Oh and yeah, punching Sera, while gratifying for some, would have been a bad move. Bioware probably didn't do because she is female, and hitting girls, in even the most mature video games, is highly problematic and unsettling.
Tell that to Khalisah al-Jilani.
Guest_Roly Voly_*
Well, to be honest I don't think that's a major concern for Bioware...
http://masseffect.wi...lisah_al-Jilani
EDIT: Gah, x-post.
Tell that to Khalisah al-Jilani.
Hahaha.
Forgot about her.
Talk about annoying characters.
She's completely useless to the main story, commits rash acts with little to no consideration of the broader consequences and is bigoted against minorities she deems 'backward'. I can understand why so many people dislike her.
Many people also despised her infantile sense of humour - though I must admit that I found it amusing mainly due to how other NPCs reacted to it.
I don't know..
I took her to the Sentinel Elves near the end, What Pride Had Wrought and a couple of times she seemed greatly impressed with it all, lines like "did elves build all this" and "the elven gods questions" with a wonder in her voice etc.. She seemed taken a back almost.
She was asking questions a lot to Dorian (who i also had in party) about how Elven magic seems different to the standard etc.. sadly he knew very little i wish i'd brought Solas..
To me i think that whole quest opened her eyes a lot to possibilities that not all elves and magic was evil. Even later after that quest she was still asking odd questions about it after in other zones etc..
But they're two of the best written and voice acted characters in the game I think. Vivienne has some extreme views on how mages should be handled but she's a good advisor. When she tells you that you have realize what happened at Haven was a blow to the Inquisition, or when she tells you how you need to carry yourself, to be respected, feared, capable etc. I agree with her on a lot of things that aren't about mages.
Vivienne is a great character when she's talking to you. It's really the way she's a ****** to so many other people that gets grating, especially because chances are one or two of them will be characters the player likes.
You can lol all you want but she saw right through Solas and Blackwall.
Her line about religious fanatics and what the actual existence of the Maker implies is also spot on.
I also love this banter with Cassandra.
Vivienne is a great character when she's talking to you. It's really the way she's a ****** to so many other people that gets grating, especially because chances are one or two of them will be characters the player likes.
Very true. Vivienne is like a well-meaning but rude auntie- hilarious, insightful, and better kept confined to a house instead of unleashed on the general public. My canon Inquisitor treats her like an advisor and not an adventuring buddy.
Vivienne is a great character when she's talking to you. It's really the way she's a ****** to so many other people that gets grating, especially because chances are one or two of them will be characters the player likes.
She treats Blackwall, Cole, Sera, Dorian and Solas like creap. Plus she sucks up to Cassandra and exploits Iron Bull submissive to women with horns.
Yeah, she's something of a stuck B-word to be sure.
She treats Blackwall, Cole, Sera, Dorian and Solas like creap. Plus she sucks up to Cassandra and exploits Iron Bull submissive to women with horns.
Yeah, she's something of a stuck B-word to be sure.
Though you have to be honest that her exploiting Iron Bull's submissiveness to women with horns is pretty hilarious. Especially when she uses it to have Bull try on new clothes and learn ball room dancing. 
Though you have to be honest that her exploiting Iron Bull's submissiveness to women with horns is pretty hilarious. Especially when she uses it to have Bull try on new clothes and learn ball room dancing.
Indeed.
Tell that to Khalisah al-Jilani.
Unlike Solas and Dorian I'm guessing if you try to punch Sera she'll try to kill you immediately afterwards.
The woman has no problem with self-destructive escalation.
Ha! I'd like to see Sera try.
My second inquisitor was an archer--and way superior in skill compared to Sera. Sera can brag all she wants about her "skills," but she died all the time in my playthroughs. Her AI never could utilize her specialization skills effectively without me micromanaging her. Cole only dies when you let him use his daggers. Give him a bow, and even he's better than Sera.
Oh and yeah, punching Sera, while gratifying for some, would have been a bad move. Bioware probably didn't do because she is female, and hitting girls, in even the most mature video games, is highly problematic and unsettling.
Renegade Shep was a punching machine. But... you could make it a gender-gated move. LOL. 
Bioware supposedly gathers stats from people's playthroughs. How many gamers would have punched Sera? 50%? 70%?
Cole only dies when you let him use his daggers. Give him a bow, and even he's better than Sera.
[snip]
Sera was pretty much born to kill dragons.
*Yawn* Ah yes, the Thousand Cuts exploit. Any Tempest archer can do that. My archer inquisitor is even better because she can kill things and NOT die at the same time without the use of focus.
Even without the TC+focus exploit, Sera is still too incompetent to fight without constant babysitting. I've seen her waste her skills over and over again. "Oh yes, Sera, please just waste your stamina on a subpar flask. Be as incompetent and useless as ever and then keel over, and die, because you're running straight into melee combat." To be fair, Sera and Vivienne are both guilty of this. I've never seen a less effective Tempest and KE. But at least Vivienne is articulate.
*Yawn* Ah yes, the Thousand Cuts exploit. Any Tempest archer can do that. My archer inquisitor is even better because she can kill things and NOT die at the same time without the use of focus.
Even without the TC+focus exploit, Sera is still too incompetent to fight without constant babysitting. I've seen her waste her skills over and over again. "Oh yes, Sera, please just waste your stamina on a subpar flask. Be as incompetent and useless as ever and then keel over because you're running straight into melee combat." To be fair, Sera and Vivienne are both guilty of this. I've never seen a less effective Tempest and KE.
*Yawn* Ah yes, the Thousand Cuts exploit. Any Tempest archer can do that. My archer inquisitor is even better because she can kill things and NOT die at the same time without the use of focus.
Even without the TC+focus exploit, Sera is still too incompetent to fight without constant babysitting. I've seen her waste her skills over and over again. "Oh yes, Sera, please just waste your stamina on a subpar flask. Be as incompetent and useless as ever and then keel over, and die, because you're running straight into melee combat." To be fair, Sera and Vivienne are both guilty of this. I've never seen a less effective Tempest and KE. But at least Vivienne is articulate.
Come on. You can't use the Inquisitor as an example, because the player is always superior at using any particular specialization than the companion.
As for babysitting, this is kind of an issue with everyone. Sera is no more susceptible to tricky AI than the rest of them. Only difference is that the rogues don't have special barriers or guard like the mages and warriors do, so Varric, Sera and Cole are more likely to fall if you don't babysit them, but Sera's not special about this. Varric and Cole will run right into a dragon's jaws just like the rest. For me, I've had Iron Bull fall in combat more often than everyone else, and I'm partly certain that it had a lot to do with the way I built him up, because the guy was a glass cannon for me.
*yawn* Someone too incompetent as a leader to use her properly calling Sera useless.
See had you gone with Varric being better since he's the Rogue who requires the least micromanagement, I wouldn't have laughed at you.
AI is far worse at being an Assassin since even with Stealth set to preferred, they'll still waste archery talents or waste Stealth on a pointless auto attack.
Besides, even without exploiting Thousand Cuts, Tempest and Sera are still plenty powerful.
Her being useless under YOUR command is YOUR failing as a commander.
So once again...
If me saying I brought Varric along because of his better AI would not have brought on a laugh, then that still indicates Sera's AI is inferior. Sera being useless is still a result of her (general lack of intelligence and) lack of intelligent AI.
My first playthrough was a KE-mage. She used both Varric (for the superior AI) and the Cole (for the banter). After that, I became KE, and could survive almost anything. Party composition didn't matter so much.
Now as a rogue, I don't bother with the other rogues:
It's been my experience after multiple playthroughs that with the same talents unlocked, Varric and Sera behaved pretty much identically before the spec unlock. I usually bring both of them for the bulk of the earlier quests and I had to often direct them both to put some distance between themselves and more powerful enemies. I came to the conclusion that archer companions just need to be babysat so that they actually keep their distance. Origins' archer AI puts these guys to shame.
If me saying I brought Varric along because of his better AI would not have brought on a laugh, then that still indicates Sera's AI is inferior. Sera being useless is still a result of her (general lack of intelligence and) lack of intelligent AI.
My first playthrough was a KE-mage. She used both Varric (for the superior AI) and the Cole (for the banter). My experiences with Sera's AI was based on early (pre-Skyhold) gameplay. All she did was die. After that, I became KE, and could survive almost anything. Party composition didn't matter so much.
Now as a rogue, I don't bother with the other rogues:
How is Varric's AI any better then Sera's? Can you link a video depicting frame by frame the differences between the two. Perhaps one where she repeatedly goes into melee range against a dragon for no reason, while Varric in same fight doesn't. Also, maybe you should, don't know, use your Tactics to stop her from constantly doing stuff like that. Tactics and Behaviors are so easy to use this time around that anyone could figure out how to stop combat problems like that from occurring, especially for an Archer.
I am of the opinion that the main reason that many people dislike Sera so much is not because she is irrational, unreasonable, inflexible, self-loathing (elf hating being an elf), etc...The main reason there is so much dislike and hatred for Sera is that she does not evolve. She does not change. There is no character development whatsoever. Throughout the game her character experiences very little growth regardless of what the Inquisitor does or regardless of what she experiences as part of the Inquisition.
To be Sera is to be obnoxious, uncultured, irrational, inflexible, self-loathing...and to stay that way no matter what happens...That is the source of dislike and hatred, IMO.
Yeah you are cheating, you built in the assumption that she is BLATANTLY EVIL GRRR HORRIBLE and then pretend it's because she does not change or something. Nice try I guess.
Regarding the noble during her personal quest. This is a "noble" who murders her people, her contacts, all for the same of "the game." No other reason. It wasn't some high and holy crusade of noble purpose in open combat with honored opponents or some other such crap. They were simply murdered because they became an inconvenience. That noble was the worst form of vermin and a blight on society.
Also, how, exactly, is her killing him worse than Inquisitor taking out a red templar or venatori? I wager if y'all are like me, I prefer it when I see them before they see me so I can attack unannounced and get the element of surprise. So... here's Inky wandering along, spotting someone, and just... ATTACKING TO KILL THEM. Maybe those poor bastards would have been willing to surrender, yet I don't read a whole lot about people complaining about how savage and out of control Inky is. Well, I do if it is a poor snoufleur.
I am just trying to wrap my head around how people think Sera is so bad for that particular incident when Inky does far worse all throughout the game. Remember what that "noble" had done before hand. And hell, RIGHT before that he arrowed an innocent in the chest.
*sigh*
He didn't murder her people for "the game." Yes, his shenanigans that got Sera's, and thus the Inquisition's, attention were part of "the game" and very bothersome to the common folk, but the reason he killed them? No. He killed them because of her - Red Jenny. Think about it. Red Jenny is THE boogeyman of the upper class. By all accounts, they are terrorists who ensure "someone gets a laugh, someone gets even, someone gets paid", and it's always AGAINST either you or your peers. How would you feel if one of your buddies had his vault cleared out, or a friend of a friend got "arrow in the face" for no reason you know? Red Jenny and her friends, as far as every noble who knows about them is concerned, are dangerous criminals.
And here you stumble across a nest of Red Jenny's "friends." How would YOU react, given the circumstances? Wouldn't you too lay a trap that could ultimately bring that justice-evading ringleader to justice? Wouldn't you too spring your ambush when the "friend of Red Jenny" who was supposed to lead her into the trap loudly gives you away?
Also, despite how scummy a lot of nobles can be, nobles DO serve a major role in governing the land, and simply offing them at random because you think they're scummy isn't necessarily going to make things better. Heck, what if that jerk was REALLY high up the ladder and killing him results in a succession crisis? Congrats, you just made things EVEN WORSE as people start fighting for either his position or whatever scraps they can get.
I don't hate Sera. I think she has a good side, but she also has a very ugly side... and both sides have an intersecting portion that bug me on an inherent level. Sometimes conversations with her are like walking on eggshells. If you say the right things to her, she's a pleasant enough person, but if you disagree with her on anything and can't disconnect your real-life feelings from your roleplaying in-game, it's not going to go well. Besides a lot of my own pro-mage and pro-elf bias, I'm a pragmatist who is willing to make "hard choices" for the long-term "greater good" or my perception thereof. In the grand scheme of things, Sera has a LOT of qualities that I would not put up with in real life, especially if I was in charge. My Cadash Inquisitor, however, gets along with her just fine.
'I care and I'm going to show it by not caring' doesn't exactly make a lot of sense, particularly since her brand involves rudeness and hurting people (in Josephine's case- a bucket on the head is actually a bit painful). Vivienne is the same way- she doesn't give a crap and cuts people down to size if she doesn't agree with them, she just does it in a form that's actually articulate.
Oh my god, get over the freaking bucket. Blackwall slaughtered a whole family and bathed in their blood. Solas and Morrigan did everything for greater dark gods and power, yet I don't see anyone tripping about that, in fact, the only thread I saw for Blackwall was about understanding his behavior. Iron Bull is an alcoholic mercenary who beheads people for a living. Don't you see a little bit of double standard going on here?
I feel like I get that part though, I've never been a big of fan of people that play pranks like that necessarily but it's kind of ridiculous to watch people hone in in on things like that when you have a quasi-sociopath in the party.
Vivienne and Sera are two different people completely, Sera is not cutting people down, she's taking a stand, yes, but that's what you have to do, and you are going to have to pick which side your on at some point. Vivienne is a cold robot, she cuts people down as a natural expression, two different things. .
...empathy *requires* understanding. It is literally the understanding of another's feelings. You can't accept the impossibility of understanding and then understand. Empathy is not the word you're looking for. Neither is sympathy.
Accepting the impossibility of understanding is the most understanding thing you can do.
Vivienne and Sera are two different people completely, Sera is not cutting people down, she's taking a stand, yes, but that's what you have to do, and you are going to have to pick which side your on at some point. Vivienne is a cold robot, she cuts people down as a natural expression, two different things.
I think people tend to fall on either the Vivienne or Sera side of the fence based on how one prefers their sense of humour. That is how a lot of people like to defend Sera, yes - because she's funny? I may disagree with Viv on a lot of matters, just as I do with Sera, but when push comes to shove, I personally favour Vivienne because her biting snark is much more entertaining to me than Sera's toilet humour. Not to say that Sera can't be entertaining, but I find more amusement with Vivienne's dialogue than I do with Sera's.
Well, it's nice to have my actual reactions to the characters in this game revealed. I had been laboring under the false assumption that I was indeed made to feel things by other characters like Blackwall or whoever.
I'd be interested to hear what makes you think she's empathetic. I typically would think that someone would have to have a basic amount of interest in differing beliefs or attitudes if they're going to demonstrate empathy. Sera routinely demonstrates absolutely no interest in trying to understand beliefs that don't line up with her personal philosophy.
"Routinely demonstrates absolutely no interest in trying to understand beliefs that don't line up with her personal philosophy." Again, you can put any character, any person, at the front of that sentence, and it would basically still be accurate. Again, it's empowering to be in the presence of someone going on their own path, it's disabling and weakening to have someone feeding off your own path. So, the word isn't empathy, or sympathy, it doesn't really matter, it's the experience that you feel as a result of someone else's action.
That's what she does, she doesn't linger, she has her own goals, that gives people feelings which on the whole are pretty positive, it's not really that complicated, unless you happen to prefer negative feelings for some reason.
And again, that can be planned, frequently, is planned, as a matter of fact. A person is saying this or that, appearing distant, but it's actually designed that way to relieve pressure. They could be paying very close attention to you when you think they aren't, or maybe not, it depends.
I think people tend to fall on either the Vivienne or Sera side of the fence based on how one prefers their sense of humour. That is how a lot of people like to defend Sera, yes - because she's funny? I may disagree with Viv on a lot of matters, just as I do with Sera, but when push comes to shove, I personally favour Vivienne because her biting snark is much more entertaining to me than Sera's toilet humour. Not to say that Sera can't be entertaining, but I find more amusement with Vivienne's dialogue than I do with Sera's.
I wouldn't really be against a character that came off as refined and personal at the same time, as it is though she's so robotic and empty Sera could just emote like the 5th Element girl and I'd probably prefer it still. To be honest, that's a rather easy way to consolidate people's opinions and I've probably already done that. That's not really what people are saying though, sometimes they say things like "she's incoherent" or something, but empathy, sympathy, humanity, spirit, those are not the things she lacks.
Retour en haut
