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[United Servo Academy Choir]

You realize that Drew did not leave before ME2 was finished, right? If you hated ME2 that much, Drew wouldn't have "saved" ME3 for you.

 

Truth be told, the entire "Things would have been so awesome if XYZ had stayed/been in charge" idea is grating.

 

Esp. when there's evidence to the contrary in your case.

(I loved both ME2 & 3, preferred 3 tho)

 

Well - and I can't source it - someone here on the BSN recently posted a thread about an interview where he talked a bit about aborted and preliminary ideas for the larger narrative. Even the barest references he made (eg, the Reapers, as immortal beings, want to prevent a "big crunch") were better and more interesting than what we ended up with. Besides, I have been under the impression that he left during ME2's development, and at some point along the way there, ceded the larger direction to other parties.

 

He's not infallible, and almost everything he's written outside of ME I've not been a fan of, but Mass Effect 1 was a nicely contained, well-executed little story. ME2 had way too many characters for it's own good, and being railroaded into working for Cerberus (and the eventual "we've always been at war with the synthetics" bullshit) was just... so, so dumb. Minute to minute, the games and story were still pretty good, with a few great characters here and there, and the gameplay just got better and better, but the overarching narrative is just a waste to me.

 

Doesn't completely ruin what is otherwise my favorite fictional setting, but makes me hope that ME4 is very, very different.

[Fidite Nemini]

This only really applies to quests that don't have to do with stabilizing the region. So, for example, putting flowers on a grave. For quests such as ram meat and setting up watchtowers for the Redcliffe farm, they are a part of restoring order to the zone, which is a part of the main goal of the Inquisition.

 

And I have said multiple times that such quests fit. But capturing a ram for a single random farmer doesn't. And the game has too many such quests.

[Thelzar]

Great news on future DA games. All three has flaws, but I've replayed all three numerous times, and I'm not done yet. I'm super-excited, as long at they continue to focus on great single-player stories.

[AlanC9]

Well - and I can't source it - someone here on the BSN recently posted a thread about an interview where he talked a bit about aborted and preliminary ideas for the larger narrative. Even the barest references he made (eg, the Reapers, as immortal beings, want to prevent a "big crunch") were better and more interesting than what we ended up with.

Yeah, we debated that stuff to death on the ME boards. The other proposed endings all turned out to have their own problems, due to the non-rational Reaper behavior established in ME1. I've come around to the idea that the fundamental problem wasn't irrational Reaper behavior per se, but having the Reapers shape their whole civilization around that irrationality. But that's just a symptom of putting stuff in a game with the assumption that you'll figure out why that stuff happened when you're working on a later game. I don't think that's been a problem for DA yet.

[CronoDragoon]

Well - and I can't source it - someone here on the BSN recently posted a thread about an interview where he talked a bit about aborted and preliminary ideas for the larger narrative. Even the barest references he made (eg, the Reapers, as immortal beings, want to prevent a "big crunch") were better and more interesting than what we ended up with. Besides, I have been under the impression that he left during ME2's development, and at some point along the way there, ceded the larger direction to other parties.

 

Reapers wanting to prevent a big crunch is indeed an interesting concept, but the issue is that it only works if we throw out the entire Mass Effect setting, what with Reapers building and letting us use things that directly contribute to said big crunch.

 

In other words, it takes the flaws of the ending we got and makes them worse.

[United Servo Academy Choir]

Yeah, we debated that stuff to death on the ME boards. The other proposed endings all turned out to have their own problems, due to the non-rational Reaper behavior established in ME1. I've come around to the idea that the fundamental problem wasn't irrational Reaper behavior per se, but having the Reapers shape their whole civilization around that irrationality. But that's just a symptom of putting stuff in a game with the assumption that you'll figure out why that stuff happened when you're working on a later game. I don't think that's been a problem for DA yet.

 

Yeah, I've been pretty happy with the story and direction of Dragon Age overall. For whatever reason, in the end, Mass Effect just ended up leaving me cold for various reasons (probably not a widespread sentiment, although for me it softened the blow of the silly ending a bit). Which sucked, because between Thedas and the ME setting - the ME setting edges ahead, if slightly. I love it pretty hard. I'm really excited for ME4, regardless.

 

Apologies for further digression, but what was the consensus on that whole abandoned "dark energy" stuff from ME2? It was built up and then totally dropped, unless I missed something major.

 

 

Reapers wanting to prevent a big crunch is indeed an interesting concept, but the issue is that it only works if we throw out the entire Mass Effect setting, what with Reapers building and letting us use things that directly contribute to said big crunch.

 

In other words, it takes the flaws of the ending we got and makes them worse.

 

I know. I just liked the cut of it's jib.

 

I mean, my issues are really with ME2.  I didn't like being completely stuck with Cerberus and I didn't like how many squadmates there were because it felt way too crowded.

 

What would have improved things massively would have been the option to ditch cerberus and rejoin the military after a certain (reasonably early) point, and henceforth have various companions locked in with either the alliance path or the cerberus path, which would make the team not so damn bloated and make for a much more interesting and satisfying game. Also, a massively different game. C'est la vie.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The problem is not that a specific Inquisitor of mine wouldn't do it. Every Inquisitor of mine wouldn't. Because there's a hole in the sky. That is a problem in a whole other scale.

No Inquisitor of yours, perhaps. But I don't see a problem unless there's no possible Inquisitor who might want do it, and that's an extremely steep filter.

Moreover, as you point out, the hole in the sky is a problem on another level. How do you go about addressing that? There are sections of the game where there are no quests available that directly advance your core objectives (unless you metagame and presume that main quests are relevant, but from the Inquisitor's point of view that's not always clear).

[Farangbaa]

Well - and I can't source it - someone here on the BSN recently posted a thread about an interview where he talked a bit about aborted and preliminary ideas for the larger narrative. Even the barest references he made (eg, the Reapers, as immortal beings, want to prevent a "big crunch") were better and more interesting than what we ended up with. Besides, I have been under the impression that he left during ME2's development, and at some point along the way there, ceded the larger direction to other parties.

Oh please. It would still have made the Reapers the saviours of the galaxy instead of beings just there to destroy you, like many people thought. It would still have lead to huge amounts of critique, because people really don't like being the problem.

Just imagine for a second the sheer amount of 'I feel betrayed!!!' topics if it turned out that you, all along, were the problem. (just like you were in what we got, btw...) Not those things you have been fighting for 3 games.

Excuse me, I mean 2 games. I dunno what the hell we did in ME2.

[Hobbit]

I think DA is getting old... I feel tired of Game of Thrones like pile of negativity. I hope developpers surprise me without such immature method.

Craft is there but problem is how they use it. If they continue to aim for cheap impacts, I would not pay.

[Lebanese Dude]

without such immature method.

 

Please...elaborate.

[dsl08002]

Its good to know that it will be more dragon age games but EA should stay away and let bioware hamdle everything. It is so importent that EA dont meddle in the production bioware doesnt need this big bad wolf to interfere.

So stay away EA!

[AlanC9]

Apologies for further digression, but what was the consensus on that whole abandoned "dark energy" stuff from ME2? It was built up and then totally dropped, unless I missed something major.
 

CronoDragoon covered the problem with mass effect technology itself leading to a disaster for the universe; the Reaoers are letting, even encouraging organics to use that technology. In cases where the Reapers are trying to fix a general problem with the universe, the problem is the uselessness of their methods. Organics can't develop useful technology because they're harvested right at the point where they start to approach the Reapers' own tech. If the point is to make organics evolve, letting them develop interstellar travel is not helpful, and completely wiping out species because they've become technological is counterproductive. Turning organics into more Reapers who can then figure out some solution works a little better. The problem is that the harvesting method is highly inefficient if you're trying to maximize your yield of organics.

[phantomrachie]

That's for you to decide. That's how roleplaying games work. If you don't think your character would do something, you can have him not do it.

How is this even a complaint?

 

I agree completely. If you think a quest is stupid or doesn't make sense for your Inquisitor to do, than don't do it. That is one of the benefits of a side quest.

 

There could even be different reasons for doing something, for example my Human Inquisitor hunted rams to feed the refugees because she felt it was the right thing to do. They were starving because of the Mage/Templar War and she felt that one of the many goals of the Inquisition was to help the victims of that conflict.

 

My Qunari Inquisitor did it ( and other quests like it) because she felt like her being a Qunari frightened people and that the Inquisition needed all the good will it could get, so she performed these smalls tasks to foster good will towards her and the Inquisition.

 

My Human Inquisitor didn't find the stolen wedding ring or put flowers on a grave because shes the Inquisitor not an errand girl. My Qunari Inquisitor did, to help foster good will for her and the Inquisition.

 

It's a role playing game, one that gives you the freedom to choose how your Inquisitor reacts to situations, so choose. 

[Melca36]

I agree completely. If you think a quest is stupid or doesn't make sense for your Inquisitor to do, than don't do it. That is one of the benefits of a side quest.

 

There could even be different reasons for doing something, for example my Human Inquisitor hunted rams to feed the refugees because she felt it was the right thing to do. They were starving because of the Mage/Templar War and she felt that one of the many goals of the Inquisition was to help the victims of that conflict.

 

My Qunari Inquisitor did it ( and other quests like it) because she felt like her being a Qunari frightened people and that the Inquisition needed all the good will it could get, so she performed these smalls tasks to foster good will towards her and the Inquisition.

 

My Human Inquisitor didn't find the stolen wedding ring or put flowers on a grave because shes the Inquisitor not an errand girl. My Qunari Inquisitor did, to help foster good will for her and the Inquisition.

 

It's a role playing game, one that gives you the freedom to choose how your Inquisitor reacts to situations, so choose. 

 

 

Excellent post. I agree 100% Sadly I think alot of people have forgotten what role playing means.

[United Servo Academy Choir]

lol what? the dark energy plot sounds even more ridiculous than what we got
but this is just classic when people are not satisfied DREW would have done it all better am I right?
the trilogy had its problems but I just fail to see how ME 1 had such a good story
Bioware games were always more about the awesome characters but I guess nostalgia is a powerful thing -.-

 

Maybe that was premature. Possibly I'd be disappointed either way. That's not exactly a point in favor of what we have, though.

 

ME1 didn't have an earth-shattering story (I can't think of a Bioware game that does have an utterly original story, frankly, though DA2 comes closer to that mark than any others), but I maintain that it had a very well-executed story. I think the direction they took it in was stupid, and the cast was too damn big in ME2. More than a few of the characters in that game left me cold, and if you want to complain about a game being all-side missions... yeah, there you go. Obviously, the game part was improved drastically in ME2 and ME3.

 

YMMV, of course.

[Draining Dragon]

lol what? the dark energy plot sounds even more ridiculous than what we got
but this is just classic when people are not satisfied DREW would have done it all better am I right?
the trilogy had its problems but I just fail to see how ME 1 had such a good story
Bioware games were always more about the awesome characters but I guess nostalgia is a powerful thing -.-

The biggest problem with the ME3 ending was the deus ex machina (literally) and last minute plot switch. The dark energy ending was at least foreshadowed; as such, it would have been consistent with the series as a whole. Not to mention the fact that it would have had some relevance to mass effect technology, which is the ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE SERIES.

However, after the ME3 happy ending mod, the Extended Cut, the Citadel DLC, and the confirmation that Shepard does survive the high EMS destroy ending, I've mostly made peace with the ending.

How did we get back on this topic, anyway?

[AlanC9]

@TommyServo: OTOH, all-sidequest is a very traditional kind of RPG design. ME2's sidequest/main quest ratio is about where BG2 was, and I hear that game was well-received. Not sure where DAI fits on that spectrum since it's so playstyle-dependent.

[United Servo Academy Choir]

My fault. I'm always in the mood to complain about Mass Effect, and I popped it back on top. I didn't notice that the last post was two days ago.

[AlanC9]

How did we get back on this topic, anyway?

People keep posting about it?

From page 11, it looks like it's mostly john_sheparrd's fault.

[Vicious]

I personally think all of the game's success means that it is very possibly the worst game Bioware ever made. I'm not preordering DA4. Bioware has failed me and failed it's customers by not putting enough wimminz in it. Also basically every single relationship is both abusive and destructive. There are both too many gay people and not enough gay people. There's too much pandering to the fangirls but not enough boobies. I also hate the console players, and I hate Bioware for giving them games. They ruin gaming. They basically suck a lot. I'm also really mad at they didn't take long enough on the game- it felt really rushed. They probably should have taken seven or eight years so then I could complain they keep pushing it back because it sucks so much.

 

And it does.

 

It sucks so much that people are hate buying it. There's no other reasonable reason why people would buy this stupid game. All of these game of the year awards are rigged anyway. There's no way anyone liked it. None of their actual fans have liked a game since Origins. I didn't really like Origins when it came out either but it's certainly better than this stupid game and it's stupid huge explorable areas and deep story content. I don't like being able to do what I want. I only  got about two hours out of this game. So stupid.

 

I do like the hair options though.

 

 

 

best thing i read in a while, 10/10 easily, but be careful as sarcasm can cause brain damage.

 

too bad this has turned into a cry about mass effect 3 thread