35 réponses à ce sujet

[Bad King]

There are rather large inconsistencies regarding Solas and his views on elves:

 

Inconsistency Number One

Following the quest in the Winter Palace he has this to say:

 

"Our people? Who are- oh, you mean elves! I'm sorry, I was confused. I do not consider myself to have much in common with the elves."

 

In this same conversation, when the Inquisitor suggests he should do more to help elves, he irritably asks (with irony) whether he should skulk around in the Dales mourning his lost heritage. And yet this is exactly what he does in the Dales! Here are some quotes:

 

At the Emerald Graves: "My people built a life here. It must have been something to see."

 

Conversation with Sera in the Dales:

Solas: Our people used to be here.

Sera: Pfft, you say that everywhere.

Solas: It is more true than you want to believe.

Sera: I bet right? Who wants to think about stepping on dead elves?

Solas: Din elvhen emma him?

Sera: Oh you felt that one.

 

There are further examples of Solas expressing his kinship with modern elves:

 

1). Elf specific dialogue regarding the orb wielded by Corypheus:

"The orb he carried? It is ours."

"...we must prepare for their reaction, when they learn the orb is of our people." 

In this conversation he repeatedly uses the word our ("...our people", "...our gods", "...our pantheon") suggesting that he feels kinship with the elven inquisitor (whom he refers to as lethallin which is often used as an elven kinship term).

 

2). He also considers Sera one of his people, attempting to speak to her in elvish:

"I'd hoped, well, our people can sometimes feel the rhythm of the language despite lacking the vocabulary."

 

Inconsistency Number Two

A second inconsistency is his statement that Dorian's 'nostalgia' for the ancient elves is 'pointless' and 'romanticised' and that Arlathan was no more innocent than the Tevinter Imperium. And yet it is Solas who waxes nostalgic about the ancient elves when you ask him about it, and he also expresses contempt towards the Imperium which was built "on the bones of [his] people."

 

So, was Solas written by multiple people or does the Dread Wolf (being a trickster god) simply lack a solid personality?

[Addai]

I think he's conflicted because of his disappointment with what has happened to the elves, and because he feels partially responsible for it. He's written off modern elves because he doesn't believe he can do anything for them. The ones trapped behind the mirrors, those he might still help. My interpretation, anyway.

You might find these videos interesting.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiYwZHeln-E

[Kantr]

Solas doesnt like what the Elves have become neither Dalsh Nor City.

[Mims]

The inconsistency is almost certainly intentional. He's conflicted.

 

Imagine this. We assume Solas is likely the reason the elven empire fell. He trapped away the other elven gods, who had become corrupt. He likely trapped away numerous high ranking priests/nobles/slave owners along with the gods. Those were his people. The Dread Wolf might have been an outsider, but he turned traitor on his peers. And he did it to protect the people.

 

What did the people do in response? They made him a villain. They demonized him. Even worse, they took the chance at a future and fell short. They descended into anarchy, and Arlathan fell. Rather than unify, they just repeated the same mistakes. The Dalish rejected the city elves and retreated. To this day, the elves say they'll reclaim Arlathan...but there's no leadership, there's no attempt at claiming their heritage.

 

To Solas, it must feel like they took everything he'd sacrificed for them and made it irrelevant. It would have been better if he had kept the system the way it was. He traded Arlathan for nothing. 

 

Which is not to say Solas's feelings are justified. What did he expect would happen? He gave Arlathan over to a people unused to governing themselves without the heavy hand of their gods. He is wrong to be disappointed. But it doesn't change the fact that he probably is. 

[dgcatanisiri]

When Solas is referring to 'his people,' he's definitely not talking about modern elves - the city elves hold little ties to their heritage, while the Dalish have warpped and twisted what little information they do have, to the point of wearing with pride what he sees as a badge of slavery, or viewing him, Fen'Harel, as the villain who locked away the gods and condemed the elves to what they are now, among other things. He is an elf, but he does not identify with the elves of modern Thedas.

 

If anything, the elves he identifies with are those like Abelas, the elves who have slept through the long period of time since the fall of Arlathan, or the clans who have shut themselves out of the world of humans entirely and have no contact with any outsiders, including other clans.

[phaonica]

When Solas is referring to 'his people,' he's definitely not talking about modern elves - the city elves hold little ties to their heritage, while the Dalish have warpped and twisted what little information they do have, to the point of wearing with pride what he sees as a badge of slavery, or viewing him, Fen'Harel, as the villain who locked away the gods and condemed the elves to what they are now, among other things. He is an elf, but he does not identify with the elves of modern Thedas.

 

If anything, the elves he identifies with are those like Abelas, the elves who have slept through the long period of time since the fall of Arlathan, or the clans who have shut themselves out of the world of humans entirely and have no contact with any outsiders, including other clans.

 

But if this is so, then why does he consider Sera "our people", and why does he tell the Inquisitor that the orb is of "our people" if he isn't referring to the Inquisitor's people too (the Dalish? elves in general?)

[leaguer of one]

Inconsistacy...Nope. That's just how he is.

 

"The god Fen'Harel was asked by a village to kill a great beast. He came to the beast at dawn, and saw its strength, and knew it would slay him if he fought it. So instead, he shot an arrow up into the sky. The villagers asked Fen'Harel how he would save them, and he said to them, 'When did I say that I would save you?' And he left, and the great beast came into the village that night and killed the warriors, and the women, and the elders. It came to the children and opened its great maw, but then the arrow that Fen'Harel had loosed fell from the sky into the great beast's mouth, and killed it. The children of the village wept for their parents and elders, but still they made an offering to Fen'Harel of thanks, for he had done what the villagers had asked. He had killed the beast, with his cunning, and a slow arrow that the beast never noticed."

 

http://dragonage.wik...#The_slow_arrow

 

That's just how he is.

[leaguer of one]

But if this is so, then why does he consider Sera "our people", and why does he tell the Inquisitor that the orb is of "our people" if he isn't referring to the Inquisitor's people too (the Dalish? elves in general?)

Sera is a city elf. She has none of the bias or arrogant pride dalish have about their past. There is a chance she can listen more then with the dalish.

[Bad King]

Sera is a city elf. She has none of the bias or arrogant pride dalish have about their past. There is a chance she can listen more then with the dalish.

 

Sera clearly does have a biased and arrogant attitude towards the elven past (in her own way), but if we nevertheless assume that your post is correct, how do you justify the fact that he says "our people" towards the Dalish inquisitor as well (regardless of his approval)? Plus, his statement that he doesn't have much in common with other elves is brought up when discussing Briala who is a city elf.

[leaguer of one]

Sera clearly does have a biased and arrogant attitude towards the elven past (in her own way), but if we nevertheless assume that your post is correct, how do you justify the fact that he says "our people" towards the Dalish inquisitor as well (regardless of his approval)? Plus, his statement that he doesn't have much in common with other elves is brought up when discussing Briala who is a city elf.

People are more then just race.

[Bad King]

People are more then just race.

 

Can you elaborate on how this is relevant to your argument?

[In Exile]

But if this is so, then why does he consider Sera "our people", and why does he tell the Inquisitor that the orb is of "our people" if he isn't referring to the Inquisitor's people too (the Dalish? elves in general?)

The Inquisitor is special. An elf Inquisitor bears the Anchor, which is something quite different. When Solas says 'our people' he means 'my people and your ancestors' but he can't quite come out and say that bit. He wants elves to be like they were.

[Bad King]

When Solas says 'our people' he means 'my people and your ancestors' but he can't quite come out and say that bit.

 

What evidence do you have to support this theory?

[leaguer of one]

Can you elaborate on how this is relevant to your argument?

Base explanation: I'm African but live out side of it and there African living in Africa. Those African will never say I'm one of their people. Why? Because I'm not. You looking at race to much on the statement of people.

[SnowPeaShooter]

Inconsistacy...Nope. That's just how he is.

 

"The god Fen'Harel was asked by a village to kill a great beast. He came to the beast at dawn, and saw its strength, and knew it would slay him if he fought it. So instead, he shot an arrow up into the sky. The villagers asked Fen'Harel how he would save them, and he said to them, 'When did I say that I would save you?' And he left, and the great beast came into the village that night and killed the warriors, and the women, and the elders. It came to the children and opened its great maw, but then the arrow that Fen'Harel had loosed fell from the sky into the great beast's mouth, and killed it. The children of the village wept for their parents and elders, but still they made an offering to Fen'Harel of thanks, for he had done what the villagers had asked. He had killed the beast, with his cunning, and a slow arrow that the beast never noticed."

 

http://dragonage.wik...#The_slow_arrow

 

That's just how he is.

 

How do you know this legend actually happened? Legend also said Fen'Harel betrayed Mythal, but guess what, Fen'Harel had nothing to do with Mythal's murder. "Legend" does not even know Mythal was murdered!

[leaguer of one]

How do you know this legend actually happened? Legend also said Fen'Harel betrayed Mythal, but guess what, Fen'Harel had nothing to do with Mythal's murder. "Legend" does not even know Mythal was murdered!

The person who tells  the legend knows the dread wolf and my of been killed by him. Added this is how Solas is acting like right now.

[Sah291]

This is why I'm so fond of his character, and why the Dalish Inquisitor is my favorite. It's a storyline that confronts the player with a lot of tough questions--what is a "people" and what is a "nation" exactly? Is it simply sharing the same blood or physical features? Is it having an "empire" or "homeland"? Or is it having a shared culture? Or religion? Every nation has it's own myths and legends and history-- but what if it is only half remembered, lost, or destroyed? Or worse, what if what you think you remember is wrong? And what are/were "gods" exactly? Were they just powerful rulers (like Morrigan thought)? Or something else? 

 

Anyway, I think it's intentional. Solas was written to be conflicted, and I'm not entirely sure even he knows who his "people" are supposed to be anymore at that point in the game. He's been asleep for a long time and the world is very different. He asks those questions ironically, but I feel like he is just as much asking himself. And like others have said, he feels responsible, so part of it may be that he is of two minds over how things turned out. He did what he did because he thought he was right, and part of him probably still feels that way. But now that he's seen the consequences, he regrets it and part of him feels it was a mistake. 

 

Also I think his idealization of the past is a bit more nuanced than that. Just because he wants to restore the past, that doesn't necessarily mean he wants to restore everything about the past. The ancient Elven empire had magic, immortality, and crystal palaces...but it also had slavery and oppression and war.   So there's the good and the bad. The gods were powerful and could protect their people, sure, but they could also be petty and selfish, warring over territory, etc. The Dalish are nostalgic for the past and eager to rebuild their empire, but they gloss over some of their darker history, and blame humans for their condition--whether because they have just plain forgotten, or because in their ignorance they don't want to know. And I guess Tevinter does this too, in the way they have emulated Arlathan. Thus the comment about Dorian and romanticizing. Not unlike how a lot of modern westerners might romanticize Rome, I guess. 

[Addai]

The Inquisitor is special. An elf Inquisitor bears the Anchor, which is something quite different. When Solas says 'our people' he means 'my people and your ancestors' but he can't quite come out and say that bit. He wants elves to be like they were.

He says this to Sera as well.

[robertmarilyn]

I think he's conflicted because of his disappointment with what has happened to the elves, and because he feels partially responsible for it. He's written off modern elves because he doesn't believe he can do anything for them. The ones trapped behind the mirrors, those he might still help. My interpretation, anyway. 

 

I suspect he's written off modern elves because, if he can figure out how to do it, he's going to wipe out everything having to do with NOW, to bring things back to time before he messed things up (although I think he's messed things up more than once). So it's best not to think of others as "real" or as mattering, because he's going to wipe them from existence, if he can do so, to accomplish some of his selfish goals. 

 

I don't hate Solas but I don't trust him and I do not think he has the well being of most living creatures in mind. 

[phaonica]

The Inquisitor is special. An elf Inquisitor bears the Anchor, which is something quite different. When Solas says 'our people' he means 'my people and your ancestors' but he can't quite come out and say that bit. He wants elves to be like they were.

 

But, like Addai says, how do you account for Solas including Sera as one of his people?

[BraveTart]

I think it's also worth considering that Solas may sometimes use the royal we. "It is our orb"-- voice of a god. And in TME, Felassan also had a hard time keeping his pronouns straight. There are biological differences between elvhen and elves, so he's one hiding as the other and it's slippery.

[phaonica]

I suspect he's written off modern elves because, if he can figure out how to do it, he's going to wipe out everything having to do with NOW, to bring things back to time before he messed things up (although I think he's messed things up more than once). So it's best not to think of others as "real" or as mattering, because he's going to wipe them from existence, if he can do so, to accomplish some of his selfish goals. 

 

I don't hate Solas but I don't trust him and I do not think he has the well being of most living creatures in mind. 

 

I agree. The idea that Solas has "written off" the modern elves is kind of scary.

[BraveTart]

As for Sera, I think Solas is using his language carefully in that case. If you're in a romance with him, Sera will tease you about it and Solas says don't mind her, "she is apart from herself" which is cryptic as all get out. I think there is something up with Sera, I don't know if it's a full blown Andruil situation like some people say, but there is something weird about her (Cole: your ears always point to the fade.) I've wondered if Sera is a magical-elf but not a mage. Like she's got a strain of that old school Arlathan goodness where magic was as simple as breathing.

[Addai]

I suspect he's written off modern elves because, if he can figure out how to do it, he's going to wipe out everything having to do with NOW, to bring things back to time before he messed things up (although I think he's messed things up more than once). So it's best not to think of others as "real" or as mattering, because he's going to wipe them from existence, if he can do so, to accomplish some of his selfish goals. 
 
I don't hate Solas but I don't trust him and I do not think he has the well being of most living creatures in mind.

I really doubt his plan is that horrific as to wipe out whole peoples from existence. He gives approval to helping people and is concerned about the oppressed. I do think he's a "you have to break a few eggs" kind of guy, but he was desperately trying to stop the Breach from swallowing the world. Would he do that then turn around and become Corypheus himself? He despised Corypheus and his methods.

[In Exile]

But, like Addai says, how do you account for Solas including Sera as one of his people?

 

Solas uses people in two different senses. There are "his people", that is, his peers or contemporaries, who he feels belong to the same culture as he does. And then there are "his" people, that is, the individuals over whom he sees himself as responsible and on a mission to save ("our people" only because he has to keep up the ruse that he doesn't see himself as their shepard) . Remember, Solas hasn't been around very long - as much as he pretends to have been part of the world he awoke only recently; very likely around the same time as Corypheus (which is, at the latest, 10 years ago and at the earliest, 3 years ago). 

 

What evidence do you have to support this theory?

 

Look at the circumstances where he uses those words - my people, our people.