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[DanteYoda]

The Future of Dragon Age: Is Inquisition A Worthy Framework To Follow?

 

No..

[Bayonet Hipshot]

No. 

 

Dragon Age Origins is a worthy framework to follow. 

[NaclynE]

So, the subject came up in another thread, and I think its a good enough question that people should all hop in on it.

 

Dragon Age as a franchise has had little consistency between titles. Dragon Age Origins set the expected framework for the franchise in the minds of many, but Dragon Age 2 released soon after and changed many a thing. Radically different that it was, its reception wasn't entirely positive. Knowing this, Bioware aimed to change things up again, and several years later came Dragon Age Inquisition. Inquisition has been doing better than its immediate predecessor, but the question should be posed-

 

Is Dragon Age Inquisition a worthy framework for the Dragon Age franchise to connect with and should the Dragon Age development team continue building games around that framework?

 

Inquisition has some qualities that neither of its predecessors had, while taking a few of the old and changing them. Inquisition has its flaws, but flaws can be worked upon and improved to the point of being enjoyable positives, rather than being scrapped and replaced for something different entirely.

 

Should Inquisition be the style of Dragon Age game that Bioware makes from this point forward? Should Bioware continue to change things up, not really having a consistent style of game for the DA franchise?

 

What sorts of evolutions should be made? What framework would you more readily accept if Inquisition isn't quite fitting?

 

Lay down some thoughts.

 

Well all I can say is if BIOWARE can continue spending time developing games like how DA 2 went to DAI I am cool with that. Good games take time. What killed me for DAO/DAA to DA 2 was that DA 2 came out to quick and felt rushed.

 

Also what I think people don't understand is the team responsible for DAO/DAA and DA 2 changed. They were done by different teams (EDGE OF REALITY who did DAO/DAA but didn't do DA 2). I felt with the team change things kind of got a bit lost so DAI seems like it was trying to fix DA 2's oopses. If a consistant team can stick to making the franchise I am very down with following the franchise. I just would hate to see another XENOSAGA where the team of the first one started leaving after the first one and then more members left after the second one. went from 50% to 75% for all three games. It seemed like more and more stuff got lost which made great characters from the first game stink by the third game.  

[ESTAQ99]

 

We must have planned different skyrims 

 

Everytime I read one of your posts, I'm left with the feeling that you are a Bioware employee pretending to be a fan. 

[AresKeith]

Everytime I read one of your posts, I'm left with the feeling that you are a Bioware employee pretending to be a fan. 

 

 

[leaguer of one]

Everytime I read one of your posts, I'm left with the feeling that you are a Bioware employee pretending to be a fan. 

So we can kill whom ever we want, do want ever we want in a massive sandbox where you can steal anything if you have a bucket? Because that's the skyrim I've played.

DAI it's just a massive 3d bulder's gate.

[DragonKingReborn]

With regards to the OP;

For me, it would depend on how broad the template is.

Aesthetically, I think the game is beautiful. You can make make a variety of characters both good and bad looking, whatever takes your fancy (let's not discuss hairstyles). The areas for the most part, look bewilderingly good. The speed of the combat animations is just about perfect; they have slowed down somewhat from DA2, but are faster the Origins while retaining the weight of Origins combat.

For gameplay, the if>then tactics need to make a return. The so-called tactics screen in Inquisition made me grind my teeth most of the way through my first play through. Mounts were an interesting addition, but unless our companions can mount up with us and we can interact with stuff (collect materials, loot containers etc) , I'd be tempted to do away with them. Don't want/need mounted combat, just think that if you are going to go to the trouble of including mounts, y might want to consider ways to encourage the player to use them. Outside of the western approach/hissing wastes, I never used my horse and never bothered trying to get more mounts (although one showed up due to a war table mission).

Story/companions/antagonist is a YMMV kind of thing. I really liked how the game made me feel powerful and important. There is a place for the classic/cliched/trope/whatever story of ancient evil threatens world and you are the only one that can stop it. As long as that isn't the story every time, I've got no problem with it. The companions were all brilliantly written and acted, that template needs to be graven in stone.

Quest design....well, here is where Inquisition falls apart (for me, anyway). I have no real helpful feedback beyond, "please revert to Origins/DA2 quest design. The main quests were all great, felt like world shaping events...and then I went and collected some elfroot for a healer and found someone's wedding ring. I don't mind fetch quest per se, but there really were a lot of them. I also felt the over abundance of Power as a reward harmed the mechanic of using Power to advance the story. I mentioned this in another thread, but perhaps instead of getting 1 or 2 Power per camp or per fade rift, we instead got that Power when completing "holding the hinterlands"or "rifts on the plains" etc.

[LPPrince]

Everytime I read one of your posts, I'm left with the feeling that you are a Bioware employee pretending to be a fan. 

 

I assure you that AresKeith is ONE OF US, ONE OF US

 

Not an employee of Bioware.

[LPPrince]

Quest design....well, here is where Inquisition falls apart (for me, anyway). I have no real helpful feedback beyond, "please revert to Origins/DA2 quest design. The main quests were all great, felt like world shaping events...and then I went and collected some elfroot for a healer and found someone's wedding ring. I don't mind fetch quest per se, but there really were a lot of them. I also felt the over abundance of Power as a reward harmed the mechanic of using Power to advance the story. I mentioned this in another thread, but perhaps instead of getting 1 or 2 Power per camp or per fade rift, we instead got that Power when completing "holding the hinterlands"or "rifts on the plains" etc.

 

I think the power system should either be reworked and better disguised or removed entirely.

 

It reminds me of ME3 when we had to get a certain score to succeed;that number shouldn't really be visible to the player I think, given its story significance.

 

Stat numbers are fine, but numbers within the narrative are a bit odd.

[DragonKingReborn]

I think the power system should either be reworked and better disguised or removed entirely.
 
It reminds me of ME3 when we had to get a certain score to succeed;that number shouldn't really be visible to the player I think, given its story significance.
 
Stat numbers are fine, but numbers within the narrative are a bit odd.

Removing it altogether would also work.

[Vicious]

Yes, it's a good game, absolutely a worthy framework to follow, just like Origins was.

 

I don't like comparing the two. In a simple side by side comparison, Inquisition dominates.

 

Origins has a different plot which is about taste, but other than that it has less of almost everything. Although it had tactics so your NPCs can overcome their terrible AI to help you crush opposition easier, which i kinda miss.

 

And the playable origins themselves, which were great and i miss as well, but honestly when the veneer wore off you realized that they were not all created equally, some would tie directly into a primary villain in the main plot (human noble) while others would get a one and done scene and not be referred back to (dalish elf) 

 

 

 

Funny how people call Inquisition an MMO, i fully remember Origins being directly and negatively compared to world of warcraft and other MMOs when it was released.

 

The more things change the more they stay the same.

[DanteYoda]

Everytime I read one of your posts, I'm left with the feeling that you are a Bioware employee pretending to be a fan. 

My opinions exactly or maybe family.

 

 

So we can kill whom ever we want, do want ever we want in a massive sandbox where you can steal anything if you have a bucket? Because that's the skyrim I've played.

DAI it's just a massive 3d bulder's gate.

Freedom is good, you sound like Freedom to do whatever you like in a game is bad?

 

That is why Skyrim was Awesome, you could do just about anything and play..

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Nope. DAO is the worthy framework and I get the feeling it will be till the series ends sadly.

[Queen Rowan]

Origins cared more about the plot and character development while Inquisition cared more about the beautiful open world. Both were awesome features, but Bioware is known for its story telling. I would take that over a large world any day. It's why I became a DA fan in the first place. The other thing is that there's a difference between having a beautiful world that compliments the story and a beautiful world that is as large as it can possibly be to promote that its the largest DA game yet and then have it not really go with the game at all save for a few side quests and countless "fetch quests". It's really sad because I think that the companions in DAI had the potential to be the best companions yet and due to the focus on a large world, I felt like they were maybe acquaintances by the end of the game. In comparison, the companions in DAO became my best friend, my husband, my mother, my grandmother, my brother, my sister, etc. I felt like I knew the ins and outs of them and didn't think anything was lacking by the end of the game. Those companions are still the only returning people I look forward to seeing as cameos. I swear warden Alistair in DAI had almost as much if not the same amount of screen time as any of the companions in DAI. DA2 got a lot of hate after it came out, but it's story was actually very in depth, interesting, and moving. Inquisition's wasn't. I liked the game, it wasn't bad, but it was seriously lacking in the place where DA games are supposed to be the strongest all because instead of sticking to the franchise's roots, it tried to fit the recent popular mold of open-world games. So no DAI is not a good framework for future games. It's potential is, but the final game itself isn't.

[DuskWanderer]

Ugh, I hate watching the Origins fanboys. 

 

As a published writer, I can flat out tell you that a story isn't for everyone. Story-telling might be someone's hat, but you can't win on that alone, otherwise, you'd just buy a book. Video games are a medium that requires things such as graphics, sound, and gameplay. 

 

Origins, while a solid game, became repetitive really fast, and the story drug on too long. Only Redcliffe and the Landsmeet were the right length: The dwarf, elf, and Sacred Ashes quests went on too long, and the Fade quest for the mages was awful for other reasons. By contrast, Inquisition, with it's decentralized nature, allowed one to stop. That has the risk of stopping forever, but not if you can captivate.

 

But you can't rely on story. Many people didn't care for Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts because the characters were grating. Others didn't like some of the party members. All of that is story, and all of that can arouse ire. You need more. The formula can only work for so long, and Origins, just like the first Mass Effect and KoToR, followed BioWARE's standard formula. It needed to change.  

[timebean]

Ugh, I hate watching the Origins fanboys. 

 

As a published writer, I can flat out tell you that a story isn't for everyone. Story-telling might be someone's hat, but you can't win on that alone, otherwise, you'd just buy a book. Video games are a medium that requires things such as graphics, sound, and gameplay. 

 

Origins, while a solid game, became repetitive really fast, and the story drug on too long. Only Redcliffe and the Landsmeet were the right length: The dwarf, elf, and Sacred Ashes quests went on too long, and the Fade quest for the mages was awful for other reasons. By contrast, Inquisition, with it's decentralized nature, allowed one to stop. That has the risk of stopping forever, but not if you can captivate.

 

But you can't rely on story. Many people didn't care for Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts because the characters were grating. Others didn't like some of the party members. All of that is story, and all of that can arouse ire. You need more. The formula can only work for so long, and Origins, just like the first Mass Effect and KoToR, followed BioWARE's standard formula. It needed to change.  

I think what Queen Rowan was getting at was a lack of depth in the overall story in DAI versus DAO.  Whatever the formula is for writing an in-depth, awesome story that makes any game a good game should not be lost to make room for better graphics and more fetch quests. If that is the case, and the direction they wish to go, that is fine.  But many people are Bioware fans because of those deep stories.

 

In my personal opinion, the story in DAI was fine.  But my interaction as the Inquisitor within that story was not as deep as in DAO, where I actually had multiple ways to solve problems and more depth with how I related to the other characters. It could be that DAO just had "better" writing (but, as you say, that is all personal preference, so hard to gauge).  However, the way in which the player integrated into that story has to do with game mechanics, which directly addresses the OP's question.  The framework of DAI is a story in which the protagonist is merely along for the ride in many respects, and thus feels less like and RPG and more like something else. I would argue that this game is actually more like a book and less like an RPG (but again, just my opinion).

 

I DO, however, agree that that something needed to change from DAO, or else we would just have the same old game over and over.  The problem is, the gameplay was terrible, the fetch quests boring, and RPG aspect lukewarm.  Thus, I hope they keep working on the framework and find a good balance between the elements.

 

 I am also a "DAO fanboy" and proud of it.  It is the reason I (and I would imagine, many people) purchased this game in the first place.

[Personette]

A lot of the complaints I see about DA:I amount to the same thing--a general sense that the player's choices didn't sufficiently impact the environment or the plot. 

 

I loved it. Of the three Dragon Age games, it's my favorite by a wide margin. I thought the story was great (although at some point I started to cringe when the AI characters would pull me aside to tell me how special I was) & the companions were an interesting mix--I think that creating companion characters who play against type goes a long way towards making them feel like individuals rather than stock characters (I mean, for example: Varric is a surface dwarf who doesn't have a beard--he rejects traditional dwarven culture but often reveals himself to be well versed in it & clearly maintains many relationships with Orzammar dwarves). The romances were leagues better than in earlier games. 

 

On the other hand, I messed up my first playthrough because I couldn't figure out where I was supposed to be when & this ended up causing me problems (I did Adamant fortress at level 18 & it was not thrilling). There were a couple plot points that turned out to be important that confused or bewildered me (I had no idea who Briala was or why she was important until I started reading guides; Leliana's double-hardening). 

 

And, yeah. I agree with that nugget of criticism that I see popping up in different ways all over the place. I wish I had been able to make more impactful choices. The game wanted me to feel like I could decide the fate of the world but I never felt like I was deciding anything. I felt like I was a passenger in this story & it was really enjoyable, but I never felt like I was driving the car. 

[Queen Rowan]

Ugh, I hate watching the Origins fanboys. 

 

 

Actually, I'm a DAO fanGIRL and proud of it! I'm also a DA2 fangirl and a DAI fangirl. I was under the impression that the forums were a place for fans to express their opinions and constructive criticisms, and I'm sorry if that offends you. 

[Vicious]

Hissing Wastes is a good example of a zone that combines exploration and Bioware's storytelling, the tale told in the ruins you discover and explore is quite interesting when you piece it together. Of course most people seemed to go 'wow a big desert derp there's nothing here' and leave.

[timebean]

Hissing Wastes is a good example of a zone that combines exploration and Bioware's storytelling, the tale told in the ruins you discover and explore is quite interesting when you piece it together. Of course most people seemed to go 'wow a big desert derp there's nothing here' and leave.

I actually agree with this.  Hissing Wastes was one of my favorite areas because the story was interesting (though I know some folks hated it).  However, there is only one way to solve that story.  In the old DAO framework, you might kill guards to enter a tomb, or threaten them to get the key, or steal the key from researcher, or convince them that you need to be part of the dig, or have one of your companions dress up as an archeologist to gain access to a tomb.  In DAI, this story, albeit an interesting one, is entirely linear. Once you play through the story of Hissing wastes, there is no reason to do it again.  It will play out exactly the same.

 

I apologize if I keep hammering away at this same idea, but it is a key problem with the DAI framework.  The story actually is pretty good...hell, maybe it's even better than DAO.  But it is linear and lacks depth from the point of view of the player.  Why am I here?  How do I affect the world? 

 

Even the desisions we do get have little impact.  I chose the templars...and still ended up fighting red templars at every turn (just like when I sided with mages).  It felt like the only desisions that actually drastically changed anything in the world were those I imported form the keep.  Alistair versus Stroud as warden was quite different, for example. 

 

Video game stories differ from books because you get to be a character in them.  I was not a character in this game as much as in DAO.  That is the story aspect that I think needs to return. Hence, my reason for expressing my dislike of this new framework in comparison to DAO. (Also, I miss spell combos, but that is just a mage thing)

 

As per usual, just my personal opinion, and I realize not everyone feels the same. There are some bright moments in DAI.  I played it several times, and did a massive completionist playthrough as one of those. However,  I would not knowingly purchase a game like this again because it just wasn't fun for me personally compared to games with seemingly deeper choices/consequences.  I hope that that aspect changes in future DA games.

[Draining Dragon]

Ugh, I hate watching the Origins fanboys.

As a published writer, I can flat out tell you that a story isn't for everyone. Story-telling might be someone's hat, but you can't win on that alone, otherwise, you'd just buy a book. Video games are a medium that requires things such as graphics, sound, and gameplay.

Origins, while a solid game, became repetitive really fast, and the story drug on too long. Only Redcliffe and the Landsmeet were the right length: The dwarf, elf, and Sacred Ashes quests went on too long, and the Fade quest for the mages was awful for other reasons. By contrast, Inquisition, with it's decentralized nature, allowed one to stop. That has the risk of stopping forever, but not if you can captivate.

But you can't rely on story. Many people didn't care for Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts because the characters were grating. Others didn't like some of the party members. All of that is story, and all of that can arouse ire. You need more. The formula can only work for so long, and Origins, just like the first Mass Effect and KoToR, followed BioWARE's standard formula. It needed to change.

Story is not the only thing Origins had going for it I enjoyed the combat, characters, dialogue, and soundtrack of Origins far more than I enjoyed those things in Inquisition. As for the graphics: Inquisition might have had better textures, but the animations were wonky, both in combat and in conversation.

Call it nostalgic fanboying all you want, but for me, Origins still remains a more immersive, more intense, more satisfying experience.

[Sanunes]

I am new to this thread and just replying to the OP incase there has been any clarifications.

 

I think the basic framework they have for the game works for on many basic levels the game reminds me of both Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins.  Of course there are areas that need improvement for I would have liked more zones to be like The Fallow Mire over The Hinterlands, never understanding what the Shard collection was fully about besides just collecting things, or thinking a lot of the second quests could be much better with a little more NPC interaction.  I just think improvement would make a far better next game then completely going back to the design phase.

Modifié par Sanunes, 23 février 2015 - 03:41 .

[Shelled]

No. DA2 was terrible and so is this. They should drop it entirely unless the origins people who left decide to come back to work for bioware and I don't see that happening anytime soon when EA is trying to dumb down everything in sight.

I suggest moving on from this IP to this instead https://swordcoast.com/ (made by director who did origins, and other old-school bioware devs, they all left after origins) The people who developed da2 and inquisition have no idea what they're doing and none of them really worked on the older games at all which is where all the bioware magic was in the first place.

I'm done with bioware all together at this point. EA is in complete control. It makes me angry and saddens me at the same time.

[Vicious]

No. DA2 was terrible and so is this. They should drop it entirely unless the origins people who left decide to come back to work for bioware and I don't see that happening anytime soon when EA is trying to dumb down everything in sight.

I suggest moving on from this IP to this instead https://swordcoast.com/ (made by director who did origins, and other old-school bioware devs, they all left after origins) The people who developed da2 and inquisition have no idea what they're doing and none of them really worked on the older games at all which is where all the bioware magic was in the first place.

I'm done with bioware all together at this point. EA is in complete control. It makes me angry and saddens me at the same time.

 

 

pfff, every single time i have seen 'old developers from super popular game get back together' it has resulted in little more than money grabs based off name and nostalgia brand recognition, so pardon me while i steer clear.

[Vicious]

I like how DA2 is no longer the 'so bad i will never play a bioware game again' game.