666 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

This hits the nail on the head for me. Personally the character that I find the most hard to like is Viv. She's too ambitious and too all about Viv. But I want her in the game. It's good to have characters that offer something more than just agreeability or perfectly ethical behavior. It makes the game more fun that not everyone is some perfect super-hero whose never had a pimple.

Pretty much.

 

I think the same could be said of people in a real life setting as well. You've probably heard the saying: "When everybody is thinking the same, nobody is thinking."

[Fredward]

The issue is more fundamental than that. If you like someone you try to do things for them. You try to change to accommodate the relationship. It is the “If you like someone you try”, part that is key. In Sera’s dialogue they capture the essence of it. “You always judge a book by its cover, then you find out by reading it if you like it.” A little abstract, but that is the truth about Sera or anyone really. Some will like her and some will not. I suppose as stereotypes go, I like her and will change her to make her more likable. But, I have patience and recognize potential.

 

You're right it IS more fundamental. The things you mentioned were cute and kind and show love. Sera, some part of her, must recognize that being more open-minded would be a 'good' thing or she wouldn't even consider doing it but she does it for the Inquisitor. She isn't willing to really try it for HER, to become a 'better' person for HERSELF but she is willing to try for the Inquisitor. I can see this as being romantic or whatever but it's just not the kind of person I'd enjoy being around. For the last bit... again, a fundamental difference I think. I am not my companions' (and much less my SO's) parent or pastor. I am not going to mould them into a better person, I do not want to. What kind of person externalizes personal growth like that? What does it say about them that they do? Nothing good, in my eyes.

 

[The Loyal Nub]

Pretty much.

 

I think the same could be said of people in a real life setting as well. You've probably heard the saying: "When everybody is thinking the same, nobody is thinking."

 

Yup! I even like how our advisers argue with each other openly at the war table i.e. Cass and Cullen favor the Templars while it's clear Josephine and Leliana (especially Leliana) are more open to the Mages. 

 

They're all good characters. BioWare does that aspect of game creation pretty solidly.

[Fredward]

Some will like her and some will not.

I doubt that may of us consciously set out to be better people in terms of open mindedness or we would not see such far right and or left diversions in society.

In my opinion, most dominate personality externalizes personal growth, but not their own. It is presented in terms of "This is the way it is." and the receiver is then expected to conform because it is what the dominate has demanded if they are to get along.

 

And ain't that just ****** tragic?
 

[Monkishgamer]

Personally, my dislike goes like this

 

Vivienne(Least Liked primarily due to, condescending mode on forever) > Sera > Solas 

 

Indifferent: Blackwall, Cole

Cassandra, Iron Bull, Dorian, Varric

[ShadowWeaver2012]

Some will like her and some will not.

I doubt that may of us consciously set out to be better people in terms of open mindedness or we would not see such far right and or left diversions in society.

In my opinion, most dominate personality externalizes personal growth, but not their own. It is presented in terms of "This is the way it is." and the receiver is then expected to conform because it is what the dominate has demanded if they are to get along.

 

I agree.

With Sera, I want to like her. But the real work is that she's the dominating personality, NOT the Inquisitor. At least for me, to romance her, I'd have to follow her lead on everything because she's so inflexible. One minute she thinks you're awesome, the next minute she thinks you suck.

 

I love her randomness, her sarcasm. Her bravery. I love how she's independant. But she has more layers, in my opinion, than any other companion, INCLUDING Solas. A lot of her layers contain a degree of self-hate. (Someone who dislikes elves so much while being an elf herself has issues. She's not just wary of them like Solas. She downright hates them. ijs) That adds a whole different level to the game. I don't always have patience for that. I am going to romance her at least once though.

[BSpud]

I like her. She's like a Dickensian Riot Grrrl.

[Steelcan]

*ugh*

 

more people saying "hating a character means they are well written"

[Addai]

I like her. She's like a Dickensian Riot Grrrl.

Ugh. She's a Gone Home character, isn't she? That put some context for me.

[Arakat]

You know, I'd probably be a lot more positive about her if she had said "Oh, you're Dalish. Hope you won't call me a flat-ear" when she met my Inquisitor. City elves have every right to point out the Dalish superiority complex, imo. But she doesn't say that. She says "Oh, you're an elf" in a disappointed tone (compare to her line to the human Inquisitor: "You're just a person"). To me, it always seemed like she thinks all elves are stupid and just want to play the victim; naturally she cares about them, in her own way, when they're one of "the little people", but she definitely doesn't fight for the elves. That's my main problem with her: my canon protagonists are heavily invested in improving things for the elves, so her human-centric views made me uncomfortable.

[Mihura]

*ugh*

 

more people saying "hating a character means they are well written"

 

If that was true Joffrey was the most well written character ever.

I did struggle with seeing what was wrong with Sera and I come to the conclusion that there is only two ways to go, or she is badly written or we are suppose to just hate her.

If the latter is true, why make her a romance? I really do not get what was the point with her. Sera is not essential to DA:I and you basically can expel her, she is not even the moral compass to the Inquisition which is something I though she would be.

[Steelcan]

If that was true Joffrey was the most well written character ever.

I did struggle with seeing what was wrong with Sera and I come to the conclusion that there is only two ways to go, or she is badly written or we are suppose to just hate her.

If the latter is true, why make her a romance? I really do not get what was the point with her. Sera is not essential to DA:I and you basically can expel her, she is not even the moral compass to the Inquisition which is something I though she would be.

Joffrey is probably partly responsible for this trend, but I'd also point to Walter White and Gus Fring and Frank Underwood

 

All of those are well written characters, but not became we hate them

[Mihura]

Joffrey is probably partly responsible for this trend, but I'd also point to Walter White and Gus Fring and Frank Underwood

 

All of those are well written characters, but not became we hate them

 

Man, I love Frank Underwood. I would put Vivienne more on that line.

Edit: Actually I would be more happy with a type of Clover character from Pay Day 2 than Sera.

[Seraphim24]

...empathy *requires* understanding. It is literally the understanding of another's feelings. You can't accept the impossibility of understanding and then understand. Empathy is not the word you're looking for. Neither is sympathy.

And Sera's code may be personal, but that doesn't negate the fact that she doesn't care about feelings on an individual basis unless she really likes someone or is scared of them (in the case of, say, Leliana in the prank quest). It is not empathetic to dump a bucket on Josephine's head, or screw around with Cullen's stuff. It's rude and shows that she either has no understanding of their personal feelings and lives or that she doesn't care.

 

Wrong. Did it ever occur to you or others here that maybe Sera gives the "appearance" of not caring, that she is intending to be viewed as someone who doesn't understand or doesn't care, that's the way share cares? That applies to all kinds of characters and people by the way, from all sorts of media, as well as reality.

 

You guys are showing your emotional inflexibility and simplicity, if someone says "I like you and I understand you," that's empathy, but if someone goes "you know what? I don't really care, lets make a joke!" this person is ignornant, etc. That's the only narrow-mindedness I see here, because that is not how it works. Sycophantic yes men and women are not the people I would call rich an empathy, they are ultimately also more untrustworthy because they have a herd mentality.

 

Why are you guys all here posting and reacting to her character? She's had the desired effect, which is to make an impact, look at the effect of her actions, it's to drag people away from their cherished world of norms and ideals and into their personal realm. A lot of people here probably prefer to be in the world of norms forever, and that's why they are reacting negatively. She's making you actually feel something. Blackwall or whoever doesn't make you feel anything, he does nothing for you, just because your reaction seems negative to you doesn't mean it actually is negative.

 

I should add that I'm not necessarily infatuated with this character, but I would definitely have her in the party for being more interesting and fun than many other comparatively more dull characters.

[ThelLastTruePatriot]

I don't hate her, but it doesn't mean I like her as a character either. Firstly it's the cockney accent, it is quite grating on the ears, I somehow can only picture her selling newspapers on a street corner in the 1800s. I also don't care for her immediate dislike of anything "elfy" I mean I can understand as a character that she doesn't really relate to other elves, but to totally dismiss everything and everyone that is "elfy" has always bothered me, especially since she as a character has such a huge problem with injustice and unfairness. She even goes on to tell you a story about how she ended up unfairly hating someone because of lies and misconception so it seems weird she herself would dismiss a culture she knows nothing about. She just seems the type to lash out at anything and everything without having a real good reason for it, no clear agenda in mind and no concept of how the world around her works.. I dunno, just think bioware has gotten real hit or miss with companion characters in their rpgs, 

[BabyPuncher]

Nobody hates Walter White. The internet is full of people quoting him and praising him for his outlook on personal power and so forth. For once, I more or less approve. Nobody hates Gus Fring either.

[Raiil]

Wrong. Did it ever occur to you or others here that maybe Sera gives the "appearance" of not caring, that she is intending to be viewed as someone who doesn't understand or doesn't care, that's the way share cares? That applies to all kinds of characters and people by the way, from all sorts of media, as well as reality.

 

 

 

 

'I care and I'm going to show it by not caring' doesn't exactly make a lot of sense, particularly since her brand involves rudeness and hurting people (in Josephine's case- a bucket on the head is actually a bit painful). Vivienne is the same way- she doesn't give a crap and cuts people down to size if she doesn't agree with them, she just does it in a form that's actually articulate.

 

 

 

You guys are showing your emotional inflexibility and simplicity, if someone says "I like you and I understand you," that's empathy, but if someone goes "you know what? I don't really care, lets make a joke!" this person is ignornant, etc. That's the only narrow-mindedness I see here, because that is not how it works. Sycophantic yes men and women are not the people I would call rich an empathy, they are ultimately also more untrustworthy because they have a herd mentality.

 

Yeah. Because empathy comes with a certain amount of compassion and understanding, not blowing raspberries and messing with their stuff. There is, in all reality, something between 'let me tongue bathe you with kindness and compliments to show my understanding' and '****** off blah blah blah LET'S MESS WITH PEOPLE'. Sera has not quite learned that line yet. You're trying to use empathy as some vague catch all term, but empathy as known in general requires a softer touch than ARROW TO THE FACE type behaviour. Sera is rash and reactionary, and that's fine, but let's not pretend that makes her sympathetic to others in Skyhold.

 

 

I understand why Sera is the way she is. The character companions in this game are complex, but not actually difficult to understand- they have fairly straightforward goals and hopes, the complexity lies in how they explain or react to things. Sera is not a difficult person to understand. I get why she is the way she is. That doesn't mean that make her endearing to all people, and that doesn't mean she suddenly a great person to be around. I like Morrigan, but I also admit that she can be cold and bratty in the first game. I romanced Sebastian- that doesn't make me blind to the fact that he tends to be unsure of himself and it can cause harm. Sera is not this deep, mysterious person that needs to be solved like a puzzle. She is who she is, and part of who she is is that person who tends to take a scorched earth policy towards people who does not feel personal empathy for.

[Phoe77]

Wrong. Did it ever occur to you or others here that maybe Sera gives the "appearance" of not caring, that she is intending to be viewed as someone who doesn't understand or doesn't care, that's the way share cares? That applies to all kinds of characters and people by the way, from all sorts of media, as well as reality.

 

You guys are showing your emotional inflexibility and simplicity, if someone says "I like you and I understand you," that's empathy, but if someone goes "you know what? I don't really care, lets make a joke!" this person is ignornant, etc. That's the only narrow-mindedness I see here, because that is not how it works. Sycophantic yes men and women are not the people I would call rich an empathy, they are ultimately also more untrustworthy because they have a herd mentality.

 

Why are you guys all here posting and reacting to her character? She's had the desired effect, which is to make an impact, look at the effect of her actions, it's to drag people away from their cherished world of norms and ideals and into their personal realm. A lot of people here probably prefer to be in the world of norms forever, and that's why they are reacting negatively. She's making you actually feel something. Blackwall or whoever doesn't make you feel anything, he does nothing for you, just because your reaction seems negative to you doesn't mean it actually is negative.

 

I should add that I'm not necessarily infatuated with this character, but I would definitely have her in the party for being more interesting and fun than many other comparatively more dull characters.

 

Well, it's nice to have my actual reactions to the characters in this game revealed.  I had been laboring under the false assumption that I was indeed made to feel things by other characters like Blackwall or whoever.  

 

I'd be interested to hear what makes you think she's empathetic.  I typically would think that someone would have to have a basic amount of interest in differing beliefs or attitudes if they're going to demonstrate empathy.  Sera routinely demonstrates absolutely no interest in trying to understand beliefs that don't line up with her personal philosophy.

[ThelLastTruePatriot]

Just as a note, Robyn Addison is not speaking cockney. She is from Belper.

 it sounds like trash to me, and I can't tell the difference

[ThreeF]

It's not about cultural believes it's about "my mother was a prideful, selfish woman who  taught me to hate myself and feel unwanted and marginalized" and "i don't know what friendship is because nobody ever gave a flying f about me" and "nobody ever accepted me, so why should I"

[Qunquistador]

Yup! I even like how our advisers argue with each other openly at the war table i.e. Cass and Cullen favor the Templars while it's clear Josephine and Leliana (especially Leliana) are more open to the Mages. 

 

They're all good characters. BioWare does that aspect of game creation pretty solidly.

I never got that impression from Josephine. Maybe it's because I never rolled a mage? I sided with the templars but I don't recall her leaning one way or the other.