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[Precursor Meta]

They are listening. But patches/fixes take time and cost money to make and in most cases the developer has to get permission from the publisher to do said patches/fixes.

And what's BSN?

[SofaJockey]

Providing answers regarding game feedback is not the job of a community manager...

 

Conal does some pretty fine updates.

He spells out what he can say, which isn't always very much, but they are sincere posts and I feel as a result that there is 'stuff' going on.

 

Blair and others from the DAMP team pop in occasionally, 

I've felt them to be pretty helpful.

 

Allan is like the 'shock troops' and wades in sometimes when things get out of hand
but I'm sure he's tasked with other stuff at the moment.

 

Other devs do lurk (for the comedy or despair of the BSN),

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of a few alts...

[SofaJockey]

And what's BSN?

 

The 'BioWare Social Network Forum' - now the BioWare Forum.

 

tBF or BF never stuck.

BSN was too ingrained...

 

EDIT - brain glitch - I meant Network of course...

[Equalitas]

They are reading, but they dont want to put fuel to the fire. And just see the natural response from us discussing it right now. Just a theory. And maybe many of them have been moved to tech support lol

[LPPrince]

The 'BioWare Social Forum' - now the BioWare Forum.

 

tBF or BF never stuck.

BSN was too ingrained...

 

BSN stood for Bioware Social Network.

[Mathias]

http://www.reddit.co...ge_inquisition/

 

Check out the top comment. It's clear that a lot of people are having issues with some of the design choices of the game, and it's holding them back from completely loving it. This is why I'm hoping Bioware will at some point acknowledge our criticism with the game, so that I can hope they'll do a more healthy palace of story and side content in the next game.

[CronoDragoon]

http://www.reddit.co...ge_inquisition/

 

Check out the top comment. It's clear that a lot of people are having issues with some of the design choices of the game, and it's holding them back from completely loving it. This is why I'm hoping Bioware will at some point acknowledge our criticism with the game, so that I can hope they'll do a more healthy palace of story and side content in the next game.

 

There's still no logical connection between BioWare specifically acknowledging complaints and BioWare making changes in the next game. Such an assumption dismisses the possibility of BioWare quietly gathering feedback and implementing it in the next game, and such a dismissal is a huge mistake considering BioWare's history. Devs don't have the time to properly layout why this and that design decision was made, and a response from a Community Manager wouldn't be sufficient anyway. Besides, an acknowledgment of criticism would be taken as a promise to implement it in the next game, which is an asinine assumption given that BioWare games aren't crowd-sourced and devs have their own ideas.

 

In general, it's worth keeping in mind that what we are talking about here is not customer service but different priorities on design decisions. What you are asking for is not the equivalent of, as FastJimmy tried to argue earlier, BestBuy or Amazon engaging in discussion about their services. The complaints that are most similar to that, such as bugginess or clumsy PC controls, have already been acknowledged by BioWare. Things that are much more subjective, such as zone design, would require an incredible amount of self-importance on the part of a player to expect BioWare to acknowledge their personal dislike and promise something will be done about it. It would not only marginalize people who LIKE that design decision, but it also pidgeon-holes BioWare into a promise that might not even FIT the next game they make.

 

This is coming from someone who agrees with you about the wealth of story-focused side content in the next game. The difference is I hold no notion of entitlement to BioWare responding to my criticism. Instead I will calmly and rationally explain my issues, and BioWare can decide internally if it fits what they want to do in the next game.

 

(I don't know how Reddit works, but there's a comment lower in that thread with far more points to its name that claims it loves virtually everything in the game aside from tactics. What goes into deciding the "top" comment if not the points?)

[ardarn]

I wouldn't blame them if they didn't, although I doubt that's the case.

They do communicate somewhat, at least through twitter. But honestly, I joined BSN between DA:O and DA2, was here for the epic poopstorm that was ME3's ending, and I'm not surprised they don't talk as much. There is a subsection of forumites who will fixate on one tiny detail and turn it into a 'you're basically Hitler' sort of accusations.

Do they listen? The writers do at least. Krem is a shining example of such. Are they necessarily going to communicate casually? At least on the DA side, I kind of feel like we lost that privilege after the Anders mess of DA2.

Now this is the most reasonable answer for the question. I completely forgot about Anders incident.

Also ChronoDragoon is pretty detailed. We can hope for the next title will have stronger, tighter narrative then the game we got. Or maybe many many many story DLCs...hehehe I would pay for it. If they would fill the void in this world:)

On a serious note though, once in a while an official comment or post would help to ease the wait. To know they listen. Most of the people here get frustrated and then angry for the complete utter lack of feedback. I kinda understand their Side too.

Maybe once a week a short update in news and announcement. That would show at least they ...you know....exist.

[Mathias]

 

This is coming from someone who agrees with you about the wealth of story-focused side content in the next game. The difference is I hold no notion of entitlement to BioWare responding to my criticism. Instead I will calmly and rationally explain my issues, and BioWare can decide internally if it fits what they want to do in the next game.

 

 

If you believe my attitude in this thread has been demanding towards Bioware employees communicating with us, kindly point out where. Otherwise please don't accuse me of acting entitled. Bioware has a bit of a history communicating with players on the forums, as they did a lot with DA2 and ME3, and I said it' d be nice if they did here too. I'm not being unreasonable at all here, and I understand they don't have to say jack to us.

[AlanC9]

I'm still not clear what the point of more hand-holding from Bio would be. The game is what it is, and the next one will be whatever it will be. Either Bio will design a game more to your liking, or they won't; whatever they say or don't say here won't change that.

[CronoDragoon]

If you believe my attitude in this thread has been demanding towards Bioware employees communicating with us, kindly point out where. Otherwise please don't accuse me of acting entitled. Bioware has a bit of a history communicating with players on the forums, as they did a lot with DA2 and ME3, and I said it' d be nice if they did here too. I'm not being unreasonable at all here, and I understand they don't have to say jack to us.

 

In my head when I wrote the entitlement part I wasn't thinking of you, but it's clear reading that paragraph now why you'd think that. So sorry: that wasn't aimed specifically at you. It was more aimed at...well, just look at the Feedback section.

 

In any case, I'm puzzled that you pointed to ME3 in terms of BioWare interacting with the fanbase. Are we talking about developers here or Community Managers? FastJimmy seems to center on the latter, whereas the OP seems to want the former. And the former was never the case with ME3.

 

If all you want is a Community Manager to be more involved, then I don't see a reason to be against that, but in my view it'd only be lip service to what they are already doing (in terms of collecting feedback) and in any case Conal has already been posting in the more concentrated critical threads.

[Mathias]

In my head when I wrote the entitlement part I wasn't thinking of you, but it's clear reading that paragraph now why you'd think that. So sorry: that wasn't aimed specifically at you. It was more aimed at...well, just look at the Feedback section.

 

 

 

That's fine. To me personally, I don't like it when fans act entitled (unless they have a good reason), and it's quite an accusation to me when someone calls me that. No biggie, I just wanted to make my position on this whole thing clear. It's not something I'm demanding, but it'd definitely be appreciated, especially since they have in the past, which is why I'm even bringing it up in the first place. If this were a company that had no history of doing this, I wouldn't even bring it up.

 

 

In any case, I'm puzzled that you pointed to ME3 in terms of BioWare interacting with the fanbase. Are we talking about developers here or Community Managers? FastJimmy seems to center on the latter, whereas the OP seems to want the former. And the former was never the case with ME3.

 

I'm not gonna ignore that there was bad PR doing the ME3 debacle. Aside from a PR approved response by Casey Hudson, he pretty much buried his head in the sand and his twitter went silent for months. Chris Priestly came off pretty anti-consumer in the way he handled himself. Mac Walters acted very delusional and ignorant in his reactions and comments on the ending backlash. He was the worst one imo btw. Michael Gamble basically acted the same as Mac (although not as bad), and then he tried to talking to us on the forums, but then left very quickly because someone made a sarcastic post just for laughs in the thread. So in my book he gets no credit for that one, and should learn to develop thicker skin if he thought everyone was gonna kiss up to him to whole time. 

Aside from them though, we did have some staff members who communicated with us respectfully on the forums. Even people from the Dragon Age team talked to us (kudos to you Allan). And all that was definitely appreciated. So I give a lot of brownie points to those who made an effort to talk to us.

[David Gaider]

I'm uncertain what's being asked for, here.

 

There was a few of us who took part in the forum on our own time -- myself, Allan, John Epler, and maybe a handful of others. If we've stopped doing so, it's for our own individual reasons. Nobody told us to post, and nobody told us to stop.

 

Even when we did post, it was rarely as a means of explaining what we intended to do and then looking for feedback. I tried that occasionally, but generally even when I intended for my posts to be informational I mostly ended up getting drawn into arguments where I was forced to defend my position. Which you might think was useful, but usually that was not the case, considering it was most often against people with a particular axe to grind or who had a very set agenda regarding the kind of game they wanted to see...which is fine for them to have, but unhelpful when it has no relation to the game I'm actually making. Fans might pretend a project can be everything to all people, but designers do not have that luxury.

 

Insofar as "acknowledging mistakes" goes, there are always mistakes in every project -- things we think could be done better, or were just flat-out bad ideas, and we know why they happened the way they did far better than anyone. We had our own ideas about them even before the game was shipped. The forum is a great place for getting feedback (on mistakes as well as the things we did right -- we don't only look for the former), but we look for that kind of feedback from multiple places. The discussion regarding what we're going to do about them is going to be an internal one, however, and always has. Eventually that will get communicated out to the fans as things get decided, and maybe some of that will occur here? I'm not sure. Mostly these forums exist for the fans to talk to each other.

 

As to whether the forum could also be used for the Community team to communicate with the fans more -- by all means, let them know what you think should happen. I imagine that's information the Community Manager would be interested to hear.

[LPPrince]

I imagine that's information the Community Manager would be interested to hear.

 

If I may ask, who is the community manager these days? Is it still Mr. Hulegaard? I say this because I always defaulted to Mrs. Merizan but obviously can't anymore. Though Mr. Hulegaard is a top dude.

[Teddie Sage]

Thank you David. I'm thankful you're taking time to come and read us. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Mostly these forums exist for the fans to talk to each other.

But why? Is the Bioware Twitter account mostly for fans to talk to each other? Is the DA Facebook page?

No, these are used as means to convey information and foster a sense of communication between Bioware and the fanbase. I don't understand why the forums would be different. Especially since the format is much more conducive to conversations that take longer than 140 characters.

I know this isn't your call and I appreciate the response, but as I said earlier in this thread - having you or Mark or Allan randomly drop into a thread and do a forum "photo bomb," while appreciated, rarely does more good than harm. A more concerted effort by the Community team to organize, catalogue and schedule things like Dev Q&A's or topics about the game or discussions on the future... those would all help bring some sense of consistency and order. Rather than the crazy rain dance fans think they have to do to get someone from the company to show signs of life.

[David Gaider]

Perhaps what you really want is to be a Community Manager yourself?

 

I could see it being frustrating if you perceived the role of the forums as a way to "get a response" from the dev team about anything, whether it be a complaint or an attempt to engage the team in some kind of discussion about our future plans. That's really never been its role, but it seems you think it should be-- or at least be more active it engaging the folks who choose (for whatever reason) to hang around here? Fair enough. Personally, I'd see any kind of organized effort to engage in that discussion as too much effort for far too little gain, with most of the time likely to be spent correcting misunderstandings or policing...but that's not for me to decide. My only decision has been that I don't spend my free time doing it any longer.

[Raiil]

Now this is the most reasonable answer for the question. I completely forgot about Anders incident.

Also ChronoDragoon is pretty detailed. We can hope for the next title will have stronger, tighter narrative then the game we got. Or maybe many many many story DLCs...hehehe I would pay for it. If they would fill the void in this world:)

On a serious note though, once in a while an official comment or post would help to ease the wait. To know they listen. Most of the people here get frustrated and then angry for the complete utter lack of feedback. I kinda understand their Side too.

Maybe once a week a short update in news and announcement. That would show at least they ...you know....exist.

I would absolutely love that sort of thing... but again, we have to prove we're mature enough to handle what we get. History shows that we, in general, don't always handle it well. I'm painting myself guilty as well because I loathed the ME3 ending and was pretty blunt about my opinion, although I like to think that I made it clear that my beef was with the game (and certain other forumers) and I wasn't interested in Talibaning the staff.

[Fast Jimmy]

Perhaps what you really want is to be a Community Manager yourself?

I'm the kind of person who, when he sees a problem, tries to fix it. The problem is that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of devoted fans who come here every month/week/day scouring for signs of life and feel they get nothing to show for it. That they would be just as likely to be acknowledged if they were on GoodHousekeeping's forums instead of the company they are trying to talk to.

I wouldn't want to be the Community Manager, but I have seen other forums and communities act like just that - communities. People talking and enjoying things, instead of seeming they are on pins and needles. It doesn't need to be that way.

I could see it being frustrating if you perceived the role of the forums as a way to "get a response" from the dev team about anything, whether it be a complaint or an attempt to engage the team in some kind of discussion about our future plans. That's really never been its role, but it seems you think it should be-- or at least be more active it engaging the folks who choose (for whatever reason) to hang around here? Fair enough. Personally, I'd see any kind of organized effort to engage in that discussion as too much effort for far too little gain, with most of the time likely to be spent correcting misunderstandings or policing...but that's not for me to decide. My only decision has been that I don't spend my free time doing it any longer.

Maybe it would be a wasted effort. Maybe it would be a daily task of herding cats. I think with a few frequently updated master threads that could catalogue a lot of the already-answered questions, an attempt to schedule some random Dev time where the Dev or group of devs maybe talk about themselves, talk about their job and answer questions, with a community manager or moderator on hand for these scheduled events to tackle any of the riff raff or even an occasional Bioware-initiated thread about something random, like an update on Ganders or something silly that forum-goers who stalked the Twitter thread would find hilarious... with things like this, it could be a much smoother and interesting place.

I'm not really discussing programming code changes or moving mountains. Just a little effort everyday and some custodian work on making things easy for people to come in and research if they have a question.

[Teddie Sage]

I'm not sure whether we need the community manager to be more active or have a PR whose job would be to facilitate the feedback between both BioWare and the members of the community. Merizan had this job but she left, so who's replacing her now?

[coldflame]

I am also curious to know who the current community manager is? Do we even have a community manager currently? Then there is the question - if the community doesn't even know who the community manager is, is the community manager doing his/her job?

[AngryFrozenWater]

I support some of the critique regarding the game given on this forum. However, I do not support the hostility behind many posts. I believe the BW employees love what they are doing and like to improve their work through feedback. But when they are insulted in those posts chances are they'll quit reading and responding sooner or later. I would.

[Lewie]

I don't blame them being quiet on these forums, the vitriol is too much. I stay away a lot because of it, and they have lives families and problems like the rest of us.

 

We have had a few patches already. Is that not listening? People simply need to be aware of what they can and can't do.

[Bocochoco]

Perhaps what you really want is to be a Community Manager yourself?

I could see it being frustrating if you perceived the role of the forums as a way to "get a response" from the dev team about anything, whether it be a complaint or an attempt to engage the team in some kind of discussion about our future plans. That's really never been its role, but it seems you think it should be-- or at least be more active it engaging the folks who choose (for whatever reason) to hang around here? Fair enough. Personally, I'd see any kind of organized effort to engage in that discussion as too much effort for far too little gain, with most of the time likely to be spent correcting misunderstandings or policing...but that's not for me to decide. My only decision has been that I don't spend my free time doing it any longer.

From what I've seen, myself included is guilty, the lack of response and engagement is what causes the negative attitude on these forums.
Thank you for your vision, but there are many important questions that have been ignored for some time now. One I originally posed myself and has been repeated by others across many gaming forums and comment sections throughout the internet.
When this happens and there is no official response besides "we are not obligated to respond to you" people get upset, say things they regret, and generally turn to the dark side.

Thanks for reading

[Lewie]

From what I've seen, myself included is guilty, the lack of response and engagement is what causes the negative attitude on these forums.
Thank you for your vision, but there are many important questions that have been ignored for some time now. One I originally posed myself and has been repeated by others across many gaming forums and comment sections throughout the internet.
When this happens and there is no official response besides "we are not obligated to respond to you" people get upset, say things they regret, and generally turn to the dark side.

Thanks for reading

They are not obligated to respond to any of us.