48 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacman]

The game has so many classes it is almost impossible for me to choose a playstyle.. In new games I just pick a Rogue and roll with it, but here..

 

I want something quick and agile that is capable of dealing at least above average damage, not necessarily skilled (since I already have Neeshka ), but at very least a smooth talker (bluffer). Maybe some sort of dual wielding Ranger/Rogue (with only a single level in ShadowDancer) hybrid with average STR/INT and superb DEX would work. Get levels in Ranger until Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and then focus on developing Rogue.

 

Decisions, decisions..

[unclejoe1917]

The game has so many classes it is almost impossible for me to choose a playstyle.. In new games I just pick a Rogue and roll with it, but here..

 

I want something quick and agile that is capable of dealing at least above average damage, not necessarily skilled (since I already have Neeshka ), but at very least a smooth talker (bluffer). Maybe some sort of dual wielding Ranger/Rogue (with only a single level in ShadowDancer) hybrid with average STR/INT and superb DEX would work. Get levels in Ranger until Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and then focus on developing Rogue.

 

Decisions, decisions..

What if you built toward an Eldritch Knight with Swashbuckler (assuming you have SoZ) and Wizard?  If you took three levels of Swashbuckler, you would apply your INT bonus to your damage rolls.  You would be getting a pretty nice amount of skill points to play with per level, especially once you started getting into your EK levels.  You can cast spells and you would have the skill set available where you can go toe to toe without having to tank up.  

[Arkalezth]

Who cares if AT is not the strongest class in the game? Any of them can beat the OC, so just play whatever you think will find enjoyable.

I don't see how companions affect sneaking, other than having to tell them to stay put if you want to walk around an area while hidden.

A typical dual wielding ranger would be STR-based and take at least 21 levels for Perfect TWF. It should fit your idea of an agile warrior pretty well, and you can take a dip in bard or something for bluff or other skills.

[Pacman]

Who cares if AT is not the strongest class in the game? Any of them can beat the OC, so just play whatever you think will find enjoyable.

I don't see how companions affect sneaking, other than having to tell them to stay put if you want to walk around an area while hidden.

A typical dual wielding ranger would be STR-based and take at least 21 levels for Perfect TWF. It should fit your idea of an agile warrior pretty well, and you can take a dip in bard or something for bluff or other skills.

 

Well I actually figured the direction I want to take with my build and I believe this is a solid build for me: http://nwn2db.com/build/?208660. It has solid STR and very high DEX and more than enough skill points I believe. I'll probably change up things along the way, but at least I have a clear vision where I want my character to end up. Thanks for all the tips

[Arkalezth]

Can't see the build. You probably forgot to make it public.

[Pacman]

Can't see the build. You probably forgot to make it public.

 

Woops! It should work now

[I_Raps]

You're paying a hefty price for taking Ranger at level one instead of Rogue.  You WILL get the Ranger dialogues - but is that worth the eight skill points you lose?

[Dann-J]

I'd like to echo Arkalezth's 'do what you like' sentiment.

 

After experimenting with a halfling fighter specialising in slings, I decided to take her for a spin in my own module I'm working on. I've been having a blast taking down giants with sling bullets. She became a stone-slinging dynamo once she achieved Improved Rapid Shot at level 7 (no more attack penalty!). A ranger would have had to wait until level 11 to get the feat for free.

 

I haven't touched her dexterity since character creation (17), building up strength instead. Some decent magical slings, her high base attack bonus, and all her sling-related fighter feats keep her attack value at a decent level, while her increasing strength keeps doing more damage as she gains levels. The feats that improve critical hits have been worth their while as well.

 

When ranged combat fails to kill at a distance, she switches to a katana (a two-handed weapon for a halfling) to mop up the leftovers. If I need some additional protection in melee, I equip a shortsword and a heavy shield (she always wears fullplate). Her main downside is her lack of skills points (I concentrated on lore, intimidate and craft armour), but that's what a party of companions is for. It's always amusing when a halfling makes a successful intimidate check in a conversation though (especially against a giant!).

[PJ156]

I've been a fan of the sling as a missile weapon since I discovered the mighty properties of the sling. I'm going to take one through MOtB if I can find the mod that switches off the hunger bar. It's other benifit being simultaneous shield use, so a high dex Halfling in light armour and tumble can do quite well on AC and damage.

 

Before I do a run through though I am wondering about human vs Halfling. Halfling gets +1 to hit but the strength penalty means she's doing a point less damage vs a human counterpart. I guess she starts with a better chance to hit via the cheap dex and keeps that as she improves stats? 

 

If I go Fighter/Rogue how far is it sensible to take the sneak attack in rogue levels. I just did a build to R7 (+4D6) but each one dilutes the benifit of the high fighter BAB. I wonder if its better to hit harder less often or keep a pure fighter builds and hit more?

 

PJ 

[Dann-J]

I try to avoid using a shield with the sling, since slings benefit from the 1.5x strength bonus when used two-handed. I can't remember whether that's always a property of the sling, or whether it only applies to small creatures like halflings and gnomes (I suspect it's the latter). Although if you're going dexterity-based with not much of a strength bonus, then you might as well shield-up.

 

I tried various combinations of fighter, ranger and rogue, and found that pure fighter ended up being better in combat for a halfling slinger. You'll pay for all those extra fighter feats with a lack of skills though. Fighter/ranger will prevent the hit to BAB, and give you more skills to play with, but you'll be slower in accumulating the focus/specialisation feats (which you can only take on a fighter level, with the exception of plain-old 'Weapon Focus').

 

Halflings actually get +2 to attack with thrown weapons; the general +1 from being small (which also adds +1 to AC), and an additional +1 from the Good Aim feat.

 

The -2 to strength isn't much of a handicap, since the +2 to dexterity means you won't have to put as many points there. Once you start getting strength-increasing equipment you'll hardly notice any difference - especially in MotB where there are a host of 'giant strength' belts (up to +10), or you can enchant your own items with up to +8 strength.

[Arkalezth]

I'd go with more rogue, or ideally, assassin. You don't gain that much AB (nor damage for that matter) by focusing on fighter, but miss some serious sneak damage. A typical build would be something like 16 rogue/8 fighter/1 SD/5 whatever (which could also be more rogue), with 25+ DEX and Epic Dodge. Or 11 rogue/9 assassin/8 fighter/2 whatever.

 

In the end, it comes down to how much you want to micromanage stealth. A fighter is easier to play, whereas a rogue needs to HIPS all the time to hit with Manyshot, but s/he'll also do more damage.

 

Are you sure you get 1.5 x STR with slings? I haven't tested it, but it sounds bizarre, even for small races, doesn't make any sense (which is irrelevant, I guess), and I've never heard of any ranged weapon getting that bonus.

 

Edit: OK, I tested it with a human, a gnome and a halfling, with combat debugging enabled. I did NOT get that 1.5 bonus with anyone, although, in the case of the small races, the character sheet implies otherwise - as usual-, and I get a "weapon equipped as a two-handed weapon" message when equipping the sling. But in practice, there is no two-handed bonus. 

[Dann-J]

 

 

Are you sure you get 1.5 x STR with slings? I haven't tested it, but it sounds bizarre, even for small races, doesn't make any sense (which is irrelevant, I guess), and I've never heard of any ranged weapon getting that bonus.

 

Edit: OK, I tested it with a human, a gnome and a halfling, with combat debugging enabled. I did NOT get that 1.5 bonus with anyone, although, in the case of the small races, the character sheet implies otherwise - as usual-, and I get a "weapon equipped as a two-handed weapon" message when equipping the sling. But in practice, there is no two-handed bonus. 

 

I was going on what the wiki said. Are you suggesting there might be something wrong on the internet?

[unclejoe1917]

I was going on what the wiki said. Are you suggesting there might be something wrong on the internet?

Actually, if I had read the internet instead of the games actual manual, I wouldn't have recently wasted four points of Dexterity hoping I would get a two weapon fighting super tank when I could have dumped even more into STR and CON. 

[Arkalezth]

Are you suggesting there might be something wrong on the internet?

I wouldn't dream of it! But in all seriousness, it wouldn't be the first thing that works differently for me and another player.

 

The manual is absolute crap, yes. The wiki is usually a reliable source, but it still has the occasional error.

[PJ156]

Thanks, I shall major on rogue, not sure about assassins though, nasty, sneaky buggers they are. I'll manage without HIPS, I will just have to hope they are not looking when I sling them

 

PJ 

[Arkalezth]

Well, if you're going heavy on rogue, and even if you don't use it every 6 seconds, I still suggest taking HIPS. It only takes two feats and a level, so it's not a huge investment. Otherwise, like you said, "you will just have to hope"... and that may not be enough.

 

Plus, HIPS is the easiest way to make enemies attack someone else. After that, you can just continue flanking them.

[Dann-J]

The other (albeit expensive) option is to stock up on invisibility potions.

 

The downside to this game is the tendency for enemies to attack the party leader more often than not - even if it means running past your other party members to do it. That means that without invisibility or HIPS, your main PC is unlikely to get the most out of their sneak attack.

 

A potion of invisibility used when combat begins might short-circuit that behaviour, forcing enemies to change focus to other party members. Once that has been achieved, a sneak-attacking party leader should be able to hang back at a safe distance and do their thing with a ranged weapon, increasing the likelihood of successful sneak attacks. Shooting an enemy from behind while they're entirely focused on someone else should allow you repeated sneak attacks - which could be especially deadly while Rapid Shot is enabled.

[GCoyote]

When I have a large party I often like my party leader to be a caster or ranged weapon expert or both, hence, my liking for Arcane Archer builds. Given a variety of scrolls, wands, and elemental ammunition an archer (or other ranged weapon build) can shift fire rapidly to the most critical point of the battle at any given moment. I find that more satisfying than having to run from point-to-point to bail out a companion in trouble or tag the enemy spell caster who's about to unleash something unpleasant. 

 

As always, your results may vary. 

[Pacman]

When I have a large party I often like my party leader to be a caster or ranged weapon expert or both, hence, my liking for Arcane Archer builds. Given a variety of scrolls, wands, and elemental ammunition an archer (or other ranged weapon build) can shift fire rapidly to the most critical point of the battle at any given moment. I find that more satisfying than having to run from point-to-point to bail out a companion in trouble or tag the enemy spell caster who's about to unleash something unpleasant. 

 

As always, your results may vary. 

 

I actually ended up playing as an Arcane Archer and I'm in the same position as you. I use too many melee companions and the fights become cluster-f*** of targeting since everything dies very fast and sometimes I end up standing still waiting for rounds to end. I continued on with my initial ranger and once I hit 3 attacks per round (without rapid fire and haste) game became so much more interesting as an archer. I'm can almost one shot most "hard-to-reach-very-scary-left-alone" targets with many-shot which is very satisfying. I think I'll roll archer into other campaigns as well as I'm having fun at level 15 right now.

[GCoyote]

To be sure, some games are just not 'archer friendly'. Depends on the design of the mod or campaign you are playing. I found MotB less friendly to ranged weapons than the OC while good use of ranged weapons made most overland encounters in SoZ relatively easy. I've also played community created content that forced you to talk to everything before you killed it so your PC was always at close range when the fur started to fly. OTOH I played a module where the enemies were hostile but didn't seem to want to attack until the party crossed a trigger. I could pick them off from outside the trigger and they just stood there. 

[Dann-J]

I've exploited issues with complex walkmeshes in some modules, whereby groups of enemies have trouble figuring out how to get at you. Once they all get stuck in a certain spot they're quite easy to pick off with ranged weapons. It's often caused by too many static objects fragmenting the walkmesh into lots of tiny triangles, making it difficult for the game to calculate paths around obstacles.

[Pacman]

To be sure, some games are just not 'archer friendly'. Depends on the design of the mod or campaign you are playing. I found MotB less friendly to ranged weapons than the OC while good use of ranged weapons made most overland encounters in SoZ relatively easy. I've also played community created content that forced you to talk to everything before you killed it so your PC was always at close range when the fur started to fly. OTOH I played a module where the enemies were hostile but didn't seem to want to attack until the party crossed a trigger. I could pick them off from outside the trigger and they just stood there. 

 

Well if enemies are not hostile it is only logical that conversation would take place close to each other. I actually love HIPS and I can't imagine myself playing without it. It is so satisfying to simply vanish from sight, reposition yourself and strike again from superior position

[GCoyote]

It would be if a non-violent path quest were available. The annoyance arises when combat is the only option allowed but you are still forced to exchange pleasantries/greetings/threats/insults at point blank range prior to coming to blows. 

[Pacman]

It would be if a non-violent path quest were available. The annoyance arises when combat is the only option allowed but you are still forced to exchange pleasantries/greetings/threats/insults at point blank range prior to coming to blows. 

 

You have a fair point. I finished the OC and rather than starting MotB I started MoW. It is so refreshing to see that there are TONS of non-combat approaches and skill checks during dialog and environment interaction. It also helped that I play R/F/IB hybrid with uber high dexterity. All those sneak and non-combat approaches really shine in that campaign (at least the begining) which is very fun. I hope that MotB and SoZ has similar mechanics since they are great!