52 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

And more importantly, why can't we sell them?

And even more importantly, why did they keep it a secret?

[AlanC9]

Still, it's awfully weird that the patch notes don't say anything.

[In Exile]

Still, it's awfully weird that the patch notes don't say anything.

There are other things they changed e.g. fade touched materials drop rates that they are silent on. They may have messed with XP gain too.

[theflyingzamboni]

And more importantly, why can't we sell them?

And even more importantly, why did they keep it a secret?

Is this complaining for the sake of complaining? Because being irritated by not being able to sell research items is more than a little ridiculous. What does it matter? They were worth 1 gold apiece before. You were never going to make bank on them. And the point of valuables is to provide cash. Why not have it? Why is it any different than hauling around a sack full of gems, chainmail, and stacks of long swords in a game like Baldur's Gate? And no categories? Seriously?  That would be poor design, and make selling things a needless chore.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Is this complaining for the sake of complaining? Because being irritated by not being able to sell research items is more than a little ridiculous. What does it matter? They were worth 1 gold apiece before. You were never going to make bank on them. And the point of valuables is to provide cash. Why not have it? Why is it any different than hauling around a sack full of gems, chainmail, and stacks of long swords in a game like Baldur's Gate? And no categories? Seriously? That would be poor design, and make selling things a needless chore.

I completely disagree. There are no longer any meaningful choices to be made at all with regard to inventory.

There's no reason to hoard anything except crafting supplies, and they don't take up space.

Among the things that do take up space, the best use of anything you can sell is to sell all of it.

With the easy access to merchants, there's never any reason not to take any loot you find.

So, if you find loot, you take it. If you don't want to use it, you sell it. If you can't sell it, turn it in as research.

What exactly is the player's job if not to make decisions? But with inventory, there are no decisions available.

[Sylvius the Mad]

There are other things they changed e.g. fade touched materials drop rates that they are silent on. They may have messed with XP gain too.

And every single thing should be in an internal changelog somewhere. They should release that.

[theflyingzamboni]

I completely disagree. There are no longer any meaningful choices to be made at all with regard to inventory.

There's no reason to hoard anything except crafting supplies, and they don't take up space.

Among the things that do take up space, the best use of anything you can sell is to sell all of it.

With the easy access to merchants, there's never any reason not to take any loot you find.

So, if you find loot, you take it. If you don't want to use it, you sell it. If you can't sell it, turn it in as research.

What exactly is the player's job if not to make decisions? But with inventory, there are no decisions available.

The only difference I see between this and older RPGs is that I spend less time obsessing over fitting in that 1 gp battle axe that that goblin just dropped.  That and more focus on getting powerful items from crafting instead of collecting and purchasing. In past games, hoarding was possible because there was lots of extra storage, generally. Which means anything you wanted to keep but didn't have room for just went into a chest. None of this adds up to a difference in player decisions.

 

Same logic:

1) Do I have room?

2) If not, is it better or worth more than what I have?

3) If yes to 1 or 2, pick up.

4) If inventory full, find storage/merchant.

5) Repeat

 

The only decision was ever "When do I leave this dungeon to offload my loot?" That's how it's been for the last 15 or so years. The only games I can think of where I had to agonize over anything other than my hoarding instinct are the first and third Deus Ex games.

[In Exile]

And every single thing should be in an internal changelog somewhere. They should release that.

 

Absolutely. At this point I have to think that Bioware is operating on Blue and Orange morality that somehow prohibits adequate documentation. I simply do not understand what purpose omitting the information serves. 

[Lewie]

Well, people flipped out when they sold one malachite by mistake.

 

Ceremonial burial armour that you can't even wear.

[nightscrawl]

I'm just curious: were you deliberately not turning in research items so you could sell them for extra money? As far as I know once you have a given enemy research maxed (two glowing diamonds in Codex) the items no longer drop. Hoarding these things isn't something I ever considered doing.

 

Another reason that using 'sell all' is reckless is because some of the map requisitions use valuables as well, such as the Ferelden Medallion of Service or spider venom glands.

[Kantr]

I completely disagree. There are no longer any meaningful choices to be made at all with regard to inventory.

There's no reason to hoard anything except crafting supplies, and they don't take up space.

Among the things that do take up space, the best use of anything you can sell is to sell all of it.

With the easy access to merchants, there's never any reason not to take any loot you find.

So, if you find loot, you take it. If you don't want to use it, you sell it. If you can't sell it, turn it in as research.

What exactly is the player's job if not to make decisions? But with inventory, there are no decisions available.

But you can sell research (or could) so you'd rather miss out on the xp bonus to gain some quick cash and storage space?

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm just curious: were you deliberately not turning in research items so you could sell them for extra money? As far as I know once you have a given enemy research maxed (two glowing diamonds in Codex) the items no longer drop. Hoarding these things isn't something I ever considered doing.

My objection is that I no longer have the option. That the order in which I do things no longer matters.

The game has become less complex, and we weren't told.

Every time the world is simplified in this way, it becomes a less credible world.

[Spankatola]

The correct solution to that problem was not to be an idiot.

 

Well to paraphrase a redneck comedian, "you can't patch stupid."

[TanithAeyrs]

Still out of likes and so many things I want to like here.  "Don't be an idiot" sits right at the top.  Seriously folks, if you don't look at your inventory before hitting "sell all" what meaning does being able to check inventory have?  Not that I need the 1 gold I get for those things, but after a certain point, how much more damage bonus against spiders do you need?

 

I am occasionally nostalgic over the dilemma about retaining the 1 gp axe from the goblin or dropping it to pick up something different.  I always end up with way more money in these games than I actually need anyway (at least by the end), but scrounging gold for that cool sword or staff at a low level while determining what is most important to keep in your inventory did add to my fun in many of the older games.  Not to mention that weight has been completely removed as a factor, I remember when a weakling mage would have difficulty with 70lbs of gear (including what she was wearing), now if you have enough slots you can pack out thousands of pounds of gear, hmm. 

 

LOL, I guess the world is just geared to try to make things easier for those who don't want to think (that is why lawnmowers have warnings about sticking your feet under them while running - nods to the individual who posted about the signs on the dash of trucks). 

 

Ultimately this change doesn't make a huge difference, it is just one more sign of the times.  Sigh. 

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I agree Sylvius but tell that to the younger generations who seem to think they are entitled to a giant easy button for everything so that they do not have to think anything except "I want this to happen." and boom, it happens, they get it, no though, no effort required. In my experience about 75% of people 30 and under have entitlement disease - they thing they are entitled to everything and, everything must be easy because they were born. They don't want t learn or work for it at all, just want ti all handed to them and, made automatic so they don't have to think.

 

I'd rather use the mind I have, make my own decisions and, earn what I have. It feels good to know you learned, worked, thought and planned to get where you are, you created the life you have of your own hands and mind and didn't take what was easy, you made your life what you wanted it to be, no matter how hard it was to do that.

 

I enjoy that in a game as well, choices that matter, the option to save, squander or, sell every item, planning, making the future what you want it to be for your toon. Do I want a tiny bit more gold, or do I want a damage bonus against a certain type of enemy? (Do I want a few pennies more in my pocket or, do I want that steak dinner?)

[Silith]

Seriously, not being able to sell completely inconsequential items anymore is because of "the younger generation"? You can't use your mind anymore when playing? The game is less complex now!? Are we still talking about research items and how one could accidentally sell them and now you can't sell them anymore or about something serious?

 

I always shake my head in disbelief when I read stuff like that. I belong to the "old generation" who had to put up with design choices which the "old generation" now heralds as "the good old time of gaming" and you know what? I HATED most of these things back then and I'm grateful they're usually not in today's games anymore. I like how most games nowadays don't force me through bad design like this, so it's really not because (only) the younger generation wants an easy button. I'm old(er) and I want games that respect my time and do not make me go through unnecessary stuff that is not fun at all.

I don't quite get how not being able to sell certain items has anything to do with that, though.

 

Regarding the "not being an idiot" comment - I'm sorry, it is really bad design if you teach players that they can move things they don't want into the valuable category, move things that no one needs anyway into the valuable category automatically and tell players that they can sell everything in this category with the click of one button - only you neglect to tell them that you also moved important research items into this category too. Congratulations to you if you figured this out right at the beginning of the game - I did not (because why should I check the valuables tab? Don't tell me you did, because why would you!?) and constantly wondered why I could never turn in any research items. I guess that makes me an idiot? I figured it out after a while but this is still bad design - or a bug. A lot of people complained. They changed it. This is good.

 

Why you now can't sell those items at all, who knows, it's seems it's not implemented very elegantly. But I fail to see how this is a "sign of the times". We're no 80 year olds in a nursing home, people... (but if you are, apologies. Go right back to reminiscing about the good old time, then!).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Regarding the "not being an idiot" comment - I'm sorry, it is really bad design if you teach players that they can move things they don't want into the valuable category, move things that no one needs anyway into the valuable category automatically and tell players that they can sell everything in this category with the click of one button - only you neglect to tell them that you also moved important research items into this category too. Congratulations to you if you figured this out right at the beginning of the game - I did not (because why should I check the valuables tab? Don't tell me you did, because why would you!?) and constantly wondered why I could never turn in any research items. I guess that makes me an idiot? I figured it out after a while but this is still bad design - or a bug. A lot of people complained. They changed it. This is good.

But they didn't mention it in the patch notes. What else have they changed secretly? With this game's lack of documentation, it's actually a lot of work to figure out how it works. If they're patching things and not telling us, how much of that work has been wasted?

And it is because the game isn't documented that I absolutely did check the Valuables tab. You ask why would I - because I didn't know what was in there. You appear to have assumed that it worked like the DA2 Junk tab, but why would you do that?

Even when I was turning in the research items first I never used Sell All because I was never confident that everything else in there was something I wanted to sell. How could I have been? The game is completely undocumented. I wasn't even sure that Sell All was limited by category. What if it sold all my weapons and armour, too? I didn't know what it did.

[Kantr]

But they didn't mention it in the patch notes. What else have they changed secretly? With this game's lack of documentation, it's actually a lot of work to figure out how it works. If they're patching things and not telling us, how much of that work has been wasted?

And it is because the game isn't documented that I absolutely did check the Valuables tab. You ask why would I - because I didn't know what was in there. You appear to have assumed that it worked like the DA2 Junk tab, but why would you do that?

Even when I was turning in the research items first I never used Sell All because I was never confident that everything else in there was something I wanted to sell. How could I have been? The game is completely undocumented. I wasn't even sure that Sell All was limited by category. What if it sold all my weapons and armour, too? I didn't know what it did.

It does work like the Junk tab, except renamed

[PhroXenGold]

While it probably should've indeed appeared in the patch notes, just so I can know it's safe to use "sell all", I genuinely cannot comprehend how anyone can object to  this change. It's a straight up positive QOL improvement with no drawbacks.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It does work like the Junk tab, except renamed

There was no way for us to know that.

While it probably should've indeed appeared in the patch notes, just so I can know it's safe to use "sell all", I genuinely cannot comprehend how anyone can object to this change. It's a straight up positive QOL improvement with no drawbacks.

I disagree. It's an unnecessary simplification that makes the game world just a little more contrived.

It takes the inventory categories, which were already a bad idea, one step farther.

[PhroXenGold]

There was no way for us to know that.
I disagree. It's an unnecessary simplification that makes the game world just a little more contrived.

It takes the inventory categories, which were already a bad idea, one step farther.

 

It's a fantastic simplification that removes unneccesary complexity with no drawbacks. And what the hell is wrong with inventory categories?

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's a fantastic simplification that removes unneccesary complexity with no drawbacks. And what the hell is wrong with inventory categories?

It deprives us of an opportunity to make in-character decisions.

I'd like quest items to appear in regular inventory, and be sellable, as well.

Complexity is something to be sought, not avoided. I want complexity.

[Dubya75]

Just another step from Bioware towards dumbing things down for us idiot gamers, who apparently can't be trusted to even manage our own inventory content. 

[Kantr]

Of all the things to complain about and have difficulty with. This is the weirdest