666 réponses à ce sujet

[Phoe77]

Of course.  But if you're going to fault someone for a specific quality, then you should fault other people who also display that specific quality.  I fault Sera for her closed-minded and dismissive nature to things she doesn't agree with. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Elves are stuck up in the past and their superiority complex, they are also not the most culturally tolerant people, like a little members only clique, I can see why Sera would be against that.

 

Why are you stereotyping elves?

 

Zevran doesn't seem to stuck in some past, Fenris doesn't seem to be stuck in some past and most City elves don't seem to be stuck in the past. Sure they're some elves who want their own homeland like the old days but most of them are Dalish and it's kinda like their religion so what are people expecting? At least the Dalish keep to themselves, they're not like Tevinter or Qunari/Chantry religion who are out to convert everyone to their cause and beliefs.

 

I don't know why Sera acts like she's special and all other elves are brain-dead morons.

[Fredward]

She's aggressively close-minded. Really, I can get over everything else but that one. Mind you she has oodles of nuance, she's definitely not badly written. I just don't like her. I had a similar problem with Sebastian though for different reasons.

[R0vena]

I like Sera, I think she is hilarious. A bit immature? Sure, but who doesn't have their faults?)

I am actually doing my first ever (in more than 15 years of gaming) F+F romance with her just because I liked her so much in previous playthrough I wanted to see all her content.

[ThreeF]

Why are you stereotyping all elves?

 

Zevran doesn't seem to stuck in some past, Fenris doesn't seem to be stuck in some past and most City elves don't seem to be stuck in the past. Sure they're are some elves who want their own homeland like the old days but most of them are Dalish and it's kinda like their religion so what are people expecting?

 

I don't know why Sera acts like she's special and all other elves are brain-dead morons.

The majority of every single Dalish clan that I've encountered in the game behave like some special little snowflake. They all cling to their cultural identity, I can understand why and I'm not judging them for it, but that's besides the point, they are every bit of a clique that feels that their race and culture is superior. The city elves in DA2 were as stuck up in their misery and their past as the Dalish. Zevran and Fenris never were part of this elven culture to begin with.

 

edit: you really should listen to her on the rooftop, you will see that it's not about being special or "elves are stupid''

[ThreeF]

I think she presents her self as close minded, but in the conversations with her she has lots of doubts about a lot of things. Also if you do have a relationship with her, reading her journal regularly (just outside her door) implies that she is interested in changing if for no other reason than to improve her relationship with you.

 

I think this ties with her determination to act instead of being passive observer.

[ThreeF]

Of course.  But if you're going to fault someone for a specific quality, then you should fault other people who also display that specific quality.  I fault Sera for her closed-minded and dismissive nature to things she doesn't agree with. 

Sure you can, but if one going to do this, one should as well fault themselves for being dismissive, it's only fair.  One can throw faults left and right and diagonally, it is what it is.

[Ryriena]

I think she presents her self as close minded, but in the conversations with her she has lots of doubts about a lot of things. Also if you do have a relationship with her, reading her journal regularly (just outside her door) implies that she is interested in changing if for no other reason than to improve her relationship with you.

Then you have not played her romance with Dalish elf that's acts like an elf, although, I don't know what that means. She basicly gives you an ultimatum to give up who you are to be with her I would say she is not open to change.

[Phoe77]

Sure you can, but if one going to do this, one should as well fault themselves for being dismissive, it's only fair.  One can throw faults left and right and diagonally, it is what it is.

 

Really?  Should I fault myself for being dismissive even though I've considered Sera's character.  I acknowledge that she has redeeming qualities and my characters treat her as respectfully as anyone else when they meet her.  As far as I've seen, she does none of those things.  

 

Disliking someone after considering the whole of their personality isn't what I would call being dismissive.  Disliking someone because of a single superficial aspect of their personality is what I call dismissive.

[stop_him]

The thing I can't accept, is no the hatred of Sera, rather the ignorance of players who just can't see a character for what they are, and instead point out their flaws, or the players' own issues (whatever those may be).

What is Sera's character exactly?

 

And hate to break it to you, but character flaws are part of a character's character. It is perfectly appropriate to point those out, especially when a character is comprised of mostly just flaws. I repeat:

 

[ThreeF]

Really?  Should I fault myself for being dismissive even though I've considered Sera's character.  I acknowledge that she has redeeming qualities and my characters treat her as respectfully as anyone else when they meet her.  As far as I've seen, she does none of those things.  

 

Disliking someone after considering the whole of their personality isn't what I would call being dismissive.  Disliking someone because of a single superficial aspect of their personality is what I call dismissive.

I didn't said anything about disliking being the same as being dismissive. Sera was created to provoke these reactions, the fact that the dialogue options with her are what they are is not a coincidence.

 

I took great care to word my sentences very neutrally, because I didn't want you to take it personally, what I said was not aimed at  you. You said something about faulting a specific quality of being dismissive and that if one is to fault somebody for this specific quality then they should fault others as well when they exhibit it. In a way I actually agreed with you on that.

 

Sera has her reasons for being dismissive and being stubborn about things, she also has her reasons to dislike things, so it's not entirely  out of the blue and "omg random"

[Phoe77]

I didn't mean it to sound like I was taking it personally, I just wasn't sure if you were referring to me or not.  Sorry if I sounded grumpy.  

 

I agree that she has reasons for being how she is.  It just so happens that for me, all of her traits taken together make her less than likable. I do think it's a disservice to the character to let dislike of the character lead you to ignore anything good about them though.  

[Mihura]

I'll freely admit, my 1st playthough I was kind of on the fence about Sera. However, it was also a very rushed playthrough and I did not take the time to get to know her.

 

I knew I had to give Sera a fair chance my second time around. This was especially true after talking to a few friends that loved her. So my second time around, I actually paid attention and got to know her character.I really have to disagree that she is the worst from Bioware. I actually really love her character.

 

She has a lot of flaws, yes. She is slow to trust, she has a hard time taking things seriously, but she does have limits. The question is, what is character development? Is it because she doesn't conform to what the inquisitor potentially wants from her? She is unwilling to bend on something she feels strongly about. Does that somehow make her a bad person? She is upfront about everything. She doesn't pull any punches. If anything, it is the inquisitor that changes the game. 

 

The only complaint I have about Sera is how easily she is dismissed. She is not the only character that you can choose not to recruit, but she is the only character that you can get rid of without a second thought. It's almost too easy to dismiss her. That is more a problem than Sera's character any day of the week.

 

Not true.

http://youtu.be/1ALYwB8NKq0?t=6s

http://youtu.be/sXz54-GZsJg?t=6m6s

http://youtu.be/eVdHIH7hQ4M?t=1m

As for the rest I disagree mostly, Sera could had character development without a major Inquisitor influence (I told Leliana that she was not the best Divine and she still got the job). Things like dealing with her past and internal racism. All the other companions have moments of clarity, despite the Inquisitor influence. Sera unfortunately is the only one that does not, her personal quest is really weak.

Although I agree that Sera being kicked easily from the party was really bad, it is clear the devs knew what they were doing.

 

[themikefest]

I romanced her with my female dwarf.

 

She's very good with a bow

[jlb524]

It would've been hilarious if the Inquisitor can just pick anyone, and then the companion would just say no, and there would be nothing you could do about it.

Inquisitor: Sera! Hold off the demon while we make our escape!

SERA GREATLY DISAPPROVES

Sera: Pbbfffff. As if! [runs to exit]

Hawke: Well, seems it's back to us.

Stroud: Indeed.

Haha, Sera did suggest at one point that they just make a break for the exit.

But nooooo....Hawke and Stroud/Loghain/Alistair needed time to hang back and argue over who was right about the Wardens and who should sacrifice themselves.

Then ofc, the Inquisitor has to take more time to decide who stays....this could take awhile depending on their feelings for Hawke vs. the Warden....

Yeah, they should of just ran for it.

[Hexoduen]

A lot of people find her mannerisms annoying and her ideas ignorant. I adore her myself, but it requires patience.

 

Patience yes, and she's an excellent character, love the way Bioware designed her

[AxholeRose]

 

Heh, "yob" was the word I had in mind when I first met her.

[KaiserShep]

Why are you stereotyping elves?

 

Zevran doesn't seem to stuck in some past, Fenris doesn't seem to be stuck in some past and most City elves don't seem to be stuck in the past. Sure they're some elves who want their own homeland like the old days but most of them are Dalish and it's kinda like their religion so what are people expecting? At least the Dalish keep to themselves, they're not like Tevinter or Qunari/Chantry religion who are out to convert everyone to their cause and beliefs.

 

I don't know why Sera acts like she's special and all other elves are brain-dead morons.

Sera would probably approve of Zevran a great deal. From what I understand, Sera doesn't really care much for the Imperium either, which would make sense, since their nobles are very likely to sacrifice a few servants to augment their powers or something.

[Fredward]

I think she presents her self as close minded, but in the conversations with her she has lots of doubts about a lot of things. Also if you do have a relationship with her, reading her journal regularly (just outside her door) implies that she is interested in changing if for no other reason than to improve her relationship with you.

 

That makes it worse as far as I'm concerned, not better. If these thoughts/doubts didn't even occur to her I would've been frustrated but written her off, you get people like that, but she DOES have these thoughts and yet she aggressively shoots them down/runs away. I don't get that. It's antithetical to my mindset.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I have no problem with a character or, anyone having flaws, we all do. I have a problem with people that refuse to learn and, get mad when they are told they are wrong or have a flaw.

 

People that can't say "Oops, I was wrong - sorry." without flying off the handle or that try to defend themselves despite making a mistake or being wrong/at fault annoy the tar out of me and, Sera is one of those people.

 

None of us are perfect, we aren't supposed to be but, we can be mature and intelligent enough to know that someone telling us of a fault they see is not being rude or hyper critical, it's simply being honest and, is not a reason to get upset or become defensive. Accept ti, change it if you don't like it or, acknowledge the fault and move on if you are okay having that fault.

[AxholeRose]

I have no problem with a character or, anyone having flaws, we all do. I have a problem with people that refuse to learn and, get mad when they are told they are wrong or have a flaw.

 

People that can't say "Oops, I was wrong - sorry." without flying off the handle or that try to defend themselves despite making a mistake or being wrong/at fault annoy the tar out of me and, Sera is one of those people.

 

What do you think she did wrong?  I read your amusing description of your family and I get the feeling you are trying to teach/correct her, and when she rebukes you or laughs it off, it  upsets you.  I'm curious to see what she did that would warrant an apology like that.

[The Loyal Nub]

 

 

I agree with the person who says Sera and Vivienne are wonderfully written. I get far more enjoyment out of the games when I'm presented with characters whose views challenge my own, and even when I agree with some (or nearly all) of their views I like it when they are written so that not everyone else in the game agrees with them. I like it when characters aren't always polite, when they don't always think before they speak, when they put their foot in their mouths and cause offence, when they cause friction. God, the games would be boring if all the characters agreed with me. 

 

 

This hits the nail on the head for me. Personally the character that I find the most hard to like is Viv. She's too ambitious and too all about Viv. But I want her in the game. It's good to have characters that offer something more than just agreeability or perfectly ethical behavior. It makes the game more fun that not everyone is some perfect super-hero whose never had a pimple.