72 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Well what is going on then? Is the rogue dragging around a dummy of himself? Surely someone would see him plant that one on the ground before him?

 

At least let the player have to buy the ingredients for such a device. Just letting the character get 10 000 of those things for free is rather hinting at the fact that there is magic involved. The whole ability is ill-concieved, in any case.

 

I believe the idea for rogues is to be a technological caster of sorts. What is the most advanced tech in their time, they will use. Longbows are medieval versions of sniper rifles. Daggers are omni-blades.

 

The problem is that Bioware does not make an effort to show this. For something like decoy, the should have show the rogue throwing a special bomb, either smoke bomb or a flashbang one that distracts the enemy while the character enter stealth and the grenade then turns into a decoy of sorts...

 

Decoy should have been an upgrade, a direct upgrade for stealth. 

[Jeffry]

Well what is going on then? Is the rogue dragging around a dummy of himself? Surely someone would see him plant that one on the ground before him?

 

At least let the player have to buy the ingredients for such a device. Just letting the character get 10 000 of those things for free is rather hinting at the fact that there is magic involved. The whole ability is ill-concieved, in any case.

 

Yeah, some ingredients for the rogue tricks would be nice and would make sense (now in DAI we don't even have to craft traps anymore). But I still don't think magic in involved based on the fact they don't use any ingredients - that is just game mechanics.

[Rawgrim]

I believe the idea for rogues is to be a technological caster of sorts. What is the most advanced tech in their time, they will use. Longbows are medieval versions of sniper rifles. Daggers are omni-blades.

 

The problem is that Bioware does not make an effort to show this. For something like decoy, the should have show the rogue throwing a special bomb, either smoke bomb or a flashbang one that distracts the enemy while the character enter stealth and the grenade then turns into a decoy of sorts...

 

Decoy should have been an upgrade, a direct upgrade for stealth. 

 

A grenade turning into a decoy sounds beyond lame, to be honest. Grenades don't even do that with our technology. Pretty far fetched fir non-magic technology during "medieval times".

 

The problem is that the designers on DA2 and DA:I have no clue about how rpgs works. The devil is in the details in the rpg genre, and just tossing in fantastic abilities for the sake of "kewl", and not bothering with any explanation for it, hurts the credibility of the gameworld, the story, and whatever else in a huge way. The lore in this game has gone from having a few holes here and there, to a gaping pointless maw. And that comes from the designers adding abilities and stuff like that, that doesn't just contradict the lore, it goes directly against it. The complete opposite of what the lore says, in some cases.

[Elhanan]

A grenade turning into a decoy sounds beyond lame, to be honest. Grenades don't even do that with our technology. Pretty far fetched fir non-magic technology during "medieval times".
 
The problem is that the designers on DA2 and DA:I have no clue about how rpgs works. The devil is in the details in the rpg genre, and just tossing in fantastic abilities for the sake of "kewl", and not bothering with any explanation for it, hurts the credibility of the gameworld, the story, and whatever else in a huge way. The lore in this game has gone from having a few holes here and there, to a gaping pointless maw. And that comes from the designers adding abilities and stuff like that, that doesn't just contradict the lore, it goes directly against it. The complete opposite of what the lore says, in some cases.

Balderdash....

Now I did not use Decoy, as I also dislike the concept, but while we cannot do this today with Tech means nothing, as do not have magic, lyrium, spirits, and a bevy of other things set in this Fantasy based world. If one does not like it; skip it. This is what I do presently with the 2H bottom of the Tier ability, most of the throwing chain abilities, etc. The games gives us the content; we as Players get to choose what we wish from it.

[Nefla]

I missed cone of cold and also healing spells.

[Rawgrim]

Balderdash....

Now I did not use Decoy, as I also dislike the concept, but while we cannot do this today with Tech means nothing, as do not have magic, lyrium, spirits, and a bevy of other things set in this Fantasy based world. If one does not like it; skip it. This is what I do presently with the 2H bottom of the Tier ability, most of the throwing chain abilities, etc. The games gives us the content; we as Players get to choose what we wish from it.

 

A fantasy world functions like this: Unless explained otherwise: it functions like out world. The laws of nature applies etc.

 

Lyrium, magic, and all that is explained in the Lore. That is how those things work in Thedas, and that is fine. The tech bit is not explained at all. It just showed up during DA:I for no reason. And if Thedas is suddenly more technologically advanced, during its medieal times, than our world is in its current time period, someone should bother to explain why and how. Handwaving it as "It is fantasy!" is the worst argument you can make when it comes to stuff like this. People spend months or even years creating and establishing the lore because every fantasy world has its own way of working.

 

You can still skip it, sure. But you also get the lame stuff rubbed right in the face while playing. Not possible to avoid all of it.

 

Would you be fine with it if the next DA game gives your rogue the ability to summon a space ship or a car? It is content, right. Its your fault if you think it is a negative one.

[Elhanan]

A fantasy world functions like this: Unless explained otherwise: it functions like out world. The laws of nature applies etc.
 
Lyrium, magic, and all that is explained in the Lore. That is how those things work in Thedas, and that is fine. The tech bit is not explained at all. It just showed up during DA:I for no reason. And if Thedas is suddenly more technologically advanced, during its medieal times, than our world is in its current time period, someone should bother to explain why and how. Handwaving it as "It is fantasy!" is the worst argument you can make when it comes to stuff like this. People spend months or even years creating and establishing the lore because every fantasy world has its own way of working.
 
You can still skip it, sure. But you also get the lame stuff rubbed right in the face while playing. Not possible to avoid all of it.
 
Would you be fine with it if the next DA game gives your rogue the ability to summon a space ship or a car? It is content, right. Its your fault if you think it is a negative one.

DA Tech has been involved from the start; hence the Paragons of Orzammar. Or do we have possessed Golems, Enchanting, and smokeless ore of which I am unaware? Bianca is based on tech; not magic. Etc.

Has nothing to do with hand waving, and more to do with accepting what is presented. Or not, which is why I dislike chain tossing amongst other things, and choose not to use them.

[Rawgrim]

DA Tech has been involved from the start; hence the Paragons of Orzammar. Or do we have possessed Golems, Enchanting, and smokeless ore of which I am unaware? Bianca is based on tech; not magic. Etc.

Has nothing to do with hand waving, and more to do with accepting what is presented. Or not, which is why I dislike chain tossing amongst other things, and choose not to use them.

 

Golems involve magic of sorts to transfer a soul into them, clearly. Actually creating their bodies is plain old stonecarving I guess.

 

Bianca is a crossbow. A weapon we already had in DA:O. Nothing out of the ordinary about Bianca.

 

So how can you accept everything shown, when the lore you like to read tells you this and that shouldn't be possible under any circumstances?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Here are descriptions of the Rogue class that I found to be the most reliable:- 

 

Simplified Definition

 

Rogues have little in common with each other. While some - maybe even the majority - are stealthy thieves, many serve as scouts, spies, investigators, diplomats, and simple thugs. Rogues are versatile, adaptable, and skilled at getting what others don't want them to get. While not equal to a fighter in combat, a rogue knows how to hit where it hurts, and a sneak attack can dish out a lot of damage. Rogues also seem to have a sixth sense when it comes to avoiding danger. Experienced rogues develop nearly magical powers and skills as they master the arts of stealth, evasion, and sneak attacks. In addition, while not capable of casting spells on their own, a rogue can sometimes 'fake it' well enough to cast spells from scrolls, activate wands, and use just about any other magic item.

 

Detailed Definition

Every town and city has its share of rogues. Most of them live up to the worst stereotypes of the class, making a living as burglars, assassins, cutpurses, and con artists. Often, these scoundrels are organized into a thieves’ guild or crime family. Plenty of rogues operate independently, but even they sometimes recruit apprentices to help them in their scams and heists. A few rogues make an honest living as locksmiths, investigators, or exterminators, which can be a dangerous job in a world where dire rats—and wererats—haunt the sewers.

 

As adventurers, rogues fall on both sides of the law. Some are hardened criminals who decide to seek their fortune in treasure hoards, while others enter a life of adventure to escape from the law. Others have learned and perfected their skills with the explicit purpose of infiltrating ancient ruins and hidden crypts in search of treasure.

 

Rogues devote as much effort to mastering the use of a variety of skills as they do to perfecting their combat abilities, giving them an expertise that few other characters can match. Many rogues focus on stealth and deception, while others refine the skills that help them in a dungeon environment, such as climbing, finding and disarming traps, and opening locks.

 

When it comes to combat, rogues prioritize skill over brute strength. A rogue would rather make one precise strike, placing it exactly where the attack will hurt the target most, than wear an opponent down with many smaller strikes. They have an almost supernatural knack for avoiding danger, and a few rogues learn magical tricks to supplement their other abilities.

 

 

The point is that rogues are practical and tech-minded. They use tools and skill to solve problems. Rogues in medieval fantasy games are the engineers, infiltrators and investigators of old. 

 

As masters of stealth and deception, especially in a world where there is enchanting, alchemy, lyrium and magics to mislead people...I am sure they can engineer decoys and use them....

 

I mean, Branka invented smokeless fuel for smithing. In our world, smokeless fuel that was invented came about in the form of Hexamine fuel tablet in the 1930s. 

 

So perhaps when it comes to decoys, perhaps it is grenade that creates decoy or perhaps it is a smoke filled with neurotoxins that addles your mind to think there is someone fighting you. Watched the Arrow series recently ? The drug Vertigo does this. 

 

Bioware should have gone and explained how it works though. 

[Ujop]

Golems involve magic of sorts to transfer a soul into them, clearly. Actually creating their bodies is plain old stonecarving I guess.

 

Bianca is a crossbow. A weapon we already had in DA:O. Nothing out of the ordinary about Bianca.

 

So how can you accept everything shown, when the lore you like to read tells you this and that shouldn't be possible under any circumstances?

Hi

 

Sorry to go OT but i have to dissagree with you on several points.

 

The making of golems had no magic involved. From the description of Caridin it ws more like: setting a dwarf into a big stone or metal "armor" an pouring liquid lyrium thru his eye-balls, than hammering him into shape.

I think you're confusing  the sould transfer with one of the different endings, which stated that the dwarves hired some mages to find an alternate source of "life" for golems and they tried to bind spirits into teh shells ( which ended very bad )

Eitherway the original way of making golems did surelly not involve any magic as Caridin was a dwarf and there were no mages mentioned in the process. And how the melting of organic and non-organic "material" is exactly done is also not explained in detail.

 

Regarding Bianca. The weapon differes greatly from standard cross-bows. There is no quiver for the ammo. The bolts are placed in the "trunk" and reloads by a not explained mechanism. The realoding can be seen in the cutscene in Varrics quest in DA2. where he shoots one arrow thru several guards.

 

Personaly i think there is much space in a fantasy genre to speculate.

 

The lore description you speak of are from my PoV very vague.

 

For example lyrium. From what i information i gathered from the codex or games itself is: it's toxic, it ehances magical abilities or enables pseudo-magical abilities (templars) and as of new is "alive". However what makes it toxic, how does it exactly enhance magic and how can a mineral-like substance be alive is never explained.

 

Again fantasy as i see it allows for some speculations. The "there are some carefully explained fictional rules that shape the very existance of some world" approach is from my perspective more a domain of Sci-fi.

 

Naturaly feel free to disagree

[Rawgrim]

Hi

 

Sorry to go OT but i have to dissagree with you on several points.

 

The making of golems had no magic involved. From the description of Caridin it ws more like: setting a dwarf into a big stone or metal "armor" an pouring liquid lyrium thru his eye-balls, than hammering him into shape.

I think you're confusing  the sould transfer with one of the different endings, which stated that the dwarves hired some mages to find an alternate source of "life" for golems and they tried to bind spirits into teh shells ( which ended very bad )

Eitherway the original way of making golems did surelly not involve any magic as Caridin was a dwarf and there were no mages mentioned in the process. And how the melting of organic and non-organic "material" is exactly done is also not explained in detail.

 

Regarding Bianca. The weapon differes greatly from standard cross-bows. There is no quiver for the ammo. The bolts are placed in the "trunk" and reloads by a not explained mechanism. The realoding can be seen in the cutscene in Varrics quest in DA2. where he shoots one arrow thru several guards.

 

Personaly i think there is much space in a fantasy genre to speculate.

 

The lore description you speak of are from my PoV very vague.

 

For example lyrium. From what i information i gathered from the codex or games itself is: it's toxic, it ehances magical abilities or enables pseudo-magical abilities (templars) and as of new is "alive". However what makes it toxic, how does it exactly enhance magic and how can a mineral-like substance be alive is never explained.

 

Again fantasy as i see it allows for some speculations. The "there are some carefully explained fictional rules that shape the very existance of some world" approach is from my perspective more a domain of Sci-fi.

 

Naturaly feel free to disagree

 

Fair enough about the golem. I may have misunderstood how they are made. My point still stands though. It is explained to the last detail in the lore. The Decoy ability and other abilities like it, gets zero explanation whatsoever, and it clearly goes against the written lore for this gameworld.

 

And no. I have to disagree with you on your sci-fi point. Magic, and how it works in a Fantasy world, needs to be established. Most of all what you can't do with magic. How the world works in a fantasy story is as vital as the science in a sci-fi story. Trust me. I get paid to create stuff like that. Its important.

 

Perfectly ok if you disagree with me too. Don't worry about it

[Ujop]

Fair enough about the golem. I may have misunderstood how they are made. My point still stands though. It is explained to the last detail in the lore. The Decoy ability and other abilities like it, gets zero explanation whatsoever, and it clearly goes against the written lore for this gameworld.

 

And no. I have to disagree with you on your sci-fi point. Magic, and how it works in a Fantasy world, needs to be established. Most of all what you can't do with magic. How the world works in a fantasy story is as vital as the science in a sci-fi story. Trust me. I get paid to create stuff like that. Its important.

 

Perfectly ok if you disagree with me too. Don't worry about it

Fair enough.

 

Eitherway i think you don't need to worry about seeing the Decoy ability in any DA game in the future. The approach i see now in the DA franchise is to decrease the number of abilities.

 

And honestly i think that the decoy ability in awakening was just a "filler" ability when they clearly run out of ideas what to add.( it's just a copy of the same named BG2 spell )

 

To return to the topic. if i should chose any spells that should make a return in a future DA game it would be surely the glyph line from DAO. and naturaly the all-mighty firebal. The poor-man version of it in DAI ( immolate ) does not cut it for me

 

If i could add a new spell, than it would be ironicaly some sort of mirror image ( loved that spell in the infinity engine games )

[Pokemario]

Crushing Prison and...

MASS PARALYSIS

[Uccio]

Lyrium is magic, thus magic is involved in the golem making process.

[Rawgrim]

Lyrium is magic, thus magic is involved in the golem making process.

 

Well...Lyrium is a living being now, it seems. So who the heck knows anymore?

[coldflame]

Well...Lyrium is a living being now, it seems. So who the heck knows anymore?

Before you know it, Lyrium will be the Maker all along.

[Elhanan]

Well...Lyrium is a living being now, it seems. So who the heck knows anymore?

Perhaps it is based on Dwarves returning to the Stone, seeing as there appears to be some credibility for the Chantry and Elven lore currently.

[Abraham_uk]

Seriously. All of them.

 

Since this is basically "remember that spell from Dragon Age Origins" thread, how about we try to come up with new spells or at least abilities from non Dragon Age games.

 

 

Inverse:  When used on the player it will invert the movement of camera and character and blurs the screen. This also slows down responsiveness of actions. (On consoles this inverts the movements of the two analogue sticks). In addition (applies whether the afflicted is a player character/ally or enemy) inverse makes the afflicted's movements staggered with a chance of completely falling over. Inverse also reduces rate of evasion, accuracy, speed and damage of attack and rules out chances of landing critical hits. Targets with low resistance to Inverse will pass out, whereas targets with high resistance will suffer small penalties. However no one is immune to this spell.

 

Darkness: Reduces the accuracy of the afflicted target. No target is immune to this affect. In extreme cases this reduces the accuracy to 0%, whilst foes with high resistance will only suffer a 10% accuracy penalty and half the duration time. Targets with low resistance will panic and are more likely to attack allies.

 

Intense Aggro: Some enemy tanks can taunt player character and party to the extent that only that tank will be visible to the party. This is to replicate the aggro manipulating mechanics that players can use on foes. This means that if a tank aggros your party, you'll be vulnerable to other enemies catching you off guard. The only remedy to this status affect is to kill off the tank as quickly as possible as the duration is permanent. (This is not a spell. It is an ability that tanky warriors already have in their arsenal).

 

Cascade: Much like Bad Breath ability from the Final Fantasy series, Cascade is a lingering cloud of negative affects. There is a guaranteed chance that at least one of the negative affects will be inflicted on any foe who is caught within the cloud. Player and allies should be careful not to enter the cloud.

 

Bloom: This is the opposite of Cascade. Instead of being a cloud of multiple negative affects, this randomly cloud adds positive affects to anyone who enters the cloud. However enemies can make use of this cloud too.

 

Primal Rage: A risky spell that angers enemies to deal more damage with their attacks but renders foes unable to use their talents and spells. Primal Rage is particularly useful against casters who have weak physical attacks but risky against warriors and rogues. Foes with low resistance to this spell will flail around reducing their accuracy and increasing the chance of critical hits being inflicted upon them (if you leave yourself open that tends to happen).

 

Aura of Weakness: This spell not only highlights an enemy weakness, it actually increases a foes weakness. So if a foe already takes more damage against fire elemental attacks, they will take even more damage from that attack. The only foes who are immune to this spell are those who have no weaknesses to exploit in the first place.

 

Aura of Strength: This spell highlights any resistances within the party and amplifies them. So for example, if an ally has a 30% resistance against melee attacks, this will be increased to 45% resistance to melee attacks.

 

YELL FOR HELP!: The mage yells as hard as they can, but they use magic to further amplify the yell. This causes an earthquake that affects everyone friend and foe alike. Whilst the spell deals no damage, it prevents all affected from doing anything as long as the spell animation is active (duration 3 seconds). During the duration the mage will restore some health to entire party and remove all negative effects (hence "HELP" in the spell's name). This has a long cooldown and is only used as a panic button.

[LadyLaLa]

Crushing Prison and Mana Clash. Those plus Walking Bomb were my all time favorite spells in Origins

[earymir]

I miss basically all the spirit and entropy school spells.  Crushing prison, FORCE FIELD (that spell had some very good tactical opportunities), mass paralysis, mana clash.  Also I miss some of the creation and keeper-themed spells.  I loved the swarm spell, spell bloom, grease + fire, Merril's vine-ish spells.  Rock armor from the primal school.  

 

They got rid of a lot of the magic from DAO and DA2, and basically forced everyone to be half spirit school half primal (with a specialization later).  It just feels like we lost a huge chunk of magical lore - as if those centuries of magical studies in the circles never existed, and that elven keeper magic is identical to that of the chantry circles and the tevinter circles.  Just bleck.  

[HeyCal]

I just want our entropy spells and cone of cold back... Also for stone fist to not be locked into the rift mage specialization. 

[wiredrawn]

I, for one, would love for the DA:O drain line and Hex spells to come back.

 

Casting a cloud of darkness (Death cloud) into a death hex was so so soooo satisfying. 

 

 

What about you?

 

Yay debuffs, I actually do miss hex!

Actually though I would like to take this moment to request some spells with assets already in game to be applied to our existing spell trees..

 

1. Ray of frost, it's assets are already in game, Used by the ice witches from rifts etc.

2. The slide backwards leaving a trail of fire/ice that the enemy must walk through to get to you which again, it's assets are already in game.

 

These would be nice additions to make solo mage a tad bit more fun or support either or.

[JaegerBane]

I'm honestly not bothered about the loss of healing spells. I personally prefer the new Barrier system over the old frantic heal everything cycle.

But.... What would I like to see.....

Cone of Cold.

Glyphs of Repulsion/Paralysis.

Proper Earth magic (Petrify, Earthquake, Stonefist that anyone can use)

F***ING TELEKINESIS SPELLS. Crushing Prison, a proper version of Mind Blast, the whole damn Force Mage tree. Why is it such a unallowable thing to want to throw rag dolls everywhere?