666 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Loghain is a bro of the highest caliber

[Kimarous]

A sad truth throughout the entire internet. Dig deep enough and you'd wish you didn't.

 

[DanteYoda]

I must admit when Blackwalls old mate was being hung in Val Royeaux and Sera goes "wheres all the food, they usually have food at these things right?" that right there was when i fell in love with her..

 

So funny!

[TheJediSaint]

I must admit when Blackwalls old mate was being hung in Val Royeaux and Sera goes "wheres all the food, they usually have food at these things right?" that right there was when i fell in love with her..

 

So funny!

The best part was bringing her to the Winter Palace.

[KaiserShep]

I must admit when Blackwalls old mate was being hung in Val Royeaux and Sera goes "wheres all the food, they usually have food at these things right?" that right there was when i fell in love with her..

 

So funny!

 

Yeah I got a kick out of that as well. I was glad to have brought her to that on my first run. In fairness, she does acknowledge the guy briefly, with "Poor bastard", and that's it.

[Get Magna Carter]

I think that Sera is misunderstood

 

the key to understanding her is that she believes all people are equal

therefore Josephine is no more important than someone helping in the kitchens

a noble is no more important than someone working in the fields.

 

She emphasizes with and supports the multitude of "little" people and doesn't mind if helping them means playing harmless pranks on the odd person or killing a noble who has intentionally caused the deaths of multiple people.

[Hildegard]

Because even after all these raving about rule 34, *chan, reddit & tvtropes, people still can not accept a truly chaotic neutral. One, who doesn't give a flying f*** about political correctness & decorum, help her party without losing individuality. It bugs people when a truly "Grey" character just shrugs off the delusion of grandeur. Narrative or otherwise. Someone who can love her SO, without having to agree on every minuties.

 

I had held such high hopes for Aribeth from NWN, but she let me down since. Sera, however, is replacing her double quick. I haven't enjoyed a BW character's company this much since recruiting Mordin on Omega in ME2.

 

tl;dr: I adore Sera. "Around the corner, chocolate's made!" *giggle*

[Addai]

Please, Sera is not "grey." She's black and white and everything that falls in between is "full of demons." And if you're the sort of person who think your SO doesn't have to agree with everything you believe, then she's not your sort, either.

[God]

I think that Sera is misunderstood

 

the key to understanding her is that she believes all people are equal

therefore Josephine is no more important than someone helping in the kitchens

a noble is no more important than someone working in the fields.

 

She emphasizes with and supports the multitude of "little" people and doesn't mind if helping them means playing harmless pranks on the odd person or killing a noble who has intentionally caused the deaths of multiple people.

 

And she'd be wrong in that belief. People are not equal. By rationality, meritocracy, utility, wealth, power, popularity, intelligence, cleverness, what have you, some people are more important than others.

 

Yes, Josephine is far more important than the person helping in the kitchens. That noble is more important than the farmhand.

 

She has a disturbing inability to understand the big picture, or to look at the long-term issues and consequences of what might arise from her little pranks (and her not so harmless indignant acts). She's also a hypocrite: I'm not going to go on a pro-mage schpeel (since I middle on that issue, with a small alignment to the left with the mages), but She's a hypocrite because she's perfectly fine with the oppression of the mages for the greater good of the common people, but will absolutely not tolerate the suffering of the common folk for the greater good of a cause, nation, or leader.

 

As well, I am just not a fan of her vulgarity or immaturity. Besides her tendency to make farting sounds and draw butts, Sera also shows the emotional maturity of a ten-year-old at times, such as calling people "stupid" or childishly insulting them if they say something she doesn't like. Varric lampshades it in their banter after she blows off his attempts at pointing out the holes in her logic.

 

Varric: Is this the part where you tell me my face is stupid?

Sera: Your face is stu... shut up!

 

It's an outright refusal to acknowledge that she might have a problem with her ability to think, and she does this about everything. Sera's 'right' and that's the end of it. Pretty condescending and arrogant for an elf that has had no real education and isn't able to make connections for metaphors or analogies. She's not stupid (She actually has the capacity to be intelligent), she just refuses to learn. Unlike most other companions, she does not have a major shift or development of character, either from the main quest or her personal storyline. There are a few small revelations, but they do not cause any meaningful changes to her personality, and trying to get her to rethink her life or her stances on things will have no result beyond a loss of approval. She does absolutely no self-reflection of her own actions, and if the Inquisitor calls her out on any questionable decisions, she gets very upset.

 

And there's a lot of problems with her logic as far as the Dalish/Ancient Elves go with their religion and mythology.

[Hildegard]

Please, Sera is not "grey." She's black and white and everything that falls in between is "full of demons." And if you're the sort of person who think your SO doesn't have to agree with everything you believe, then she's not your sort, either.

 

It seems my definition of Grey differs from yours. I believe characters who can see the world in absolute duality & can live it happily are the best sort of "Grey" characters. Sera is Grey. Sera's perception of the world is "black & white". A causality even.

 

And considering me & my SO in real life both had a blast to play her in the game, I would say she's absolutely my "sort." IMHO.

[God]

It seems my definition of Grey differs from yours. I believe characters who can see the world in absolute duality & can live it happily are the best sort of "Grey" characters. Sera is Grey. Sera's perception of the world is "black & white". A causality even.

 

And considering me & my SO in real life both had a blast to play her in the game, I would say she's absolutely my "sort." IMHO.

 

I'd say your definition of grey is a rather incorrect one. 

 

I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm saying it to be truthful. 

 

In a black and white perspective, you cannot have a grey setting. Everyone and everything must fall onto one side or the other. There is no moral ambiguity, which is a pre-requisite for being a grey character.

 

In a grey and gray setting (which Dragon Age is), any black and white perspective has a tendency to become black and white insanity.

[ThreeF]

 

She has a disturbing inability to understand the big picture

 

More likely she doesn't want to deal with it. She embodies the outlook of common folk a lot, her views on magic and her comment about the execution at VR reflects this too.

[Hildegard]

 

I'd say your definition of grey is a rather incorrect one. 

 

I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm saying it to be truthful. 

 

In a black and white perspective, you cannot have a grey setting. Everyone and everything must fall onto one side or the other. There is no moral ambiguity, which is a pre-requisite for being a grey character.

 

In a grey and gray setting (which Dragon Age is), any black and white perspective has a tendency to become black and white insanity.

 

*giggle*   I had this same conversation so many times. I know my "Grey" is weird, but its my perception. Whether you feel it is "incorrect" has absolutely no bearing over me. Outside the schrodinger's box & all that.

 

I do not want to get sucked in a tvtropes infamous moral horizon type of discussion. I can only state what I feel about it. Sera is a "Grey" character to me, who is free to choose her "Grey options" because she sees the world in absolute duality. "Grey" is my perception for her, just like her perception for the in-game world is "Black & white".

 

And don't worry! You weren't being mean. You need to be far more ..um.. caustic, to be mean to me.   I cut my teeth in old chan4chan.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I must admit when Blackwalls old mate was being hung in Val Royeaux and Sera goes "wheres all the food, they usually have food at these things right?" that right there was when i fell in love with her..

 

So funny!

She's a practical gurl through and through.

[God]

More likely she doesn't want to deal with it. She embodies the outlook of common folk a lot, her views on magic and her comment about the execution at VR reflects this too.

 

Let's put it this way, her entire organization has no real cause beyond doing what's immediately right.

 

The Red Jenny organization strikes back against those that oppress the common people and... that's it. They have the structure and organization of a massive terrorist or political movement, but no long term plans or ideas for permanent social change whatsoever. In party banter, trying to wrap his head around this breaks Solas' brain, and he is literally the god of revolution.

[ThreeF]

Let's put it this way, her entire organization has no real cause beyond doing what's immediately right.

 

The Red Jenny organization strikes back against those that oppress the common people and... that's it. They have the structure and organization of a massive terrorist or political movement, but no long term plans or ideas for permanent social change whatsoever. In party banter, trying to wrap his head around this breaks Solas' brain, and he is literally the god of revolution.

Yep, are you (like Solas) suggest that there should be more? They don't  care for revolution, they live in a day (not a very uncommon  thing really).

[God]

Yes I am. Living in the day doesn't account of planning for tomorrow. And not planning for tomorrow might mean you'll be dead in a week.

 

It also seems that living in the day doesn't account for having a better tomorrow either. It's lazy hedonism at best.

[ThreeF]

 It's lazy hedonism at best.

I see it mostly as something very natural for people at the bottom  of the totem pole to do, for all they know they might be dead the next second.

[Heimdall]

Let's put it this way, her entire organization has no real cause beyond doing what's immediately right.
 
The Red Jenny organization strikes back against those that oppress the common people and... that's it. They have the structure and organization of a massive terrorist or political movement, but no long term plans or ideas for permanent social change whatsoever. In party banter, trying to wrap his head around this breaks Solas' brain, and he is literally the god of revolution.

As I recall, he actually thinks she has a point.

[LobselVith8]

Sera's internal struggle is based on a reaction to how the world has treated her combined with an intuition for truth, which leads to a continually contradicting worldview that I find very interesting.

 

For example, despite claiming to want to help the Inquisition close the Breach, she later admits she joined because she wants to see if you're really Andraste's chosen, since she believes in Andraste. At the same time, she's terrified of what it might mean if it's actually true, based on her fear of the supernatural which one imagines is grounded in bad past experiences. Similarly, post-Mythal temple, she delights that the Dalish have been shown to be delusional, but struggles to admit that in doing so the Elven Gods have been proven to have a factual basis, which actually ends up reaffirming a different sort of "elfy" truth even while demolishing the Dalish version.

 

The Dalish weren't "delusional", though - elven immortality was real, Arlathan was real, Elvhenan was real, and the Creators were real. Sera seems to have trouble with the Creators, to the point where she has to view them as "demons", and will break up with (a romanced) Lavellan unless she abandons her religious beliefs.

 

Sera is atypical of BioWare companions because the Inquisitor can't wash away her issues with words and love. You can't invalidate what she's experienced in her life. Lukas said that an essential part of Sera's character is her naivete, and he's right, but that in itself is its own sort of truth. Instead of accepting the world as it is, she defends how she thinks the world should be: namely, no exploitation of the weak, and power-hungry nobles being exposed for the douches they are. The interesting thing about that belief is that it isn't grounded in unexperienced idealism but is rather a reaction to life on the streets. Rather than form her guiding principle around what is reasonable in the real world, Sera begins with a resolution and stubbornly headbutts opposition to it.

 

Sera's denigration of elven culture in general - Dalish and Andrastian elves alike - is certainly a character flaw that remains with the character, no matter what.

[Guitar-Hero]

I think she's awesome, more roof-time cookies for us then.  

[Seraphim24]

Blackwall wasn't some madman out on a killing spree. Regardless of his crimes, he was going to allow himself to be put to death for it after being racked with guilt. If he was truly a sociopathic, deranged killer, he would live happily in the lie and we'd be none the wiser, or we'd just figure it out through Leliana.

 

My question is why are (many of you) bending over backwards to defend him though? And then why are (many of you) tripping over frontwards to find any possible point of contention with Sera? It would seem rather easy to hate Blackwall, but if you really squeezed me I could find room to maneuver, whereas with Sera I instinctively like her and could also find the room to dislike her based on the jokes, farts, buckets, disregard for this or that.

 

Again, reminds me of the Mannerities. Blackwall seems so noble and speaks with a colorful tone and therefore it doesn't matter that there are bodies hidden beneath the table. Whereas with Sera there's no massacred children underneath but she goes "Oy! Pass the tea ya slough! ahahahah!" And then proceeds to make fun of your haircut. Maybe I don't like either, but there's no comparison between which is less palatable.

 

The dead don't care how repentent Blackwall has become, the deeds have been done, if were looking at character flaws or reasons to hate he has so many it barely registers after a certain point. I feel similarly about Iron Bull, who kills for a living and purely at the behest of an organization sort of unquestioningly. 

 

No not even remotely.

 

That would actually make him more interesting than watching paint dry.

 

He killed with rather wanton disregard for any obvious goal, objective, or purpose, and so it seems at least a bit sociopathic. Ok, so he repents and all that, it still happened, they're still dead, and to do that he would seem at least partially or majorly detached from any kind of emotional connection to the people and all that.

 

Yeah. You really have. People will dislike any number of characters for any number of reasons. I dislike Blackwall enough that I'm still waffling over whether I want to snap him up in my canon playthrough. Vivienne is a really big jerk, if a well-spoken one. I'm still annoyed that I have to deal with Leliana when she's near the top of my most disliked non-villains in the game. But this is a thread about Sera, and so people are explaining why they don't like her. I don't dislike her enough to not hire her, I just don't care for her personality. That has nothing to do with my emotional and intellectual ability to 'get' her.

 

 

I know it's about Sera.. but I wanted to know whether someone like Blackwall triggers any kind of adverse reaction, because then I can understand better. I mean, honestly you dislike all the same characters for similar reasons possibly so then I can kind of understand why you dislike Sera more, so I guess that all makes sense.

 

Well there must be some reason why I don't really mind her (actually think she is pretty interesting). My understanding is informed not just by her character but all kinds of experiences, the particular portion of her character that pertains to that brazen side and draws an adverse reaction is something I feel fine pointing out. It's the kind of thing that might turn people off but I think people would acknowledge in retrospect. 

 

Do you like Solas or Cassandra? (If I might ask)

[Luqer]

@Kefka112

 

In the words of Skyrim's Paarthurnax:

 

"What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

 

I sympathize more with the world-weary veteran who has done some nasty crap in the past and most importantly, one who is trying to overcome their flaws through great effort.

[Raiil]

@Kefka

Im very fond of Cassandra. I detest magic eight ball head elf.