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[Eliastion]

I have little hope that anyone capable of answering those questions will actually ever read this thread, but perhaps at least some of the answers are already somewhere out there and I just never stumbled upon them. Maybe someone can help me out? I have some big problems concerning Dalish lore, not where it touches on the ancient times and accuracy of dalish legends - I mean the way Dalish are in modern-day Thedas as well as some parts of their history after the Dales fell.

So... well, here we go:

 

1. The problem of tiny halla and other Dalish mounts.

Various sources tell us about Dalish knights (in the Dales) riding Hallas, the latter are also stated to be much bigger than any ordinary hart. There comes Inquisition, howwever, and ridable harts that are much bigger than any halla encountered in game. The hallas we see are, indeed, pretty small to be ridden, even by elves, and the avarels seem much too big to be pulled by halla (unless you use lots of them, really). Is that just a gameplay thing and hallas are supposed to be the size of those harts? How common are hart mounts among Dalish, really? And among other races?

 

2. The Dalish-Alamarri war/battle and timeline/lifespan question.

In Dalish elf origin (DA:O) we get to learn that the Dalish, after retreating east from destroyed Dales, decided to (or were forced to) fight with local Alamarri. However, the elf we hear of it from is, supposedly, a son of that war's veteran, while we're also told that Zathrian's three hundred year lifespan was perceived as something amazing (until it was revealed to be an effect of blood magic binding him to Lady of the Forest). Is this just a mistake and was any mention about "father" supposed to be rather something about some (much) further removed ancestor at best?

 

3. The 3-mages rule and extra mages.

There are numerous accounts of Dalish cherishing any sign of magic among their children (as the gift is not as common as it used to be), there are also a couple cases of bringing in additional mages despite having three or more, we also know that Lanaya had a competition for her position as Zathrian's first - so it would imply that the clan actually had a couple other young mages, who apparently got over her being chosen - so it doesn't seem like they got either kicked out into the woods or shipped to other clans. In DA:I however the practice of kicking mages out seems to be in effect, in one case it's apparently done to a seven year old child. Is this practice any more widespread or should we consider it some one-time occurance that generally goes against Dalish ideals?

 

4. Non-Dalish ironbark crafting.

There are numerous examples of non-dalish craftsmasters working the ironbark. Should we consider it a gameplay thing, or does it simply mean that the material being succesfully used for crafting only by the Dalish is just some myth that has little to do with reality?

 

5. Scale of Arlathvhen. 

It's stated that "the clans gather", but is that really so? From what we know Dalish are quite occupied with surviving and hunting provides them with most of their food. It seems logistically impossible to actually gather all (or most) of the clans in one place every ten years since they would invariably attract attention and they couldn't possibly feed themselves when gathered like that - and then there's the fact that gathering everyone from every corner of the continent seems like another huge logistical problem, such journey for a whole clan would most likely take years in and of itself.

Is it that that in reality only a small portion of clans makes appearance and others send some delegation or ignore the gathering completely? Or could it be that the clans are generally concentrated in the South and there is much fewer of them than it would seem seeing as they (possibly) managed to gather a respectable expeditionary army on short notice in DA:O?

 

6. How many elves are out there?

This one perhaps concerns city elves more than the Dalish, but how many elves are out there? What percentage of population do they generally constitute? One of elven occupations is stated as "farmhands", so I assume there are quite a lot "city" elves who actually live in the country, working the fields for some measly pay... I guess population of Dalish would be harder to estimate, but that would be interesting too, especially in light of the question about Arlathvhen. They seem to be numerous enough to get somewhat noticed everywhere across the continent (even by guardians in Arbor Wilds who have little to no contact with outside world), but how numerous could they actually be?

 

 

I would be thankful if anyone can point me to answers if some of my questions had been answered anywhere, even more thankful - for some new answers... But I guess chances of Bioware staff actually reading this thread aren't big  

[X Equestris]

As far as number 3 goes, there is wide variety between clans. Some are little better than bandits, some are strictly isolationist, and some actively trade with humans. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary if the mage policy varied between clans.

[Patchwork]

With #5 I would guess that everyone in Orlais and Ferelden clans goes to Arlathvhen but other clans send representatives. The Keeper and/or the First has to be there, with them  go some hunters who double as guards and perhaps even some of the more promising children. Then of course are the surplus mages who go to see if another clan needs them.    

[Roamingmachine]

A lot of this is just BW pulling retcons out of their bums. But lets get on with the show....

 

1. Retcon. This is Halla as they were as of DAO, with an elf for a size comparison:

 

2. BW messed up their timeline. Badly.

 

3. RRRRRRRETCON!  'Fewer and fewer children are born with the gift' and 'lol we has so many mages we can afford to kick some out' cannot exist in the same universe.  This was done, i suspect, so BW could go 'hurrdurr no one knows what to do with mages and the circles aren't so baaaaad'.

 

4. Gameplay i think. It's stupid, but so are mauls bigger that the wielder with heads as big as a persons torso. I haven't heard anything to suggest that Ironbark had spread beyond the Dalish.

 

5. I don't think BW entirely thought this one through. But the canon statement is still that ALL clans attend. How they do this is never explained. Patchworks explanation is as good as any.

 

6. I don't think i've ever seen any population figures, even about humans. 

[Ashagar]

The most we get is that most elves are either city elves in the south or one of the many types of slaves in Tevinter who are equal opportunity slavers. Also the majority of the population of the orlaisian ruled dales are elves and apparently the  the population of the city where the winter palace is mostly elves with a separate walled section for the human noble elite but they never get into hard numbers.

 

The Dalish themselves are implied to be a very small minority mostly living in remote areas across thadas and being descended from the few elven military forces that didn't surrender to the Orlaisians.

[Aimi]

1. The relationship between the Dalish and the halla was developed independent of any understanding of general practices of real-world animal husbandry. Halla are not the right size, and they are not used for enough purposes to make them viable for a nomadic society: the Dalish do not eat them, do not harvest their fur or skin, do not harvest their milk, and do not do any of the other things that nomads like the Sami, Bedouin etc. would. It's not worthwhile to try to develop a comprehensive understanding of how it works. It simply 'does', so that they can fulfill the story-demanded role of being forest hippies In Touch With Nature. Don't worry about it.

6. I don't think i've ever seen any population figures, even about humans.

World of Thedas Volume 1 states that Ferelden has a population of ~1 million in 9:40 Dragon. That's the only one of any kind that I can recall.

[Eliastion]

1. The relationship between the Dalish and the halla was developed independent of any understanding of general practices of real-world animal husbandry. Halla are not the right size, and they are not used for enough purposes to make them viable for a nomadic society: the Dalish do not eat them, do not harvest their fur or skin, do not harvest their milk, and do not do any of the other things that nomads like the Sami, Bedouin etc. would. It's not worthwhile to try to develop a comprehensive understanding of how it works. It simply 'does', so that they can fulfill the story-demanded role of being forest hippies In Touch With Nature. Don't worry about it.
(...)

My main issue is with descriptions of their size that seems inconsistent. As for their use, they seem to be somewhat magical, to the point where it's possibly them Dalish have to thank for their ability to semi-regularly traverse forests and mountains with their wagons... If it is so and that's where their improbable mobility comes from, that could possibly offset lack of usage beyond being means of transportation.

Also (not that it would change much) I wouldn't be so sure about the milk part. Though as for eating or using skins on regular basis for anything, yeah, I can't imagine them actually doing that.

[Aimi]

My main issue is with descriptions of their size that seems inconsistent. As for their use, they seem to be somewhat magical, to the point where it's possibly them Dalish have to thank for their ability to semi-regularly traverse forests and mountains with their wagons... If it is so and that's where their improbable mobility comes from, that could possibly offset lack of usage beyond being means of transportation.
Also (not that it would change much) I wouldn't be so sure about the milk part. Though as for eating or using skins on regular basis for anything, yeah, I can't imagine them actually doing that.

Inconsistency is a Thing when it comes to fictional settings. They change things as they need to fit their storyline. Look at how the portrayal of the Exalted March of the Dales shifted from Origins to Inquisition.

Extensive mobility isn't all that desirable anyway, because it means uncertainty. The advantage of transhumant activity is that winter and summer pasturage is well known to the nomad group; they have established relations with anybody in the area (something else that many Dalish clans, which treat most outsiders with suspicion at the very least and often hostility, tend to ignore...a real nomad group would not have the time nor the inclination nor the economic capacity for such ancient hatreds), understand the weather patterns, know about water sources and places to gain shelter, and suchlike things. Even out-and-out nomad groups primarily move within an area well known to them. Mobility in the sense of being physically able to traverse rough terrain isn't an incredibly useful thing to them - at least, not useful enough to earn the halla the place they appear to have in Dalish society.

As for harvesting the milk...well, the way in which they are discussed in the Codex implies that the halla aren't touched save for special relationships, but then again, the Dalish use them as draft animals, so I dunno. I suppose there's room in what's left unsaid for milking. But the Sami, who practice reindeer husbandry, not only milk their animals but also sell their fur and consume them; the same with Tibetan yaks. Both animals are used for draft purposes, and their dung can be used as fuel. I don't want to refer to it as "unromantic", but we simply don't see a similar attitude of maximum usage with the Dalish and their halla.

[Patchwork]

Wow you can tell I was mostly asleep when I posted upthread lol. 

 

Halla seem like herbivore mabari, they have a special connection to their herder and are said to be smarter than horses just like mabari are smarter than other dogs. In DAO if you fail to diagnose what's wrong with a halla Elora kills it and gives you the antlers which you can get made into a necklace. From that I'd assume that while halla aren't used as a food resource in general if one dies then it is harvested like any other animal and anything made from halla is probably viewed as special.

 

Milking the halla wouldn't harm them in any way so I don't see why they wouldn't be used for it. There has to be a practicality to how the dalish live or they would have died out centuries ago. 

[Koneko Koji]

Although there is nothing to prove it, I just assumed that the Dalish treated the Halla in a similar way that the Native Americans interacted with buffalo - granting them great respect, and using every single part of one when needed.

I did think the Inquisition ones were far too tiny, the Origins Halla felt like they were bigger - this may be because the Dalish specially breed their Halla so they have specific genetic traits like size, speed, etc - and that wild Halla, who have been disrupted by the demons and fade tears are just smaller because they are wild animals.

[Eliastion]

Although there is nothing to prove it, I just assumed that the Dalish treated the Halla in a similar way that the Native Americans interacted with buffalo - granting them great respect, and using every single part of one when needed.

I did think the Inquisition ones were far too tiny, the Origins Halla felt like they were bigger - this may be because the Dalish specially breed their Halla so they have specific genetic traits like size, speed, etc - and that wild Halla, who have been disrupted by the demons and fade tears are just smaller because they are wild animals.

Unfortunately, the hallas in the Dalish clan we encounter are no bigger. And yeah, I also felt as if they were much bigger in Origins, though I wasn't sure of it.

[sharkeye19]

On the topic of geting to the Arlathvhen, Last flight provides some interesting, albeit unbelievable, possible insight.

 

There, the aravels are said to fly or float through the woods like "landships", propeled by magic. I can see certain respectful and sacred use of halla blood in magic rituals used for speeding travel time. 

 

Or, the whole flight thing might be just a legend, but it's the nearest thing to an explanation if we are to take the Arlathvhen account a face-value.

 

Also, I remember somwhere said a bestiality about elven population in one of the Orlesians courts, either Val Royaux or Halamshiral  I think it was at least 10000 elves, with possibly one extra zero erased from my memory. Pretty much an exageration, I'd say.

 

Last flight also give some indirect hints towards population figures: the Ruby drrakes, a mercenary company, later guard of honor of Starkhaven Princes, were formed by some 12000 men. Or said to be, at the very least

[Kantr]

On the topic of geting to the Arlathvhen, Last flight provides some interesting, albeit unbelievable, possible insight.

 

There, the aravels are said to fly or float through the woods like "landships", propeled by magic. I can see certain respectful and sacred use of halla blood in magic rituals used for speeding travel time. 

 

Or, the whole flight thing might be just a legend, but it's the nearest thing to an explanation if we are to take the Arlathvhen account a face-value.

 

Also, I remember somwhere said a bestiality about elven population in one of the Orlesians courts, either Val Royaux or Halamshiral  I think it was at least 10000 elves, with possibly one extra zero erased from my memory. Pretty much an exageration, I'd say.

 

Last flight also give some indirect hints towards population figures: the Ruby drrakes, a mercenary company, later guard of honor of Starkhaven Princes, were formed by some 12000 men. Or said to be, at the very least

Garahels sister is a force mage and they make the wagons as light as possible to have them float. Its not the Aravels that fly

[Master Warder Z_]

World of Thedas Volume 1 states that Ferelden has a population of ~1 million in 9:40 Dragon. That's the only one of any kind that I can recall.

It also said Orlais had four times that.

[leighzard]

Garahels sister is a force mage and they make the wagons as light as possible to have them float. Its not the Aravels that fly

Yeah, but I thought she got that idea from how aravels actually work.  It's been a while since I read the book though.

Force magic, or some older elven rituals that make the aravels lighter would allow the tiny halla roaming the exhalted plains to pull them. 

 

Also the aravels themselves changed a lot from Origins to Inquisition

[Eliastion]

Yeah, but I thought she got that idea from how aravels actually work.  It's been a while since I read the book though.

Force magic, or some older elven rituals that make the aravels lighter would allow the tiny halla roaming the exhalted plains to pull them. 

 

Also the aravels themselves changed a lot from Origins to Inquisition

In Origins they were much too bulky imo, but other than that they seemed to have a pretty utilitarian design. I really miss this factor with those toys Dalish have now... but that's somewhat beside the point here  

And the problem with Halla in Exalted Plains is that they also seem to small to really carry a rider, much less a knight (especially comparing them to actual mounts that in turn seem to be kinda... big. Though I guess a Qunari inquisitor would look somewhat strange on regular-sized horse