of the choice in dao out side of the god baby and who rules fereldin.  Saying you just want a choice based plot is baseless because dai is a choice base plot. Even more so the origin because the choices you make effect the direction Thedus develops.

 

I address most of this above, but I'd point out that the consequence of choices in Inquisition was about on the same level as with Origins. Changes were primarily cosmetic and dealt with through an epilogue slideshow. I actually quite liked the epilogue slides in both Origins and Inquisition, but a truly unique, branching narrative occurring from player choice is crucial moving forward. 

 

I'd be interested to know, however, how on earth you know the future impact of choices made in Inquisition? I'll concede this is true for the choice of Divine and who rules Orlais, but I think the importance of most other choices is, as of yet, unclear. 

[leaguer of one]

Let's deal with the main quests:

 

• Broken Circle - primarily combat-based
• The Arl of Redcliffe  - three possible outcomes, none combat-based
• Nature of the Beast - two possible outcomes, one combat-based
• The Urn of Sacred Ashes - two possible outcomes, neither combat-based
• A Paragon of Her Kind - Four possible outcomes, two combat-based
• The Landsmeet - Four possible outcomes, none combat-based
• The Battle of Denerim - combat-based

If we're discussing the importance of the above outcomes, I suspect we would agree that one of Origins' flaws was an illusion of consequence rather than a material impact. However, it's beyond dispute, in my opinion, that possible solutions to quests in Origins were fare more varied than in either of its successors. 

And  only 2 of them effect the result of the game. Seriously, what it the point of choice if it has no effect? And it's not like dai have choices like this added they have effect.

[Aren]

Hold on a minute. What choice-based plots with varied solutions. All plots have either 1 or 2 solutions, with the very notable exception of the Landsmeet, and then only if you count HN noble marriage as an ending. 

Some minor side quest of DAO have multiple solutions like the one of  Gamlen---Gheyna at the Dalish camp some of that solutions depends on your gender and level of persuasion.

Or even the one of  Connor at Redclieffe

[In Exile]

And that's another thing...How is dai not a choice based plot? More choices in the game effect the result then the ones in dao. In fact all the choice in dai effect the long term development of thedus then any of the choice in dao out side of the god baby and who rules fereldin.  Saying you just want a choice based plot is baseless because dai is a choice base plot. Even more so the origin because the choices you make effect the direction Thedus develops.

 

DA:O has four large scale choices: Landsmeet, Orzammar (King and Anvil), and (at the time) DR. The potential Annulment at Kinloch (or imprisonment at Aonar) has some scope but it's completely isolated to the Circles at most and has no reverberation. Same with the choice over the Dalish clan. 

 

DA:I has four large scale choices: Templars vs. Mages, Ruler of Orlais, Grey Wardens in the South, and the Well of Sorrows. 

 

DA:I took into account the criticism that the flavour choices in DA2 shouldn't be in unless they have consequences, despite the fact that this is exactly what DA:O did too. But there was hate, so Bioware cut one of my favourite features. 

[leaguer of one]

DA:O has four large scale choices: Landsmeet, Orzammar (King and Anvil), and (at the time) DR. The potential Annulment at Kinloch (or imprisonment at Aonar) has some scope but it's completely isolated to the Circles at most and has no reverberation. Same with the choice over the Dalish clan. 

 

DA:I has four large scale choices: Templars vs. Mages, Ruler of Orlais, Grey Wardens in the South, and the Well of Sorrows. 

 

DA:I took into account the criticism that the flavour choices in DA2 shouldn't be in unless they have consequences, despite the fact that this is exactly what DA:O did too. But there was hate, so Bioware cut one of my favourite features. 

Exactly. Why are people say they want a game of choice like origin when choice matter less then and more in dai?

[In Exile]

Let's deal with the main quests:

 

• Broken Circle - primarily combat-based
• The Arl of Redcliffe  - three possible outcomes, none combat-based
• Nature of the Beast - two possible outcomes, one combat-based
• The Urn of Sacred Ashes - two possible outcomes, neither combat-based
• A Paragon of Her Kind - Four possible outcomes, two combat-based
• The Landsmeet - Four possible outcomes, none combat-based
• The Battle of Denerim - combat-based

If we're discussing the importance of the above outcomes, I suspect we would agree that one of Origins' flaws was an illusion of consequence rather than a material impact. However, it's beyond dispute, in my opinion, that possible solutions to quests in Origins were fare more varied than in either of its successors. 

 

If we're doing it this way, then we can absolutely count DA:I the same way.

 

1) Templars vs. Mags, 2 choices with 2 subchoices, for a total of four possible outcomes.

2) Orlais: Three choices of rulers with multiple companions (G alone, G&E, C alone, C&E, C,E, & G, each with unique impacts) for five possible outcomes.

3) GWs: Four outcomes  

4) Well: Two outcomes. 

 

DA:O had more main quests, but they were not more varied.  And the DA:I choices are far more important than the DA:O choices, as I said. And if you want me to format it the same as the your list:

 

1) Wrath of Heaven - Combat

2) Hushed/Campions - Four possible outcomes, with the added and unique difference that these are two separate and fully realized questlines, nothing like this existing in DA:O. 

3) In Your Heart - Combat (but it is notable in how unlike DA:O there's reactivity to your previous plot choice)

4) Abyss - Four outcomes

5) Wicked Hearts - Five outcomes, with the added bonus of diverce. 

6) Pride - Two outcomes

7) Doom - Combat

 

That suddenly trumps DA:O. 

 

Edit: Forgot to count Hawke vs. GW. Also you forgot to count the DR for Denerim. It's not just combat. My count is that's 2 outcomes (US vs. DR). 

[Super Drone]

To defuse this next preferential debate, aren't both of you basically guilty as charged?

 

If it's any help, my favourite happens to be the one mocked in your signature. I also hate neither; I just think if you both joined forces to destroy me, there could be love.

 

Sorry, I liked DA2 the best as well. I liked combat in DAI better, but preferred DA2's story.

[Vilegrim]

And that's another thing...How is dai not a choice based plot? More choices in the game effect the result then the ones in dao. In fact all the choice in dai effect the long term development of thedus then any of the choice in dao out side of the god baby and who rules fereldin.  Saying you just want a choice based plot is baseless because dai is a choice base plot. Even more so the origin because the choices you make effect the direction Thedus develops.

Very restricted choices, no option to powergrab that has a result different from not doing so (you can claim to do something for your own power, but the result is the same no matter why you did something or in a few cases, apparently what you did)

[King Cousland]

And  only 2 of them effect the result of the game. Seriously, what it the point of choice if it has no effect? And it's not like dai have choices like this added they have effect.

 

Go back and reread what I wrote, since you obviously couldn't be bothered the first time. 

 

If we're doing it this way, then we can absolutely count DA:I the same way.

 

1) Templars vs. Mags, 2 choices with 2 subchoices, for a total of four possible outcomes.

2) Orlais: Three choices of rulers with multiple companions (G alone, G&E, C alone, C&E, C,E, & G, each with unique impacts) for five possible outcomes.

3) GWs: Four outcomes  

4) Well: Two outcomes. 

 

DA:O had more main quests, but they were not more varied. You're just wrong. And the DA:I choices are far more important than the DA:O choices, as I said. And if you want me to format it the same as the your list:

 

1) Wrath of Heaven - Combat

2) Hushed/Campions - Four possible outcomes, with the added and unique difference that these are two separate and fully realized questlines, nothing like this existing in DA:O. 

3) In Your Heart - Combat

4) Abyss - Four outcomes

5) Wicked Hearts - Five outcomes

6) Pride - Two outcomes

7) Doom - Combat

 

That suddenly trumps DA:O. 

 

Edit: Forgot to count Hawke vs. GW. 

 

Fair enough. As I said in my original post, however, this is less of a problem in Inquisition than in DA II. 

[In Exile]

Very restricted choices, no option to powergrab that has a result different from not doing so (you can claim to do something for your own power, but the result is the same no matter why you did something or in a few cases, apparently what you did)

 

You can't powergrab in DA:O either. You can, as a male noble, beg Anora to give you some minor thread of power or try to influence Alistair. This is before the GWs gift Amaranthine. As a female noble, you can marry Alistair and try to rule through/with him. That's it. That's all the power grabbing you can do.

There are very minor evil choices you can make for petty power, but that's different. 

[AlanC9]

A Paragon of Her Kind - Four possible outcomes, two combat-based

I'm having a brain freeze here. What are the combat-based outcomes?

[leaguer of one]

I'm having a brain freeze here. What are the combat-based outcomes?

Who keeps the anvil.

[Vilegrim]

You can't powergrab in DA:O either. You can, as a male noble, beg Anora to give you some minor thread of power or try to influence Alistair. This is before the GWs gift Amaranthine. As a female noble, you can marry Alistair and try to rule through/with him. That's it. That's all the power grabbing you can do.

There are very minor evil choices you can make for petty power, but that's different.

Except they didn't feel minor, which inq What should be world changing choices don't feel like they change anything, and I can't put my finger on why they feel so empty. It maybe because the inq feels so blandly 'good' that any choice that even tries to not be ends up being ignored by companions... I can't make myself do another playthru to confirm this, the game just feels to black and white to bother

[leaguer of one]

Except they didn't feel minor, which inq What should be world changing choices don't feel like they change anything, and I can't put my finger on why they feel so empty. It maybe because the inq feels so blandly 'good' that any choice that even tries to not be ends up being ignored by companions... I can't make myself do another playthru to confirm this, the game just feels to black and white to bother

You control the people who control the most powerful nation of thedus, you control all the mages or templars in thedus, you have the the warden order under your thumb and you don't feel your power grabing? Added what you pick changed the view of mages and/or templers, how orlais is rules and acts in the future and how people feel about the wardens and how the chantry is rebuild. Those are huge changes

[Aaleel]

As different as the first two games were what exactly defines a Dragon Age game?

[Ashagar]

The setting I believe. all dragon age games take place in thadas during the dragon age, the age of change, when things though long gone and lost return and the world is in flux.

[Squeets]

 

And a good start to Dragon Age 4 would be to hire some proper Animators,Writers,Modellers and obviously Level Design and environmental Artists 

What?

 

I agree the writing may have been weak at points, but the other things?  This game has some of the best environments, models, and animation I have ever seen in games?

 

Made even more impressive by the fact that the game actually runs well on PC despite what most idiots who try to run the game on their three year old laptops say.  My PC is nearly two years old and I easily max this game out and it looks great.  Unlike quite literally every other PC port that has happened from every other publisher this year (cough cough primarily Ubisoft cough).

[Neon Rising Winter]

Except they didn't feel minor, which inq What should be world changing choices don't feel like they change anything, and I can't put my finger on why they feel so empty. It maybe because the inq feels so blandly 'good' that any choice that even tries to not be ends up being ignored by companions... I can't make myself do another playthru to confirm this, the game just feels to black and white to bother

 

It's the impotency of having too much power. For all the tromping around getting in fights, you're not leading a bunch of misfits and lowlifes this time, you're leading a major political and military force (with the help of a bunch of misfits and lowlifes admittedly). You are surrounded by an entire bureaucracy designed to ensure you do not move the world into a state where this organisation cannot function. Your carefree days of random acts of malice are a thing of the past. It's the gaming equivalent of getting a mortgage.

[Elista]

I am not bothered by the differences between the 3 games. On the contrary, I like change and I think it is necessary when you deal with different stories, even if the universe is the same. Change means risk and mistakes, but I prefer some flaws rather than playing the same game over and over. IMHO, it is a Dragon Age game if it is a RPG that takes place in Thedas during the Dragon Age. Nothing more

[Raoni Luna]

Bla bla bla... no stats on level up, only one specialization... skip the game, never buy Bioware again.

I realized I spent too much time talking about things that do not matter.

When Bioware offer me the chance to become a dancer (bard) or a monk again I bother with their games.

When it comes to Thedas, a cleric of June would work too (craft master)

And please let me screw my builds, you made a game where whatever I do, it works wonderfully well, you can't do anything wrong in this oversimplified ****, and yes I'm serious about it

[Ncongruous]

What?
 
I agree the writing may have been weak at points, but the other things?  This game has some of the best environments, models, and animation I have ever seen in games?
 
Made even more impressive by the fact that the game actually runs well on PC despite what most idiots who try to run the game on their three year old laptops say.  My PC is nearly two years old and I easily max this game out and it looks great.  Unlike quite literally every other PC port that has happened from every other publisher this year (cough cough primarily Ubisoft cough).

 

I'll say that they certainly don't need their job security threatened over it. The environments are pretty and varied. But animations are... well, some times during cutscenes they are more jarring to me than anything else could be.

 

Jou checking out my 'ceps THEE Iron Bull? *hic*

Spoiler

[Mocksie]

DA:I to me, felt like the Dragon Age franchise and Skyrim had a baby that was named Inquisition. 

 

I personally didn't like the Skyrimy feel of DA:I. I did see it as a Dragon Age game, but it definitely had a different overall feel from DA:O and DA2.

 

I like Skyrim for what it is, an exploration, freedom, sandbox type of game. I generally love open-world games that have seemingly endless option. However, I don't think that style works for Dragon Age. It is blatantly obvious that the devs were trying to take a page from Skyrim with the open world and seemingly endless sidequests, but that distracted from what most fans love the Dragon Age games for - the story and character interactions. 

 

I liked DA:I, but I do agree with the article that it definitely doesn't feel the same as previous DA games. It has the lowest replayability of all three games for me (I've even replayed DA2 4-5 times, wheres with DAI I stopped halfway though my second playthrough). And it is severely lacking in the story element that Bioware games are praised for.

 

I personally hope the next DA game goes back to how it was done in Origins in terms of how zones and exploration is done. All of the zones are different, unique, and fun to explore, but they are not open world (DA:I), nor are the repeated (DA2). This would allow them with enough resources to actually build more of a story, but would not create the same problem with repeating zones we saw in DA2.