They have tens of thousands of customers. The developers can't reasonably be expected to address the individual criticisms of all of them. There aren't enough of them to even do that. It would be a full-time job for them to do so.
Seems odd... the silence on the forums, almost as if by design. I recall the reception of DA2 and dev messages were constant (except for ML who seemed to go into a temporary exhile). Perhaps with the mostly positive reaction to DAI, they feel no need to come to its defense when those threads bitching about this or that arise is why we're seeing next to no dev input.
The reason that people behave that way is that it's like seeing Bigfoot to see someone with "Bioware" above their screen name around here. People feel like hey need to get their potshots in before they disappear under the waves, never to resurface again.
Again - it's all about consistency and delivery. Scheduling time. Structuring discussions. Having dialogues. That only happens when someone is doing coordination, not when a dev randomly has an itch to hop on the forum and address a random question in a thread where everyone then begins dogpiling insanely. That's how craziness and cruelty happen. If you treat people like adults and not deign to mingle with the commoners on a whim without any structure or focus, then yeah - people are going to knee-jerk react and cause problems.
That's a problem of organization, not of the BSN in general. The entire forum is like a kid that's been locked in a closet for too long.
The problem, though, is that there was a dialogue in the past. And then the dogpiling started to happen. A substantial amount of it was over ME2. More of it was over DA2. Targeted at different developers, of course, but it was there. That's what led to the wholesale retreat from the BSN.
People didn't just want to air grievances, they demanded a justification. And it's from that demand that the entire conflict sprung.
I'm not saying fans aren't culpable in this. They are.The problem, though, is that there was a dialogue in the past. And then the dogpiling started to happen. A substantial amount of it was over ME2. More of it was over DA2. Targeted at different developers, of course, but it was there. That's what led to the wholesale retreat from the BSN.
People didn't just want to air grievances, they demanded a justification. And it's from that demand that the entire conflict sprung.
That's how craziness and cruelty happen.
This is a disagreement we have that's going well beyond the scope of the thread. I believe craziness and cruelty is the default state of being for a large portion of the internet (and this has played out in unfortunate ways in especially the gaming realm the past year or so) and that giving attention to assholes doesn't quiet them down, but only encourages them to be assholes more often.
I also believe that there are a substantial amount of insightful, critical threads and posts on this board that BioWare can use as well-articulated feedback that don't come with a demand to PAY ATTENTION AND RESPOND attached to it.
They aren't responding to feedback because they are busy listening to, analyzing and processing feedback and subsequently releasing those patches you're getting monthly right now.
Please try again later.
We are getting monthly patches?
This is a disagreement we have that's going well beyond the scope of the thread. I believe craziness and cruelty is the default state of being for a large portion of the internet (and this has played out in unfortunate ways in especially the gaming realm the past year or so) and that giving attention to assholes doesn't quiet them down, but only encourages them to be assholes more often.
I also believe that there are a substantial amount of insightful, critical threads and posts on this board that BioWare can use as well-articulated feedback that doesn't come with a demand to PAY ATTENTION AND RESPOND attached to it.
The real fans are on Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter anyways.
Outside the BSN you hear things like "Huge success!" and "Game of the Year!", but in the BSN where you have people who have played the game extensively, the reaction is different. There is a lot of criticism aimed at the game, that doesn't feel like it's being heard.
While I would absolutely love to discuss some of DAI's decisions and what was the motivation for them, I do not see why it should be considered expected behavior from them to participate in forum discussion? To give an example, do you see JK Rowling explaining every decision at the official Harry Potter forums? Did the Lost producers constantly go and guide people over their production process at the Lost forums?
Besides, as was already pointed out, what is usually asked when people wanting Bioware to answer their criticism seem to mostly want justification for those decisions, not discussion. Even the examples given in this thread feel more like passive-aggressive demands of Bioware defend their dumb decisions. What exactly should they be saying? "Sorry you didn't like it"? What else could they say? Especially after the level of ridiculousness these forums went to during DA2 and ME3?
From what I have read from interviews, the community managers do follow these threads and collect some discussions to pass forward to the developers. Thus, for me, if one wants to give feedback to Bioware and feel like it might be heard, it would be to try to explain why they liked or didn't like someone and participate in discussions with others about it instead of making a grand statement and waiting for Bioware to answer it.
I wouldn't bring up subjects here under the assumption that a developer has to chime in or even will. Being a forum, I expect that a thread, if it will include ideas worth discussing, should be as open as possible with the mindset of "maybe they will, maybe they won't".
I know they read things and take them into consideration without necessarily interacting with us because years ago I wrote a damn good post on my thoughts regarding something with one of the games, I wondered aloud(thru another post) if anyone was actually gonna see the post or if it'd get skipped/missed, and I received a PM from a notable Bioware developer letting me know they got the whole thing loud and clear.
That is why any time I lay out ideas, suggestions, or criticism, I try to do it in a way that is constructive and easily understood regardless of whether a developer chooses to respond to it or not.
You sound a lot more favorable to the mob here than I would be. It's one thing when you've actually done something wrong, but what you're describing here is something else.The Internet is any different than real life. If people were standing outside a building asking for answers, seeing others show up asking the same or similar things, all being ignored, how long do you think it would take before some start banging on the windows or threatening to throw rocks?
People don't like being ignored or made to feel unimportant. And the first person who stuck their head out of that building would certainly to get some serious hate and vitriol. But if the mob was made to feel like their concerns were heard, that they could come back at some time and have a pretty solid chance of getting a future question or concern answered and felt like there was a real human on the other side of that glass window, the mob wouldn't last and neither would it's hate.
The Internet is just people. Just like you wouldn't leave someone who called your phone line on hold or left a customer to stand outside in the cold, ignoring an entire forum of thousands of people is bad customer service, full stop.
We will see when the DLC starts coming out what they've taken from the feedback; my guess is the first DLC will be a new large area, maybe Hinterlands sized (at the very least Exalted Plains sized), with some new armor skins and most importantly, an area narrative.
If they take one thing away from the feedback I have been giving on the game it's that we need area narratives.
Hopefully it will be post-campaign exclusively and thus be able to feature a new companion (since you can end the game with JUST VARRIC left as your companion).
Other than basic business sense of "treating customers like human beings and realizing consumer feedback and dialogue exchange is immensely important," no, they don't have any reason.
We don't make up the majority of the customer base though. The majority's feedback seems to be positive so I assume they'll keep on with what they've been doing. I don't think not talking to us on the BSN anymore counts as not treating customers like humans though. 
The Internet is any different than real life. If people were standing outside a building asking for answers, seeing others show up asking the same or similar things, all being ignored, how long do you think it would take before some start banging on the windows or threatening to throw rocks?
People don't like being ignored or made to feel unimportant. And the first person who stuck their head out of that building would certainly to get some serious hate and vitriol. But if the mob was made to feel like their concerns were heard, that they could come back at some time and have a pretty solid chance of getting a future question or concern answered and felt like there was a real human on the other side of that glass window, the mob wouldn't last and neither would it's hate.
The Internet is just people. Just like you wouldn't leave someone who called your phone line on hold or left a customer to stand outside in the cold, ignoring an entire forum of thousands of people is bad customer service, full stop.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that the internet is not different from real life? Please tell me that you're not being serious.
In real life, I'm a university student. I work at a shitty little job to help for my tuition. On weekends I go out and play basketball, maybe go to the pub with some friends
On the internet? I can be whoever. I can be the nerd who visits gaming sites constantly. I can be a movie expert on my blog. I can be a hacker who fights to take down the government. I can be that ****** who tries to ruin a persons life, threatening them with violence, posting their address across all forms of social media, telling them that I am going to kill them.
In real life, there is accountability because people know who I am. On the internet, I can be completely anonymous. Case in point, look at what happened to Jennifer Hepler who used to frequent these boards as a writer for DA.
I get that you want more conversation. Honestly I do. But your insistence that it can be done through the internet, and on these boards with just a liiiiittttle bit more planning and being organized, is idealistic at best, ridiculous at worst. As a political science student (without me actually proving this because internet) and someone who is engaged in Democratic Theory right now, it's not hard to see that people will generally act like idiots. With the proper education, with the right attitude, sure. You can have a good conversation, because people will have developed critical thinking skills. That isn't going to happen anytime soon on the internet, not with this generation, and probably not with the next.
From what I've seen, the best time for developers to start engaging with the public is when there is something that is universally disliked, and they have a number of options in front of them for which direction they can go in and they feel that the audience can actually give them a direction through conversation. Note: this does not occur after a game has been out for only a few months. They're still trying to sell the game at this point, not trying to plan for the next game. They want to get as big of an audience as possible because, hey, they're selling a product.
We saw this happen with DA2. After the game had been out for a while, they came on the boards and talked. Biggest complaint they noted? Repeated use of the same dungeon, feeling of never going anywhere new. What did we get? Legacy and MotA, both of which addressed this. And perhaps your memory has gone foggy FastJimmy, but they also did this when they were making DA:I, whereby Mark Darrah opened up a topic specifically to hear people's ideas for what they would like to see in the new game. One of the biggest requests were race choices.
I get that the people who frequent this board as often as I do (at least once a day) want to see something. They want that conversation, that chance to talk back, feel like they're doing something. And that's fine. But again, it has only been a few months. The DA team has a better track record than most for coming on these boards and communicating with their fan base.
We will see when the DLC starts coming out what they've taken from the feedback; my guess is the first DLC will be a new large area, maybe Hinterlands sized (at the very least Exalted Plains sized), with some new armor skins and most importantly, an area narrative.
If they take one thing away from the feedback I have been giving on the game it's that we need area narratives.
Hopefully it will be post-campaign exclusively and thus be able to feature a new companion (since you can end the game with JUST VARRIC left as your companion).
*prays the DLC's price is reasonable*
The problem, though, is that there was a dialogue in the past. And then the dogpiling started to happen. A substantial amount of it was over ME2. More of it was over DA2. Targeted at different developers, of course, but it was there. That's what led to the wholesale retreat from the BSN.
People didn't just want to air grievances, they demanded a justification. And it's from that demand that the entire conflict sprung.
I think ME3 was the worst. There were death threats, and I think even some hacking. I was so embarrassed to be a member of the fandom, after that.
The real fans are on Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter anyways.
All places a lot of people I know, don't visit.
We will see when the DLC starts coming out what they've taken from the feedback; my guess is the first DLC will be a new large area, maybe Hinterlands sized (at the very least Exalted Plains sized), with some new armor skins and most importantly, an area narrative.
If they take one thing away from the feedback I have been giving on the game it's that we need area narratives.
Hopefully it will be post-campaign exclusively and thus be able to feature a new companion (since you can end the game with JUST VARRIC left as your companion).
The last thing the game needs is another fuc**ng large map. And the entire game needed a proper,well paced, fleshed out, narrative.
*prays the DLC's price is reasonable*
Not if you're in Australia it won't be.... I refuse to pay $30 for any DLC.
Not if you're in Australia it won't be.... I refuse to pay $30 for any DLC.
*prays extra hard for Aussies*
In general, tone it down a little, please. I know you don't mean bad, which is why I'm telling you. Please refrain from using plural form and explaining what "people" should or want to expect, some differing from your opinion.
I realize this is a fan forum, not a hotline or tech support. The fact that BioWare speaks of having "dialogue" is optional and, yes, happens or does not happen at their leisure. Forcing it is how all those awful checklist-like features in DAI come to be, where you can tell they went out of their way and strayed from whatever masterplan, to include a feature fans adamantly asked for.
I don't tell my favourite directors or musicians what to do, I speak up about what I liked or did not like about their previous work, and if they choose to recognize a general opinion, they may adjust the following one accordingly. Or not.
I never heard the Wachowskis say "To save everyone money from buying our 'product', our next sci-fi movie is gonna suck. It will in fact NOT be the greatest epic of all time, since that would be misleading marketing claims".
Maybe a band tells an interviewer the next record is gonna have super deep lyrics and feature a famous guest musician, but you end up hating it for being shallow and the guy's part was neglible or didn't even come to be. You don't demand them to change that, you stop buying their records, cause they no longer do stuff you dig.
Don't forget you're not buying spare parts for your car; or ordered a coffee table - we're induldging in one of the vainest forms of entertainment here. I don't want entertainment tailored to my needs and preferences, I'm looking for artists whose vision coincides with my preferences. It would absolutely lose appeal if someone looked at my shopping list and goes "yup, coming right up"
Like Houdini said, noone cares about the secret, we all just love the trick.
-Peace, love and pie
P.S.: Seriously, it's been 3 months. The multiplayer devs are also quite chatty, by the way.
I saw a dev drop into a thread yesterday just to comment on a discussion, just their opinion of something minor, not a 'company announcement'.
Not long later their comment is dog-piled with a poster going off-topic to: 'tell os more about/when's the next DLC?'.
A little later the same poster is whining elsewhere that Biower has not responded to his question along the lines of Biower sucks, DAI sucks, everything sucks.
I'm not sure how many different ways devs can say:
'thanks we're working on that...'
Before the demands for moar information turns into just so much noise.
I think ME3 was the worst. There were death threats, and I think even some hacking. I was so embarrassed to be a member of the fandom, after that.
I've seen posts this month (briefly before the mods deleted them) wishing that devs be taken hostage/tortured/killed, and why?
Because an exploit was patched.
Such posters should have no place on these forums or anywhere near civilised society.
The real fans are on Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter anyways.
I have none thank god.
I'm not talking about devs.In general, tone it down a little, please. I know you don't mean bad, which is why I'm telling you. Please refrain from using plural form and explaining what "people" should or want to expect, some differing from your opinion.
I realize this is a fan forum, not a hotline or tech support. The fact that BioWare speaks of having "dialogue" is optional and, yes, happens or does not happen at their leisure. Forcing it is how all those awful checklist-like features in DAI come to be, where you can tell they went out of their way and strayed from whatever masterplan, to include a feature fans adamantly asked for.
I don't tell my favourite directors or musicians what to do, I speak up about what I liked or did not like about their previous work, and if they choose to recognize a general opinion, they may adjust the following one accordingly. Or not.
I never heard the Wachowskis say "To save everyone money from buying our 'product', our next sci-fi movie is gonna suck. It will in fact NOT be the greatest epic of all time, since that would be misleading marketing claims".
Maybe a band tells an interviewer the next record is gonna have super deep lyrics and feature a famous guest musician, but you end up hating it for being shallow and the guy's part was neglible or didn't even come to be. You don't demand them to change that, you stop buying their records, cause they no longer do stuff you dig.
Don't forget you're not buying spare parts for your car; or ordered a coffee table - we're induldging in one of the vainest forms of entertainment here. I don't want entertainment tailored to my needs and preferences, I'm looking for artists whose vision coincides with my preferences. It would absolutely lose appeal if someone looked at my shopping list and goes "yup, coming right up"
Like Houdini said, noone cares about the secret, we all just love the trick.
-Peace, love and pie
P.S.: Seriously, it's been 3 months. The multiplayer devs are also quite chatty, by the way.
Providing answers regarding game feedback is not the job of a community manager.
By the way, the official community manager is David Hulegaard, with Conal Pierce answering all the questions that CAN be answered, in the patches-thread. Though Bioware never really had CMs solely for online. Those, in the function of moderators, as both Chris Priestly's and Jessica Merizan's presence here were mostly, would be the "BioWareMod##"s. Chris got a better offer from CDProjektRED, Jess quit because of Crabcat taking off rather successfully.
I'm just around for multiplayer input and drop in here every now and then, and I know this.
You are upset, and you are very free to be so. But telling other people what to be outraged by and others what their job is, is making you come across unnecessarily hostile. Admittedly: I just hate it when people do that.
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