I wouldn't really be against a character that came off as refined and personal at the same time, as it is though she's so robotic and empty Sera could just emote like the 5th Element girl and I'd probably prefer it still.
Somehow, the Leeloo persona kind of fits.
I can totally see Sera watching hours upon hours of television, and reconstituting giant roast chickens from pills in a magic microwave oven.
Yeah. Because empathy comes with a certain amount of compassion and understanding, not blowing raspberries and messing with their stuff. There is, in all reality, something between 'let me tongue bathe you with kindness and compliments to show my understanding' and '****** off blah blah blah LET'S MESS WITH PEOPLE'. Sera has not quite learned that line yet. You're trying to use empathy as some vague catch all term, but empathy as known in general requires a softer touch than ARROW TO THE FACE type behaviour. Sera is rash and reactionary, and that's fine, but let's not pretend that makes her sympathetic to others in Skyhold.
I understand why Sera is the way she is. The character companions in this game are complex, but not actually difficult to understand- they have fairly straightforward goals and hopes, the complexity lies in how they explain or react to things. Sera is not a difficult person to understand. I get why she is the way she is. That doesn't mean that make her endearing to all people, and that doesn't mean she suddenly a great person to be around. I like Morrigan, but I also admit that she can be cold and bratty in the first game. I romanced Sebastian- that doesn't make me blind to the fact that he tends to be unsure of himself and it can cause harm. Sera is not this deep, mysterious person that needs to be solved like a puzzle. She is who she is, and part of who she is is that person who tends to take a scorched earth policy towards people who does not feel personal empathy for.
Empathy actually doesn't really require a softer touch. What's one of the most popular songs? Wrecking Ball, it's literally a sledgehammer and a ball going into a wall. Max chorus for max effect. You (and maybe me, who knows) personally desire empathy to have a softer touch, which is fine, and why Wrecking Ball doesn't work for you (I'm pretty sure I can make that assessment). For a lot of people though, that's enough for them and makes them feel better, even though it's hard charging, arrow in your face kind of material.
As to the second paragraph, she likes people like her, dislikes people not like her.. I mean is that really so different from most anyone or any of the DA characters?
He didn't murder her people for "the game." Yes, his shenanigans that got Sera's, and thus the Inquisition's, attention were part of "the game" and very bothersome to the common folk, but the reason he killed them? No. He killed them because of her - Red Jenny. Think about it. Red Jenny is THE boogeyman of the upper class. By all accounts, they are terrorists who ensure "someone gets a laugh, someone gets even, someone gets paid", and it's always AGAINST either you or your peers. How would you feel if one of your buddies had his vault cleared out, or a friend of a friend got "arrow in the face" for no reason you know? Red Jenny and her friends, as far as every noble who knows about them is concerned, are dangerous criminals.
And here you stumble across a nest of Red Jenny's "friends." How would YOU react, given the circumstances? Wouldn't you too lay a trap that could ultimately bring that justice-evading ringleader to justice? Wouldn't you too spring your ambush when the "friend of Red Jenny" who was supposed to lead her into the trap loudly gives you away
That's only a part of it that came much later, the other part is that these nobles were killing people to get land, what two nobles basically did was killing each others servants in order to empty the land of opponent's population and to populate it with their own servants, that what the "game" was in this particular instance. They both were jockeying for land and to claim it they had to populate it with their own people.
*sigh*
He didn't murder her people for "the game." Yes, his shenanigans that got Sera's, and thus the Inquisition's, attention were part of "the game" and very bothersome to the common folk, but the reason he killed them? No. He killed them because of her - Red Jenny. Think about it. Red Jenny is THE boogeyman of the upper class. By all accounts, they are terrorists who ensure "someone gets a laugh, someone gets even, someone gets paid", and it's always AGAINST either you or your peers. How would you feel if one of your buddies had his vault cleared out, or a friend of a friend got "arrow in the face" for no reason you know? Red Jenny and her friends, as far as every noble who knows about them is concerned, are dangerous criminals.
And here you stumble across a nest of Red Jenny's "friends." How would YOU react, given the circumstances? Wouldn't you too lay a trap that could ultimately bring that justice-evading ringleader to justice? Wouldn't you too spring your ambush when the "friend of Red Jenny" who was supposed to lead her into the trap loudly gives you away?
Also, despite how scummy a lot of nobles can be, nobles DO serve a major role in governing the land, and simply offing them at random because you think they're scummy isn't necessarily going to make things better. Heck, what if that jerk was REALLY high up the ladder and killing him results in a succession crisis? Congrats, you just made things EVEN WORSE as people start fighting for either his position or whatever scraps they can get.
The problem is through that the Red Jenny's almost had nothing to do with orchestrating the events that were occurring in Verichel. Sera flat out tells you that this was random tip from a group of peasants who severely dissatisfied with how they were being treated by the local nobility. Harmond apparently didn't care about that and just assumed that the Red Jennies had to be the one's behind this, and not his political enemies or the Inquisition. Anyway, Harmond was illegally attempting to claim land anyway by forcefully moving people out of it with his mercenaries. The man's actions are definitely criminal and a Ferelden trying to make a land grab in Orlais could cause a small war to break out. While yes, killing Harmond could lead to a major succession crisis back in Ferelden, compared to the dangerous machinations and violence he's committing in Orlais, I think the bigger problem would be Verichel. Also, Sera's completely fine with letting him live if use your Nobility Knowledge to recruit him while firmly controlling his actions from here on out.
I think people tend to fall on either the Vivienne or Sera side of the fence based on how one prefers their sense of humour. That is how a lot of people like to defend Sera, yes - because she's funny? I may disagree with Viv on a lot of matters, just as I do with Sera, but when push comes to shove, I personally favour Vivienne because her biting snark is much more entertaining to me than Sera's toilet humour. Not to say that Sera can't be entertaining, but I find more amusement with Vivienne's dialogue than I do with Sera's.
I have equally little use for either of them. They were amusing for a while on a first playthrough, but now they're both booted. They're similar in that they never develop, and they involve you in their little schemes with no explanation. I had to handwave the fact that my Inquisitor would never do what they ask her to do without knowing why she's doing it. I don't like handwaves, so that was the one and only time I'll do Sera's quests (I never actually did Vivienne's personal quest, just watched it on YouTube).
I'd just like to casually drop that there is only one, singular set of AI, for each skill, for each class. The reason Cole is the most superior Archer is because his Assassin specialization consists mostly of flat out damage skills. There isn't much to go wrong with.
Speaking as a passionate Artificer-Archer myself, Varric is incredibly ineffective as a trapper when on atuo pilot; just as Sera uses her flasks absolutely randomly.
Companions of the same basic class do not behave differently in any way if you give them the same skills. So Cole will always be more effective, but it's not because developers programmed varying levels of intelligence for the AI.
Jeez, I wish they did.
The program is the same for all classes but, each character does in fact behave differently. Varric and Sera both have Leaping Shot. Varric only uses it if he gets hit by a melee attack or, surrounded by enemies, Sera uses it every time it's off cooldown (assuming she isn't busy running back into range after her last leaping shot.
Yes she uses flasks randomly just as Varric uses traps randomly. Sera will also eat flask of bees grenades - yeah I'd load her up with them, NEVER take her out (she stayed in Haven) but, the next time I equipped potions, she'd be down one or two flasks of bees every time - she must have been eating them, or drinking them as the case may be.
Guest_Roly Voly_*
Psst... she puts them in Vivi's wardrobe.
That's weird.
I checked for a long time to prove that point a while ago. And I actually stopped giving Varric Leaping Shot, because just like Sera, he spammed it all the time, at any range. And it looks weird for him to even be capable of that motion athletically xD
The other thing is the Bee Flask thingy, since the AI will not use anything but health potions automatically in my game. Sera is a constant member of my group, and I always equip the Bees for RP reasons (despite them being as... well, EXACTLY as useful as you would expect a bunch of bees versus demons to be-e. I'll show myself out.), and every now and then I remember I even have them, since they're always "full".
edit: Anyways, not out to prove you wrong or anything, and I don't want to derail this topic further. I just wanted to point out to those other people, whether you think a character is stupid or not; in the light of the holy AI all of us are equally incompetent.
These are not the words and actions of a woman who is stubborn and incapable or closed to change. She has really real reasons why she is the way she is, and that includes why she might say one thing while doing another privately. At her heart, she's scared, she's alone, and she's very insecure. But that she went out of her way to "learn elfy stuff" for my Inquisitor? *sigh* My Inquisitor baked love heart shaped cookies that night.
Sera's internal struggle is based on a reaction to how the world has treated her combined with an intuition for truth, which leads to a continually contradicting worldview that I find very interesting.
For example, despite claiming to want to help the Inquisition close the Breach, she later admits she joined because she wants to see if you're really Andraste's chosen, since she believes in Andraste. At the same time, she's terrified of what it might mean if it's actually true, based on her fear of the supernatural which one imagines is grounded in bad past experiences. Similarly, post-Mythal temple, she delights that the Dalish have been shown to be delusional, but struggles to admit that in doing so the Elven Gods have been proven to have a factual basis, which actually ends up reaffirming a different sort of "elfy" truth even while demolishing the Dalish version.
Sera is atypical of BioWare companions because the Inquisitor can't wash away her issues with words and love. You can't invalidate what she's experienced in her life. Lukas said that an essential part of Sera's character is her naivete, and he's right, but that in itself is its own sort of truth. Instead of accepting the world as it is, she defends how she thinks the world should be: namely, no exploitation of the weak, and power-hungry nobles being exposed for the douches they are. The interesting thing about that belief is that it isn't grounded in unexperienced idealism but is rather a reaction to life on the streets. Rather than form her guiding principle around what is reasonable in the real world, Sera begins with a resolution and stubbornly headbutts opposition to it.
Now, I can see why that is exasperating for some, but it's for this reason that I teared up a bit when, in the victory feast, I told Sera that the Inquisition was her family and home, and she laughed and maybe cried a bit and accepted it. As a part of the Inquisition, Sera has the power to gain her small victories for the little people, which is all she cares about. Personally I think it's a noble ideal for the Inquisition to be a considerable force of power that nevertheless continues to fight for the people, something organizations forget once they become established in the big picture. In Champions of the Just, I raised the flag of the people highest, after all, which Sera liked. Then I told everyone I just picked at random which she liked even more. Contradictions, indeed!
Guest_Corvus I_*
Sera's completely fine with letting him live if use your Nobility Knowledge to recruit him while firmly controlling his actions from here on out.
I have equally little use for either of them. They were amusing for a while on a first playthrough, but now they're both booted. They're similar in that they never develop, and they involve you in their little schemes with no explanation. I had to handwave the fact that my Inquisitor would never do what they ask her to do without knowing why she's doing it. I don't like handwaves, so that was the one and only time I'll do Sera's quests (I never actually did Vivienne's personal quest, just watched it on YouTube).
Sera begins the beginning of the game with being coy about her origins. Eventually opens to you about her past and personal hatred for the nobility and their notions of pride.
Sera joins Inquisition wanting to know if Inquisitor is actually the Herald of Andraste. Comes around to the opinion that you have to be, even if you don't believe it.
Distrusts all magic and mages at the start of the game. Trusts the Inquisitor on a personal level with their magical abilities and becomes friends with Dagna.
Distrusts authority figures and organizations that claim to have the best interests of the people at heart. Feels that her place is in the Inquisition in the ending party and is willing to stay there instead of wandering aimlessly like she usually does.
Sera does change throughout Inquisition but their minor changes that deal more with her being open with about herself then the major worldview shifts in character that you see with Dragon Age 2 companions or with companions with a hardened or soften mechanic. There's no big Human Cole vs Spirit Cole choice in her story arc, which is understandably disappointing for some, but refreshing for others who are tried of seeing that predicable pivotal character moment in DA games.
Also, what "little scheme" are you referring to in regards to Sera? Is it the Verichel quest, because she explains what's going on there the best she can with what little info her contacts gave her about the place. Or was it the pranks? The pranks I can understand you being bothered about, they are undeniably childish, and I personally can't do the one against Josephine in good conscious.
I never found out. I replayed it a couple of times and had to let Sera have him everyone. His dialogue was wonderful and because of it pretentious nature his journey ended.
Why should I hate Sera? To me she is the most "real" person I've met so far in the game. No shiny half-hero-companion with a heart breaking story why he or she is like this or that. She hates nobility but only the baddies. Fine, I hate them too. She is no one who adopts your opinion so easily - just because you're a hero. She is stubborn, crazy and sometimes irrational, I love it. But she changes - it's up to you to see it.
Yes, Sera is so much like a real person and maybe that's why there is so much hate for her.
Just my humble opinion.
I did mean Verchiel. When you first get the quest, it's just that you need to send troops there. I'm not going to send troops on some vague notion that no one explains.Also, what "little scheme" are you referring to in regards to Sera? Is it the Verichel quest, because she explains what's going on there the best she can with what little info her contacts gave her about the place. Or was it the pranks? The pranks I can understand you being bothered about, they are undeniably childish, and I personally can't do the one against Josephine in good conscious.
I'll also add that I'm a huge sap for the "outcasts banding together to form something meaningful" trope. It's why I love DA2 and (half) of Inquisition's cast so much. Honestly the ending feast floored me. So many of your companions have important enough lives outside the Inquisition that I expected all of them to say they were leaving. Then you go around and Dorian, Sera, and Iron Bull all say they want to stick with you. It was touching, it really was. It made me really feel like I had built something meaningful for the world and the people in it.
Also, Sera's completely fine with letting him live if use your Nobility Knowledge to recruit him while firmly controlling his actions from here on out.
Yeah, this is the best ending of the quest for me, and I always pick it. I love snatching that guy's assets, and the following dialogue between Sera and Harmond.
Sera: Haha! Won't be hearing from you again.
Harmond: Try and return the favor.
Sera: [razzes]
I don't hate her, I just don't like her. She can be funny at times, but she is generally, as said above a racist whose rude to everyone and too immature for me to have in my party for long periods of time. That and she is amazingly rude to Cole and also rude to Solas, two of my favourite characters. My daughter and I have generally said that she must be hiding or dealing with something major, unless Bioware did actually make a one-dimensional character which I doubt. Now, granted I don't dislike her as much as I used to, but I haven't warmed to her enough to actually have her in my party for long periods of time.
She'd be fine if she'd listen and learn but, no to her it's all stupid, not really real PERIOD. She refuses to even think there might be other truths besides her own selfish view of the world as simply a place that's supposed to be nice to her and give her money and things. She has a bad case of "entitlement disease" (thinks she is entitled to the best of life just because she exists) and, she hates anyone more influential, powerful or, wealthier than her just because they have what she wants. She refuses to understand that they have it because they worked to earn and keep it, they didn't run about saying "You're stupid, you beat down, arrow in the face, breeches." and get where they are and have what they have.
They worked with others, made friends with the rich, the powerful, the nobles, worked to keep those ties and, the other gains such ties bring.
Same in life, you drop out of school, say "good enough" at mediocre quality items and, barely living pay check to pay check, you have no right to complain you don't have this or that or, don't have money for this or that - you could have done better, you chose not to. That does not give you the right to take form me, or anyone else that worked hard to get a better life than you have.
Sera thinks it does. Sorry but you don't get a good life by calling those that have a good life stupid or by killing them for not giving anything to those that have done nothing to earn it. No one learns that way. If you want to learn, and will listen, great, do that and, soon you will have better too, if you choose not to learn then stay where you are with what you have and, leave me and mine alone.
For me Sera does not deserve to be a part of the Inquisition because that will make the fortunes of all of the key players and, she does nothing to earn such good fortune, she'd stander it all and go on to tell people how the Inquisition is stupid and beats down, then find more chits like herself to kill you all because you had more wealth and power than she did - AFTER she wasted the opportunity to be right there with you.
Viv is a bower hungry beotch but, she does what it takes to get what she wants in life, even if it's distasteful to her. She knows she has to work for it, and is willing to do just that. Sera just wants to take without working for it. I can handle a arsehole that's ruthless because it's what they must do to get the life they want. I can't handle one that is a wanna be and wants it all simply handed to them.
I don't hate her, I just don't like her. She can be funny at times, but she is generally, as said above a racist whose rude to everyone and too immature for me to have in my party for long periods of time. That and she is amazingly rude to Cole and also rude to Solas, two of my favourite characters. My daughter and I have generally said that she must be hiding or dealing with something major, unless Bioware did actually make a one-dimensional character which I doubt. Now, granted I don't dislike her as much as I used to, but I haven't warmed to her enough to actually have her in my party for long periods of time.
She's best buds with Blackwall who also dislikes manipulative politics, which ends up endearing me to both of them. Honestly without Sera around Blackwall becomes a bit too rigid for my taste. Remember That Concept Art!
She'd be fine if she'd listen and learn but, no to her it's all stupid, not really real PERIOD. She refuses to even think there might be other truths besides her own selfish view of the world as simply a place that's supposed to be nice to her and give her money and things. She has a bad case of "entitlement disease" (thinks she is entitled to the best of life just because she exists) and, she hates anyone more influential, powerful or, wealthier than her just because they have what she wants. She refuses to understand that they have it because they worked to earn and keep it, they didn't run about saying "You're stupid, you beat down, arrow in the face, breeches." and get where they are and have what they have.
Considering the hereditary inheritance of titles most of them probably did not in fact work for it. Also, if this were true she'd hate the Inquisitor, which she doesn't.
Guest_Corvus I_*
I did mean Verchiel. When you first get the quest, it's just that you need to send troops there. I'm not going to send troops on some vague notion that no one explains.
She does tell you that the nobles there are harassing the local peasantry and refugees there by forcefully moving them, and that she's been asked to help by making the Inquisition appear to be interested in what's going on in the area by sending a march, hopefully making the nobility think twice about hurting the little guy.
Cullen will even verify that Sera's claims are true in war table description. So its not a random "Inky do what I say for no reason" moment with Sera. Her reasons are benign and call to the Inquisition's attention illegal activities and ends up being beneficially for the Inquisition in the end.
I think it is important to remember that Sera comes into the story as a rogue and a thief. One of the first things she tells you is that she wants things back to 'normal' so she can continue to be a rogue and a thief. Give that as the characters make up for what ever reason, she fills the part admirably. It is up to the Inquisitior the decide rather or not to support her.
Perhaps it is the bad girl I wanted to be that makes her intriguing to me. But clearly from this thread you either like her or you do not with only few saying she's ok.
That has got to be pretty high praise for the writer. I wonder if there is any significance in gender for acceptance?
I don't think I'd mind Sera so much if she were any one of these things:
1) Plot relevant within DAI
2) Capable of experiencing character growth
3) If set in her ways like Viv, capable of articulating her reasons and thought process
4) Insightful in any way regarding plot points
The other characters can meet at least one of these items.
Falling short of these points, I would have at least liked the opportunity to tell Sera, "I'm the inquisitor, the leader of a giant military/spymaster/diplomatic organization, and I have to make the best choice for all of Thedas. Sometimes, the best choice isn't always the right one, but that's what I need to do to pretty much save the friggin' world. You are nothing but a child who plays at Robin Hood, and have no clue about what it takes. Take you own advice and stuff it for a while, Sera." But no, the game, pretty much limits the PC to either bowing down to Sera's will or running her ass out of the inquisition. It's like the writers wrote Sera for the purposes of trolling the PC. "Hey, try to save the world with this annoying pebble in your shoe. You can't reason with it, so either live with it or throw it out."
She does tell you that the nobles there are harassing the local peasantry and refugees there by forcefully moving them, and that she's been asked to help by making the Inquisition appear to be interested in what's going on in the area by sending a march, hopefully making the nobility think twice about hurting the little guy.
Cullen will even verify that Sera's claims are true in war table description. So its not a random "Inky do what I say for no reason" moment with Sera. Her reasons are benign and call to the Inquisition's attention illegal activities and ends up being beneficially for the Inquisition in the end.
True, I had forgotten that Cullen comments on it, but it's so peripheral that I didn't see why Inquisition troops should be involved at all. They've got better things to do.
I think people tend to fall on either the Vivienne or Sera side of the fence based on how one prefers their sense of humour. That is how a lot of people like to defend Sera, yes - because she's funny? I may disagree with Viv on a lot of matters, just as I do with Sera, but when push comes to shove, I personally favour Vivienne because her biting snark is much more entertaining to me than Sera's toilet humour. Not to say that Sera can't be entertaining, but I find more amusement with Vivienne's dialogue than I do with Sera's.
I love them both.
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