666 réponses à ce sujet

[Cecilia]

I personally found her extremely irritating for the most part. I thought it was an interesting notion to introduce an andrastian city elf who is racist about elves. She came across to me as completely ignorant and the problem for me is that worse still seemed to take pride in being completely ignorant. As a companion that was rather an issue for me. Think she could have done with a hardening/softening feature where you could influence her attitude to a degree, cementing her hatred of elvishness or opening her mind to the possibility that there's good with the bad.

 

As well as this major issue she's not a character i view as particularly funny or witty(unlike Varric). There was the odd funny line but for my taste she was often crass and unfunny.

 

Think next game i play i'll probably just not recruit her.

 

Again, I'm not bffs with Sera and my Inquizzy never really goes anywhere with her, but I think there's a big difference between Sera hating on elfy things and a human hating on elfy things - I think we have to remember that Sera isn't just a victim of classism, but also racism and she's probably internalized a lot of that as self-hate. A lot of her attitudes towards elfy-ness I see as more symptomatic of her own victimhood than anything else and it's really ... sad.

 

She's not a particularly likeable person, imo, but I really do see her as more of a victim.

[wright1978]

Again, I'm not bffs with Sera and my Inquizzy never really goes anywhere with her, but I think there's a big difference between Sera hating on elfy things and a human hating on elfy things - I think we have to remember that Sera isn't just a victim of classism, but also racism and she's probably internalized a lot of that as self-hate. A lot of her attitudes towards elfy-ness I see as more symptomatic of her own victimhood than anything else and it's really ... sad.

 

She's not a particularly likeable person, imo, but I really do see her as more of a victim.

 

Don't think there is a difference.

 

A agree Sera is a victim, that doesn't excuse her complete closed mindedness, which is why i'll likely not recruit her in future.

[Cecilia]

Don't think there is a difference.

 

A agree Sera is a victim, that doesn't excuse her complete closed mindedness, which is why i'll likely not recruit her in future.

 

It's a sociological concept that one of my good friends at college explained to me - when a human hates on elf culture, they're hating on it because it's "other" or "lesser" and they perceive themselves as being above it. When an elf hates on elf culture, they're hating on it because the culture that is imposed upon them by the dominant humans tells them that they are "other" and "lesser" because they are an elf. We see this a lot in the children of minorities who explicitly reject their ethnic culture because they perceive it as a fatal flaw that consistently defines them as being "lesser" or "different."

 

On a personal level, no, it's not right that Sera refuses to learn and serves an instrument through which the Dalish culture is continually brutalized. These traits make her an unlikeable person. However, there is a huge difference between Sera's refusal and rejection of elven culture and a human's rejection - her rejection is a result of her victimhood to the dominant human culture, the human's rejection would be a result of their own privilege. In a more meta context, Sera bears a lesser burden of responsibility to safeguard and respectfully engage with elven culture because she is not a beneficiary of the brutalization of elven culture.

 

tl;dr it's different because we humans need to check our privilege

[Dieb]

HOLY SMOKES

 

I just stumbled across the solution to Verchiel if you let Sera kill the guy. I'm glad I never let her, I still need brainbleach to not reciprocatively hate her. She's a misguided criminal teenager in my game, not a raging sadistic psycho.

 

Maker's breath o.0

[wright1978]

It's a sociological concept that one of my good friends at college explained to me - when a human hates on elf culture, they're hating on it because it's "other" or "lesser" and they perceive themselves as being above it. When an elf hates on elf culture, they're hating on it because the culture that is imposed upon them by the dominant humans tells them that they are "other" and "lesser" because they are an elf. We see this a lot in the children of minorities who explicitly reject their ethnic culture because they perceive it as a fatal flaw that consistently defines them as being "lesser" or "different."

 

On a personal level, no, it's not right that Sera refuses to learn and serves an instrument through which the Dalish culture is continually brutalized. These traits make her an unlikeable person. However, there is a huge difference between Sera's refusal and rejection of elven culture and a human's rejection - her rejection is a result of her victimhood to the dominant human culture, the human's rejection would be a result of their own privilege. In a more meta context, Sera bears a lesser burden of responsibility to safeguard and respectfully engage with elven culture because she is not a beneficiary of the brutalization of elven culture.

 

tl;dr it's different because we humans need to check our privilege

 

Don't agree whatsoever that Sera bears a lesser burden of responsibility to respectfully engage with Elven culture.

Sera is actually a lot worse than most human peasants because through the inquisition she is actually exposed to facts and experiences most peasants wouldn't be and yet she retains her prideful ignorance rather than engaging.

 

Not a fan of this silly notion of privilege checking, that's emerged as a means to try and silence debate.

[Raiil]

 

 

Well  ok, Cassandra is someone I see as having some, oh, don't want to use the E word, but ability to understand people, while also being sort of refined. Sera is just that minus the refined part, but adding a good amount of the understanding people part. So... I don't think her character is someone people haven't already experienced, but it seems to me the purely naked expression that seems to be a turn off people. The root of understanding people is kind of in "Screw this! I don't care about this!" But Sera just spitballs where Cassandra might find a less sledgehammer way of getting that across... I don't really care that much, I guess.

 

 

Cassandra is respectful of you so long as you're respectful of here. My main is an on-the-fence non-believer but so long as I don't go whinging about the evils of the Maker constantly, Cassandra acts neutrally or warmly towards me. When she mentions that I recruited the mages and I took the middle option- basically super defensive 'I did what I could do with what I was given', she gives you a look, and says 'Oh. It sounds like I'm accusing you' and apologises for coming off that way. That is disagreeing without being a jerk about it, and Sera does not give you that luxury or respect.

 

Again, 'SCREW IT, I DON'T CARE' is not empathetic or sympathetic. Sera is invested in her emotions, and she doesn't particularly care if others are 'right or wrong' either. She's all cosy with Blackwall even though he caused the death of innocents for the nobles she purports to despise, the issue you keep dragging up. Oh yes, she cares so much about the little folk that she deliberately wreaks havoc on the cooking staff in Skyhold- nothing shows support for the working man like deliberately harassing them at their work. She just oozes understanding for everyone, doesn't she?

[God]

Again, I'm not bffs with Sera and my Inquizzy never really goes anywhere with her, but I think there's a big difference between Sera hating on elfy things and a human hating on elfy things - I think we have to remember that Sera isn't just a victim of classism, but also racism and she's probably internalized a lot of that as self-hate. A lot of her attitudes towards elfy-ness I see as more symptomatic of her own victimhood than anything else and it's really ... sad.

 

She's not a particularly likeable person, imo, but I really do see her as more of a victim.

 

I can see how that might account for some of the more... elf aspects of her feelings, but for the most part, I think the issue is her outright refusal to acknowledge the veracity or perspective of any other point of view beyond her own. She's outright disdainful of anything that's not like her.

[Karai9]

I would be repeating myself to say it's dangerous to value form so much over substance. The typical Bioware fan/player/developer is pretty obsessed with form. Substantively, actually, Dragon Age as a whole is pretty air dried, characters and so on scream at the top of their lungs, and those judgment scenes, so over the top and showcasing the characters or developers independence and zeal, and yet they are actually reliant on the player's input to decide the core acts. Sera sticks out in this sea of passivity, it's absolutely of no surprise whatsoever that people would find her problematic.

 

But you know speaking of exaggeration, she doesn't come across to me as this excessive loudmouth cartoon, she seems pretty funny and biting, not just like dumb cartoon silly, in conversation and all that.

 

In fact, I can turn this around, why in the blue blazes don't more people criticize Isabella for her lack of attention to form or agreement to disagree? I really could not stand Isabella, she's the perfect grade A stereotype of a walking in your face personality. How the frik don't people dislike her for her in-eloquence. She doesn't make the fart sounds but I'd say she's actually considerably less attentive to form than Sera is overall.

 

I suspect the hatred of Sera may be more complicated. It's quite possibly she pays little heed to the form but is kind of obstinate about it. Someone like Isabella seems more easily manipulated so her unwillingness to address larger issues is considered more acceptable.

I understand your argument about form vs substance, but I think you're discounting that delivery/expressions of substance and first impressions go a very long way in the formation of people's opinions on anything, person or object. The adage of "don't judge a book by it's cover" is a great one, but it's often easier said than done, and Sera's cover is very hard not to judge for a great many players. The very first moment you encounter Sera in the game has her spouting a haphazard introduction of herself amidst a tirade about breeches, 'blah blahs' and a 'glowy herald-thingy', which I get is just how Sera is, and that's fine, but not everyone is going to like it or respond well to her. Are they judging form rather than substance? Of course they are, but that is that player's choice.

 

And that's the rub isn't it? You say you find her 'pretty funny and biting,' while I say that I find her unfunny and grating. It really comes down personality and personal preference. I concede that Sera is an interesting character underneath all of the personally irritating exterior (which I've said a few times now), that however doesn't make me enjoy her character. It doesn't matter to me how interesting a character is. An interesting character concept doesn't negate for me the obnoxious personality that we see 90% of the time with Sera.

 

In reagards to Isabella, that's just a matter of personal preference again. Part of her charm (for me at least) is her agreement to disagree. In amongst all of the hyper-opinionated, hyper-agressive personalities of DA2, Isabella was a breath of fresh air who didn't really rock the boat. She still had opinions she felt strongly about (approval/rivalry system and cutscene commentary) but she never screamed and ranted and shoved them down your throat. In terms of Isabella's or Sera's "attention to form", I feel that this is exactly why Isabella comes across more likeable to a great many people.

[KaiserShep]

I love Sera's character, but figuring out why people dislike her isn't exactly rocket surgery. These arguments about other characters are starting to feel like arguing over which ice cream is the worst.

[KaiserShep]

Your plebeian palette can't handle the goodness.

[Thrasher91604]

I think she is a bit immature, but that's part of the charm.

 

My favorite party is the three bitches: Sera, Vivienne, and Cassandra. My inquisitor just stands there and shakes his head. Hillarity ensues.

[Seraphim24]

I understand your argument about form vs substance, but I think you're discounting that delivery/expressions of substance and first impressions go a very long way in the formation of people's opinions on anything, person or object. The adage of "don't judge a book by it's cover" is a great one, but it's often easier said than done, and Sera's cover is very hard not to judge for a great many players. The very first moment you encounter Sera in the game has her spouting a haphazard introduction of herself amidst a tirade about breeches, 'blah blahs' and a 'glowy herald-thingy', which I get is just how Sera is, and that's fine, but not everyone is going to like it or respond well to her. Are they judging form rather than substance? Of course they are, but that is that player's choice.

 

And that's the rub isn't it? You say you find her 'pretty funny and biting,' while I say that I find her unfunny and grating. It really comes down personality and personal preference. I concede that Sera is an interesting character underneath all of the personally irritating exterior (which I've said a few times now), that however doesn't make me enjoy her character. It doesn't matter to me how interesting a character is. An interesting character concept doesn't negate for me the obnoxious personality that we see 90% of the time with Sera.

 

In reagards to Isabella, that's just a matter of personal preference again. Part of her charm (for me at least) is her agreement to disagree. In amongst all of the hyper-opinionated, hyper-agressive personalities of DA2, Isabella was a breath of fresh air who didn't really rock the boat. She still had opinions she felt strongly about (approval/rivalry system and cutscene commentary) but she never screamed and ranted and shoved them down your throat. In terms of Isabella's or Sera's "attention to form", I feel that this is exactly why Isabella comes across more likeable to a great many people.

 

It just doesn't really annoy me I guess, and it's the reverse with Isabella. Like you say she is more agreeable, I think she is the same personality as Sera basically but more easily intimidated and controlled. I don't really like people who seem easily controlled.

[Karai9]

It just doesn't really annoy me I guess, and it's the reverse with Isabella. Like you say she is more agreeable, I think she is the same personality as Sera basically but more easily intimidated and controlled. I don't really like people who seem easily controlled.

And that's ^ all completely valid. 

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree 

[Luqer]

The difference between Blackwall and Sera is the gravity of the violence. Sera throws buckets around, yes she pumped an arrow in a rotten noble, but on the whole, it's that these are different orders of magnitude. Again, I keep drawing the analogy to the Mannerites. Someone gets to kill a group of people because they did so first, rather than last, and were so polite afterwards? I don't care how  many times this back and forth goes on, it will never make sense to me. I'm sure those dead family members care a ton.

 

And you are saying the order does matter, it obviously doesn't to me, do I not exist or something? Everyone's accountable for every action they take in their life, from birth onwards, at least, that's how I feel. That includes Blackwall being all nice afterwards or whatever, sure, but it doesn't matter any more or less than anyone else. In fact, I would go with the freedom option easily, every time. I get the point.

Blackwall isn't acting "nice" as a form of redemption after committing the murders. His sincerity is in his actions and integrity. He's wholly devoted to serving the Inquisition (assuming the Inquisitor is a decent person) and its even admitted by Cullen that though reprehensible his actions in the past may be, Blackwall taking the fall for Mornay along with how Blackwall had shed plenty of blood to aid the cause of the Inquisition is worthy of respect. Blackwall works hard to redeem himself even if he might die before achieving redemption. That's his endearing trait; he atones through action, not politeness but we should be thankful that we do have polite companions at our side.

 

And that logic you apply about "the dead don't care". What kind of excuse is that? That one shouldn't bother to atone or work hard to better themselves and to benefit others first because the opinion of dead people are important? Its the living that matters and what is done for them. Nothing can be done for the dead but plenty can be done for the living. Blackwall even goes through effort to make a pretty well-made toy Griffon for a bunch of (non-existing in-game) children in Skyhold because he wants them to be happy. It won't bring back the nobleman's children but if Blackwall doesn't make any effort to make other children happy, then he'd truly be a piece trash. 

 

I'd like to see Sera do something nice for a bunch of children considering how much she proclaims to be a person who cares about the "little people". Sadly, Sera's words about championing the little people are barely backed up with action throughout the game as we only see her be violent to nobles but no scenes devoted to showing off her compassionate side towards the common folk. Maybe this is due to the dev decision to cut down on Sera's personal cutscenes as she is a companion that can be kicked out at any time during the game unlike other companions who can only be kicked out upon first meeting with only a few that will leave due to low approval.

[Seraphim24]

Blackwall isn't acting "nice" as a form of redemption after committing the murders. His sincerity is in his actions and integrity. He's wholly devoted to serving the Inquisition (assuming the Inquisitor is a decent person) and its even admitted by Cullen that though reprehensible his actions in the past may be, Blackwall taking the fall for Mornay along with how Blackwall had shed plenty of blood to aid the cause of the Inquisition is worthy of respect. Blackwall works hard to redeem himself even if he might die before achieving redemption. That's his endearing trait; he atones through action, not politeness but we should be thankful that we do have polite companions at our side.

 

And that logic you apply about "the dead don't care". What kind of excuse is that? That one shouldn't bother to atone or work hard to better themselves and to benefit others first because the opinion of dead people are important? Its the living that matters and what is done for them. Nothing can be done for the dead but plenty can be done for the living. Blackwall even goes through effort to make a pretty well-made toy Griffon for a bunch of (non-existing in-game) children in Skyhold because he wants them to be happy. It won't bring back the nobleman's children but if Blackwall doesn't make any effort to make other children happy, then he'd truly be a piece trash. 

 

Sure, that's why I said I'd let him go free and then do what he wants. What's done is done, but (for example if I had a female avatar) not going to marry the guy kind of thing. Certain opportunities are probably gone forever as a consequence, not all of them, but some of them.

 

I'd like to see Sera do something nice for a bunch of children considering how much she proclaims to be a person who cares about the "little people". Sadly, Sera's words about championing the little people are barely backed up with action throughout the game as we only see her be violent to nobles but no scenes devoted to showing off her compassionate side towards the common folk. Maybe this is due to the dev decision to cut down on Sera's personal cutscenes as she is a companion that can be kicked out at any time during the game unlike other companions who can only be kicked out upon first meeting with only a few that will leave due to low approval.

 

She is nice, she is the nicest companion in DA:I. You just don't understand what that is because you equate pliability and agree ability as well as generalized submissiveness with nice, you aren't getting that sometimes you don't do things for the forum likes or the approval of society, sometimes you have to do things independently of all that. You come away from the encounter feeling stung but I bet she's improved people's perspectives far more than most, most certainly more than the likes of Blackwall, although she probably won't get credit for it, she knew that in the beginning.

[Masque]

I like Sera.

 

Interacting with her as a female Dalish mage was fun. She'd snark at me for being too elfy and for pushing my pro-mage agenda; I, in turn, would snark right back and then we'd go pull some pranks and eat cookies. My relationship with her felt more like sibling rivalry than anything mean spirited, and her beliefs brought some levity to the whole Chantry vs Pantheon debate. 

 

There are posts all over the forums declaring DAI as being too pro-elf/mage. I feel like Sera's character was perhaps Bioware's attempt to smooth that out a bit. She offsets Solas quite well too. 

[KaiserShep]

Maybe this is due to the dev decision to cut down on Sera's personal cutscenes as she is a companion that can be kicked out at any time during the game unlike other companions who can only be kicked out upon first meeting with only a few that will leave due to low approval.

 

How do you know that the devs made any such decision? Sera certainly didn't seem to be lacking in content compared to the rest. A number of companions seem to have considerably less, like Cole, Iron Bull and especially Vivienne.

[Jovian09]

Sera is the most honest character in the Inquisition and the one with the clearest priorities: save the people from the giant green holes in the air regardless of who's in charge. The degree of her contrast with the rest of the inner circle is her greatest strength and she always retains sight of her goals.

 

I found her to be the most rewarding to "unlock"; if you're not a Sera fan you'll likely never get her approval to the degree where she really opens up to you and actually tells you something meaningful about herself.

[stop_him]

She is nice, she is the nicest companion in DA:I. You just don't understand what that is because you equate pliability and agree ability as well as generalized submissiveness with nice, you aren't getting that sometimes you don't do things for the forum likes or the approval of society, sometimes you have to do things independently of all that. You come away from the encounter feeling stung but I bet she's improved people's perspectives far more than most, most certainly more than the likes of Blackwall, although she probably won't get credit for it, she knew that in the beginning.

Lots of "you're wrong because you just don't understand" comments. Saying I or anyone else doesn't understand Sera is just a way to disregard and devalue what someone else thinks simply because you don't agree with it. 

 

People who like Sera do so because they choose to interpret her dialogue and actions in a certain way. Same is true for people who dislike Sera.

 

My first inquisitor was a Dalish elf mage who had ZERO problems with Sera. They were besties due to my first inquisitor's rather care-free and plucky personality. As a result, I decided to roll a qunari for a Sera romance for a second playthrough. I favor "opposites attract" romances. My qunari was a calculating, disciplined, logical erudite who took action based on evidence, a real "Dana Scully." The romance was doomed to fail. My qunari took great offense at being called stupid and "efly" for expressing completely valid opinions following the quest in Mythal's temple, but because these opinions were different than Sera's, my qunari's views were "stupid." If my qunari had had dialogue options available to put Sera in her place (since quite frankly Sera's statements were utterly false) then I think I, the player, may have been able to head canon a way to continue the romance. However, Bioware really put my qunari in a corner with lack of dialogue options. My qunari told Sera that  the inquisition no longer required her services.

 

I think I have a pretty solid understanding of Sera's character, considering during my first playthrough I was able to see Sera through the eyes of an inquisitor who actually enjoyed her company. In that playthrough, my opinion was that Sera was a quirky enigma. Then, during my second playthrough, through my qunari's eyes, I saw that Sera was an immature, mean-spirited simpleton.

 

Each playthough gave me a different perspective, and both are equally valid and true. 

 

People who "hate" Sera have valid views because that is what their player experiences gave them, and visa versa.

 

Threads such as this one should phrase their questions more honestly, "How could anyone possibly have a view that differs from my own?"

[Luqer]

She is nice, she is the nicest companion in DA:I. You just don't understand what that is because you equate pliability and agree ability as well as generalized submissiveness with nice, you aren't getting that sometimes you don't do things for the forum likes or the approval of society, sometimes you have to do things independently of all that. You come away from the encounter feeling stung but I bet she's improved people's perspectives far more than most, most certainly more than the likes of Blackwall, although she probably won't get credit for it, she knew that in the beginning.

Ahem.... Cole and Varric *drops mic*. 

[Luqer]

How do you know that the devs made any such decision? Sera certainly didn't seem to be lacking in content compared to the rest. A number of companions seem to have considerably less, like Cole, Iron Bull and especially Vivienne.

That's why I said "Maybe". Still, you have a point but it is worth noting how Sera's cutscenes does not have any instances of her interacting with the other companions besides the prank cutscene where Josephine attempts to scold Sera. Not to mention the Wicked Grace game where Sera appears only at the end, under the table. Its almost as if her cutscenes were directed in a way that, as a "kick out at any time" companion, her absence will not affect the other companions in any way. Its almost sad and hilarious that no one asked where Sera was during the card game nor do people like Blackwall complain about Sera being possibly kicked out.

[AresKeith]

That's why I said "Maybe". Still, you have a point but it is worth noting how Sera's cutscenes does not have any instances of her interacting with the other companions besides the prank cutscene where Josephine attempts to scold Sera. Not to mention the Wicked Grace game where Sera appears only at the end, under the table. Its almost as if her cutscenes were directed in a way that, as a "kick out at any time" companion, her absence will not affect the other companions in any way. Its almost sad and hilarious that no one asked where Sera was during the card game nor do people like Blackwall complain about Sera being possibly kicked out.

 

You're really reaching there

[Vader20]

In my first run, I detested her... Now I'm on my 3rd playthrough and I really love her character and I wish there was more to her personal story and quests.

She is one of the characters I'd like to see in the future as a more mature elf, maybe ? She is totally different from the other characters and that is why I like her.

 

Wish there was a possibility to make her respect and care about her elven heritage more

[wright1978]

It just doesn't really annoy me I guess, and it's the reverse with Isabella. Like you say she is more agreeable, I think she is the same personality as Sera basically but more easily intimidated and controlled. I don't really like people who seem easily controlled.

 

Don't see anything remotely similar in the 2 characters.