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[I present Chuck Bass]

Yeah Ik the

It was actually not known. The last blight was 400 years ago and the Wardens had fallen largely into the realm of myth. People believe that the darkspawn are gone for good, and that's a conversation option you get in the human noble origin when introduced to Duncan.
People know the Wardens have defeated archdemons in the past. No one, not even your own Warden or Alistair, knows why. It's very easy by this time to chalk them up to an order of great warriors without having any idea that there's anything special about them.

Yeah Ik the story.
Aftermath of the 4th blight : The effects of the Blight persisted in the Anderfels and the Deep Roads but were largely ignored by most, save for the Grey Wardens. So many darkspawn were slain in the final battles of the Blight that it was easy for some to imagine that they would never return. This view persisted for many centuries after the final victory at Ayesleigh, and would ultimately damage efforts to repulse the darkspawn the next time they rose up under the command of an archdemon, as the surface kingdoms were long convinced such an occurance was impossible.[14] Garahel himself was granted a hero's funeral, attended by kings and emperors from across Thedas.[15]

Some people ignorantly thought the darkspawn had been defeated and the grey wardens faded away... But it doesn't mean that every person forgot that grey wardens were essential in ending blights. Cailan knew, there is no excuse as to why Loghain shouldn't have known... (If we are going on the notion that he didn't know).

[Addai]

Well idk, an ignorant man, is a dangerous one. Loghains choice cost Ferelden big time, and almost resulted in Ferelden being completely destroyed.

It's moot who's fault it is. It was known at this point, that grey wardens were essential to ending the blight( whether the reason was clear or not)... For him to let the wardens of Ferelden all die was a bad decision. That once choice almost destroyed Fereldens chance of defeating the blight, if not for two wardens.( HOF and Alistair).

It was made clear no one other nation was willing to help, Orlais literally watched it all happen.

Everything you're saying assumes that he could have saved them. I think that's doubtful at best. When you cross the bridge to the tower, you see the darkspawn lines going off into the horizon with no end. It's far more likely that Loghain's army would have been overwhelmed and it would be the same result and worse. His real mistakes were afterward and political, not at the Battle of Ostagar, IMO.

[Monica21]

It is unreasonable to expect Loghain, or anyone, to act on a presumption. And Cailan didn't know anything either. He just liked the idea of the Wardens. He had no idea what purpose they served.

[I present Chuck Bass]

Everything you're saying assumes that he could have saved them. I think that's doubtful at best. When you cross the bridge to the tower, you see the darkspawn lines going off into the horizon with no end. It's far more likely that Loghain's army would have been overwhelmed and it would be the same result and worse. His real mistakes were afterward and political, not at the Battle of Ostagar, IMO.

Yes this is true, but I think he could have snagged a few wardens away, sent a few man around and ahead of the battle. I'm sure there was a few nervous wrecks among the wardens that would have gladly gone with him.

[I present Chuck Bass]

It is unreasonable to expect Loghain, or anyone, to act on a presumption. And Cailan didn't know anything either. He just liked the idea of the Wardens. He had no idea what purpose they served.

It's no presumption. I just read the section about the 4th Blight and 5th blight in " Dragon Age: The world of Thedas: volume 1"... And it says no where did people forget what the grey wardens were or what they did. Only that people thought that the 4th blight was the last one due to how many darkspawn were killed... And that this assumption left Ferelden unprepared when it came to the next blight. It was not lost knowledge that grey wardens were essential to ending blights, therefore as a general fighting along side grey wardens...Loghian has no excuse to not know the importance of them to ending the blight.

[Sui Causa]

http://privateai.tum...ent-played-with

 

This comic alone makes me love this guy.

[Monica21]

It's no presumption. I just read the section about the 4th Blight and 5th blight in " Dragon Age: The world of Thedas: volume 1"... And it says no where did people forget what the grey wardens were or what they did. Only that people thought that the 4th blight was the last one due to how many darkspawn were killed... And that this assumption left Ferelden unprepared when it came to the next blight. It was not lost knowledge that grey wardens were essential to ending blights, therefore as a general fighting along side grey wardens...Loghian has no excuse to not know the importance of them to ending the blight.

Okay. This is the last time I'll say this. The only thing anyone knows is that Wardens have killed Archdemons. They don't have any idea why. And considering that Loghain`s previous experience with them was when they almost got Maric killed and worked with the Architect to turn all of humanity to blighted creatures, I'd say his suspicions about the order is justified.

[Master Warder Z_]

She was still locked away.

 

Recall what her maid told you.

 

She went to pay the new Arl a visit, likely that was all Loghain knew.

[I present Chuck Bass]

Okay. This is the last time I'll say this. The only thing anyone knows is that Wardens have killed Archdemons. They don't have any idea why. And considering that Loghain`s previous experience with them was when they almost got Maric killed and worked with the Architect to turn all of humanity to blighted creatures, I'd say his suspicions about the order is justified.

Yes but come on, the first blight lasted two centuries. Everyone knows that. Everyone also knows that the until the grey wardens came along, killing the archdemon wasn't possible. It doesn't matter if people understand how they kill them, it's simple enough to understand without grey wardens it's never worked. All of this is recorded history. Do I expect every commoner to know this?no. But Loghain yes. Everyone knew grey wardens ended blights, it didn't matter how, all that matters is people knew they did. Loghain jeopardized all of Ferelden with his decision, knowing the importance of the grey wardens to ending blights( he doesn't have to understand how they exactly kill an archdemon only that they do). If Alistair and the HOF died, Ferelden goes under. I'm not saying he could have turned the tide of the battle, he probably couldn't, but he could have rescued some grey wardens that much I know.

[TEWR]

Recently I've realized that I don't know much about Loghain & why people like his character. I've played DA:O but I don't feel like I know that much about him per se & it would be nice to actually hear something from someone else's perspective. So why do you like Loghain? What makes him so great? How do you justify keeping him alive?

 

He's a brilliant tactician, a father to his men, wanted the people of his nation to unite against a common enemy, was put in a difficult situation because of idiot Banns and a greedy bastard who presented too much of a threat if antagonized, and ultimately is willing to undergo the Joining. I believe in redemption for everyone, and he proved himself worthy of it.

[Queen Rowan]

Loghain is the bomb diggity and that's all anyone really needs to know about him ;D

[TEWR]

Yes but come on, the first blight lasted two centuries. Everyone knows that. Everyone also knows that the until the grey wardens came along, killing the archdemon wasn't possible. It doesn't matter if people understand how they kill them, it's simple enough to understand without grey wardens it's never worked. All of this is recorded history. Do I expect every commoner to know this?no. But Loghain yes. Everyone knew grey wardens ended blights, it didn't matter how, all that matters is people knew they did. Loghain jeopardized all of Ferelden with his decision, knowing the importance of the grey wardens to ending blights( he doesn't have to understand how they exactly kill an archdemon only that they do). If Alistair and the HOF died, Ferelden goes under. I'm not saying he could have turned the tide of the battle, he probably couldn't, but he could have rescued some grey wardens that much I know.

 

No you don't know. You don't know how many Wardens were left alive, if any aside from Duncan were (and he died quickly), or if they turned tail and ran. You don't know any of that. You don't know where they were on the field. You don't know if Loghain's men could've saved them. You don't know any of the things that you say he "could have done" because you're operating with too many unknowns.

 

There are only two GWs that he knew for a fact were still alive at this point in the battle because they just lit the beacon, and they're all the way up at the top of a Tower. And the beacon was lit late, while also being lit at the wrong time (it was supposed to be lit when the Darkspawn were fully committed). But it came when the forces under Cailan were cracking and Darkspawn were still coming in.

 

Beyond the fact that he doesn't trust them (they have a history of helping Orlais, rising up against Ferelden, and he saw them making shady deals to say nothing of Ostagar and them) he does make it a point to confiscate the Warden materials. But he doesn't destroy them. He also took the encrypted documents and due to Anora knowing of the fatality of the Joining I'm led to believe he was hoping to learn the secrets the Wardens wouldn't share and make his own Wardens, loyal to Ferelden.

[I present Chuck Bass]

No you don't know. You don't know how many Wardens were left alive, if any aside from Duncan were (and he died quickly), or if they turned tail and ran. You don't know any of that. You don't know where they were on the field. You don't know if Loghain's men could've saved them. You don't know any of the things that you say he "could have done" because you're operating with too many unknowns.

There are only two GWs that he knew for a fact were still alive at this point in the battle because they just lit the beacon, and they're all the way up at the top of a Tower. And the beacon was lit late, while also being lit at the wrong time (it was supposed to be lit when the Darkspawn were fully committed). But it came when the forces under Cailan were cracking and Darkspawn were still coming in.

Beyond the fact that he doesn't trust them (they have a history of helping Orlais, rising up against Ferelden, and he saw them making shady deals to say nothing of Ostagar and them) he does make it a point to confiscate the Warden materials. But he doesn't destroy them. He also took the encrypted documents and due to Anora knowing of the fatality of the Joining I'm led to believe he was hoping to learn the secrets the Wardens wouldn't share and make his own Wardens, loyal to Ferelden.

I'm sure your side of the argument has assumptions, because to argue about whether or not he could have done something would require an assumption.

Your second point, why not save the two lighting the beacon then? He left them to die as well? Perhaps a small dispatch? At least try?

Your third point, I'll disregard the assumptions you made as you did mine... Idk personally to me he was just a pompous bastard.

[Steelcan]

Your second point, why not save the two lighting the beacon then? He left them to die as well? Perhaps a small dispatch?
 

just a small matter of sending men out of cover, through a darkspawn horde, to an overrun position

[OH-UP-THIS!]

I'm sorry but, I detest that power hungry scumbag so much, that every PT of origins involves his execution.

 

I only wish i could slice-and-dice him "assassin style" earlier during the game, to avoid having to listen to the sniveling lords and ladies, at the landsmeet.

 

Sera 'lives' for this type of dirtbag, which is ok in my book.

[I present Chuck Bass]

just a small matter of sending men out of cover, through a darkspawn horde, to an overrun position

Hey, my little dwarf inquisitor saved Thedas from Cory, don't tell me it couldn't have been done.

[Master Warder Z_]

Hey, my little dwarf inquisitor saved Thedas from Cory, don't tell me it couldn't have been done.

 

o.o

 

He actually almost seemed insulted if you roll Dwarf.

 

He's like a dwarf? Seriously bro you played the entire game through as a dwarf?

[I present Chuck Bass]

o.o
 
He actually almost seemed insulted if you roll Dwarf.
 
He's like a dwarf? Seriously bro you played the entire game through as a dwarf?

lololol....
Good ol' dwarves.

[Master Warder Z_]

lololol....
Good ol' dwarves.

 

I like dwarves, not playing as them, but just their role in the setting.

[Steelcan]

I like dwarves, not playing as them, but just their role in the setting.

I can't play as them or elves, too short

[I present Chuck Bass]

I like dwarves, not playing as them, but just their role in the setting.

Yeah I don't use them for my cannon playthrough, just that immediate second playthrough where I need a whole new perspective and a good laugh.

[Teligth]

I would have spared him for Anora's sake, but losing Allistair wasn't an option so I killed him in combat.

[Master Warder Z_]

I would have spared him for Anora's sake, but losing Allistair wasn't an option so I killed him in combat.

 

But he literally takes Alistair's place...

 

Sword and Board warrior...

 

In default awesome armor.

[I present Chuck Bass]

But he literally takes Alistair's place...
 
Sword and Board warrior...
 
In default awesome armor.

Yeah but Alistair is a homie.
Loghain is like one of my fathers friends.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah but Alistair is a homie.
Loghain is like one of my fathers friends.

 

He struck a cord with me; I saw a war myself, i saw some ****ed up **** you wouldn't find in any sort of fictional media.

 

And he was the same; he saw the brutality of the occupation, and then the rebellion and then actually building a nation from scratch.

 

He's a man that i honestly could identify with.

 

That's personal and not character related i know.