399 réponses à ce sujet

[mikeymoonshine]

They will probably focus more on addressing fan feedback when they are starting to develop the next game. 

[Giubba]

You think waiting for four months straight for a game to become playable is the definition of entitlement?

 
Yes because the game is already playable.

Yeah... I'm not sure that the hyperbole, generalizations and overall contempt in that post is really helping the argument that the toxicity is coming from Bioware haters alone.

Hyperbole? Where?

Generalization? where?

Contempt? yes a lot and this place deserve it. People like this Octarin deserve nothing but contempt.

[Fast Jimmy]

Yes because the game is already playable.

And if it wasn't?

[Giubba]

And if it wasn't?

It's playable there is no if, despite the hysteric reports (probably false and exagerated as the supposed banter "bug") there is nothing that prevent you from playing but sometime you can get some random crash as happened to me or some other random issue that didn't stopped me completing the game twice without any drama.

[berelinde]

The return of the Black Emporium? The ability to override all armor colors via tints? More crafting materials and schematics? And all this as a free patch and not DLC? More options for binding mouse buttons?*

 

I'd say "Yes! They are listening!"

 

 

 

*The last one started out as a big deal for me. It isn't anymore, as I've gotten used to my present layout and keybindings, but I can understand why some folks might be relieved to have more options. In any case, it's something that will make some folks very happy and not inconvenience the rest in the slightest, so I'd call that a win all around.

[Cypher0020]

Bioware devs were probably all LOLing the entire time, while they worked on Patch 5

 

While I squirm impatiently for it to be finished.

 

Normally I ignore patches, since it tweaks a few things in gameplay, but this is a whole other story!

 

This seems almost like a mini expansion or something then a patch

[Fast Jimmy]

It's playable there is no if, despite the hysteric reports (probably false and exagerated as the supposed banter "bug") there is nothing that prevent you from playing but sometime you can get some random crash as happened to me or some other random issue that didn't stopped me completing the game twice without any drama.

And those people who are still reporting CTD errors just by booting the game up... they are clearly hysterical, whining liars then? You don't think that's slightly... impossible for you to say?

[Octarin]

 
Yes because the game is already playable.


Hyperbole? Where?

Generalization? where?

Contempt? yes a lot and this place deserve it. People like this Octarin deserve nothing but contempt.

 

 

 

 

The game is payable for you, but it isn't for very many other people. You get off with judging others and calling them entitled, while, in essence, you are the entitled gamer here, who thinks that the world revolves around your own gaming experience and your own pleasure. The irony abounds. 

[Teligth]

And those people who are still reporting CTD errors just by booting the game up... they are clearly hysterical, whining liars then? You don't think that's slightly... impossible for you to say?

Don't feed the troll. It will just cause issues.

[Octarin]

And those people who are still reporting CTD errors just by booting the game up... they are clearly hysterical, whining liars then? You don't think that's slightly... impossible for you to say?

 

"me, mine, me, me, mine, me, me, me".

 

*Le sigh*

[Morroian]

Then you weren't here during the issues with Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 when they tried to post and they were insulted or everything they said was picked apart and twisted.  I fully understand why they don't post here anymore for even if they avoid the threads that aren't like that people see the "BioWare Tag" and rush there to get "their issues fixed".

 

They tried to have an adult conversation with us and the responses they got from trying to have a conversation with us forced them to reconsider what is more productive with their time.  If we could be more civil here even just between ourselves you might see them return, but unless we are going to be civil I don't see why they would want to return.

 

The forum mod policy has changed since DA2 and ME3 which is why its more civil now. I feel the majority of those with criticisms of the game would respond positively to genuine discussions of why certain changes were made, but they have not even tried for the most part except for selected instances like Patrick Weekes post on the lack of healing spells, which for the most part attracted a civil discussion.

[Mathias]

I'm uncertain what's being asked for, here.

 

There was a few of us who took part in the forum on our own time -- myself, Allan, John Epler, and maybe a handful of others. If we've stopped doing so, it's for our own individual reasons. Nobody told us to post, and nobody told us to stop.

 

Even when we did post, it was rarely as a means of explaining what we intended to do and then looking for feedback. I tried that occasionally, but generally even when I intended for my posts to be informational I mostly ended up getting drawn into arguments where I was forced to defend my position. Which you might think was useful, but usually that was not the case, considering it was most often against people with a particular axe to grind or who had a very set agenda regarding the kind of game they wanted to see...which is fine for them to have, but unhelpful when it has no relation to the game I'm actually making. Fans might pretend a project can be everything to all people, but designers do not have that luxury.

 

Insofar as "acknowledging mistakes" goes, there are always mistakes in every project -- things we think could be done better, or were just flat-out bad ideas, and we know why they happened the way they did far better than anyone. We had our own ideas about them even before the game was shipped. The forum is a great place for getting feedback (on mistakes as well as the things we did right -- we don't only look for the former), but we look for that kind of feedback from multiple places. The discussion regarding what we're going to do about them is going to be an internal one, however, and always has. Eventually that will get communicated out to the fans as things get decided, and maybe some of that will occur here? I'm not sure. Mostly these forums exist for the fans to talk to each other.

 

As to whether the forum could also be used for the Community team to communicate with the fans more -- by all means, let them know what you think should happen. I imagine that's information the Community Manager would be interested to hear.

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond. 

[Sanunes]

The forum mod policy has changed since DA2 and ME3 which is why its more civil now. I feel the majority of those with criticisms of the game would respond positively to genuine discussions of why certain changes were made, but they have not even tried for the most part except for selected instances like Patrick Weekes post on the lack of healing spells, which for the most part attracted a civil discussion.

 

I wish I could find it, but there was a post that used one BioWare employee's post count against another and that is the kind of thing that really needs to stop.

[SofaJockey]

 

The game is payable for you, but it isn't for very many other people. You get off with judging others and calling them entitled, while, in essence, you are the entitled gamer here, who thinks that the world revolves around your own gaming experience and your own pleasure. The irony abounds. 

 

I think everyone who has bought the game, and if on PC is running it on systems above required standards,

is entitled to have a playable game.

 

I feel for some of those, for example on the Xbox 360 thread, who have had issues in the past.

 

However, if the game runs perfectly well for most people, then those experiencing severe issues

should seek technical assistance on the technical forum.

 

If such technical assistance is inadequate, then it is that which requires criticism.

 

I saw someone raving on this forum that Patch 3 has not fixed his corrupted saves (!).

 

If BioWare is focusing on 'new content' in Patch 5, then the patching of significant game affecting issues is largely done. That ship has sailed.

Because based on their data, the game is or should be, working as intended if configured correctly and on appropriate hardware.

 

If some players are finding the game unplayable now, then complaining about the matter on the forum will not address their concern.

Such concerns can only be addressed by technical enquiry.

[spacefiddle]

Perhaps what you really want is to be a Community Manager yourself?

 

Sure, I'll do it.  

 

I would be available to work remotely immediately; I can forward my resume and references to whomever needed.  A longer-term or more local engagement would require me having some time to give notice and wrap up my current projects, but might still be doable.  I'm open to exploring options for flexibility.

 

I could see it being frustrating if you perceived the role of the forums as a way to "get a response" from the dev team about anything, whether it be a complaint or an attempt to engage the team in some kind of discussion about our future plans. That's really never been its role, but it seems you think it should be-- or at least be more active it engaging the folks who choose (for whatever reason) to hang around here? Fair enough. Personally, I'd see any kind of organized effort to engage in that discussion as too much effort for far too little gain, with most of the time likely to be spent correcting misunderstandings or policing...but that's not for me to decide. My only decision has been that I don't spend my free time doing it any longer.

 

I can see you're getting somewhat understandably frustrated as well, as this response borders on the harsh in tone.  You probably didn't mean it that way, but it seems somewhat accusatory, and seems like you're almost belittling customers for wanting information on the product that they purchased, and that they've come to the only avenue available to get it in.

 

Mostly I think it's a miscommunication of word choice.  Many players seem to use "Dev" as a generic term for a company employee.  That's understandable, as there is direct interaction with developers occasionally here, and other places - and bear in mind that younger gamers especially, even college students, may not have much experience with corporate structures.  We only see "Bioware" tags on posters - if they don't include detailed info in their sig, a reader can't tell what position they're in, exactly.  So I wouldn't take the demand for "Dev interaction" too personally - they're mistaking the method for the goal.  The goal is communication.  It doesn't need to be - shouldn't be expected of - the actual content creators.

 

Of course, given the issues with the game and the level of frustration that seems to be rising in loyal customers, it would be great if some devs chose to do so anyway, even if only to express their appreciation for everyone hanging in there while things get sorted.  After all, most posters here are customers who want to remain customers, and they do so out of love for the content you've created.

 

What most folks are asking for is communication, so the real issue would probably be clearer if we assumed when a poster says "Dev" they do not literally mean a software engineer or content creator, but just someone with information to share.

 

As for where that idea comes from, probably this:

 

 

Feedback & Suggestions

Want to get your thoughts directly to the BioWare Community Team? Put it down on paper here.

 

 

 

 

 As the forum is labeled, it seems like that's the place you post things if you want the Community Team to read them.  (Not necessarily just a manager.)  I think it's hard to argue against the idea that if people spend weeks or months doing just that, but never get any sort of response, it will make them question - what's been heard?  What's been read and considered?  What's off the table, and what's most likely to see the light of day?  Ignored means "not responded to or acknowledged."  It's hard to blame people for feeling ignored, when they aren't responded to or acknowledged, right?  So instead of us wrangling further on details and getting everyone frustrated and sidetracked, what's the best way forward that will bring communication back to customers?

 

With no communication, I'm not sure what you envision customers would be thinking.  Especially for those with game-breaking or progression-blocking bugs; especially those who purchased the game on the strength of its PC-centric marketing, and found, for example, a control scheme optimized for consoles with few of the control features that have been standard on PC games both past and present.  To start arguing over exactly what defines "PC controls" is to get lost in the semantic weeds, without addressing the clear and real point that these customers have.

[Kantr]

And those people who are still reporting CTD errors just by booting the game up... they are clearly hysterical, whining liars then? You don't think that's slightly... impossible for you to say?

 EA technical support is supposed to be the one to fix their problems. Not bioware (not at first anyway)

[berelinde]

 EA technical support is supposed to be the one to fix their problems. Not bioware (not at first anyway)

Have you ever tried to contact EA technical support to resolve a problem? It's an exercise in futility. Seriously, DA4 will be out before you get anywhere.

[wolfhowwl]

And those people who are still reporting CTD errors just by booting the game up... they are clearly hysterical, whining liars then? You don't think that's slightly... impossible for you to say?

 

PC gaming?

 

They knew the job was dangerous when they took it.

[spacefiddle]

Have you ever tried to contact EA technical support to resolve a problem? It's an exercise in futility. Seriously, DA4 will be out before you get anywhere.

 

Yeah I've been using the "Tech Support" forums from the beginning.  They are largely useless.  What little info on fixes was had, came from other customers.  If you look at the "EA Answers" site it goes to - you will realize that's the intent.  Customer peer support.  Says it right in the banner at the top.  They intend community members to help each other out there; it is not a place where an EA person will respond to you personally.  You're on your own.

[DaemionMoadrin]

A place where is impossible developing a discussion.

 

Basicaly since DA2 BSN became the place where people gather to destroy bioware credibility in any way the can conceive.

 

If I wanted to destroy BioWare's credibility, then I'd do it anywhere but on BSN. This is a place of containment, this is where threads get ignored, closed and misinterpreted. Going against BioWare on their own turf would be monumentally stupid.

 

They will probably focus more on addressing fan feedback when they are starting to develop the next game. 

 

Why would they do that? They seem to do well without it. I doubt they want to distort their artistic vision with fan feedback.

 

 EA technical support is supposed to be the one to fix their problems. Not bioware (not at first anyway)

 

Yeah... emphasis on "supposed". You can report bugs there all day, nothing is going to happen. If you're lucky another gamer/customer will answer and perhaps lead you to an solution. Official help or feedback? Eh... probably not going to happen.

[Kantr]

Yeah... emphasis on "supposed". You can report bugs there all day, nothing is going to happen. If you're lucky another gamer/customer will answer and perhaps lead you to an solution. Official help or feedback? Eh... probably not going to happen.

So I guess the same as here then.

[rapscallioness]

I thought some of FastJimmy's ideas sounded nice. It basically just sounded kind of fun.  An organized Q&A, that idea has been floated before, I think it's a good idea. A fun idea. Alocked thread to make announcements. Like the issue of DA semi open world template being used in ME. It was something the BSN had been wondering about and discussing for a long while. It woulda been nice if Aaryn made a response here, in a closed thread--sure, instead of NeoGaf.

 

I will say that although Priestly was rough around the edges, he was here constantly--which may be why he got to be so rough around the edges. lol!

 

Yes, I would like the devs to participate at bit more in the post launch time. Especially because prior to launch interaction is muted because of spoilers and all that. Post launch we finally get to really discuss some things.

 

As far as BSN being toxic and the fans being so awful and that's why the devs don't come by...No. Don't persecute yourselves. No need for self-flagellation. Yes, there are trolls that--as one poster put--drowns out everything else with their BS. They're either on a crusade or getting paid. And some ppl are just azzholes. Perhaps if the trolls and jerks were handled more by the managers, other ppl that are turned off by those types of conversations would feel more comfortable about interacting. And you would have more sane conversations.

 

Then ofc you have the fact that there are so many ppl from such different backgrounds and different cultures, and sometimes we clash. Something as simple as the way you say things. It may be acceptable in one culture, but seen as very rude to someone else from a different background.

 

It just feels more like a community when the devs are a part of it. They are part of the community. The good, the bad and the ugly. They, too, can be good, bad and ugly.  When they participate, though, I don;t see it as "Bioware Representative!". I see it as just another person of the community adding their two cents.

 

So when David posts, yes, he is lead writer, but I would never want to ball and chain him--or any of them--with some "Bioware Rep #102" label. Blank set speech Activate! No, thank you. I would want them to feel free enough, and safe enough to speak their minds--tactfully of course--without fear of being suddenly the mouthpiece of the Corporation. The Man! lol!

 

Mind you, that means devs may get called out on their BS, if necessary. Just as individual posters get called out on their BS. That's part of the community, too.

 

But you got people up in this very thread talking about trying to get someone fired because they didn't kiss their azz. I have no intention of humbling myself. If there is something in the game that does not sit well with me, I will speak to it. Whether I have any knowledge of game dev, or not. However, at the same time, I do not expect, nor do I want, the devs to feel that they must humble themselves.

 

The devs are fairly active pre launch--for whatever reason. It would be nice if they were a bit more active post launch. They are not obligated, of course. I'm not sure I'd even want to hear from them if it was just cuz they were obligated. Bleh. If the devs don't wanna talk, fine, we won't talk. But it does feel weird when they go mia. It's like the morning after to find your attentive lover from the night before has already left. It does not feel right, whether or not they meant anything negative by it.

 

hmm, I had a point somewhere. I'm tired. Okay, tl:dr: Technical issues? Yes, I think they've shown that they are listening because they seem to be furiously trying to patch things. Story stuff? Or things that cannot be patched? I can't recall having heard them chime in. And maybe they just don;t feel like it. Their choice. That's cool.

 

The community managers however need to step up their game. They've been dodgy for awhile. Follower Fridays. Dev Diaries. Announcing character stuff at some sideshow event.

 

I'd like to see the writers chime in on the lore subforum, though. That's what I love most about the DA series. The lore is so rich and interesting. Aw, man....love it so much.

 

And I love you BSN. There's still alot of good people here. Alot of good posts with good ideas, interesting insights, and sometimes literally laugh out loud stuff.

 

oh, lud, even my tldr portion was tldr. i'm gonna go grab me some dwarven ale.....

[DanteYoda]

What a ridiculous thing to say, that's not rude at all.

 

I'm trying to be helpful, if someone can't play the game then that's something that needs to be looked into

and I'm exploring some of those options.

 

The poster said some people could not play since November.

 

Sometimes 'some' includes themselves, which is why I was qualifying the situation.

 

If I had a game I could not play I would explore why not.

 

I was experiencing the store not opening glitch on XB1 back in November.

I wasn't going to abandon MP, so EA Answers did (eventually) give me a solution.

 

Clearly people on all platforms play successfully so either:

• There is an issue with the disc
• There is an issue with the configuration of their system
• They do not meet the minimum specs (if on PC)
• There is some other reason.

To say a game has been unplayable since November is a nonsensical situation and there must be

a resolution for it that the poster, or others they know experiencing the situation are missing.

Your "helpful" and mine are far far different things

 

And yes you were condescending to the person.

 

You could either follow the twitter account, check the BioWare blog, or simply please see Conal Pierse's dedicated thread about updates in the Announcement section. Not only is it updated as soon as the information is availible, he also addresses individual questions.

 

http://forum.bioware...-master-thread/

 

I'm serious guys, I don't know what to tell you or inform about anymore. The info is all out there. The customer service, trouble shooting, patch updates is going live on multiple channels as soon as it is availible.

 

If you want to be kept in the loop with the developement of a possible future game or content DLC via forum, that is never ever going to happen; and it is definitely not part of any obligation towards customers.

I have no Twitter, (i'm not even sure how it works honestly) Can you link it?

 

The Blog is on the Dragon Age site? and the link you gave has not been updated for a while..

 

I've crashed like once...and it happened because I alt-tabbed 300 times to read posts on BSN

I had heaps of crashes, stutter, and DXHung when i first installed this game, the later Nvidia drivers hate this game (at least for me on my GTX 770), i rolled back my drivers to 344.75 and i've only had one crash since, that said the stutter in game is shockingly bad for me, that has never been fixed..

 

The FPS "fix" only made it worse for me and made the lip syncing go out..

 

So i understand how some still would not be able to play..

 

It is a little bizarre how people are suggesting that they are entitled to interact with game devs. That is definitely not something you are entitled to as a customer. 
 

I am not sure why anyone thinks that. When you go to a movie or buy a DVD, do you get to give your feedback directly to Spielberg? Of course not. 

 

If you don't like a song on the radio, do you get to tell that artist what you think of their music? No, of course not.

 

You are delusional if you think you are entitled to communicate with devs. It is a luxury or an opportunity, but it is not something customers are ever entitled to. By all means, ask and request for more dev interaction, but don't demand it or expect it. Please don't be delusional. 

 

Some people seem to have high opinions of Developers, like they are gods among men, i'm sorry to say they are just humans like the rest of us, not better or worse, ego's aside maybe some face time with customers would actually help their games...

 

God forbid we'd want a disconnect between developer and customer right?

 

Please stop putting devs on pedestals, they are the same as us, hard working and not infallible..

[SomberXIII]

Very very really sorry for the people whose their game is "unplayable". Not my concerns. Mine works good. There had not been a single crash except the MP.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Pretty sure they proved to be listening to feedback today. Many of the recurring complaints on the forums are announced to be fixed in the upcoming beta/patch. To me, a good patch is worth a thousand forum posts by any dev.

 

@rapscalioness: again, like with Fast Jimmy's ideas I think what gets in the way of that is basic human nature. Sure, on paper getting together with devs on the forums and having discussions all the time sounds awesome, but this is done very rarely for the very simple reason that it has a big chance of backfiring. it only takes a select number of trolls or entitled whiners to make such an effort pretty unbearable for the dev, not to mention absolutely everything they say could easily be held up to lots of scrutiny.

 

The devs might also just plain not be interested in such a venture. That's their prerogative, they are in no way required to directly answer to fans. I know not too long ago J.E. Sawyer spoke of Fallout New Vegas post-release at some length, but it was on his formspring with a set amount of questions, not a free-for-all on a big fansite. I mean, even in the media industry at large such a thing is pretty rare. I love A Song of Ice and Fire to death, but GRRM only ever posts on his own personnal blog and apparently avoids forums like the plague, only ever talking to fans at conventions. Is that a bad thing? No, because art is not a democracy.

 

The forums are a place where feedback can be collected and perused, which obviously they are doing given the upcoming patch. More than that would be nice, I concur, but I don't expect Bioware to do it, especially after DA2 and ME3 have soured the opinions of many towards them. It's very probable that they either aren't interested, or figure the potential pitfals outweight the benefits of such an active and direct communication.

 

Not everyone can remember that, when they're talking to devs, they're talking to human beings, not to a dispenser that craps out the game you want if you yell enough at it.