666 réponses à ce sujet

[Raiil]

Empathy actually doesn't really require a softer touch. What's one of the most popular songs? Wrecking Ball, it's literally a sledgehammer and a ball going into a wall. Max chorus for max effect. You (and maybe me, who knows) personally desire empathy to have a softer touch, which is fine, and why Wrecking Ball doesn't work for you (I'm pretty sure I can make that assessment). For a lot of people though, that's enough for them and makes them feel better, even though it's hard charging, arrow in your face kind of material.

 

As to the second paragraph, she likes people like her, dislikes people not like her.. I mean is that really so different from most anyone or any of the DA characters?

How is a song about how another person wrecked them emotionally... I mean, what?

 

That is not empathy. I'm probably going to regret this, but I'll look up the lyrics...

 

 

.....and yeah, you're still not understanding. That is not empathy. Empathy does not mean 'things that you feel or that make you feels'. Empathy is specific. 

 

'It has feelings' =! 'it is empathetic'.

[Qun00]

I find it odd that nobody says the Tal-Vashoth are bigoted for hating the Qun, but they have a problem with Sera's dislike for her people's tradition.

And don't tell me it's because she doesn't put it nicely.

If a loyal Qunari asks a Tal-Vashoth what his opinion of the Qun is, his answer will be far from polite.

[Raiil]

I find it odd that nobody says the Tal-Vashoth are bigoted for hating the Qun, but they have a problem with Sera's dislike for her people's tradition.

And don't tell me it's because she doesn't put it nicely.

If a loyal Qunari asks a Tal-Vashoth what his opinion of the Qun is, his answer will be far from polite.

Tal-Vashoth aren't a hivemind, and realistically we haven't run into enough to get some sort of consensus. We don't know how many there are, or all of their reasons for leaving.

[Addai]

This analysis really says it all:

That's a good analysis of why she's pointlessly frustrating, yes.

 

I do disagree with his analysis of Vivienne, though. He gives her credit because she's more articulate than Sera, but just like Sera, you don't learn anything from her, she doesn't develop, and I'm pretty sure she's a sociopath. Interesting as an NPC, but I don't want her in my party and don't like having my characters be her dupes. Arguing with both of them is like smashing your head on a brick wall. Solas can be like that, but he will concede points occasionally and meets people- if not halfway, at least part of the way. And at the end of the day, both Sera and Vivienne are uniformly rude and bullying unless you bow and scrape to their way of thinking.

[jlb524]

Tal-Vashoth aren't a hivemind, and realistically we haven't run into enough to get some sort of consensus. We don't know how many there are, or all of their reasons for leaving.

 

If I were to place a bet, I'd say most leave because they hate living under the Qun.  The qunari surely don't kick people out (they'll just fix you if you're problematic) and I have a hard time believing people would leave their comfortable/stable life behind with pretty crappy opportunities awaiting them outside of qunari lands unless they really freakin hated it there.

 

I played my Vashoth Inquisitor as hating the Qun even though she never lived under it as her views would be influenced by her Tal-Vashoth parents.

[KaiserShep]

That's a good analysis of why she's pointlessly frustrating, yes.

 

I do disagree with his analysis of Vivienne, though. He gives her credit because she's more articulate than Sera, but just like Sera, you don't learn anything from her, she doesn't develop, and I'm pretty sure she's a sociopath. Interesting as an NPC, but I don't want her in my party and don't like having my characters be her dupes. Arguing with both of them is like smashing your head on a brick wall. Solas can be like that, but he will concede points occasionally and meets people- if not halfway, at least part of the way. And at the end of the day, both Sera and Vivienne are uniformly rude and bullying unless you bow and scrape to their way of thinking.

 

I'm curious as to how people came to the conclusion that either of these characters is some sort of sociopath. A sociopath, by definition, exhibits extreme antisocial behavior and a lack of conscience, but as much as some would like to believe, neither character really exhibit these traits. Honestly, the only characters I'd say comes close to this are Shale, and possibly Morrigan, or at least Origins Morrigan.

[ComedicSociopathy]

True, I had forgotten that Cullen comments on it, but it's so peripheral that I didn't see why Inquisition troops should be involved at all. They've got better things to do.

 

Helping innocent people who are being attacked by mercenaries sent by a noble who has no right to the land he's illegally claiming isn't worth the Inquisition's time? Alright.   

[ThreeF]

I'm curious as to how people came to the conclusion that either of these characters is some sort of sociopath. A sociopath, by definition, exhibits extreme antisocial behavior and a lack of conscience, but as much as some would like to believe, neither character really exhibit these traits. Honestly, the only characters I'd say comes close to this are Shale, and possibly Morrigan, or at least Origins Morrigan.

The noble in Sera's quest fits the bill, perhaps Florianne and Erimond too and probably many Orlesians who play the Game.

[Qun00]

Tal-Vashoth aren't a hivemind, and realistically we haven't run into enough to get some sort of consensus. We don't know how many there are, or all of their reasons for leaving.

It doesn't matter. Point is, they are free to reject their people's traditions, so why is it that Sera can't?

"That's different, the Qun is evil!!" Most Qunari don't think so. Culture is relative.

"But Sera should be nicer when she talks about it!" Again, I doubt the Tal-Vashoth don't sugarcoat their views either.

[Raiil]

It doesn't matter. Point is, they are free to reject their people's traditions, so why is it that Sera can't?

"That's different, the Qun is evil!!" Most Qunari don't think so. Culture is relative.

"But Sera should be nicer when she talks about it!" Again, I doubt the Tal-Vashoth don't sugarcoat their views either.

And when I get to argue about the tal-vashoth, I'll comment on it. I really have no clue as to how they'd respond. The one in DA2 seemed more sad and resigned than anything else, should I use him as a template instead?

 

I don't know if you read my posts, but 90% of my issue with Sera is that she's rude and has no empathy. I don't know how Dalish hating is suddenly a cornerstone of my argument. 

[Orian Tabris]

What is Sera's character exactly?

 

And hate to break it to you, but character flaws are part of a character's character. It is perfectly appropriate to point those out, especially when a character is comprised of mostly just flaws. I repeat:

 

Ohhh, I'm so broken up!

 

I never said they weren't, in fact, that's one of the reasons I like Sera. Heck, that's one of the reasons I like Vivienne.

 

There's nothing wrong with pointing out a character's flaws, the problem is using that as a reason to hate them.

[Addai]

I'm curious as to how people came to the conclusion that either of these characters is some sort of sociopath. A sociopath, by definition, exhibits extreme antisocial behavior and a lack of conscience, but as much as some would like to believe, neither character really exhibit these traits. Honestly, the only characters I'd say comes close to this are Shale, and possibly Morrigan, or at least Origins Morrigan.

Vivienne fits the bill. Of course, she's in good company in the Orlesian court. But I don't have to be her stooge on her way to the top. I didn't mean that Sera was. She's got whatever you'd call when people get stuck in childhood. Puer aeternus or whatever.

 

Helping innocent people who are being attacked by mercenaries sent by a noble who has no right to the land he's illegally claiming isn't worth the Inquisition's time? Alright.   

If you have some loyalty to Sera, it's worth it to get involved to secure her cooperation. Otherwise, no, not really. The Inquisition doesn't have time nor should it divert its focus to settle every petty dispute in Orlais.

[Orian Tabris]

Oh yeah, Sera is also childish and immature, but if you hate that, you must have a rod up your back...side. A humourless rod, IMO.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Ohhh, I'm so broken up!

 

I never said they weren't, in fact, that's one of the reasons I like Sera. Heck, that's one of the reasons I like Vivienne.

 

There's nothing wrong with pointing out a character's flaws, the problem is using that as a reason to hate them.

I beg to differ, if a person, be that a real one or a character in a game has flaws you refuse to associate with then, that is all the reason you need to dislike them and, remove them from your life. (not recruit Sera or, ban people form your home.) I'd expect the same of you, can't tolerate my faults that I either do not see as faults or, choose not to change, fine, I'll leave you alone, we don't have to visit or work together, I can do something else.

 

Sere would be fine if she would listen and ask questions instead of spouting of with "Stupid, beats down, shite, not really real." You could ask her if the sky was up and she'd answer "Stupid, beats down, shite, not really real." Is it raining, Sera?  "Stupid, beats down, shite, not really real." Do you like cookies, Sera.  "Stupid, beats down, shite, not really real."

 

Bioware could have done better and still portrayed an immature, selfish girl, she didn't have to be a total idiot and incapable of learning or even hearing anything constructive.

[Orian Tabris]

I beg to differ, if a person, be that a real one or a character in a game has flaws you refuse to associate with then, that is all the reason you need to dislike them and, remove them from your life. (not recruit Sera or, ban people form your home.) I'd expect the same of you, can't tolerate my faults that I either do not see as faults or, choose not to change, fine, I'll leave you alone, we don't have to visit or work together, I can do something else.

 

Sere would be fine if she would listen and ask questions instead of spouting of with "Stupid, beats down, shite, not really real." You could ask her if the sky was up and she'd answer "Stupid, beats down, shite, not really real." Is it raining, Sera?  "Stupid, beats down, shite, not really real." Do you like cookies, Sera.  "Stupid, beats down, shite, not really real."

 

Bioware could have done better and still portrayed an immature, selfish girl, she didn't have to be a total idiot and incapable of learning or even hearing anything constructive.

 

Not associating with someone is one thing, but b!tching about a fictional character on a forum, is a whole 'nother thing.

[KaiserShep]

Sera would be thrilled that we love discussing her.

[Steelcan]

Sera would be thrilled that we love discussing her.

but only those of us who aren't too elfy

[TheJediSaint]

but only those of us who aren't too elfy

There are few things worse than insufferable eflyness.

[Kimarous]

Oh yeah, Sera is also childish and immature, but if you hate that, you must have a rod up your back...side. A humourless rod, IMO.

 

Right, because all humour is childish and immature and if we don't like childish and immature "humour", we are completely humourless.

 

Fan support like this does not further endearment of the character. >_>

[stop_him]

Not associating with someone is one thing, but b!tching about a fictional character on a forum, is a whole 'nother thing.

I didn't know that disagreeing with you about a fictional character = b!tching. Also, disapproving of a character, and providing reasons is not b!tching. Besides, you might note that it was a Sera fan who started the thread.

 

I would question why Sera fans feel compelled to post on a thread that is intended for people who do not care for Sera's character. Don't you have your own thread to discuss why you find her interesting? (If creating a so called "hate" thread is a whole other thing, isn't starting an "OMG love" thread also a whole other thing?)

 

Some people think Sera is a poorly written and weak character. Here, we are telling the original poster why. Do you honestly think that you're going to change anyone's mind here? I certainly will not waste my time on the Sera fan thread declaring why she sucks. People have their reasons why they like/dislike characters.  

[Phoe77]

So, I'm pretty sure that none of the companions we've had in Dragon Age are sociopaths.  Vivienne genuinely cares for Bastien as well as the Inquisitor if you gain approval with her.  She even seems to care about Cole.  I also really don't think she lacks a conscience.  But that's neither here nor there since this is a Sera thread.

 

In regards to the Tal-Vashoth, who said that people like me who don't like Sera's hostility towards the dalish would be okay with a Tal-Vashoth's potential hatred of the Qun?  The fact is that we haven't ever come across any bigoted Tal-Vashoth characters to my recollection.  Should I be mad at them existing as a hypothetical?  

 

On a similar and non-Sera related note, it's hard to really know what the average Tal-Vashoth's opinion of the Qun would be because of the very different worldview and way of thinking that qunari have.  Until we have some evidence, I think erring on the side of caution is wiser unless you're speaking of your own character's feelings.  Speculation is cool and all, but it's not a good foundation for a debate.  

 

And btw: I like Sera's voice acting.  Just throwing that in there to remain semi-on-topic.

[DanteYoda]

What is Sera's character exactly?

 

And hate to break it to you, but character flaws are part of a character's character. It is perfectly appropriate to point those out, especially when a character is comprised of mostly just flaws. I repeat:

 

She is a Chaotic Neutral character, completely.. not Chaotic good, she is completely neutral... She delves into the good and evil aspects..occasionally..

Chaotic Neutral

A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it.

 

Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal.

 

Chaotic neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it seeks to eliminate all authority, harmony, and order in society. (Sera falls here)

 

 

http://easydamus.com...ticneutral.html

 

Chaotic neutrals tend to be insane, Sera is slightly insane, that's why i like her.

 

That said i have far more issues with say Vivienne and Solas than i ever do with Sera, Sera maybe nuts but those other two are downright evil, and should be treated as such in my opinion.

[Shahadem]

I find it odd that nobody says the Tal-Vashoth are bigoted for hating the Qun, but they have a problem with Sera's dislike for her people's tradition.

And don't tell me it's because she doesn't put it nicely.

If a loyal Qunari asks a Tal-Vashoth what his opinion of the Qun is, his answer will be far from polite.

 

Because the Qun is stupid, whereas the Elven traditions aren't hurting anyone and have helped the elves come to term with the fact that they have no land to call their own and will never be able to get any land without going to war and seizing it.

 

And the Tal Valshot have an actual reason for hating the Qun, whereas Sera hates elvish traditions just because. In fact she hates elvish traditions because she was raised to revere Andraste so to her the elves are almost barbaric for worshipping foreign gods and keeping following foreign traditions. She is incapable of understanding that this the elves culture and that there is nothing wrong with someone holding different beliefs.